Will deus ex 3 have humanoid robots??

[Ghostface]

it would make deus ex more realistic:

http://www.pinktentacle.com/2009/03/video-hrp-4c-fashion-model-robot/

^^ real robot just made recently for fashion modeling.

[K^2]

Whether robots look like humans or not is part of the style. Once you have descent AI, it's a matter of choice. I think, ultimately, people will not feel comfortable with robots that look too much like humans. They'll want robots that look and sound "like robots". How far that goes is another question. Look at original DX. Not a single humanoid there. Why? Because all the robots there can perform their function just as well while looking like something else. The only factor is utility. Of course, DX3 has the whole renaissance thing going, and nothing would ruin the style as much as a security bot from DX or IW. I'm guessing, what would fit the style the best is robots that look somewhat human, but intentionally made to appear obsolete. Almost steam punk, but without the pipework.

[LatwPIAT]

Look at original DX. Not a single humanoid there.

"Some of these people are androids. Look at the way they walk."

[Viktoria]

I could see humanoid robots in DX3 yeah, we have them now so it makes sense if they are seen in the game... though the devs may or may not make reference to them.

[K^2]

"Some of these people are androids. Look at the way they walk."
That's just a poke at Blade Runner, or perhaps even the book it is based on. Note that this is the only mention of the androids in the entire game.

[Viktoria]

^
Probably because robots are now obsolete and cyborgs have since replaced them?

[Blade_hunter]

Cyborgs will replace humans in the case of humans have deficient bodyparts
Robots never were obsolètes, compared to organic creatures, a robot is easier to repair and many new technologies were made that the robots will have advantages of organic creatures, like a self repair.
A robot to be close to an organic creature he needs to be a network of small nanorobots, and those robots are linked to form an essential part of the machine.
Hey, This is like the T1000 from Terminator 2 ....

[Sabretooth]

I can totally imagine humanoid robots in Deus Ex 3, the technology's plausible. They won't be super Terminator agents or anything, but I think humanoid robots could be used in the near future for say, replacing personal assistants, or functioning as automated receptionists.

Also makes sense continuity-wise, by the time Deus Ex sets in, they're deemed too expensive and their use is scrapped.

Still, if at all they're included, I think they will be very minor atmospheric elements and not really anything worth getting all hyped about.

[jamhaw]

.

Also makes sense continuity-wise, by the time Deus Ex sets in, they're deemed too expensive and their use is scrapped.

.

Unlikely. However I seem to recall reading a datacube where they said the military bots were as smart as they were allowed to be. Perhaps there was a robot uprising somewhere? Something like that could scare the rest of the world into suppressing the technology

[a house]

"Some of these people are androids. Look at the way they walk."
The MIBs are psychotic, heh. Something to do with the pharmaceutical augmentation.

[K^2]

^
Probably because robots are now obsolete and cyborgs have since replaced them?
Not quite. Cyborg doesn't replace a robot. Cyborg is still human, so trying to make a slave out of one can result in bad mojo. Psyche of a robot, on the other hand, can be fully controlled, making them into perfect servants. We don't need super-smart robots. Just ones smart enough to complete their tasks.

That said, there is really no point for a robot to look like a human. Exception would be robots used for erm... entertainment and espionage. I see no other point.

[GmanPro]

^^ Maybe not exactly like a human down to the smallest details, but the human body is a fairly versatile shape. So humanoid robots are likely I think for some things. Maybe millitary missions? Obviously a tank would be better for the open battlefield, but what about door to door combat? You'd need something smaller and with legs for mobility.

[Viktoria]

Not quite. Cyborg doesn't replace a robot. Cyborg is still human, so trying to make a slave out of one can result in bad mojo. Psyche of a robot, on the other hand, can be fully controlled, making them into perfect servants. We don't need super-smart robots. Just ones smart enough to complete their tasks.

That said, there is really no point for a robot to look like a human. Exception would be robots used for erm... entertainment and espionage. I see no other point.

Yes, you are quite correct.

[Irate Iguana]

I see no other point.

People feel more at easy talking to something that looks like them. If the robot has to serve the general public and interact with them, for instance in health care or as a greeter, the robot has to resemble a person. A welding robot as a greeter would unnerve most humans.

[Viktoria]

I really wouldn't mind what it looked like, so long as it was interesting/intelligent to talk to. :)

[GmanPro]

I want Bender style robots. :)

http://androidcommunity.com/forums/members/too-hot-to-hoot/albums/n3rdn3ss/322-bender-chilaxin.gif

[Viktoria]

I love Bender, he's one of the coolest robots EVER. :cool: :D

[K^2]

People feel more at easy talking to something that looks like them. If the robot has to serve the general public and interact with them, for instance in health care or as a greeter, the robot has to resemble a person. A welding robot as a greeter would unnerve most humans.
Resemble in general, yes, but it should be immediately apparent in from appearance, movement, and voice that you are dealing with a robot. People would get uneasy around robots that are too human-like.

[Irate Iguana]

Resemble in general, yes, but it should be immediately apparent in from appearance, movement, and voice that you are dealing with a robot. People would get uneasy around robots that are too human-like.

True. However something like Bender would be pretty ideal. It looks like a human, but it doesn't look eerily human. You know you are talking to a robot, but it doesn't unnerve you.

[Viktoria]

Resemble in general, yes, but it should be immediately apparent in from appearance, movement, and voice that you are dealing with a robot. People would get uneasy around robots that are too human-like.

If the technology is so amazing that they really are very human-like, then why would people feel uneasy around them? Humans wouldn't be able to tell the difference, would they? Quite frankly, I feel more uneasy around a pure human who was acting weird/suspicious... a human is more likely to hurt me, I guess.

[K^2]

In order to behave entirely like human, it has to think like human. If it thinks like a human, it doesn't make for a very good servant. Chance of rebellion, etc. A robot should live for its task. It should not have concerns about the meaning of its existence. If it performs its function, it should feel well. It is not how humans think or behave. So you'll have fundamental difference which will appear to layman observer as lack of "soul". And would you feel at ease next to something that looks, walks, and talks like a human, yet seems to be cold, dead, and soulless? No. You'd feel much better if it looks, moves, and talks like a clumsy pile of scrap metal.

[Viktoria]

In order to behave entirely like human, it has to think like human. If it thinks like a human, it doesn't make for a very good servant. Chance of rebellion, etc. A robot should live for its task. It should not have concerns about the meaning of its existence. If it performs its function, it should feel well. It is not how humans think or behave. So you'll have fundamental difference which will appear to layman observer as lack of "soul". And would you feel at ease next to something that looks, walks, and talks like a human, yet seems to be cold, dead, and soulless? No. You'd feel much better if it looks, moves, and talks like a clumsy pile of scrap metal.

Good points there, thanks.
Hear what you say but I wouldn't actually feel uneasy. Let's face it, some humans are pretty cold, dead and soulless. Robots have an excuse... humans do not.
I'd still chat to my 'butler' robot if I had one. I'm sure he'll know the basics of pleasant conversation. Perhaps even talk to me about the current news of the morning over breakfast (he could get a fresh download every day). :)

[K^2]

Yeah, but if you had to chose, would he look entirely human, or more like a robot from iRobot or something similar? Essentially human structure but clearly artificial?

[Viktoria]

Yeah, but if you had to chose, would he look entirely human, or more like a robot from iRobot or something similar? Essentially human structure but clearly artificial?

If I had a choice, I honestly wouldn't care whether he looked entirely human or more robot like. Seriously. But that's just my viewpoint on it.... I don't judge people by how they look, so I guess this attitude naturally follows suit. :)

[Blade_hunter]

I'm sure everyone want to see ED 209 from robocop the military bot from DX looks like ED 209

[GmanPro]

Yeah, but if you had to chose, would he look entirely human, or more like a robot from iRobot or something similar? Essentially human structure but clearly artificial?

I'd want something purposefully robotic looking, like Bender. Less maintenance.

[Viktoria]

I know it sounds rather sad and pathetic, but I actually feel empathy for simple robots like Spirit and Opportunity. Maybe I'm crazy, hehe.

I know that staff at mission control pretty much view them as their 'babies', they have put years of work into these machines and I can totally understand the emotions they feel for them, and they really do hold attachment to these metal objects.
To me, machines are very much a part of us, very connected. We made them and we have high hopes that they achieve. Pretty much like our own kids, in a way. :)

If I'm all alone on this one... so be it. :p

[GmanPro]

^^ I often think of my computer as my precious ... http://fc86.deviantart.com/fs9/i/2006/073/e/a/Smeagol_s_fate_by_Lorna36.gif ... does that count?

[Viktoria]

Hehe, yeah why not. :D
Did you build your PC yourself?

[GmanPro]

Yes, it's my baby :D :nut:

I would never hurt my pc http://fc79.deviantart.com/fs44/f/2009/064/2/a/_madtyper__by_X_wing9.gif

[K^2]

If I had a choice, I honestly wouldn't care whether he looked entirely human or more robot like. Seriously. But that's just my viewpoint on it.... I don't judge people by how they look, so I guess this attitude naturally follows suit. :)
That's fair, and it is within the bounds of my point. I don't think that people who want a robot servant that looks and acts human are people who want such a contraption for utilitarian purposes. It is probably something different that is driving them. In many cases either sadistic or sexual. People who want a servant for purpose of making life easier would probably either not care, or chose a machine-like servant. Very natural-looking androids would probably most replace the market currently dominated by inflatable and battery-operated technology.

[Viktoria]

Yes, it's my baby :D :nut:

I would never hurt my pc http://fc79.deviantart.com/fs44/f/2009/064/2/a/_madtyper__by_X_wing9.gif

LOL.
Well, maybe you definitely wouldn't hurt any machine that might one day save your life? If it helps to answer and discover things that are far beyond your own capabilities and upon which human survival relies upon? ;)

[Viktoria]

That's fair, and it is within the bounds of my point. I don't think that people who want a robot servant that looks and acts human are people who want such a contraption for utilitarian purposes. It is probably something different that is driving them. In many cases either sadistic or sexual. People who want a servant for purpose of making life easier would probably either not care, or chose a machine-like servant. Very natural-looking androids would probably most replace the market currently dominated by inflatable and battery-operated technology.

Mmmm, well... total clunky machine or super-intelligent human-like machine, I'd still respect and appreciate it. Crazy as that sounds... sorry. :o

[GmanPro]

Maybe if such a machine was malfunctioning, I would just turn off the power. And see if I can't reprogram it or at least salvage it for parts. It is only a machine after all, its arms had no idea they were being used to strangle me :D

[Viktoria]

Hehe, that kind of invites debate regarding Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.
We assume they will be programmed not to hurt us... does anyone think these Laws are flawed?

[Irate Iguana]

Hehe, that kind of invites debate regarding Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.
We assume they will be programmed not to hurt us... does anyone think these Laws are flawed?

They have practical shortcomings, but the idea behind them is sounds. Asimov himself has written many tales where he challenges the laws and often modifies them and then rejects or accepts those changes.

[GmanPro]

For those who are unfamiliar:

A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.


I don't like the wording of the first law, because it could allow robots to enslave or imprison humans without ever actually physically harming them.

And of course there is always the possibility of a pattern matching error like Daedelus.

[K^2]

Keep in mind that these laws are written by Asimov. Same guy who wrote iRobot. And, guess what, that's the exact loophole that AI in iRobot uses.

At any rate, the 3 Laws are just bs. That simply isn't how you build an AI.

[GmanPro]

In other words, yes. They are flawed.

[K^2]

Yes, definitely. In concept and statement.

[Ghostface]

Robots would be used as maids, fast food workers, cashiers and could be used as support members of a team like Ghost in the Shell.

[Ghostface]

Fore those who don't know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5jpffnvQDA&feature=related

here's a funny way to confuse a robot lol:D :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I5dfI4SyLg&NR=1

[K^2]

Just for reference, "Everything I tell is a lie," is not a self-referencing paradox. The particular statement happens to be a lie, implying that the speaker may speak truth some times, but promises nothing beyond that.

In order to make self-reference, a person must say something like, "This statement is a lie." However, even simplest of AIs can deal with it rather easily. The statement contradicts itself in a rather direct way. Therefore, statement enters knowledge base as a false statement. The logical or of knowledge base and a false statement is the initial knowledge base. So such statement simply caries no information. Ergo, it is disregarded like any sentence without semantic meaning would.

[GmanPro]

Reminds me of a riddle. A prisoner is told "If you tell a lie we will hang you; if you tell the truth we will shoot you." What can he say to save himself?

[Viktoria]

The standard humanoid/android robot is useful for basic tasks and is not required to think beyond that. An intelligent robot must be able to think independently... like you and I. But in order for it to be as intelligent as us, then it must be a cyborg. That is, half human/half machine... because we need the most powerful tool known to us, ie the human brain.
If this is the case, cyborgs are definitely going to become a reality. That is, humans will continue along the path of transhumanism and eventually replace their physical bodies but will retain their brains.
Agreed or not? :)

[facepalm]

An intelligent robot must be able to think independently... like you and I. But in order for it to be as intelligent as us, then it must be a cyborg.

Fixed: it must be a cyborg operated by a person.

If there is a task that requires both human intellect and the raw power of a hydraulic arm, why not just give the man an exoskeleton? Replacing your whole body with cybernetic counterparts just because your line of work requires you to do some heavy lifting sounds a little overblown.

[Viktoria]

Sure, the military is already using exoskeletons:
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=exoskeleton%20military&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

but it has its limitations, ie. us/our bodies?

[facepalm]

but it has its limitations, ie. us/our bodies?

If the environment's too dangerous for a human to be physically piloting the vehicle, remote controlling it is always an option. High G-forces are always going to turn your braincells into a squishy pulp, regardless of wether your cranium is made of bone or metal.

[Viktoria]

What about if the distance is too far to use remote control?
Do you think remote control will become obsolete, eg. you can control with your brain rather than through a handset?
The exoskeleton is still quite 'clumpy', being on the outside of your body. Do you think eventually it will get smaller, better and thus the system can then be inserted 'inside' your body?

[facepalm]

What about if the distance is too far to use remote control?

The distances would have to be astronomic in scale for lightspeed lag to become an issue, and even so, the Mars rovers seem to be doing their job just fine without real-time human control.


Do you think remote control will become obsolete, eg. you can control with your brain rather than through a handset?

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly going to become practical for surgeons to scoop out your brain and hook it up with a robot.

The exoskeleton is still quite 'clumpy', being on the outside of your body. Do you think eventually it will get smaller, better and thus the system can then be inserted 'inside' your body?

If size is an issue, like for example when you're looking for survivors inside a collapsed building, then remote controlling the vehicle is the only feasible option. Or you can rely on trained chimpanzees, those things are crazy strong. :p

I'm approaching the issue from a practical viewpoint here, not only is extensive body modification like that expensive, it's also irreversible and wholly unnecessary in virtually every case. But hey, if someone's got the money and finds cyborgization appealing, no objections here. However, I don't see people making drastic alterations to their bodies en masse just because it would be of use in their day job.

[Viktoria]

1. Yeah, I guess I was considering space travel and also underwater exploration.
2. Of course not, but what about nanobot technology?
3. Chimps? :eek: That's cruel.... and besides, they're easily distracted by bananas! :D
4. Yes, I agree. I was only asking. Still, the future brings all sorts of possibilities.