Deus Ex 3 - General Chat & Latest Articles Discussion (2006-09) [Archive]

Grox

10-15-2006, 07:25 AM

I appreciate the sentiment on this, really. But it seems like everybody is going about this the WRONG way. (I freely admit that "everyone" includes me, by the way).

First of all, I don't know that posting on this forum is the best way to communicate to Eidos about the development of future products.

Secondly, since Eidos appears to be the only ones who can make the choice we want made, we have to consider their priorities, what they want. They seem to have either decided to:

a) put off a DX3 project for the distant future, because they think their marketing is best served by having the "Eidos" name associated with as many different titles as possible, rather than sequels of the old titles; or
b) definitely decided to never pursue DX3, because they believe it would not be profitable. This could be due, in part, to a conviction that PC games will never be as profitable as console games, or because they think that the title has just played out its marketability.

Shame or disappointment in the quality of DX2, while it may matter very much to some of us posters, probably plays no part in their decision.

Anyway, Eidos has had forever to investigate, reconsider, or share its reasoning, but AFAIK it hasn't. Warren Spector, however, has offered publicly to buy the DX license back and said he wouldn't mind exploring DX further. IDK whether he ever specifically approached Eidos privately, or what his terms would be --- but it seems that the person to address about the feasibility of this ever happening is Warren Spector, not Eidos. It stands to reason that, for the right offer, Eidos WILL eventually sell a license that they are not using and is currently generating no revenue for them.

The petitions, the efforts of the modding community, and the desire to see this product come to fruition, should be communicated to Warren Spector, not Eidos. If the demonstration of enthusiasm convinces him that he should make an official offer when he has not --- or to increase his current offer, if he has one --- then THAT would nudge DX3 closer to reality.

VoRaDoR

10-31-2006, 04:28 PM

Someone talks about PC games are not profitable as console games. True a little bit. Console games for example Xbox 360 priced at £49.99 which is ridicolously over-priced. PS3 will also follow the same path :rasp:

Unfortunately we currently live in a world where money means everthing. Now Deus Ex 1 is excellent game brilliant. I've played Deus Ex 2 as well and it's very nice. I still own both these titles in my room.

I think Eidos is one of the worst game publisher there is in the world. They put Legacy of Kain series on Hold. They finished Warren Spectors projects for good. Alright now, can anyone tell me a very good Eidos Interactive game? Seriously, there is only in my opinion. 3 very good Eidos Interactive Titles.

1. Deus Ex series
2. HITMAN series
3. Legacy of Kain series

I do not follow any other Eidos Title. Just Cause looked pretty good on video but when you play its so simple, graphics are horrible and the game is so repetitive.

No offence to fans but look at Tomb Raider Eidos is still trying to revive the dead. What a waste of effort. The game still sucks like the predecessors. :nut:

Look at my signature there is a message for you there EIDOS...

Grox

11-02-2006, 06:06 AM

I hope you're on mark, Vorador. If you are, that just means that people who want to see DX3 happen just have to talk directly to Warren Spector.

I'm not naive enough to think that he'll instantly drop what he's doing to leap into a DX3 project, but it will make the project closer to reality. And AFAIK, he is not particularly inaccessible.

It wouldn't have to require invading his privacy or bothering him on his private time. Just communicating care of his current company would probably do just fine, as long as it's not such an avalanche that he is suddenly drowning in e-mails. If he got a steady trickle of requests, over a sustained period of time, it might persuade him, help him persuade his marketing people, or whatever the current obstacle to DX3 happens to be.

jjmikhail

12-20-2006, 10:42 AM

not too sure how many know but i have started a script for a third Deus Ex. the introduction is done and quite frankly, i thought i would have the whole thing finished by Christmas but since there are so many things to put in, i've had to write up scripts for later chapters and adjust the story as i go along.

nevertheless, there was a suggestion made by someone on another forum, i did consider it but thought that the majority would be put off by it. it was Deus Ex III with bio-modification.

Grox

12-21-2006, 02:32 PM

Well, that's great to hear. Good luck with that. I hope you can assemble the necessary team to do the work.

You're going to need more than just people with talent and expertise. You're going to need people with the time to dedicate to this. Moreover, if past projects are any indication, some members of your team are going to drop out, move on, or be interrupted by work/school/family, etc. during the project. So even once you think you have your team assembled, remain on the lookout for alternates.

It CAN be done though. Please, keep posting here as things develop.

jjmikhail

12-21-2006, 05:58 PM

sorry, my mistake on the bio mod thing, i meant to say "Deus Ex III without bio modification" but in fact i'm sticking to it.

just clearing that up.

[~DeH~]_LeOn

12-27-2006, 04:00 PM

"Unfortunately we currently live in a world where money means everthing. Now Deus Ex 1 is excellent game brilliant. I've played Deus Ex 2 as well and it's very nice. I still own both these titles in my room."
So since first one was cool, second one was okay, let's make third one which will suck so bad we all will cry ourselves to sleep.

Eidos owns the right to deus ex.

Warren spector would have to BUY the rights from eidos.

I dunno if eidos would sell, or how much they'd ask if they did.

Let's all move on. It's not happening.

JusRegistered2PostThis

12-28-2006, 12:27 PM

"1. Deus Ex series
2. HITMAN series
3. Legacy of Kain series"

Thief series??????????????????? Part 3 was a little weak because of all the changes that were better off the other way. But if you take a game for what it is, it's still a good ending to a great series.

People don't take games for what they are, Invisible War played by itself is a hit game, it's a great game!!!!! but since it was the sequel to an even greater game, and people were expecting it to be even better, its just known as a failure. It still however beats almost every other game easily.

Hitman series blows they pump another one of those things out every week and legacy of kain I wouldnt even consider looking at a screenshot let alone playing. I agree on your tomb raider comment though, their beating on the chest of a dead man, errr woman.

And the reason PC games arent as popular is because high end PC's cost oh so much more than a console game. add that with the fact that people just download the games instead of buying them (much more common for pc games than console games) and they're basically screwed.

In conclusion to an already 8i"|"chy statement, if you seriously haven't ever played thief 1 and 2, or didnt like them, you shouldnt be talking on an eidos forum so get the f|_|c|< out

jjmikhail

01-01-2007, 12:52 PM

hopefully this year i will visit the States and meet with (if possible) Warren Spector and show him what material i have for a third Deus Ex. of course, theres an issue with 'rights', which will have to be looked into, thats a real pain but i am sure something will come up.

primer

01-02-2007, 06:45 AM

:nut:

The 2nd game had errors that you cannot play it, in the first game when you went to the bar the guy saids " what is this stuff water". But he saids in the text "This is a crummy part of town". So WARREN SPECTOR is not very easy on people playing it on a PC, if they made another it will have to be for consoles. And Deus Ex 1 on the PS2 and PC had those text errors and the git did not fix em.:mad:

JoeGreene

01-16-2007, 06:02 PM

WoundedRonin

03-01-2007, 02:26 PM

Grox

03-01-2007, 05:54 PM

That's right . . . if they think the fans will buy it, in sufficient amounts to make money, and their time and budget is not filled with other projects that they think are better bets financially, they'll make the sequel. They couldn't care less how mature the fan base is --- according to that argument, Tomb Raider fans are more mature than Deus Ex fans, which is complete nonsense.

Any word on jjmikhail's project? Did he ever meet with Warren Spector? In what context did he plan to meet with him?

thevisitor

05-07-2007, 01:32 PM

Why is it that some of the people here seemed to hate DE2 for many reasons, but they are still calling for a DE3?

DE2 was a good game. Perhaps compared to its gritty predecessor, it doesn't have the same "dirty" aspect, but it did have a certain futuristic charm. The person-to-person conversations were much better than DE1, and it allowed you to talk people into giving you stuff and co-operating. I am an avid fan of 'splosions, but a little talking now-and-again gives the game an extra dimention.

Perhaps the game didn't render excellant graphics on low-end computers. Stop complaining about the game and buy a better computer.

On the topic of DE3's storyline, it seemed in DE2 that they combined the storylines from all three DE1 endings. Perhaps they will do the same, but I don't see how they can do that without ending up in exactly the same place as at the beginning of DE2.

Anyone got any thoughts?

primer

05-09-2007, 03:16 PM

I had a Intel gma 900 integrated graphics, could not play Deus Ex 2. So I upgraded to a Pny nvidia 6200 256MB PCI ( not express )

Now I can play it on low settings it is good ( recognized Nicolette as the ? easily ) the game is rushed like all other eidos games they must like money more than fully funtional games, wise eidos do not rush them out WAIT :lmao:

gareis

06-11-2007, 05:15 AM

Why is it that some of the people here seemed to hate DE2 for many reasons, but they are still calling for a DE3?

Invisible War had issues. It was a decent game, but the original was much better, and in a fairly different style. DX:IW was a few shoves away from being a gritty Star Wars game in terms of appearance, whereas DX1 was believable as a possible future, just few years off.

Most importantly, though, the story in Invisible War was quite loose. There was a conscious effort not to particularly reward certain choices, which gave me no motivation to follow anyone.

The biggest difference was: in Deus Ex, it was a question of who I trusted the most. In Invisible War, it was a question of who I trusted the least.

Of course, in DX, nobody was completely honest until the end, but you had the impression that they were telling you the truth, just not all of it all the time. You had actual friends and a home.

But in Invisible War, you just rattled around from Seattle to Germany to Egypt and back, and ended up killing the one person who sort of wanted to be your friend. Of course, that would be moving, if you had had time previously to actually become her friend. It's like the situation with Manderley -- he was almost a father to me. Even Anna Navarre was a closer friend than Billie Adams.

And morality? You were pretty much convinced that everyone you met was evil. A few of them proved it; a few of them were unimportant enough that they were okay; and in the end, you had no moral decisions. They were all immoral.

Contrast this to the original: kill Lebedev, an unarmed prisoner, or let Navarre do it? Or kill your ally to defend an enemy? Similar choices with the first terrorist leader. And people to reprimand you for, say, letting hostages die. As well as plenty of situations where you were unequivocally the good guy, except you got to hear the bad guys' stories and realize that they were just frightened and panicking and doing the wrong thing.

Still, all these issues can easily be fixed in a third game. Or at least most; a third game would be set even farther in the future, so I'm not sure how you'd get the old world feel. Though probably most of the futuristic bits are provided by the WTO, so if you eliminate them (or just clam them up a fair bit, like the Omar), you've got it made. And the story...that can be fixed, too. It should be more linear. Branching if it's reasonable, but not amorphous like Invisible War.

The story's the big issue. Trust is the big issue. Emotion -- and the story controlling the player's emotions -- is the big issue.

dxfan94

09-08-2007, 01:40 PM

I think DX1 and 2 were great especailly IW. the story line was great idk about the other gamers out there but to me it was a catching story. sure the game could have been longer but other than that i thought it was great. IW is the future that i would want to see.

Scadvid

11-24-2007, 07:16 PM

I doubt there will be a Deus Ex 3. The fan base simply has proven itself too immature, and seeing the posts about Deus Ex Invisible War on this forum recently that obviously hasn't changed. Maybe if people actually provided some facts and consistency in thier criticism of Invisible War, Edios would see reason to continue its series, but because its so called "fan base" preached criticism even it didn't believe to tick off the developers for their own enjoyment, they are now suffering the consequences.

If you think the DX fan base is immature, take a look at the F.E.A.R./Project Origin franchise -- that's immaturity in a nutshell!.

I was a capital critic at the old Ion Storm forums, and still a critic to this day, as I was severely disappointed in DX2. Disliked DX2 the most because of the required computer upgrade (and since then refused to upgrade a computer solely to play a game -- no more $500 to $1500 waste of money to play a $50 game once). The second aspect I disliked was the menu system, which I'm seeing the Project Origin (which I refer to now as Project: Snowblind II) is adopting, and it's going to be a royal pain for FPS players, as it ruins the view.

That intro finished, here's what this old time fan has to say about what she would like in DX3...

No universal ammo. The "prize" of finding ammo is a treasure hunt itself.
Bring back the RPG and expand on it some. DX1 was a hybrid game not just a FPS and that's it's strength. Add some more RPG elements to it (since MMOs are such a rage now, and folks will appreciate it more today). Make sure folks can continue from where they left off -- JCDenton could've been an redhead, so make sure players can pick haircolor at least. Don't change his face, or do the F.E.A.R. BS with a generic Point man scenerio.
Optional: Make DX3 a MMO. There won't be a complaint about game time again! Folks then can enjoy both the FPS/RPG and SP/MP aspects of the Deus Ex universe -- and Eidos, you know this fan base is so rabid that they continue to mod this game 7 years later -- so keeping the MMO alive won't be an issue!
Don't make JC and the rest of the crew "darker". The environment is dark enough, making the protagonist grimer would just take the "hero" away. He's suppose to be complicated (with issues from his past), but that doesn't mean he needs to be an ex-drug addict, with issues straight from Hollyweird. Make the environment bleak, but give the player an option to play him based on their own morality. Give a reason for all types of players of different moral levels to enjoy playing him, not be forced to dip into slime just to play.
Models: how about just updating them with higher polycounts, yet still keep the same style? It's basically what the fans who've modded this game ever wanted -- a modernized DX1. Nice to have new environments, but unlike other games, DX1 players get attached to the characters and want them to be similiar.
Voice acting: Is it possible to at least get the same guy who voiced JC back (I notice he's still voice acting)? He has an unique way of talking that's not wussy, but not overly macho, that appeals to both guys and gals -- Professional merc type. Same can be said of Walton Simmons (that's one creepy voice!). What's so appealing is that Warren Spector tried so hard to make the voice acting not so "over the top" with the main characters (can't say the same with the minor ones like the bums and the cat lady -- they were "over the top"), and the game would just be spoiled if we got some metrosexual voice acting. JC (pro killer speech), Tong (teacher type personality), Simmons (disembodied coldness) and Alex (sounded just like a IT type) were believeable in their dialogues, not over dramatic.
Graphics: please don't penalize players without 2008 Quad proc/GPU systems (like Hellgate: London did). If DX10 will be the new standard, don't take the fun out for everyone with DX9 only systems. Reduce the texture quality, but leave in the special FX effects. F.E.A.R. showed it's possible to do, even on 2003 systems.
Music: Get Alexander Brandon and crew back. They know how to make theme music, not this industrial garbage that's being passed off as music now. Let's get some good environmental sound effects, too. One thing I like about the F.E.A.R. franchise is that sound is so important -- hearing the footsteps in the next room, sounds of even clothes and leaves rustling, all tips to notice the enemy is around (terrific in MP).
Gameplay (non-MMO):

Consequences for actions early into the game. If the player is going to a gungho killer and shoots civilians, there's consequences for not maintaining fire control. If the player steals something he's not suppose too, he can be caught and face a penalty (pay a fine; or lose sneak ability for being a 5 finger discounter, instead of picking things for objectives). If the player snipes, the report and flash will show his existence and he'll be targetted, if not by baddies some type of drone (have those HK remote projectile sensors everywhere), that way he can't remained perched throughout the game.
No limit on weapons carried, just space (as this seems to be a norm now with FPS games limiting weapons to 2/3). Some players want to just shoot their way around, and would gladly give up slots for other drops if not needed.
Leave the fun in with the Tear gas cans and LAMs too (like the ability to use them as portable ladders -- think MacGyver!).
Allow the ability to move objects to also use as ladders (hate not having that ability in these "modern" FPS games now).
Make sure a level is an underwater world, as the swimming/submarine exploration was really fun, and sorely missed in FPS worlds.
Weapons: If there's going to be a rail gun that spits out 300 rpm, the ammo needs to be appropriate. Not just two drops on a whole level. If it's a player's main weapon (use a weapon time counter to judge -- that'll be a neat affect to show off to folks, total time mastering a weapon in the viewfinder or ingame rifle display LCD), the AI needs to be appropriately matched. It's more fun that players fight baddies who use the same firepower. Balance and appropriate AI matching is essential.
Reward stealth play more. It's the hardest skill to accomplish, and due to it, the reward for patience over speed should be more. Too many like to brag they can finish a game in 6 to 8hrs. How about bragging they finished the game without killing one soul? That is truly tough.
Let's have some real use for the money we collect, other than buying weapon mods and ammo. How about paying for easier transport, when necessary? Bribing informants? Giving to charity for a karma effect?

Gameplay (MMO):

Much more complex RPG elements, with stores to buy/sell/trade loot.
Have a bank/safe system, so players can store loot for latter.
Make eating more important than just to heal, now it also effects stamina (at 30% you can't carry as much too).
Argumentation will have higher levels (100), each level giving that 1% extra ability, but some argumentations/upgrade canisters will be rare and some only gotten via completing a very tough task.
Adopt an optional guild or faction system from the DX2 universe if you wish, but a player can pick his alignment more clearly (good, neutral, bad) -- optional since, some may just want to play as rogues.
Players can play as any character in the DX universe, with the pro/cons by doing so (as there will be players wanting to play Tong and Gunther, for example).
Players can also play as city folks in "trades" (mercs; bartenders; doctors; pimps; roving journalists, etc.).
Travel can be with helicopter, boat, sub, or teleporter (in cities); and you can hire transport when necessary, with money you gained from completing objectives/selling loot.
Rank is based on how high your clearance (which will help balance the rush to get every argumentation to max out -- a problem with MMOs, hoarding and leveling too quickly), which can only be gained via experience in field on tasks over time. Low clearance you're barred from entering areas that contains the better/best loot and secrets.

Have 1001 more suggestions, but this is just a gist of it: keep DX1 in DX3, but modernize elements of it. Players wouldn't mind higher poly counts models so JC, crew and environments were more life like (which is main emphasis on modding today), but they will mind if JC looks metrosexual, or is so bleak and cold he no longer resembles the original. Remember, even Warren Spector said he developed an attachment to these characters, and it's true with fans. Mess too much in how they look and act, they no longer are original -- the main gripe about DX2 Alex and JC's detachment and coldness. If DX3 turns JC and the crew into anything but they were like in DX1, I simply won't buy it, as I'm not trading in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings for a Harry Potter story, period. Deus Ex is a touchstone classic, and one that gets critical criticism if it goes off the path, just like all the adaption's of Tolkien's works. Keep that in mind Eidos!

piratecop

11-29-2007, 04:28 AM

deus ex 3 needs more random areas. in deus ex 2, breakin into random peoples apartments was fun!

rhalibus

04-04-2008, 03:08 PM

Sorry, specifically for Jordan's sake, I'll haphazardly edit this first post, explaining that this thread, titled "Deus Ex 3 Information", pertains to all the collective information we have, from the original concept art, to Jordan's thread, to the October information. Now I'm off to bed before the sun rises.

All right people--here's (http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26324582) the link to the Gamespot page that contains a forum post that contains a link to a possible DX3 concept art screenshot and related article. For non-French speakers, you can use Google to translate the page...

Article:
http://www.denis-talbot.com/content/view/525/45/

Image:
http://www.denis-talbot.com/images/jeux/Deus_Ex/Deus_Ex_3/Deus_Ex_3_Mr_Net_Background.JPG

Apologies if I broke any rules or anything...:)

no you didn't

van_HellSing

04-04-2008, 03:41 PM

Looks pretty legit.

Nice. :cool:

Larington

04-04-2008, 04:24 PM

Holy crap, the google translate is worth the effort.

Scadvid

04-04-2008, 09:28 PM

DAMN!!

That's superb concept art. It looks more like an architect's drawing. Even the lighting looks flourescent. Heck, the details are right down to the waxed flooring.

The only flaw I can see is the overly exposed wiring, even on the floor. OSHA would have had a field day listing work place safety violations (electrical and trip hazards)!

Really like the busy "lived in" look, too. Too often the little things are overlooked, or, replaced with common models (for a lab, test tubes and flasks). This time it's a mix of an electrician's shop and a bio lab.

Nice. :)

And notice: it's not Star Trekish, but industrial. Industrial enough in the near future to be believeable????

Maybe, just maybe DX3 will follow the cyberpunk tradition. Concept art can change a lot between paper and the final level design, though. Eitherway, it's a step in the right direction.

:thumbsup:

-=fox=-

04-05-2008, 01:46 AM

I like how it's looking but I am not yet convinced this is really a concept art for DX3. Something like that recently also happened with Bioshock II.

Unstoppable

04-05-2008, 03:46 AM

Very nice thank you :D.

Gunter Herman

04-05-2008, 05:23 AM

Looks real to me, but would be nice if someone told us in case it's not. :confused:

Unstoppable

04-05-2008, 09:29 AM

Looks real to me, but would be nice if someone told us in case it's not. :confused:

Maybe they wanted us to figure it out :D.

Vasarto

04-05-2008, 09:39 AM

Scadvid

04-05-2008, 10:40 AM

Well hell ya man! The concept art we have been asking for is definitly this.

If that is just the concept arts design I wonder how the actual game is gonna be like?.......This is gonna be even harder than waiting those two 1/2
years for twilight princess to come out!

Don't get worked up over concept art. Rarely is it fully incorporated in a game, and certainly not at that detail.

Furthermore, considering the hype over DX2 and the ballistic revolt, DX fans are quite skeptical of ANYTHING related to DX3. Eidos has to prove they can make up for the loss of faith in the franchise, due to that horrendous release.

If DX3 proves to be close to it's true root (cyberpunk not a Star Trek clone), and the storyline is equal or better than DX1, then fans can rejoice once again.

Until then it's a wait and see approach.

jordan_a

04-05-2008, 10:45 AM

Do we have any DX2 artworks? It would interesting to compare.

Gunter Herman

04-05-2008, 11:12 AM

I only got a couple of screenshots from early stages.

Eidos has to prove they can make up for the loss of faith in the franchise, due to that horrendous release.

Weren't there enough threads about that? Accept it: There are people who think DX2 was far weaker than DX1 but still an excellent game compared to all the average stuff out there. I'm one of them. So please don't make a general statement in the name of all DX fans, thanks. ****

Blade_hunter

04-05-2008, 11:42 AM

Thanks for this links I saw a robot hand on a table this is maybe a way to make human bots ....
I saw organic components to make bio modified human like JC
Or with the twice to make mech mods like Gunther Herman / Anna navarre / Jordan Shea

If we have character artworks it will be say if the game is a prequel or a sequel or maybe an alternate way of DX 2 ..... After all, most of DX fans doesn't like DX 2 as DX 1 but it depends on what they're waiting for the sequel of DX 1 of course ....

Scadvid

04-05-2008, 11:58 AM

So please don't make a general statement in the name of all DX fans, thanks. ****

Okay, all of the hardcore fans. :)

Gunter Herman

04-05-2008, 03:01 PM

Okay, all of the hardcore fans. :)

Ok, call me softcore, but at least I have maintained the ability to notice subtle differences. :cool:

Larington

04-05-2008, 03:03 PM

Note the gantry and ventilation shaft up high that might allow an agent to sneak about unseen. ;-)

Yeah, much as I believe that DX2 could have been better, on balance, it wasn't a bad game, it just could've been so much more which is probably why so many cried foul. But on the other hand, DX2 means that Eidos montreal have evidence of some of the things they need to avoid this time around (For reasons that have been discussed in countless other forums and threads in years past) so heres hoping.

rhalibus

04-05-2008, 03:07 PM

I've been studying the concept art shot for a while now, and I really can't think of any way they could have made it significantly better--the sterile atmosphere, the cyber punk feel with a realistic future vision--very impressive. This shot makes me feel better about Eidos Montreal...

Now just make sure every sheet of paper on the desk can be read, every bottle, small device or tool can be picked up, every terminal can be accessed, every light can be turned off or shot out, every glass divider can be shattered, every large device can be manipulated, and every NPC can be conversed with! :)

Gunter Herman

04-05-2008, 03:14 PM

Now just make sure every sheet of paper on the desk can be read, every bottle, small device or tool can be picked up, every terminal can be accessed, every light can be turned off or shot out, every glass divider can be shattered, every large device can be manipulated, and every NPC can be conversed with! :)

You wanna play it before 2015? :scratch:

Angel/0A

04-05-2008, 05:05 PM

Do we have any DX2 artworks? It would interesting to compare.

Hah, I totally forgot about the robo-baboon... :D

Deus Ex 2 Concept Art (http://www.planetdeusex.com/dx2/files/art/)
Deus Ex 1 Concept Art (http://www.planetdeusex.com/dx1/files/art/) (in case anyone wanted to compare it in addition)

AaronJ

04-05-2008, 05:58 PM

+2 Faith

AgentSmithereens

04-06-2008, 12:34 AM

There's DX1 concept art of Tracer Tong's laboratory here:
http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/april02/dxbible/dx1/index.shtm
To be honest I can't make out much as it's so detailed, all I can see are some boats. So that proves that this DX3 concept art shouldn't be taken too seriously.

minus0ne

04-06-2008, 01:16 AM

Very nice, it shows the artist has the feel of the DX atmosphere pinned down. A rough guess tells me it's an augmented body parts assembly lab of some kind (hard to guess at what's in those tanks, but behind the blue tank on the right looks almost like assembled artificial limbs).
+2 Faith
Faith being belief that doesn't lie with material evidence or logical proof, I'd say;
+2 Trust!

Gary_Savage

04-06-2008, 05:03 AM

The screen to the left is reminiscent of the transparent green screens from DX1 (the ones with a large circle somewhere on the west coast of the United States). The whole environment looks believable, to me, and in some respects it reminds me of a machine shop I have been to. Combine the looks with the guys in the monkey suits, however, and the place looks somewhat like a low level clean. That's very cool! It would be interesting to see my player character having to don one of those suits (to protect the products from himself), or risk setting off every alarm during infiltration.

P.S. I really could have a field day, talking an undergrad through all the safety and industrial procedures violations, like the lack of a hood --to protect the rest of the lab from particles flying off, when the robot welder is in use -- and vacuum/ventilation apparatus at the left of the room, the complete lack of safety showers, etc., in addition what Scadvid has already said.

Xcom

04-11-2008, 12:27 AM

I'll stick this (original) thread for the time being because folks keep re-posting the image.

gamer0004

04-11-2008, 06:00 AM

Could someone translate the text and post it here?

pauldenton

04-11-2008, 06:19 AM

a vid of eidos at work, may even see dx 3 in there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm0hVJ0etYo

and for all those who find the concept art link is down, you can find it here but in slightly lower res

http://bp1.blogger.com/_ejVhPSXllX0/R_uE2qs-PvI/AAAAAAAAC9Y/qdajq_3Hb3o/s1600-h/dx3.JPG

Xcom

04-11-2008, 06:21 AM

@gamer
You can run it through google translator, babelfish or something similar. It does a decent job.

a vid of eidos at work, may even see dx 3 in there?

Look like they're all playing Tomb Raider. :lol:

gamer0004

04-11-2008, 09:17 AM

@gamer
You can run it through google translator, babelfish or something similar. It does a decent job.

Hmm I've used Babelfish before and it wasn't very good... But now I can't find the text anymore :P

exxon_valdez

04-11-2008, 09:27 AM

Looks pretty legit.

Nice. :cool:

more than legit - it looks like a 3D render with some photoshop
effects to blur things up.

as far as i know, concept art is usually a sketch to illustrate
the basic feeling, the idea or atmosphere - imho this is clearly a
model, no one can draw so correctly and in perspective.

or am i deluding myself?

Tracer Tong

04-11-2008, 09:28 AM

Nice finds! I really like the style of the lab.

But the end of the video says "we're going to come back and see the games in development", now where might that part be?

I think that I want to book a flight to Canada.... :) I'm starting to save for it.

Tracer Tong

04-11-2008, 09:29 AM

exxon_valdez

04-11-2008, 09:43 AM

This is drawn. Maybe they used sharpening or sketched it with vector-graphics and colored it manually...

P.S. Have you noticed that there are absolutely NO BOTS in this concept art? This reassures me as this being a prequel (also, the organs in production look pretty mechanic, a la navarre/hermann, to me)

i don't know, seems pretty superhuman drawing like that.
and since it's kinda related to what i do, i'm becoming concerned..

btw, i'd also like it to be a prequel. and, i'd like david icke to star
in it, just for laughs :)

ot:
dude, your nickname sould be "Tracer Thong", seriously

Xcom

04-11-2008, 10:01 AM

Well, there is actually little known about this image, and as far as I know, nobody said it was drawn by hand.

Tracer Tong

04-11-2008, 10:07 AM

Well, there is actually little known about this image, and as far as I know, nobody said it was drawn by hand.

IMHO it was drawn with a drawing pad attached to a computer with vectorized graphics drawing tool (i.e. the CAD family), and then also colored with it. Also, the size of the illustration (huge, no papers with size like this) indicates that it was drawn into a computer.

Well, at least the lines were manual... :)

I'll seriously consider changing my nickname :D Thanks.

EDIT: It is most definitely not a 3D model turned to a sketch using a magical Photoshop filter. There are no available filters to date which are capable of such paint-realistic effects.

pauldenton

04-11-2008, 12:48 PM

in the vid they said they would be back with more a little later on in the program - with more on the games they develope and test - anyone have any more of this?

AaronJ

04-11-2008, 05:11 PM

If they are trying to cover this image up, what a pathetic effort. As if we didn't expect this. Don't forget people. Eidos Montreal. No matter how pretty, they suffer the sins of the father company.

Of course, I saved the picture as soon as I saw it, and published it everywhere.

Xcom

04-12-2008, 02:07 AM

If they are trying to cover this image up, what a pathetic effort.

What do you mean?

That site was down for some time yesterday. It seems to working now with the image intact.

EDIT: It is most definitely not a 3D model turned to a sketch using a magical Photoshop filter. There are no available filters to date which are capable of such paint-realistic effects.

If you say so. :) I just don't know of any rule that says that concept art can only be hand drawn on paper. I mean it's about creating a concept, right? If they used software (any software), what's the difference?

gamer0004

04-12-2008, 03:08 AM

i don't know, seems pretty superhuman drawing like that.
and since it's kinda related to what i do, i'm becoming concerned..

btw, i'd also like it to be a prequel. and, i'd like david icke to star
in it, just for laughs :)

ot:
dude, your nickname sould be "Tracer Thong", seriously

You should see the guy that makes the "gone with the blastwave" comic (blastwavecomic.com). There are some vids of him drawing and that's superhuman. The artwork reminded me of his work very much. So yes, I think it was drawn by hand.

finch150

04-12-2008, 04:27 AM

Damn you Eidos, your ploy of baiting our breath is working perfectly...

*Shakes Fist*

But i love it so much

*Drools over art*

Larington

04-12-2008, 08:50 AM

I sincerely doubt an attempted cover up, I know the game is about conspiracies but come on, please at least try not to be cynical (Theres scepticism and theres, worse)... Besides, the moment I learned of this I forwarded the info on to rockpapershotgun.com a PC gaming centric site thats become one of my main haunts so the word was well and truly out pretty quickly (The people behind RPS are GAMES journalists such as Keiron Gillen of PC Gamer UK fame) making a cover up impossible.

Tracer Tong

04-13-2008, 09:53 AM

There were and still are programs where you draw a line on that USB drawing board and no matter how jagged and non-linear your hand draws it, the program fixes it (and there's a keyboard shortcut to keep it as you drew it), the said program also has a feature to smoothen jagged lines.

I just forgot the name of that famous said program, sorry... :scratch:

pKp

04-13-2008, 11:28 AM

The text :
Stéphane D’Astou a profité de son passage à l’émission M.Net à Montréal pour présenter la toute première image du jeu Deus EX 3 dont la production est bien entamée dans les nouveaux studios de la métropole canadienne. L’image est en fait une ébauche représentant un vaste espace qui ressemble à un laboratoire. « Ces tableaux aident nos artistes à bien visualiser l’esprit que l’on veut dégager dans Deux Ex 3. » déclare David Anfossi, producteur du projet. « Nous avons fait appel aux concepteurs originaux des itérations précédentes afin de bien cerner la direction que nous avons pris » rajoute t’il. La pression est forte pour le jeune studio Montréalais, surtout depuis les coupures effectuées par les grands patrons britanniques d’Eidos, il y a quelques semaines. En entrevue, les deux représentants du studio montréalais n’ont pas été très loquaces quant aux détails concernant Deus Ex 3. « Sur Youtube, nos fans ont analysé, image par image, la bande-annonce du jeu annoncé il y quelques mois…ils ont travaillés forts » déclare en souriant Stéphane D’astou. Aucune date de sortie n’a été avancée pour le moment.

Translated text :

Stéphane d'Astou presented the very first image of Deus Ex 3 in the Montréal-based TV show M.Net. The game's production is well advanced in the Canadian city's new studios. The image is a sketch of a vast place, possibly a laboratory. "These pictures help our artists visualize the kind of look we want for DX3", said David Anfossi, the project's producer. "We have asked the original conceptors of the previous iterations to review the project and confirm the way we're heading". The pressure is hard on the young studio - even more so since the project's budget was reduced by the British heads of Eidos a few weeks ago. In an interview, the two spokesmen of the Montréal studio haven't been very keen on giving details about Deus Ex 3. "On Youtube, our fans analyzed image by image the trailer we released a few months ago...they worked very hard", said Stéphane d'Astou with a smile. There is currently no official release date.

Working very hard, are we ? :D

Larington

04-13-2008, 11:40 AM

The pressure is hard on the young studio - even more so since the project's budget was reduced by the British heads of Eidos a few weeks ago.

Oh for goodness sake, when will the people with all the money wake up and give these development teams the resources they need to do their job.

Now I find myself wondering if the penny pinchers will be afraid to advertise the game properly, which would be fatal. I've seen too many games which have huge potential to show the rubbish linear shooters how good games can be, only to see them underhyped and thus missed by all the hype hunters.
<Sigh>

Not happy about that at all.

mr_cyberpunk

04-13-2008, 11:18 PM

more than legit - it looks like a 3D render with some photoshop
effects to blur things up.

as far as i know, concept art is usually a sketch to illustrate
the basic feeling, the idea or atmosphere - imho this is clearly a
model, no one can draw so correctly and in perspective.

or am i deluding myself?

Yes you are.. Concept art =! always sketched - you can have digital concept art, which I do all the time and have been doing so for all my games. If anything concept art in photoshop is more preferable because its not as messy and can be produced much quicker. (especially with a good tablet :D)

Also its not a 3D model with photoshop over the top.. that would be stupidly excessive. They obviously have just had a very talented in house artist with out any assistance whip up something that I consider to be pretty top notch concept art in a very short period of time (I know from experience that this is hard to pull off), further more Eidos wouldn't be covering it up - else they would have openly annoyed the fans like the Bethesda Soft boys do all the time with their "if you aren't with us.. **** off" attitude to press releases.

-- ok now I'd like to say a few things to the rest of the community.

A lot of members of this forum are being immature and totally rude to the community manager as well as disrespectful to Eidos as an organization.

I'd also like to say that all this "Hard Core DX Fan" bs is immature. Seriously this is why so many of the mod developers don't post here anymore, because we all think you guys just ***** and whine about why we aren't doing enough..

And further more I don't think Eidos appreciates you guys always flaming their projects. I'm quite positive that Eidos will deliver a good Thief game, they now have a reason to, Assassin's Creed by UbiSoft is a massive competitor. This can only do good for both franchises as competition and variety are both great things.

Please show a bit of respect.

Oh and Global Node, most of that was directed at you.

---- back on topic

There were and still are programs where you draw a line on that USB drawing board and no matter how jagged and non-linear your hand draws it, the program fixes it (and there's a keyboard shortcut to keep it as you drew it), the said program also has a feature to smoothen jagged lines.

I just forgot the name of that famous said program, sorry... :scratch:

Err. Photoshop... + Wacom Tablet? you can do vectors + anti-aliased bitmaps (before converting to a nice format like 24-bit .png drool!) excelent program, get a trial from Adobe if you don't agree :P www.adobe.com

minus0ne

04-14-2008, 12:11 AM

A lot of members of this forum are being immature and totally rude to the community manager as well as disrespectful to Eidos as an organization. [...]
Please show a bit of respect.
QFT. This is getting ridiculous. The concept-art cover-up? Please.

And further more I don't think Eidos appreciates you guys always flaming their projects. I'm quite positive that Eidos will deliver a good Thief game, they now have a reason to, Assassin's Creed by UbiSoft is a massive competitor. This can only do good for both franchises as competition and variety are both great things.
Well not that Assasin's Creed is anywhere even near the level of a series like Thief (AC being an utter failure in all ways, save perhaps for graphics, I assume they bought every gaming mag/site to get at least a somewhat decent rating). I highly doubt Thief 4 and Assasin's Creed have anywhere near the same target audience (totally different gameplay, Thief requires thinking and planning, whereas AC is just a run&'gun' platform game pretending to be about stealth yet lacking any type of stealth gameplay engine). I know for a fact console gamers sometimes pity us PC gamers, but to be brutally honest I feel for them since they pay such ludicrous amounts of money for such utter crap most of the time.

AaronJ

04-14-2008, 11:09 AM

Yes, my past few posts have been aggressive. I will blame that on a flu I had, put me in a sour mood. I guess I'm okay now.

Bloodwolf806

04-14-2008, 11:17 AM

Very nice. It looks somehwere between DX1 and IW, which is a good thing.

AaronJ

04-14-2008, 11:38 AM

Very nice. It looks somehwere between DX1 and IW, which is a good thing.

Sounds familiar.

Larington

04-14-2008, 01:33 PM

I have a lot of faith in the developers to pull this off. But I am somewhat concerned that the british heads of Eidos may be demonstrating a lack of faith in their own product by cutting funding, so I hope they had a very good reason for doing so.

Similarly, if they've done this for funding of the games development, I am concerned that the funds might not be put forward for a good marketing campaign, and quite frankly, a game that doesn't follow the easy path needs to be advertised to encourage certain groups of gamers to follow the road less travelled (But SO worth the effort).

What makes me really uncomfortable is the thought that maybe one day I might be working on a game development project only to find the fundings been 'reduced' and that the quality of my work or indeed, my job, might be at risk as a result.

deus ex fan

04-18-2008, 02:51 PM

well,its impossible for companies like EIDOS to cut fundings in so much important (al least for the videogames industry) projects like DX....

i believe that in DX 3,EIDOS will fund enough the development team to make DX 3 a....masterpiece.

it would be shame if DX 3 fails to our expectations.And i dont believe that DX's 3 campaign will be poor(in terms of promoting DX 3)

DX 3 is not a usual videogame.DX is THE game.....

Aminevo

04-18-2008, 04:45 PM

I wonder how far they are in development.

AaronJ

04-18-2008, 10:05 PM

They probably have the story, which eats at me. I NEED TO KNOW.

deus ex fan

04-18-2008, 11:17 PM

i think they are develope NPC's.......;)

very early stages of development........

Larington

04-18-2008, 11:51 PM

Well they passed proof of concept approval in (Checks the Eidos Montreal Facebook group) late November, so they've had about 4/5 months of development time which probably means (Sadly, I'm not yet an expert on this) that they'll have mostly paper plans and layouts down for whats going into the levels and probably a bunch of prototype code (The kind you're supposed to throw out once you've got all the features nailed down, though some times release deadlines cause that rule to be bent) to test the various features they plan to put in the game.

At this point, its likely that they'll be at or nearing the 80% of the design concluded stage where theres room for refinement as the necessity is revealed (IE where they conclude a feature will need to be adjusted for one reason or other) and can sit down and start building the character models, levels/environments, props and so on.

They might also have one or two people working on a new bit of hype to feed to the hungry masses, though that might be wishful thinking on my part.

These conclusions are partly based on knowing they have a ready made graphics engine via Crystal Dynamics, which is nice, saves them time spent re-inventing the wheel (Rendering/graphics engine, etc.).

Tracer Tong

04-19-2008, 07:35 AM

These conclusions are partly based on knowing they have a ready made graphics engine via Crystal Dynamics, which is nice, saves them time spent re-inventing the wheel (Rendering/graphics engine, etc.).

Rubbish! They're going to do the same job that they (ION Storm) did to Unreal Engine 1. It's a lot of work (it's most of the work after the paper stage is done. Custom UI, mouse interaction, convos, HUD... It sure takes a while)

Larington

04-19-2008, 08:26 AM

What I meant is that they don't have to make the graphics engine again FROM SCRATCH, I'd thought that was implicit. The interface, features and gameplay still have to be programmed, obviously.

Joseph Manderley's Corpse

04-20-2008, 03:23 PM

All I can say is they BETTER NOT screw this one up.

Joseph Manderley's Corpse

04-20-2008, 03:32 PM

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the picture reminds me of Versa-Life.

Jima B

04-21-2008, 02:28 AM

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, the picture reminds me of Versa-Life.

That it does...

As for the guy who said this concept of tongs lab isn't accurate....
http://archive.gamespy.com/asp/image.asp?/articles/april02/dxbible/snaps/tracertongslab.jpg
I see, in that shot, an enclosed compound, near the canal. Same as in the game :P

Tracer Tong

04-21-2008, 01:33 PM

IMHO they put in too much effort drawing the ships... But that game's already done, and very well done for that matter :rasp:

Voltaire

04-22-2008, 06:01 AM

If I'm honest, this concept art seems to be bait for us guys. It gives away so little, but satisfies us enough to believe that this is actually happening.

The time is left unspecified (mech stuff indicates prequel, but there's a certain glossiness about everything, so maybe not) and the pic has a traditional DX mood. You know what I mean? The right amount of clutter, two or three NPCs in a room vents and walkways.

This concept shot is just what the doctor ordered for people waiting for the game, even though there isn't that much substance to go on - I know some people will disagree with that statement, but Eidos are keeping their cards to their chest on this one...

Tracer Tong

04-22-2008, 06:48 AM

Larington

04-22-2008, 11:35 AM

"This concept shot is just what the doctor ordered for people waiting for the game, even though there isn't that much substance to go on - I know some people will disagree with that statement, but Eidos are keeping their cards to their chest on this one..."

I agree with that completely, its odd how just a little info can go such a long way...

AaronJ

04-22-2008, 02:54 PM

This looks...boring...to be honest. I think thats the perfect word for it. It's bland, we've seen all of these designs before.

rhalibus

04-22-2008, 11:35 PM

I believe the sterile environment might add to the atmosphere--and I can just hear the cool ambient sound effects...:)

Necros

04-23-2008, 05:16 AM

Wow, it is a really nice piece of artwork, I can't wait to see more of Deus Ex 3. :cool:

van_HellSing

04-23-2008, 01:54 PM

Whatever it means, the "title starting with T" tease is gone from the Eidos Montreal site.

First the 2027 date on the DX3 teaser, now this... looks like the studio's trademark is going to be premature leaks ;)

Gary_Savage

04-23-2008, 04:57 PM

... looks like the studio's trademark is going to be premature leaks ;)

:lol:

serene_chaos

04-23-2008, 06:29 PM

I thought the "T" thing was in reference to reviving Thief?

van_HellSing

04-23-2008, 10:56 PM

Most of us think so. There aren't many Eidos franchises starting with "T", can't be Tomb Raider as Crystal Dynamics are already working on one and the series doesn't need reviving, Total Overdose is not really that popular, neither is Typing of the Dead ;)

There's also the fact that Stephane d'Astous had a "T" as his facebook icon for a short time, and it just happened to be the "T" from the Thief logo. Of course, he immediately changed it when people noticed :rasp:

DXeXodus

04-23-2008, 11:36 PM

I still think that the T is THief 4 and I will be very excited if it is. They did Thief 3 and DX2 at the same time... I see no reason (apart from the lack of awesomeness of both games - T3 was IMHO the better of the 2) that they wouldnt do it again :rolleyes:

jordan_a

04-24-2008, 12:22 AM

They did Thief 3 and DX2 at the same time.Let's just hope they don't do that, all right? :D

van_HellSing

04-24-2008, 12:23 AM

I just hope they're in contact with Terri Brosius and the rest of the former LGS staff about the canon, it's even more important in Thief than DX imho. Unless they're going with that modernised version there was talk of earlier, that would be easier. I'm actually quite intrigued by that idea, if they managed to pull it off good, I'd have no qualms about that. They got me at "senator Bafford".

Tracer Tong

04-24-2008, 03:58 AM

a vid of eidos at work, may even see dx 3 in there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm0hVJ0etYo

Finally, the other part (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU) of that video where Stephane is interviewed:

gamer0004

04-24-2008, 08:38 AM

Rick Roll :scratch:

Joseph Manderley's Corpse

04-24-2008, 10:55 AM

Rick Roll :scratch:

pwn3d

lulzzzz

Tracer Tong

04-24-2008, 11:27 PM

A bit late on that one but YAY :lol:

DXeXodus

04-25-2008, 12:35 AM

That was cruel

Tracer Tong

04-25-2008, 02:19 AM

Sorry, I want that interview as much as you do.

phlebas

05-01-2008, 05:06 PM

Looks delicious. I hope this is one of their concept arts...

Kind of GiS-ish I think. Which is a good thing!

B0b_P@ge

05-04-2008, 11:22 AM

You wanna play it before 2015? :scratch:

Yes, Deus Ex1 was the greatest - and in my opinion still is- game in my entire life. I've already waited 8 years and I have absolutely no problem to wait for longer :D

rhalibus

05-04-2008, 01:50 PM

Deus Ex took a year just to QA...If DX3 is anything like DX1 then they might not release it 'till 2010...:eek:

Tracer Tong

05-05-2008, 05:14 AM

Deus Ex took a year just to QA...If DX3 is anything like DX1 then they might not release it 'till 2010...:eek:

I wanna play it before 2027... Don't wanna miss the biopolitical votes...:cool:

AaronJ

05-05-2008, 10:04 AM

It will have to be 2009. It will have to be.

Necros

05-11-2008, 07:44 AM

Based on what they've said in interviews, I think DX3 will be out late 2009 or early 2010. I can wait, just let it be a good game. :cool:

Larington

05-12-2008, 11:14 AM

My money is on Fall (Christmas) 2009, with a 30-50% chance of slipping into first public holiday period of 2010 (Easter possibly)... As much as I hate to say it, no developer is perfect, so I couldn't say with a straight face that theres 0 chance of the game getting a delay announcement at some stage in its late development.

gamer0004

05-12-2008, 11:29 AM

I hope they take another 3 months extra when they've completed the game, just to check everything and polish and balance out everything as much as possible.

DXeXodus

05-14-2008, 03:54 AM

I hope they take another 3 months extra when they've completed the game, just to check everything and polish and balance out everything as much as possible.

Most definitely. I'd rather wait longer than get an unpolished game.

As to when it's released I would put my money on christmas 2009. It might be a bit early, but that is over a year and a half away, and they have already been working on it for a while now.

rhalibus

05-14-2008, 03:20 PM

I hope they take another 3 months extra when they've completed the game, just to check everything and polish and balance out everything as much as possible.

More accurately, we all hope they'll be allowed another 3 months extra by the publishers to polish and balance...:)

Deus Ex was given the time. DX:IW was denied. The rest is history...:rolleyes:

quelvar

05-19-2008, 12:24 AM

whoa!!!

Just looking at that makes me wanna play it:lmao:

guru7892

06-12-2008, 08:21 PM

Tracer Tong

06-15-2008, 12:47 AM

It pretty much seems like he's the one who painted it... Judging by his style and other paintings.

Nice find!

Scadvid

06-28-2008, 07:12 PM

hey for what its worth:
http://barontieri.deviantart.com/art/DX3-Lab-86296926

the guy looks legit but I didn't do any heavy background into the guy. But from his post we can infer that they have the map being worked on or even completed. It's an easy assumption that they have an alpha build and some test maps up. due to the timing its still a little sketchy in regards to dx10 textures but I would put money on yes.

still this is all speculation based on inferances.

logic has failed us before.

IF they made the lab that large, that would mean the building is going to be as large. IF the building is that large, we get a good idea of the size of the level, too. Could we be seeing a level large enough to actually run around in (loved Liberty Island just for this reason -- space).

The big question will be will it all be night time again, too? I see lights, but inside there will be lights on 24/7.

Some much speculation. Sigh.

Necros

06-29-2008, 05:47 PM

Nice find guru7892, Thierry Doizon is an employee of Eidos Montreal, so this is legit.

Digerati

07-22-2008, 05:32 PM

IMO this screenshot portrays Deus Ex perfectly. Really looking forward to more!

rhalibus

07-23-2008, 03:48 PM

The big question will be will it all be night time again, too? I see lights, but inside there will be lights on 24/7.

I wouldn't mind an all night DX3--the darkness always seemed part of the covert theme of Deus Ex, even though some of it was probably to reduce memory-hogging background scenery...:)

HouseOfPain

08-05-2008, 10:40 AM

I got the "Rene quoted me once" badge. Happy days =)

DXeXodus

08-07-2008, 04:16 AM

Something new has popped up on the net regarding this image:

piece of concept art from the new Deus Ex has emerged online, depicting a high tech laboratory.

The lab is fairly non-descript, but there are a few details PC Zone's Will Porter just pointed out to us.

If you look closely, there's an augmentation canister in the background and to the right is a mechanical hand and some legs hanging up. The symbol on the floor also looks familiar, but we can't remember where we've seen it.

The image was posted on the deviant art page of a concept designer known as BaronTiERi.

The artist claims to have worked on Prince of Persia and Assassin's Creed. Whilst we can't confirm this, his internet presence is quite extensive. We'd be surprised if this was an elaborate fake.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=194767

:scratch:

AaronJ

08-07-2008, 07:17 AM

This is where analyzing gets unfair. "LOOK WHAT I POINTED OUT!" says some ******* from a magazine, and he gets the credit.

Larington

08-07-2008, 09:06 AM

I see your http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=194767 and raise you a http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/06/rumours-of-new-deus-ex-3-artwork-greatly-exaggerated/

jcp28

08-07-2008, 02:31 PM

I was hoping it would be something new.....:mad2:

Grey

08-13-2008, 12:40 AM

Wow, looks cool. Just cant wait for the release.

raz3r

08-13-2008, 09:21 AM

That's really cool :eek: I want to visit studios too :mad2:

Vadim Verenich

08-13-2008, 10:47 AM

A new age of Deus Ex 3, yes. Too bad you won't be able to see it. At least, until 01.01.2010

Vadim Verenich

08-13-2008, 11:09 AM

Seven art concept shots can be found on a photo Mr.Jordan_A has kindly provided us with. Just look at left upper corner of image that depicts Mr.D'Astous punching the training bag (without gloves!) and try to perform a pixel-hunt.

El_Bel

08-13-2008, 11:31 AM

Oh-my-gods you are right!!!

Vadim Verenich

08-13-2008, 12:06 PM

Oh-my-gods you are right!!!

As a professional detective, i have a bad habit to ivestigate all available evidence.

René

08-14-2008, 04:32 AM

I thought Aaron would've long ago analyzed those, blurry though they may be...

DXeXodus

08-14-2008, 07:53 PM

That is strange because the piece of art that we have been talking about is on that wall, so it must be official then :)

AaronJ

08-15-2008, 03:13 PM

I thought Aaron would've long ago analyzed those, blurry though they may be...

I'm a fanboy, not a photo specialist.

And if I was to do it, it would probably only be a forum post.

Larington

08-16-2008, 12:15 AM

Just went back to that image and had a look, unfortunately theres very little that can be made out partly because of zoom/scaling issues but also because the image has clear signs of having been jpeg'd (Visible around the edges of the word bubbles as distortion in the white segments).

I can see what looks like more environments and a character concept, possibly also some equipment, but with this image quality the equipment could be anything from a belt with various slots for a characters tools to some kind of futuristic vehicle.

Wait, could there be sketches there of how the character concept might have mechanical augmentations built in?

No, no, no, no, no, I must not contribute to the hype train, I must not contribute to the hype train...

I wonder if DX3 will explore the issue of how a mechanically augmented agent might - over the cause of successive modifications - start to lose his/her humanity.

El_Bel

08-16-2008, 02:22 AM

About the character in black. I dont know if he is a character at all!! All black with something white on his chest? The legs are only half his body, and he is very slim. I dont know what he/it is. Our best bet is the weapons!! But i cant make anything of them either!!! But by what i saw i think they are a bit futuristic. I hope i am wrong. And I saw a red barrel!! Yes there will be barrels in DX3!!

gamer0004

08-17-2008, 09:03 AM

Can't we just send the image to Interpol and let them sharpen the images? They can do that, you know.

Necros

08-17-2008, 09:28 PM

Every employee has got his own small toy (nice screensaver)
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4459/dsc0024xe3.jpg
I WANT that screensaver! :mad2: :D René, please, can you guys release that? Like very soon? Pretty Please? :D
About the game itself, I can tell you right now: it looks really really great. First of all, from what I gathered, many issues have been taken into account and it looks the community has played a role in it since their worries are really taken seriously.
Moreover, the early echoes from real players (including fans) are extremely positive.
One last thing, if you're looking for freedom in DX3 you should not be disappointed, it will be a key element.

Concerning the news releases, you need not worry... all in due time and regularly.
That sounds great! :cool: But could you give a hint about when can we expect the next news release? :whistle:

DXeXodus

08-17-2008, 09:45 PM

That sounds great! :cool: But could you give a hint about when can we expect the next news release? :whistle:

Sometime between now and the final release date. ;)

Necros

08-17-2008, 11:47 PM

Sometime between now and the final release date. ;)
You are evil. :( :lol: And how about that screensaver? http://img200.imagevenue.com/loc532/th_48053_angel_122_532lo.jpg

MyImmortal

08-17-2008, 11:49 PM

I love the screen saver.
Perhaps EM will release it as a free download for fans soon. ;) :cool:

René

08-18-2008, 05:01 AM

I WANT that screensaver! :mad2: :D René, please, can you guys release that? Like very soon? Pretty Please? :D

We will. Or something similar. Though I cannot say how soon it will be unfortunately.

That sounds great! :cool: But could you give a hint about when can we expect the next news release? :whistle:

Things are taking longer than expected, that much is true. But I don't want to say much more right now. Sorry.

René

08-18-2008, 05:05 AM

And I saw a red barrel!! Yes there will be barrels in DX3!!

I think barrels and crates are required by any first-person shooting game. I believe John Carmack signed that into law when he created Spear of Destiny, Wolf3D, and Doom...

gamer0004

08-18-2008, 06:45 AM

So you know of it?
Really I just can't stand this! Mortals like me know about this game already
<:(
But at least there will be news... And TNM is so far away as well...

Larington

08-18-2008, 10:37 AM

A game with the scope and size of DX3 taking longer than expected, even in areas like news releases doesn't surprise me at all, I'm sure anyone with half a brain will know thats a good sign so no worries I think.

jcp28

08-18-2008, 01:04 PM

^
Let's hope it's a good sign. There have been plenty of hyped games that have been in development for years that end up disappointing in the end(hint, Daikatana, hint)

DXeXodus

08-18-2008, 08:01 PM

I am glad that they are taking their time with this game. So long as that extra time is productive and leads to good content then I am happy.

Necros

08-19-2008, 02:34 AM

We will. Or something similar. Though I cannot say how soon it will be unfortunately.
:thumbsup: Good news. :) Though I think you should be able to release it soon because it's not showing anything from the game, it's "just" a cool Deus Ex 3 logo. :D

MyImmortal

08-20-2008, 11:14 PM

^
Yeah, come on Rene... give us that screensaver. :p :D

NewHorizon

08-21-2008, 06:57 PM

DXeXodus

08-21-2008, 09:37 PM

I was an Ion Storm forum Moderator during the Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3 releases, believe me...it was a very rough place after the games were released.

I can only imagine what that must of been like. It's tough enough being a mod for DX3. :)

MyImmortal

08-21-2008, 11:09 PM

Best of luck to all of you in Eidos Montreal. As a proud Canadian (Prince Edward Island), I have high hopes that your team will turn this series around. I was an Ion Storm forum Moderator during the Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3 releases, believe me...it was a very rough place after the games were released...but I have faith again. :)

I'm very hopeful that your team will be able to pull the Thief series together as well. Not sure if you've heard of us, but I'm a member of The Dark Mod (http://www.thedarkmod.com) team. We're making a Thief inspired mod with the Doom 3 engine. :)

Wow, yeah, that must have been a scary time... lots of gamers on the rampage there, hehe. :eek: :D

OMG, as a member of the Thief Dark Mod team, I humbly bow before you! :)
I have nothing but the utmost praise for the Thief fan mission community.... thanks to people like you, I can still enjoy taffing around.
Long live Garrett and all fan mission makers! :cool:

NewHorizon

08-22-2008, 08:52 AM

OMG, as a member of the Thief Dark Mod team, I humbly bow before you! :)

Haha, no need for that. :) We're just happy to give back to the community and help it grow.

Oh, and before anyone gets any ideas...I'm not trying to get a job. :) I'm already self employed as a graphic designer, I like my independence...and we have a game studio right here in town if I ever feel like getting a job in the industry.

Necros

08-22-2008, 09:29 AM

I'm very hopeful that your team will be able to pull the Thief series together as well.
Do you mean Thief 3 wasn't good? If you do, I disagree, I loved that one too.
Not sure if you've heard of us, but I'm a member of The Dark Mod (http://www.thedarkmod.com) team. We're making a Thief inspired mod with the Doom 3 engine. :)
Hurry up, will ya'? :rolleyes: :D Just kidding, great to have you here! :) And I really like what you guys are doing, big respect! :thumbsup:

NewHorizon

08-22-2008, 09:37 AM

Do you mean Thief 3 wasn't good? If you do, I disagree, I loved that one too.

It was good, just not 'as good' as what came before...but I have faith Eidos Montreal will remedy that.

MyImmortal

08-28-2008, 02:23 PM

Haha, no need for that. :) We're just happy to give back to the community and help it grow.

I'm sorry, but you guys are truly worshipped, so credit where its due! :p
*throws rose petals at NewHorizon's feet too* :D

Necros

08-29-2008, 01:59 AM

It was good, just not 'as good' as what came before...
Hm, I wouldn't say that. :) I loved Thief 3 just as much as I did the first two games. :cool:

DXeXodus

08-29-2008, 02:26 AM

The step made between Thief 2 and Thief 3 was one of a much higher quality than the step between DX1 and DX2 IMO.

Noceur

08-29-2008, 08:33 AM

The step made between Thief 2 and Thief 3 was one of a much higher quality than the step between DX1 and DX2 IMO.

I certainly agree. With the exception of shoebox levels, missing rope arrows (and lower difficulty, I believe some felt) Thief 3 was very true to its franchise.

ewanlaing

08-29-2008, 04:52 PM

Larington

08-29-2008, 11:00 PM

Credit where its due, Theif 3 worked very well, it had a good conclusion to the series and was more or less faithful to the previous games. Though I also share some of the contension around the switch from climbing ropes to climbing gloves, I don't think it overtly harmed the game whilst allowing developers to come up with different ways of giving a purpose to a climbing tool without first having to come up with the inclusion of slightly immersion breaking 'climbing point hints' so I think I can see what they were doing with it, whether or not I agree with the decision is moot.

Larington

09-03-2008, 10:14 AM

Heh, theres something I forgot about, I always did think it was nice to see barrel being used as heat source for bums and so on rather than just as conveniently placed explosive fuel barrels <TM>.

gamer0004

09-03-2008, 10:49 AM

I was wondering... Was the artwork leaked or released?

ewanlaing

09-03-2008, 02:58 PM

I think it was released by the artist(e) but i could be wrong.

van_HellSing

09-03-2008, 03:07 PM

It was unofficially released. Basically, the artist put it in his gallery along with the comment that it's for Deus Ex 3. People were not sure at first if he was actually working for Eidos, but it's confirmed now.

LuciusDeBeers

09-06-2008, 03:12 PM

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/482/img0028xm7.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0028xm7.jpg)

That is all...for now :D

pewbeng

09-06-2008, 03:38 PM

Can't wait.

I just hope they don't just do a 4-sites-feature picking the teaser apart. :D

JerichoMccoy

09-06-2008, 03:39 PM

...

Dude, a month to wait on information!? Are you serious!?! And you just show us ONE PICTURE?!

...

I wonder if there are any hidden messages in that one as well...

LuciusDeBeers

09-06-2008, 04:18 PM

...

Dude, a month to wait on information!? Are you serious!?! And you just show us ONE PICTURE?!

...

I wonder if there are any hidden messages in that one as well...

One picture is all there is I'm afraid. It doesn't mention being an exclusive though, possibly meaning there could be info released prior to October.

JerichoMccoy

09-06-2008, 04:33 PM

Well, I do see that there are somethings one can figure out from that one picture.

Please take a look at Exhibit A:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4550/deusex3spoilerpq6.jpg

As you can see, my observations are noted but I know there maybe some other things I have missed out.

Like how they say "The conspiracy is revealed" and in the background showcasing naked fetus...

Does that mean DX3 will include nudity, a first for the Deus Ex franchise? More observations with theories of extraordinary proportions will have to be induced...

van_HellSing

09-06-2008, 07:53 PM

I've never seen a clothed fetus, you know.

Gizmostuff

09-06-2008, 09:17 PM

At least we have a date on the new info. Thx op!

Tracer Tong

09-06-2008, 11:34 PM

more info yaaaaay!:nut: :nut: :nut: :D

Larington

09-07-2008, 12:15 AM

This has probably already occured to folks but I'll say it anyway, the empty space will almost certainly be taken up by other news-worthy stories, just minus a picture to go along with the headlines.

Looks like I'll buying a PC Gaming mag other than PC Gamer UK this year then.

Stealth edit: Also, this is where we'll find out if any of the entries in the controversial headlines thread are actually true.

MyImmortal

09-07-2008, 02:14 AM

I just hope the magazine article actually does reveal much more than we already know, or have guessed upon... :)

Clucky

09-07-2008, 04:26 AM

I can not say PC zone is the pinnacle of gaming journalism, I don't have high hopes. But hopefully that'll mean I'm pleasantly surprised on the 9th. :)

Yay for pessimism! :D

jordan_a

09-07-2008, 04:36 AM

Please remember to post the scanned pages for those who don't live in the UK.

MyImmortal

09-07-2008, 04:39 AM

Please remember to post the scanned pages for those who don't live in the UK.

Might do.... what's it worth? :whistle:

:p :D

jordan_a

09-07-2008, 04:40 AM

You want a revelation? :nut:

El_Bel

09-07-2008, 05:16 AM

I am holding an Omar hostage. Scanned pages for his life? :rasp:

Absentia

09-07-2008, 08:15 AM

I'm so happy I'm English right now. I'm buying that.

René

09-07-2008, 09:18 AM

As you can see, my observations are noted but I know there maybe some other things I have missed out.

Like how they say "The conspiracy is revealed" and in the background showcasing naked fetus...

Does that mean DX3 will include nudity, a first for the Deus Ex franchise? More observations with theories of extraordinary proportions will have to be induced...

Awesome analysis! The big question is: why is there empty space on the right-hand side? Very astute observation!

René

09-07-2008, 09:20 AM

Please remember to post the scanned pages for those who don't live in the UK.

I don't see that being a problem! You might not even need a UK magazine in the end...

gamer0004

09-07-2008, 10:38 AM

I don't see that being a problem! You might not even need a UK magazine in the end...

Oooh Rene's got information for us!!!!

jordan_a

09-07-2008, 11:44 AM

I don't see that being a problem! You might not even need a UK magazine in the end...That's more like it!

AaronJ

09-07-2008, 12:53 PM

I Am Now In Complete Isolation Until The 9th, When I Have Finished Analyzing Every Aspect.

STOP CAPS BLOCKING ME

jordan_a

09-07-2008, 01:01 PM

How can you be more isolated than you already are? ;)

AaronJ

09-07-2008, 01:03 PM

Locking windows and doors.

Oh, and I have a promise: If anyone tries to beat me out of the analysis for the new information, I solemnly swear that I will troll you for the rest of your life.

JerichoMccoy

09-07-2008, 01:19 PM

Locking windows and doors.

Oh, and I have a promise: If anyone tries to beat me out of the analysis for the new information, I solemnly swear that I will troll you for the rest of your life.

Ooo, my private Troll! If I brush your hair or rub your belly button, do you also give good luck?

El_Bel

09-07-2008, 01:24 PM

AaronJ

09-07-2008, 02:53 PM

Ooo, my private Troll! If I brush your hair or rub your belly button, do you also give good luck?

No. Bad luck.

That sounds like a challenge!!!

It most certainly is not.

DXeXodus

09-07-2008, 07:45 PM

This is the kind of news we have been looking forward to for a long time. We shall finally get our dirty little hands on some new DX3 information..... hopefully. :D

IH-Denton

09-08-2008, 05:43 AM

nice photos...
Wish you luck, eidosmotreals, with this project. We was wating Deus Ex 2 throughout four years with the same feelings of rapture. Just do what you do. And do it best. And we will be always wating forward for Deus Ex 3 no matter what.

Frog

09-08-2008, 06:34 AM

Sweet!!!

NewHorizon

09-08-2008, 08:49 AM

To be honest, I preferred Thief 3 to Thief 2, and perhaps even the original. It seemed like they really captured the essence of the series in that third game, even though it was a different developer.
And I did prefer the climbing gloves to rope arrows. Don't hate me!

Hmmm, but Thief 1 and 2 established the essence of the series. ;) I can't agree with you sadly. The world they created in TDS was far more generic looking, it could have been any medieval fantasy world. There was hardly a trace of the steampunk world established in T1 and 2, it was just generic fantasy. I think they just captured more of what you were personally looking for in a game...for me, not so much. I wanted something which updated the visual style of the original games, and retained the complexity and depth.

MyImmortal

09-08-2008, 01:20 PM

Just found this short review about the upcoming magazine:

By Pete Haas: 2008-09-08 11:05:31

Deus Ex 3 Details Coming Soon

About nine months after the teaser trailer hit the interwebz, more information about Deus Ex 3 is about to be revealed. A gaming mag over in Jolly Old England has a story about the highly anticipated sequel in an upcoming issue.

According to a post on NeoGAF forums, the next issue of PC Zone will have a story about the third installment in the conspiracy shooter series. According to the PC Zone advertisement, the issue will hit newsstands on October 9th and presumably subscribers will get their hands on the issue a week or so beforehand. So expect some solid info on the game soon-ish.

The only things really known at this point are that it'll be for Xbox 360, PS3, and PC and it might be a prequel to the other two games. It'll be nice to finally catch a glimpse of a screenshot or two. In case you didn't catch it, here's the teaser trailer again.

For source, click HERE (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Deus-Ex-3-Details-Coming-Soon-12095.html).

So, anyone a UK subscriber? :)

Absentia

09-08-2008, 01:31 PM

The only things really known at this point are that it'll be for Xbox 360, PS3, and PC and it might be a prequel to the other two games.

Look away, Aaron...
Bah, hardly a "confirmation" anyway. but yeah, can't wait!

El_Bel

09-08-2008, 01:38 PM

it might be a prequel to the other two games.

I might start believing in god..

casT-

09-08-2008, 03:25 PM

Well, if there are ghosts involved i would say: Ghosts in their Shells if you know what i mean:)

Im a GITS fan it's true but i love Deus EX too, so no hard feelings.

DXeXodus

09-08-2008, 08:13 PM

Thanks for posting that MissD. :thumbsup:
I'm sure there will be information all over the place once the subscribers get their hands on an issue.

Exciting times lie ahead.

J.CDenton

09-09-2008, 12:46 AM

News at least! It was about time! Or maybe we're too much in a hurry. So in a few time we'll have a better idea about how DX3 will look like. Can't wait to see that!

pewbeng

09-09-2008, 12:56 AM

DAMN YOU, BRAIN!

My mind apparently converted "Oct 9th" to "Sep 9th". Imagine my disappointment checking the forum today.

Awrrhawrr. Shoot me now.

van_HellSing

09-09-2008, 12:59 AM

Boom! Headshot!

DXeXodus

09-09-2008, 01:26 AM

DAMN YOU, BRAIN!

My mind apparently converted "Oct 9th" to "Sep 9th". Imagine my disappointment checking the forum today.

Awrrhawrr. Shoot me now.

You poor thing. Only 30 more sleeps. :D

*Double Kill*

Romeo

09-09-2008, 03:39 PM

I've never seen a clothed fetus, you know.
Saw one at this party once... With flaming penguins.

AaronJ

09-10-2008, 09:11 AM

The irony of releasing the news of a Canadian game in a UK magazine.

van_HellSing

09-10-2008, 09:33 AM

It's not an "exclusive", other magazines will have the info too.

Augmented Cactuar

09-10-2008, 09:36 AM

Also, Steve Butts on IGN PC's podcast hinted at very big news about a new title coming in the next month. *puts on speculation goggles* It could be Deus Ex 3 :)

K^2

09-10-2008, 09:48 AM

The irony of releasing the news of a Canadian game in a UK magazine.
Well, Canada is still under Royal Crown of United Kingdoms, so it isn't that odd. Besides, Eidos HQ is located in UK as well. So it all makes some sense.

Unstoppable

09-10-2008, 10:31 AM

AaronJ

09-10-2008, 03:54 PM

Well, Canada is still under Royal Crown of United Kingdoms, so it isn't that odd. Besides, Eidos HQ is located in UK as well. So it all makes some sense.

My comment was referring to availability thar.

ewanlaing

09-11-2008, 12:14 AM

Hmmm, but Thief 1 and 2 established the essence of the series. ;) I can't agree with you sadly. The world they created in TDS was far more generic looking, it could have been any medieval fantasy world. There was hardly a trace of the steampunk world established in T1 and 2, it was just generic fantasy. I think they just captured more of what you were personally looking for in a game...for me, not so much. I wanted something which updated the visual style of the original games, and retained the complexity and depth.

That's a fair point. I wasn't really looking out for the steampunk aspect so much. There was some of it in the Hammer levels (like the clocktower) but obviously, it wasn't too apparent compared to the previous games.

Red

09-11-2008, 03:57 AM

Someone who lives near PC Zone post as Eidos employee and say you want to check up on the issue that will feature DX. Take some pics in a mini spy camera and proceed toward the exit point.

If anyone gets in your way take them out but choose wisely. Goodluck Agent.

BTW I was jk :p.

Well, actually, It'd be easier just to wait for the October 9th :P

jordan_a

09-11-2008, 04:23 AM

Please stick this thread before october! :D

DXeXodus

09-11-2008, 04:34 AM

Complete chaos is going to break out in October. Please, guys, just be nice when the information comes out. I don't want more headaches from raving forumites.

gamer0004

09-11-2008, 06:22 AM

Complete chaos is going to break out in October. Please, guys, just be nice when the information comes out. I don't want more headaches from raving forumites.

Yet another clue for prequel to IW, sequel to DX! There would be no chaos if it'd just be a preuqel...

Romeo

09-11-2008, 07:24 AM

Someone who lives near PC Zone post as Eidos employee and say you want to check up on the issue that will feature DX. Take some pics in a mini spy camera and proceed toward the exit point.

If anyone gets in your way take them out but choose wisely. Goodluck Agent.

BTW I was NOT jk :p.
OH OH! I have Eidos/Deus Ex 3 Apperal, AND a mini-spy camera! And I could take out a few Brits without a second thought - I'm Irish! I'll do it!

Romeo

09-11-2008, 07:26 AM

And I'll sticky this up until Rene or Exodus undo it.

JerichoMccoy

09-11-2008, 07:25 PM

Complete chaos is going to break out in October. Please, guys, just be nice when the information comes out. I don't want more headaches from raving forumites.

...Better pack up the Tylenol.

DXeXodus

09-11-2008, 07:48 PM

I have already started sharpening my bayonet. :p

Romeo

09-11-2008, 10:00 PM

Haha, Exodus, see, I'm prepared. I have some T3's still kicking around. Ain't no headache big enough to stop a pair of those babies. =D

JerichoMccoy

09-12-2008, 07:19 AM

If you guys want me to be your personal bodyguard, hey, I can bring over my friend EJ and his dog.

http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/ewj4.jpg

Just let me know and I'll prep the Cow Launching Pad.

Larington

09-12-2008, 09:23 AM

I suspect this is where we find out its going to be a prequel with universal ammo and no skills system, sending three separate arms of the forum community into outrage, only ending when the mods/admins give up and lock the whole forum.

Just saying in an 'in before the lock' sort of way. :D

Romeo

09-12-2008, 11:11 AM

If that happened I'd probably light myself on fire and jump off the roof, which would be enough to seriously injure me, but not kill me. Then I'd sue Eidos for leaving me no other options. With all the moneys I made, I'd buy the Deus Ex franchise and make the next one myself.

Or I might just complain hysterically and not buy from Eidos again, but I like my first option better.

general kane

09-13-2008, 07:30 AM

wow i cat wait ( he enters his tank and gets to the pc zone headquarters ) dude ur the coolest member in the whole of eidos .:thumbsup:

Dan_Hibiki

09-13-2008, 09:21 AM

jordan_a

09-13-2008, 10:42 AM

This magazine will surely confirm what I saw in Montréal and know: this game will rock! ;)

JerichoMccoy

09-13-2008, 03:02 PM

This magazine will surely confirm what I saw in Montréal and know: this game will rock! ;)

Just wanting to know if you wanted to be quoted on that because if it does not...

http://www.nightmarearmorstudios.com/images/nightsuit/nightmare1a.jpg

We will find you...

Bloodwolf806

09-13-2008, 07:26 PM

Nice. Can't wait 'till all is revealed.

DXeXodus

09-14-2008, 07:42 PM

This magazine will surely confirm what I saw in Montréal and know: this game will rock! ;)

I believe the same thing. This is going to be the comeback kid of the DX series.

Romeo

09-15-2008, 10:22 PM

Just wanting to know if you wanted to be quoted on that because if it does not...

http://www.nightmarearmorstudios.com/images/nightsuit/nightmare1a.jpg

We will find you...
Man, if you're going to send an assassin, can't you send the hot terminator chick? Or Angelina Jolie?

And no I would not sell the license to Herr Uwe Bell. I would gladly give it to him...

..Kidding.

Romeo

09-15-2008, 11:01 PM

I guess it should be mentioned as well that cp[ying the article and posting it here is not only against Eidos rules, but infringement of copyright. Be cool, support the magazine and don't be uncool.

Mr. K

09-16-2008, 12:38 AM

I guess it should be mentioned as well that cp[ying the article and posting it here is not only against Eidos rules, but infringement of copyright. Be cool, support the magazine and don't be uncool.

But I'm not in the UK! How will I get my precious DX 3 info? :eek:

DXeXodus

09-16-2008, 12:57 AM

Someone will post all of it.. then you will copy it and paste it onto your PC... then us diligent mods will be all mod like, but then you have it already. :D

van_HellSing

09-16-2008, 03:00 AM

But I'm not in the UK! How will I get my precious DX 3 info? :eek:

PC Zone doesn't have an "exclusive" for the info. It will be in other gaming magazines that get released that month too.

DXeXodus

09-16-2008, 04:19 AM

I am guessing that it will also be revealed in some online publications which will can be linked to.

JerichoMccoy

09-16-2008, 06:36 AM

Sure it's just an online gaming site...

...led by the Illuminati! You fiends!

Romeo

09-16-2008, 08:06 AM

Yes, PC Zone frequently posts important articles on their website. Check there if you're outside the UK (Like myself). If not, I'm sure an insider will tip off IGN.

Augmented Cactuar

09-16-2008, 10:01 AM

If not, I'm sure an insider will tip off IGN.

Oh I will ;)

LatwPIAT

09-16-2008, 01:20 PM

Hacker Creed: "Information wants to be free."

There are laws against scanning and posting the pages (Rightfully so.) However, there is nothing to prevent people from posting summaries and the alike here.

Romeo

09-16-2008, 08:27 PM

Valid point. Or... Or... You could simply go to their site for god's sakes. lol

ThatDeadDude

09-17-2008, 03:54 AM

Ooooh... looks like I chose a good time to break a long period of inactivity and see if any news had been forthcoming. Yays...

Romeo

09-17-2008, 06:00 PM

22 days, and you'll have what you want.

DXeXodus

09-17-2008, 07:49 PM

Possibly even less days if we are lucky.

JerichoMccoy

09-18-2008, 05:50 AM

"All I have to ask is one question: Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

Romeo

09-18-2008, 06:48 AM

Cyber-punk. =P

Still, in a worst case scenario, three weeks isn't too bad to wait.

general kane

09-18-2008, 07:37 AM

u know i am curently dead traying to fight the urge to wait , maybe ill to PC ZoNE break into the office and steal them :whistle: .

pewbeng

09-18-2008, 09:34 AM

You should. I don't want to encourage that, but.. Well. Go ahead. Please. Really. I BEG YOU.

gamer0004

09-18-2008, 09:39 AM

Cyber-punk. =P

Still, in a worst case scenario, three weeks isn't too bad to wait.

It is. I'm in Turkey in three weeks so it will be FOUR WEEKS FOR ME.

MaxxQ1

09-18-2008, 12:21 PM

Well, after a quick perusal of the November issue of PC Gamer (just arrived in the mail today), there's nothing in there about DX3, and nothing was mentioned about it being in the next issue either. Not even a vague hint about something special in the next issue.

So, whatever the big to do is, it's not made it into THAT magazine yet.

Bloodwolf806

09-18-2008, 05:45 PM

So will news/screens/vids be hitting the Internet about the same time as the mags?

Romeo

09-18-2008, 06:18 PM

It is. I'm in Turkey in three weeks so it will be FOUR WEEKS FOR ME.
Yeah, 99.9% of the time, they'll release top articles online at the same time as their paper counterparts. If not, I'll turn a blind eye to a quick summary of the article. But only if they don't post it online.

ThatDeadDude

09-19-2008, 04:41 AM

It'll be online somewhere... I've seen scans go online even when the exclusives have gone to magazines in countries whose languages I can't even read...

AaronJ

09-19-2008, 09:52 AM

Everybody better post links here right away...

Romeo

09-19-2008, 02:37 PM

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/sites/pczone/

Check up October 9th, would be my guess.

general kane

09-22-2008, 07:29 AM

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/viewer.php?mode=product&id=188686

i havent seen that before , anyways the website isnt going to display the preview till the magezine spells out the preview ,

personally i think that GFW should do the preview .

gamer0004

09-22-2008, 08:09 AM

Romeo

09-23-2008, 09:03 AM

Again, in the worst-case scenario and you check their website and they don't have it listed on the 9th, and you don't live in England, then (AND ONLY THEN) I'll allow someone to summerize it on this thread.

El_Bel

10-01-2008, 08:11 AM

October first today... Any news yet? :D

Romeo

10-01-2008, 01:58 PM

No, we need five more days until it's the 9th. DUH.

AaronJ

10-01-2008, 02:32 PM

Subscribers get it tomorrow, right?

Romeo

10-01-2008, 04:22 PM

No, suscribers get it in 24 hours from now.

(Just joking, I have no idea when they do, but I think that October 9th is October 9th, whether you pay them or not).

El_Bel

10-02-2008, 05:32 AM

I just had my copy!! Thank the gods i subscribed!! Its a prequel, but not the kind you expect!! You play as Sir Christian Denton. A knight templar at the time of the crusades. Your vision is still augmented though.
Here's a screenshot!!

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/Dentonas/Templar_Knight.jpg

:eek: :eek:

van_HellSing

10-02-2008, 06:49 AM

This is shopped.
I can tell from some of the pixels
and having seen a few shops in my time.

-anonymous poet

3nails4you

10-02-2008, 07:03 AM

AaronJ

10-02-2008, 10:56 AM

general kane

10-02-2008, 11:02 AM

ur damn right it isnt :lol:

its a Grand prequel

but wait is it a true image ?? i mean glasses didnt exist in the crusades :eek: .

van_HellSing

10-02-2008, 11:10 AM

O RLY?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Hugh_specs.jpg

Detail of portrait of Hugh de Provence, 1352.

general kane

10-02-2008, 11:13 AM

the crusades werent in that time period ****

and about the glasses there werent black sun glasses :whistle: .

van_HellSing

10-02-2008, 11:18 AM

About the time period, close enough. Especially considering this is a game, and doesn't have to be 100% historically accurate.

Also, sunglasses were in use in China in the 12th century or possibly earlier. So maybe Jacques Christian d'Enton travelled to China.

general kane

10-02-2008, 11:21 AM

it may be true but thy are a bit futuristic and besides the game would look silly if thy mke him use sun glasses and augumant his eyes ( or if the prequel explains time travel ) :nut:

van_HellSing

10-02-2008, 11:24 AM

Ah, but you learn early on the that the protagonist is actually JC Denton, who is trying to access his genetic memory via the Animus system. The sunglasses are just a visual anomaly in the simulation.

El_Bel

10-02-2008, 11:28 AM

"We never let realism get in the way of fun and coolness." says the Eidos Montreal's general manager Stéphane D’Astous. "The player character has been exposed to some magic ritual and various natural drugs that augmented his vision..."

I ask Romeo for tolerance. It is not the all the article, just a very small part of it. Please dont erase it!!

general kane

10-02-2008, 11:28 AM

yeah i know but it wouldnt be realistic ifu know what i mean .

3nails4you

10-02-2008, 01:22 PM

I especially love the placement of the guy's right ear...it's kind of in front of the side of his head...

van_HellSing

10-02-2008, 01:43 PM

Have you noticed the text at the bottom left of the picture? The one that says

EIODSMONRTEAL.COM

After some in-depth research, I was able to decypher the hidden message :cool:

It's an anagram for EIDOSMONTREAL.COM

I wonder what that means...

El_Bel

10-02-2008, 01:51 PM

The phaonmneal pwoer of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.

The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wtihout a porbelm.

Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?

JerichoMccoy

10-02-2008, 05:30 PM

What the heck just happened to El Bel's lettering? He's been H4X0R3D!!!1!!

That just proves Eidos Montreal will got at great lengths to protect their secret project!

They'll lobotomize you! http://www.dvdtown.com/images/displayimage.php?id=6194

Romeo

10-02-2008, 07:06 PM

Hey... That guy was at a party last night... I remember the dialogue now...

Partiers: "CHUG! CHUG! CHUG!"
Chairguy: "Guys, no more, I don't feel so well..."
Partiers: "PUKE! PUKE! PUKE!"

DXeXodus

10-02-2008, 08:00 PM

Man this thread is weird! :eek:

I almost died at the whole knights Templar thing. Haha!

Romeo

10-02-2008, 08:17 PM

lol! Altair Denton.

Deus Ex: The Eagle and the Apple.

Larington

10-02-2008, 10:39 PM

That'd be such a bizarre bait & switch if Deus Ex 3 also turned out to be Assassins Creed 2 at the same time, heck, it'd probably work too once you've learned to ignore the purist folks who would be real upset to see the DX universe messed with like that. :rasp:

DXeXodus

10-03-2008, 02:25 AM

I think if this was the case I would first be shocked, then I would laugh, then I would curl up in a corner and cry.

As a mod I would not stand a chance against you lot, being the raging mob that you are. :)

general kane

10-03-2008, 06:33 AM

^ yes u cant :rasp: .

Romeo

10-03-2008, 05:21 PM

TWIN POWERS UNITE! FORM OF: Concrete Donkey.

Luminous Path

10-04-2008, 02:06 AM

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198546&site=cvg

Apparently shows details of the DX3, stating that it will be a prequel, the main protagonist 'Adam Jensen'. Improved graphics, goes without saying, layered plot and multiple ammo so far as good. 'Call of Duty-style auto-heal' doesn't inspire confidence in my opinion. If anyone has a PC Zone subscription you may have the upcomming issue already, which promises some screenshots. What I'm really asking is what does everyone think? Have you got any more info?

rhalibus

10-04-2008, 02:17 AM

PC Zone mags are hitting the front doors as we speak. Let the flood begin.

dark_angel_7

10-04-2008, 02:20 AM

Was just about to post this! :p

Cant wait. Looking forward to DX3. Though Auto-healing does sound a bit...ermmm....crap. :o

LuciusDeBeers

10-04-2008, 02:25 AM

I'm a subscriber and got my issue today.

First things first- I can't post any pics as my Internet access is down. Sorry. The mag is out on Thursday.

Some snippets:

It's a prequel set in 2027
You play Adam Jensen, a security officer working for a biotechnology firm.
Part of the game is set in Shanghai
The game uses a Renaissance style art blended with cyberpunk (looks great)
There'll be around 20 augmentations
The game is third person but will switch perspective for stealth
Hacking involves a mini game (a la system shock, bioshock)
There is hand to hand combat
You can punch through Walls to gran enemies by the neck
You van bungee jump off ledges
The developers are trying to be loyal to the first game
Skill points return and are expanded
Universal ammo has been ditched
Multiple endings

I highly recommend picking up the mag, the artwork is fantastic.

jordan_a

10-04-2008, 02:27 AM

Hallelujah

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 02:32 AM

Part of the game is set in Shanghai
Great!
The game uses a Renaissance style art blended with cyberpunk (looks great)
Is it somewhat close to Deus Ex 1-style? I really has to, if it wants to be a prequel set in 2027...
The game is third person but will switch perspective for stealth
Are you kidding!!? Please, tell me you are kidding...
Hacking involves a mini game (a la system shock, bioshock)
Hmm...

Skill points return and are expanded
Universal ammo has been ditched
Multiple endings
Excellent!

dark_angel_7

10-04-2008, 02:34 AM

Loving the hacking stuff. Always wanted DX1 to have that stuff. I hope its an FPS view. I think it would be waaaay better that way. At least an option if its not going to be the main view. :o

Larington

10-04-2008, 02:37 AM

The game is third person but will switch perspective for stealth

Seems mostly ok, but I do wonder if theres a specific gameplay reason for why we would be playing in third person except for stealth, surely it'd be better the other way around? Bit confused on that one.

LuciusDeBeers

10-04-2008, 02:37 AM

Great!

Is it somewhat close to Deus Ex 1-style? I really has to, if it wants to be a prequel set in 2027...

Are you kidding!!? Please, tell me you are kidding...

Hmm...

Excellent!

3rd person for stealth as it now uses a metal gear style cover system as opposed to shadows.

The game is set during a more affluent period than the first game, before world economies declined. It's a departure in style but it looks great.

jordan_a

10-04-2008, 02:40 AM

Seems mostly ok, but I do wonder if theres a specific gameplay reason for why we would be playing in third person except for stealth, surely it'd be better the other way around? Bit confused on that one.Yeah, as a matter of fact I got the feeling it's not really settled yet.

sea

10-04-2008, 02:47 AM

Well, great. Just ******* great.

Third-person? Cover system? Magical auto-regenerating health?

This makes universal ammo look appealing, by comparison.

Thanks for taking a giant **** on the best game franchise you've ever had, Eidos. You've alienated me, and you've alienated all of the fans that wanted the game in the first place.

I'm gone.

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 02:49 AM

Wow, thanks for the update! :cool:
It all sounds promising and I can't wait to see the artwork.

Yeah, my only reservation is the playing at third person perspective... :o

Tyrant Worm

10-04-2008, 02:52 AM

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198546

Cover system?

No skills for weapons?

REGENERATING HEALTH?!?!?!

I really hope that isn't the case. If I want to play Call of Duty, I'll play Call of Duty. One of the brilliant aspects of the original Deus Ex was localized damage - the regenerating health ala CoD ruins that.

HouseOfPain

10-04-2008, 02:52 AM

Ergh....

I come out of hiding for months.. and I am greeted by Third Person... and cover.. and... *blehs* auto-heal...?

Paint me pessimistic. :(

EDIT:... please prove me wrong Eidos. I don't like to be a fanboy, (Like NMA is to Fallout) but please.. PLEASE don't mess this up. I'll be like your bestest consumer ever if you make this work.

And really GET OFF THE AUTO-HEAL HHSDAFHAS!!!

jordan_a

10-04-2008, 02:52 AM

Third-person? Cover system? Magical auto-regenerating health? This makes universal ammo look appealing, by comparison.It's way too soon to make any conclusion. We don't know anything about how it will be implemented, if it's a temporary feature or available only for the easiest level.

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 02:54 AM

It's way too soon to make any conclusion.
Right.

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 03:00 AM

It's way too soon to make any conclusion.
It isn't, really. The fact that game-play elements have once again been simplified is an indication of the overall design philosophy that underpins the game. Invisible War didn't just show lobotomized gameplay mechanics, remember. It was a symptom of a larger problem (design philosophy).

LuciusDeBeers

10-04-2008, 03:00 AM

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 03:07 AM

I refuse to judge anything on such a thin basis of information. I have my doubts but as far as I am concerended I think there's still enough room left for a great DX-game. At least when they offer alternatives (like 1st Person/3rd Person or the option to disable Auto Heal etc.).

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 03:07 AM

There's no auto heal that I've read about. Please read the article before jumping to wrong conclusions."What's more, stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows, and damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal."
Or, conversely, you could read the article before telling people to read the article? Just because you missed something, doesn't mean people are jumping to conclusions.

HouseOfPain

10-04-2008, 03:12 AM

You know that tingle you get in your heart and head when you think about what Deus Ex 3 could become?

Well that feeling is gone by a sad empty pit in my gamer stomach. Third Person? Auto-healing? COVER-SNEAKING??

My.. my heart...

my heart :(

why, Eidos..? :confused: :scratch: :(

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 03:13 AM

Or, conversely, you could read the article before telling people to read the article? Just because you missed something, doesn't mean people are jumping to conclusions.

But is it actually in the printed article by PCZ (I really don't know)?

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 03:14 AM

HouseOfPain

10-04-2008, 03:15 AM

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 03:15 AM

Help me understand. :p ...can't...

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 03:16 AM

But is it actually in the printed article by PCZ (I really don't know)?

Hah, well I certainly hope it is (well, I don't - but you know what I mean), because it would be an example of horrific journalism from that website if it wasn't in it.

HouseOfPain

10-04-2008, 03:18 AM

I DONT UNDERSTAND!!

Why auto-HEAL!!!!!!

The individual body part healing system in Deus Ex is advanced even to TODAYS standards. The only game I see with it coming out is Fallout 3.

Ugh! This totally ****s on a "Regeneration" aug too...

Man Eidos. Now I feel like a big fat Fanboy.

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 03:19 AM

ERGH!!!!

This has made my morning really really ... sad...

I just made a casket and I put my Deus Ex Jewel case art cover inside it.

Cremation will begin in the afternoon after playing the funeral song. :(
Oh, come on... don't be such a drama queen! And nobody will be able to damage the brilliance of a game already released anyway.

LuciusDeBeers

10-04-2008, 03:19 AM

Or, conversely, you could read the article before telling people to read the article? Just because you missed something, doesn't mean people are jumping to conclusions.

I was Reading the PC Zone article. They call it a regenerating damage model. Honest mistake.

The third person view is also used for combat like gears of war
Inventory management is back

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 03:21 AM

I am confused though... :confused:

If it is a PREQUEL, how come the lead character has so many augmentations at his disposal? :eek:
Maybe I'm not understanding the timeline correctly?
Only I thought JC was one of the first to have this ability in DX1 - set in a time supposedly AFTER this prequel.

Help me understand. :p
I think it has something to do with fundamentally (deliberately? No. That implies intelligence) misunderstanding the setting.

Probably goes rather nicely with things like this: "Augmentations[...]ranging from 'bungee jump' tentacles that shoot from your back and anchor to a wall when you jump off a building, and the ability to punch through walls to grab enemies in neighbouring rooms." All in the while, combat mechanics being simplified to that of a standard FPS. Trends begin to emerge.

HouseOfPain

10-04-2008, 03:26 AM

Oh, come on... don't be such a drama queen! And nobody will be able to damage the brilliance of a game already released anyway.

You're right, I'm only on my 40th playthrough. What should I do now? Passive run with Albino J.C. while putting no points into anything and only using "Aqualung" as my aug?

I'm running out of ways to play it.

LuciusDeBeers

10-04-2008, 03:30 AM

Or, conversely, you could read the article before telling people to read the article? Just because you missed something, doesn't mean people are jumping to conclusions.

I think it has something to do with fundamentally (deliberately? No. That implies intelligence) misunderstanding the setting.

Probably goes rather nicely with things like this: "Augmentations[...]ranging from 'bungee jump' tentacles that shoot from your back and anchor to a wall when you jump off a building, and the ability to punch through walls to grab enemies in neighbouring rooms." All in the while, combat mechanics being simplified to that of a standard FPS. Trends begin to emerge.

JC and Aul were the first nano augmented agents- these augs are mechanical

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 03:33 AM

JC and Aul were the first nano augmented agents- these augs are mechanical

Aha, yes... of course.
Thank you, I'm understanding my confusion now. :)

SOMEONE PLEASE POST UP SOME ART SCANS!! :D

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 03:35 AM

JC and Aul were the first nano augmented agents- these augs are mechanicalThat may well be true. The point is that an agent latched to a building with tentacles, or putting a fist through a wall to strangle an enemy are not exactly scenes I would identify with Deus Ex.

ZenAbra

10-04-2008, 04:08 AM

I'm a subscriber and got my issue today.

The game is third person but will switch perspective for stealth

Awww crap. Say it ain't so. :mad2:

Tecman

10-04-2008, 04:12 AM

Awww crap. Say it ain't so. :mad2:

As I understand it, it's the other way around.

I don't know, I kind of like the sound of 16th Century Futuristic Cyberpunk Metal Gear Stealth Action, even if it's vastly different.

Anyways.

http://shrani.si/f/n/eq/34HqV1vw/deusex3-1.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/1f/bn/2f2eDNSd/deusex3-2.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/3w/VU/Dml3fX7/deusex3-3.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/2L/MA/3HX6QNiq/deusex3-4.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/2y/ua/z0d0zsT/deusex3concept.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/V/mf/1f1AAt62/dx3concept0.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/W/o8/3ua4qcUr/dx3concept1.jpghttp://shrani.si/f//a8/4kkywWTp/dx3concept2.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/K/T1/2YF5XcVK/dx3concept3.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/3O/fC/RCJtZ7O/dx3concept4.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/h/Km/1jd8WszZ/dx3concept5.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/3B/Rm/45nWG6H5/dx3concept6.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/t/XV/2mnbyr7T/dx3concept7.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/44/4J/3vsdYnbJ/dx3concept8.jpg

( thank http://www.flickr.com/photos/seniath for these )

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 04:15 AM

http://shrani.si/f/n/eq/34HqV1vw/deusex3-1.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/1f/bn/2f2eDNSd/deusex3-2.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/3w/VU/Dml3fX7/deusex3-3.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/2L/MA/3HX6QNiq/deusex3-4.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/2y/ua/z0d0zsT/deusex3concept.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/V/mf/1f1AAt62/dx3concept0.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/W/o8/3ua4qcUr/dx3concept1.jpghttp://shrani.si/f//a8/4kkywWTp/dx3concept2.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/K/T1/2YF5XcVK/dx3concept3.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/3O/fC/RCJtZ7O/dx3concept4.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/h/Km/1jd8WszZ/dx3concept5.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/3B/Rm/45nWG6H5/dx3concept6.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/t/XV/2mnbyr7T/dx3concept7.jpghttp://shrani.si/f/44/4J/3vsdYnbJ/dx3concept8.jpg

( thank http://www.flickr.com/photos/seniath for these )

OMG! Thank you!

I'm actually really loving what I see! :cool:

LuciusDeBeers

10-04-2008, 04:22 AM

the game is first person but switches to third for the cover system. Apologies for error- I'm typing on a phone :o

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 04:23 AM

the game is first person but switches to third for the cover system. Apologies for error- I'm typing on a phone :o

Spot on, then!
Thanks for clearing up this misinterpretation. :cool:

Luminous Path

10-04-2008, 04:24 AM

ZenAbra

10-04-2008, 04:25 AM

As I understand it, it's the other way around.

Thank you for that reassurance. Is there any mention of the inventory system?

And thank you for providing my first glimpse at Deus Ex 3. I may take issue with some of the information released so far, but visually they're really on to something here. It looks fantastic!

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 04:28 AM

No offence Eidos Montreal but those screenshots (thanks for posting) look a bit Bioshock-esque. It worked in that context but not for Deus Ex.

Third person? How is that staying true to the DX genre?

I know it is perhaps a bit premature to pass judgement, however, if we are picking holes in the new game's structure already -via screenshots and concept art- how will the end results fair?

Jumping from buildings with tentacles and smashing walls, for me, no thanks, give me old school, I'll go back to the Liberty Island docks thanks. Jensen can shove that tentacle where the sun doesn't shine and od on zyme.

DX was a great game but we should keep open-minded about the graphic style of DX3.

It is NOT third person in-game - this matter cleared up in a previous post.

I'm sure there is much more to the plot/story than there is to what tools are at your disposal. THAT is the important thing for me, personally.

Don't know... but we shouldn't really be negative in our judgement just because we loved DX1. I intend to play the game first and then give my critique. :)

Luminous Path

10-04-2008, 04:28 AM

It looks nice and shiny but will it work on the same level as the DX genre?

Luminous Path

10-04-2008, 04:30 AM

Will definetly give it a chance, it is disappointing when the concepts elucidated in the article don't perhaps fit thought (in my opinion)

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 04:31 AM

Everyone, shimmy over to this thread for updates:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=80708

:cool:

van_HellSing

10-04-2008, 04:40 AM

KTHXBAI, my interest in the game is lost. Who am I kidding, it looks awesome.

All this is giving me multiple personality disorder.

I hate it. I love it.

Luminous Path

10-04-2008, 04:41 AM

lol

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 04:46 AM

Damn, wish we could read ALL the editorial... this scan is a 'teaser' in its own right, hehe. :D
I can't wait for the mag to hit the retail shelves.

Wish I could read more detail on the augmented hand.
Tecman, are you a dab hand at fast touch-typing? :p

I'm making out the writing for the city complex:

"SHANGHAI 2027: the rich live above, the poor below".

That makes perfect sense in a world divided... ;)
This also gives endless possibility for rich in-game environment, imo.
A chance to experience a bright, affluent world and a dull, grey poverty-stricken counterpart?

Either way, corruption will exist and a story can be told. :cool:

dxfan94

10-04-2008, 04:58 AM

YEESSSS ok im happy and i know some people wont like this but i liked universal ammo it was soo awesome and futuristic. i like all the rest i dont mind the auto heal but it takes away from gameplay. maybe this is them saying its gonna be even harder to beat. It couldnt have been a sequal cause in IW it shows either the ending of the world or something else soo yeah. I CANT WAIT!

dxfan94

10-04-2008, 05:04 AM

OMG! Thank you!

I'm actually really loving what I see! :cool:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO i dont want it to look like bioshock... i want deus exstyle. F*** :mad2:

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 05:11 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO i dont want it to look like bioshock... i want deus exstyle. F*** :mad2:

No need to single me out... we are all entitled to our opinions, lol. :rasp:

Anyway, it isn't "Bioshock" and neither is it Deus Ex "again"... time to move on. :p

Besides, are you actually looking at the "IN GAME" images?
They look very DX style to me, just much more rich in texture - which is a good thing, imo.
Don't let your eyes be drawn to the sketches/art work as they do not actually represent in-game graphics as they will appear.

J.CDenton

10-04-2008, 05:20 AM

At least some news! THe picts are awesome! I pretty like that new style, even if it lacks the "coolness" of Deux Ex 1. The Bioshock effect maybe. We could call that "Baroque-Cyberpunk" or "Baroquepunk" but it looks like nice. It reminds me Ghost in the Shell 2 in some ways. And we have to remember that we're BEFORE DX1. So maybe at the time the design of the places were pretty much different, closer to what we are doing actually (in France for example we still use very baroquesque places as places of work). In 30 years it may have evolved into something much darker. If we have to make a good story, we have to take in account the differences during the time and in 30 years designs can evolve strongly, especially with the technology we have nowadays. The "underground systems of the future" looks faithfull to the original atmosphere of DX1 for example.

I expect levels to be much larger (and now looking like you're walking in some stupid hallway) and I also expect much from the Soundtrack.

For now I like what I see and I keep hoping that it'll not be some DX2-like disappointment. So guys keep up the great job and please: MAKE IT LONG!

;)

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 05:28 AM

So guys keep up the great job and please: MAKE IT LONG!

;)

I second that. :cool:

A very long game with a complex storyline, yes please. :)

D_X

10-04-2008, 05:36 AM

http://shrani.si/f/3O/fC/RCJtZ7O/dx3concept4.jpg

look at this image closer, you will notice that the 2nd small image (the one with the writing "Always with the vats..." or is it rats?:scratch: ) is actually the same concept art as the original one that was released a couple of months ago, just from another angle. ;)

Tecman thank you for posting this images, it looks very cool.

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 05:42 AM

Hmm... visually that looks like a game I could fall in love with. It doesn't really look like a prequel to DX 1 though - more like a alternative version of that world. Great but unnecessarily redesigned. We'll see how it feels.

jordan_a

10-04-2008, 05:49 AM

Screenshots are really nice.

I've got some concerns though about the hand combat (combos?? :eek: ) and the sneaking system (icons = too easy and MGS like) but I still think this game'll rock, if it's difficult enough and the music is great.

Now I understand why during my stay in Montréal René told me several times "you should play Bioshock / have you been playing Bioshock?" ;) (artwise)

Well I did, and it's great indeed, so will DX3 be.

Renaissance style coming from French and Canadians, that's bold, fresh and brilliant. :D

van_HellSing

10-04-2008, 05:52 AM

Now I understand why during my stay in Montréal René told me several times "you should play Bioshock / have you been playing Bioshock?"

Now you got me seriously worried. Did he mean the sort of strong art direction or did he mean the gameplay? Because Bioshock's gameplay SUCKS BIG TIME.

jordan_a

10-04-2008, 05:54 AM

Art.

van_HellSing

10-04-2008, 05:56 AM

Ah, sweet relief.

WhatsHisFace

10-04-2008, 05:57 AM

The graphics look fantastic, the art direction is brilliant.

Unfortunately, the gameplay changes they're making aren't appealing in any way.

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 05:59 AM

Screenshots are really nice.

I've got some concerns though about the hand combat (combos?? :eek: ) and the sneaking system (icons = too easy and MGS like) but I still think this game'll rock, if it's difficult enough and the music is great.

Now I understand why during my stay in Montréal René told me several times "you should play Bioshock / have you been playing Bioshock?" ;)

Well I did, and it's great indeed, so will DX3 be.

Renaissance style coming from French and Canadians, that's bold, fresh and brilliant. :DHow poetic then, that BioShock represents a significant step backwards from the decade old franchise it is imitating - one that Warren Spector, no less, had a small part in.

J.CDenton

10-04-2008, 06:05 AM

Now we have the picts, videos would be great. What about some Gameplay videos like there had for Half Life 2? We could see the characteritics from the main engine and several game mechanisms in action.

Defres

10-04-2008, 06:07 AM

Damn. :(

Those pictures remind me awfully alot of Doom 3 and Bioshock, so damn claustrophobic and linear!!
Why is this a fetish in todays FPS styled games?
F*** those damn claustrophobic and linear spaces, give us more freedom and more to search and roam around in. (let us ALSO run the streets, sewers, whatever) and more different surroundings, all I saw there was some hightech labs, doom 3-like room surroundings and tight spaces. Not like this.

I also hope that macho looking terminator günther clone guy isn't the main character we play. thats just plain retarded and is reassuring my belivies of a brainless shoot'em up game..

jordan_a

10-04-2008, 06:10 AM

give us more freedom and more to search and roam around in. Don't worry, mate.

van_HellSing

10-04-2008, 06:12 AM

About open spaces, give them time. It's easier to build an interior than a city section, maybe they haven't gotten around to that yet. We do know that the engine they use works nice for large, open spaces.

And that "macho looking terminator günther clone guy" isn't the protagonist, read the comments in the photos. I'd wager the protagonist is the guy with the smoke.

J.CDenton

10-04-2008, 06:15 AM

The guy reminds me Cassidy from the Preacher comic.

Can we expect to see peoples fom DX1 in DX3? Like a non-augmented Gunther...

ewanlaing

10-04-2008, 06:15 AM

I've got to say, I'm pretty disappointed.

First, it's a prequel, which was the one thing I REALLY didn't want to happen.

Then we've got this third person cover stealth system, and hand to hand combos, not to mention the ridiculous looking character with the big gun, auto healing and even the mention of boss battles (check the screenshot captions).

All in all, pretty much entirely what I didn't want.

Graphics look nice though.

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 06:15 AM

I'd wager the protagonist is the guy with the smoke.

Yeah, or at least one of the main (lower city?) characters.
He looks cool. :cool:

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 06:23 AM

Yes, he looks like DX.

van_HellSing

10-04-2008, 06:26 AM

I'm quite sure he is indeed the main character (Adam). After all, he gets pretty much the whole page for himself.

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 06:52 AM

[Post Removed]

van_HellSing

10-04-2008, 06:55 AM

Care to read the whole thread? There was an error in the initial report, most of the game is in first person, third person is used for sneaking.

D_X

10-04-2008, 06:58 AM

I'm quite sure he is indeed the main character (Adam). After all, he gets pretty much the whole page for himself.

He might be the predecessor to the MJ12 Commandos! Just a thought.

CarloGervasi

10-04-2008, 07:07 AM

What is it with game companies? *sigh*

They're doing it wrong, again. The sad part is that they've already got the perfect game designed FOR them, they only need to introduce new content to that framework. They just can't leave well enough alone. Regenerating health? FPS weapons? For Christ's sake. It looks like Eidos still doesn't get why people loved the original. Why in the hell can't this company leave the franchise that used to bring home "Best RPG of the Year" awards as a damn RPG? It's not a FPS, it's not a TPS, it's an RPG. I just don't get it.

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 07:10 AM

[Post Removed]

CarloGervasi

10-04-2008, 07:11 AM

They never will understand. From this point, I can't help but believe that Deus Ex 3 will ultimately fail to live up to expectations and instead appeal to the people who love to watch stuff explode. If I'm proven wrong, then great. But expecting anything good at this point would be throwing myself into another potential hype trap.
That's pretty much how I feel. The entire industry makes the most ******* boneheaded decisions sometimes. They want every goddamn game to just copy whatever is "in" at the time. Halo popularizes first person shooters for the masses? Turn Invisible War into a FPS with RPG elements. Gears of War popularized third person shooters? Turn Deus Ex 3 into that. It's so, so ******* stupid. It's "turn Shadowrun into a Counter-Strike clone" stupid. What kind of an idiot do you have to be to do this twice? Did they not notice the difference between how the first and second games sold?

D_X

10-04-2008, 07:12 AM

http://shrani.si/f/1f/bn/2f2eDNSd/deusex3-2.jpg

This shot too is in the same lab as the original concept art. Looks like the scientists just build him a brand new arm and he's trying it out for the first time.:)
"Do I look god punk?"

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 07:15 AM

[Post Removed]

Lucifer

10-04-2008, 07:16 AM

LeatherJacket

10-04-2008, 07:20 AM

Ooh great artwork. Especially Shanghai looks great. It would be great to see gloomy environments in its lower parts and a refreshing new style in the upper parts. Especially I hope this game can pull off long view distances—Shanghai would look great (especially in rain :D). Can't wait to see high res digital versions of these.

I also like the "in your face" augmentations. Augs with lots of moving parts / morphs looks cooler than magic like nano tech :)

I think people should realize that they would have most likely loved the original Deus Ex just as much if not more if it had better artwork and different style. We must give them the artistic freedom at least :).

Lucifer

10-04-2008, 07:25 AM

By the way Shanghai look greatTTTTTTTTT
http://shrani.si/f/44/4J/3vsdYnbJ/dx3concept8.jpg

Freddo

10-04-2008, 07:26 AM

Right now my impression is a mixed one. There are some things I like and some things I'm hesitant to.

Playing with biomechanical augmentations isn't nearly as cool and awesome as the nanotechnical augmentations. To decide to not use a skill based system is also something I think is in the wrong direction. Deus Ex should be skillbased.

I do not care about auto-heal, though. There could be some good ingame explaination for this, thanks to the augmentations. Still, it does remove the neat immersive moments when one sneak in the alley with low health and is scared to meet anyone next cause one doesn't have a medkit or whatever. But then again, those moments didn't really exist in the first game either, as medkits were to be found everywhere and then there was a health augmentation later down the road.

Like the pics posted by Tecman very much. They look quite "Deus Exish" to me. Except that biomechanical hand.

What I'm most curious about is quality of the level design, but I reckon I won't know the answer to that until I got the game in my own hands. But this is one of the major things that made the original Deus Ex so great (and the first two Thief games).

Oh, and it's great to hear that Sheldon Pacotti is working on it.

Larington

10-04-2008, 07:31 AM

I suspect I'll wait for the article to get on shelves and will probably end up posting a fuller response to what I see/read when I've taken the time to go through the info.

I am deeply concerned about even a partial move to 3rd person gameplay as well as the risk that DX3 might be more of an action adventure shooter than I'd personally like.
The cover system might work if it makes sense, but I don't think I'm particularly keen on it if it has any similarity to MGS or Assassins Creed where you have some silly clock/symbol telling you whether its safe to come out of cover or not - Its completely unnatural, especially when compared to the dialogue based "must've been my imagination" system of DX1.
And as for the auto-healing system, I'm having big doubts, regardless of implementation - There was something very satisfying about the way health & healing was managed in DX1, it'd be a shame to see that completely over-ridden by something inspired by one of these other big name shooters.

Still, I'm glad to learn that the skills system is being brought back and updated a bit, but I can't say I'm keen on a complete removal of weapon based skills - I'd agree the penalties for being poorly skilled were a tad severe for certain weapons, particularly the mini-crossbow, but to remove it completely is a decision I'm not overly comfortable with.

WhatsHisFace

10-04-2008, 07:33 AM

The game has the Deus Ex look, in some sense, but there are no RPG elements, as the article makes it seem.

Deus Ex was so strong in the RPG genre, it was much more of an RPG than an FPS. I don't know why they think mimicking Bioshock is a good idea when they should actually be mimicking Deus Ex.

Maybe they feel that it's shooters that sell these days. Well, so do RPGs. And since it's much harder to find a good RPG, the best ones usually do better, while equally good shooters can tend to be overlooked (what ever happened to all those war shooters?).

van_HellSing

10-04-2008, 07:36 AM

So how exactly is this missing an RPG element based on the article? You have stats, you have inventory management...

WhatsHisFace

10-04-2008, 07:38 AM

So how exactly is this missing an RPG element based on the article? You have stats, you have inventory management...

Weapons have stats. You modify your weapons to fit your "play experience" which of course assumes that you want your "play experience" to be one where you're using weapons to begin with.

LuciusDeBeers

10-04-2008, 08:05 AM

the guy with the gun is called Barrett and is not the lead character. The badass looking guy with the cigarette is. Another detail is the way you interact with NPCs. Now you have to judge your decisions base on body language. Combat is now independent from the skills system. You can play the game as a straight shooter or as an rpg with this system.

René

10-04-2008, 08:06 AM

It's out! Woot! OK, I will now go through this entire thread and try to clarify some points so that there is no confusion.

The game is third person but will switch perspective for stealth

No. The game is FIRST person, but automatically switches to third person for some contextual actions. You as the player do not have the ability to swap between views...it's a first person game but there are times where we want you to see Adam doing cool things.

Hacking involves a mini game (a la system shock, bioshock)

Not quite. Hacking is a major pillar of gameplay and is certainly not a mini game. (Sorry Bioshock) Hacking in Deus Ex 3 is a significant gameplay option which you can modify with augmentations if that's the way you develop your character. Our hacking is well beyond a "mini game" and is really freaking cool.

René

10-04-2008, 08:14 AM

If it is a PREQUEL, how come the lead character has so many augmentations at his disposal? Only I thought JC was one of the first to have this ability in DX1.

Adam has mechanical augmentations. Paul and JC were the first of the nano augmented. That's why it makes sense as a Prequel...remember Anna and Gunther were mechanically augmented. And with mechanical augmentations, you will actually be able to see Adam look awesome whereas JC looked pretty normal.

Wunderbar_007

10-04-2008, 08:21 AM

I Am Soo Excited!!!!
:D

René

10-04-2008, 08:23 AM

"SHANGHAI 2027: the rich live above, the poor below".

That makes perfect sense in a world divided... ;)
This also gives endless possibility for rich in-game environment, imo.
A chance to experience a bright, affluent world and a dull, grey poverty-stricken counterpart?

Either way, corruption will exist and a story can be told. :cool:

The story and conspiracy elements are every bit a Deus Ex game. It's awesome. The writing team at EM is made up of many talented and experienced people. And did you notice the Sheldon reference...?

René

10-04-2008, 08:28 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO i dont want it to look like bioshock... i want deus exstyle. F*** :mad2:

It doesn't look like Bioshock! Bioshock was heavily influenced by the Art Deco style of the 1930's.

Deus Ex 3 combines near-future elements (i.e. Cyberpunk) with a Renaissance/Baroque twist. There are really good reasons for this but I will leave it for the magazines to explain... :)

I pretty like that new style, even if it lacks the "coolness" of Deux Ex 1. The Bioshock effect maybe. We could call that "Baroque-Cyberpunk" or "Baroquepunk" but it looks like nice.

We call it Cyber Renaissance.

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 08:35 AM

I really hope the developers truly know what they're doing with this game. I really do. Too many times have I been let down by a sequel/prequel to a game that I loved so much, that I honestly would be devastated to have it happen to my all-time favorite game.

Deus Ex is much more than just a shooter with RPG elements and a good story. It was an experience that made people wonder, very seriously, if the world would one day end up like that, the Statue of Liberty bombed as secret organizations use their knowledge to take control of humanity.

It's a lot to live up to, so I sincerely hope I get an experience like I did with the first title. I apologize for my negative outburst, but it just unsettles me that much.

I place my trust in the guys behind this one, especially for the ones dedicated to making an immersive, realistic future world that I can be absorbed into.

Icarus AI

10-04-2008, 08:42 AM

Are there scans of the whole article (not just of the pictures) anywhere?

jordan_a

10-04-2008, 08:45 AM

René can you tell us about the health system?

René

10-04-2008, 08:46 AM

René

10-04-2008, 08:48 AM

Don't let your eyes be drawn to the sketches/art work as they do not actually represent in-game graphics as they will appear.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The magazines this round are showing a lot of conceptual stuff, but the in-game graphics are very very similar.

http://shrani.si/f/3O/fC/RCJtZ7O/dx3concept4.jpg

look at this image closer, you will notice that the 2nd small image (the one with the writing "Always with the vats..." or is it rats?:scratch: ) is actually the same concept art as the original one that was released a couple of months ago, just from another angle. ;)

Um, that's an in-game shot. I have no idea why PC Zone decided to make it so small. But it's in-game. I know, because I took it. :)

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 08:51 AM

Judging from the claims and the in-game shot, it's a damn good thing I'll have a much better PC before this even releases.

Larington

10-04-2008, 08:55 AM

Don't forget the crowbar, if HL1 & DX1 are anything to go by, its a sure sign of quality. :D

Wunderbar_007

10-04-2008, 08:55 AM

René can you tell us about the health system?

Yea, could please tell us more about it?

thenext0

10-04-2008, 08:56 AM

Looks incredible! I'm beyond excited. Seems like the misunderstandings about health regeneration and 3rd person gameplay spilled over to a few news sites. I was very happy to find out the truth in this thread and calm my fears.

Looks like the guys behind this know and care about the fans of this series, and are doing their best to please us. Keep up the good work guys, and I look forward to learning more about the game as time goes on.

LuciusDeBeers

10-04-2008, 08:56 AM

Thanks Rene for the clarifications. It seems I've inadvertently given people the wrong impression about certain aspects of the game. Just shows you have to be very careful with your phrasing when communicating to such a passionate fanbase. I'm really looking forward to this game!

René

10-04-2008, 09:00 AM

The graphics look fantastic, the art direction is brilliant.

Unfortunately, the gameplay changes they're making aren't appealing in any way.

I don't want to say too much because I don't want the magazines getting pissed, but when it comes to gameplay, DX3 is very much a Deus Ex game.

It's still based around making decisions which have consequences, selecting from a multi-path, multi-solution approach in a non-linear space (think DX1 not Invisible War), and you're able to customize your character (Adam) as well as your weapons. DX3 is an action/RPG just like the first game.

3nails4you

10-04-2008, 09:01 AM

Adam has mechanical augmentations. Paul and JC were the first of the nano augmented. That's why it makes sense as a Prequel...remember Anna and Gunther were mechanically augmented. And with mechanical augmentations, you will actually be able to see Adam look awesome whereas JC looked pretty normal.

Hold up this thread here and now.

JC was the epitome of cool awesomeness. Let's get that straight.

Other than that, I'm gonna need to wait until I get the issue to comment. My main hope is that the conspiracy still ties in with that of DX. I want to be there when things happen that set into motion the events of DX1, such as something with the Illuminati, the beginnings of the formation of the Northwest Sucessionist Forces, something. I'm sure they'll keep all the conspiracy-ness, I just hope it still ties in...

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 09:02 AM

The one thing I want a full explanation of is the new Stealth system. The "cover" thing makes it sound like something akin to Metal Gear Solid. Would I be right or wrong on that assumption? *Holds out a microphone* :p

AaronJ

10-04-2008, 09:07 AM

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 09:09 AM

That still doesn't make sense as a prequel. The mech technology is superior to the mech technology shown in Gunther and Anna, and it's in the past.

And please tell me that SOMEONE has noticed that the bull**** Shanghai caption is ripped from Invisible War verbatim.

Honestly, it makes about as much sense as JC having such an extreme form of augmentation while everyone else, minus a couple significant plot characters, were roaming around with metal parts. I'd imagine Adam would be the equivalent of JC in this respect.

René

10-04-2008, 09:09 AM

F*** those damn claustrophobic and linear spaces, give us more freedom and more to search and roam around in. (let us ALSO run the streets, sewers, whatever) and more different surroundings, all I saw there was some hightech labs, doom 3-like room surroundings and tight spaces. Not like this.

I also hope that macho looking terminator günther clone guy isn't the main character we play. thats just plain retarded and is reassuring my belivies of a brainless shoot'em up game..

Defres, I totally understand what you're saying. In fact, that point was brought up for this first round of magazines but we made the decision to only tease for now and hold off on a lot of bigger stuff.

When it comes to freedom, having space to search and roam in, and to run the streets and sewers, don't worry - we have that. This was just a magazine first look. That stuff will come next time.

(I'm such a tease, eh?)

I also hope that macho looking terminator günther clone guy isn't the main character we play.

Fear not. That's a boss.

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 09:10 AM

Fear not. That's a boss.

Pft...I could take him. :whistle:

raz3r

10-04-2008, 09:11 AM

Finally some news about this game! Now I can't wait for more infos :mad2:

Larington

10-04-2008, 09:14 AM

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 09:16 AM

Yeah, on that note, I trust fighting the bosses won't feel arcade like, something which is more Walton Simons/Bob Page than it is, err, the end boss in Bioshock or that thing at the end of the first Star Trek: Elite Force game. In otherwords, I believe boss characters can work, but only when they aren't really contrived.

Same here. I liked being able to kill Simons in a nanosecond (pun intended) instead of getting into some major scripted fight or something. Of course, if handled well, something like that could work. Just a minor nitpick, really. Here, I'll simplify what I want the bosses to be: Fun.

René

10-04-2008, 09:20 AM

Does Dx 3 will have some big areas too moving like in Deus Ex 1 .I dont want >>loading>>doors>loading moving from doors to doors to next map and back again soo little arenas to shoot someone with sniperrifle like in invisible war.I would have big area's in DX3 to have choice to do something:)

This was one of the first things the team wanted to address so don't worry. Our tech supports streaming of data so the transition from indoors to outdoors will be seamless.

When it comes to map sizes, without giving too much away, think DX1 not Invisible War. :thumbsup:

LeatherJacket

10-04-2008, 09:25 AM

René, is the fetus from the teaser a character in the game? Is it Adam?

WhatsHisFace

10-04-2008, 09:30 AM

I don't want to say too much because I don't want the magazines getting pissed, but when it comes to gameplay, DX3 is very much a Deus Ex game.

It's still based around making decisions which have consequences, selecting from a multi-path, multi-solution approach in a non-linear space (think DX1 not Invisible War), and you're able to customize your character (Adam) as well as your weapons. DX3 is an action/RPG just like the first game.

If this game ends up pulling off those graphics on the gameplay design framework of Deus Ex 1, (being an RPG with a strong story and a very intricately designed world) I won't ever complain about the stealth system. :D

René

10-04-2008, 09:34 AM

René, is the fetus from the teaser a character in the game? Is it Adam?

I don't think it's a character in the game. I think it has hidden meaning...

René

10-04-2008, 09:36 AM

René can you tell us about the health system?

I've probably said far too much already. Ask me again in a month or so after all the magazines have come out if they don't answer this question.

D_X

10-04-2008, 09:38 AM

I also hope that macho looking terminator günther clone guy isn't the main character we play. thats just plain retarded and is reassuring my belivies of a brainless shoot'em up game..

"This chap is called Barrett and he keeps a big gun on his left arm":)
I was scared that he was the main character too for the exact same reason you were.

AaronJ

10-04-2008, 09:43 AM

Dan0rz

10-04-2008, 09:53 AM

raz3r

10-04-2008, 09:57 AM

Level design sounds awesome anyway! I really can't wait, can you tell us when more informations will be available? Maybe @ TGS? :D

Mindmute

10-04-2008, 10:01 AM

you've alienated all of the fans that wanted the game in the first place.
But, but... Can't I stay a little while longer?!

I actually like most of what I've seen so far, including the mechanical augs, I was sort of hoping that would be the case to begin with.

The only parts that leave me apprehensive are the 3rd person cover system and the auto-healing, but considering I like the way they went with everything else we've seen so far, I'll keep my hopes up.

I don't really get some of the people who are just excluding the possiblity of a very good game because it doesn't "look" or "feel" like Deus Ex (I don't even get who they managed to withdraw said conclusions from a few in-game screens and concept shots), I had hoped for Deus Ex3 to inovate the franchise a bit without going IW on us, not for it to be a DX1 clone with better graphics.

Disclaimer: I *do* love DX and have played it countless times, I *do* hate mindless shooters and I absolutely detested IW. Just before anyone gets any funny ideas of saying I'm not a proper DX fan.

SubTonic20

10-04-2008, 10:01 AM

It's just like one of my japanese animes!

If you wanted to avoid Invisible War comparisons, why did you put the most IW looking shots in your press pack? why does everything look more technologically advanced than it's going to in 25 years? What's with all the consoleization? why in fact are you doing exactly what you said you wouldn't?

not to get all NMA/Fallout 3 about this because i think NMA are unreasonable to be polite, but even they'll admit fallout 3 looks right, good grief.

Well, we never really got a very good look at the entirety of Deus Ex's game world, just the bleaker parts of it all: Hell's Kitchen (a very small portion of New York), Battery Park, an airport (Though the presence of jumbo jets still confuses me to this day. Why would they still have those that far into the future?), Hong Kong (Which is one of the most advanced places in the first game, giving a better outlook of the times), etc, etc, etc. Deus Ex 2 brought us in with a much closer look, introducing us to more advanced tech and everything. I could be wrong, but that's how I try to work it out.

Of course, there will always be inconsistences no matter how hard developers/writers try, especially given how unstable and imaginative the world in question is. I'll just swallow what's there and just focus on whether or not the game is awesome and, more importantly, fun and immersive.

ZenAbra

10-04-2008, 10:04 AM

René - One simple question I hope you're able to answer:

Will all the gameplay be centered around either combat or stealth, or will we have sections like the original game where we're interacting with NPCs and peacefully exploring urban environments (like during large chunks of Hell's Kitchen and Hong Kong in the original game)?

Like the original, will solutions have NPC-interaction related solutions in addition to combat, stealth, hacking & environmental solutions?

(Okay, I lied. That's a second question.)

René

10-04-2008, 10:19 AM

ZenAbra

10-04-2008, 10:24 AM

That was all I needed to hear. Thank you!

Absentia

10-04-2008, 10:31 AM

The sheer negativity here is really annoying me. Sure, I was one of the people who wanted a sequel, and the idea of a prequel did disappoint me within the first 10 minutes of hearing it, but after seeing the screenshots and (somewhat more importantly) reading what Rene had to say about the gameplay's direction, I've gained a lot more faith in the game.

It's safe to say that stylistically, DX3 is going to be quite a bit different from the first game. It's not realistic at all, and it probably never would have happened had it been Warren Spector or Harvey Smith's idea. The technology doesn't fit very well considering that some of the mech augs are way more advanced even than the nanotechnology that JC had at his disposal. But based on these things, can you honestly say that the game is going to suck?

René seems to know what he's talking about, he seems to be aware of the right kind of elements that need to be carried forward from the first game. It wasn't JUST the near-future setting that made the game's environment so compelling - it was the dark mood and the prevalence of the seedy underclass, and more importantly, the non-linearity, "illusion of choice" and more complex RPG-esque elements which made the game more dynamic.

Here's an example : MGS3 was a prequel. It made almost no sense technology-wise. it was supposed to be in the 1960s, and yet it looked even more advanced than the present-day MGS1. Was it a bad game? No WAY, in fact if MGS2 hadn't captivated me as much with its deep conspiracy-like storyline, then it'd probably be my favourite of the series.

As much as people want to believe it is, the Deus Ex 3 universe is not some kind of parallel domain that everything has to fit into. It's different to say, a book. A book can't contradict itself, or at least such mistakes will be much easily picked up and will significantly ruin the experience of reading it.

In the end, Deus Ex is just a game. Storyline no doubt is still a huge element, and I really hope it will deliver in that field, but try and respect it more as a game than a perfectly canonical addition to a story that's essentially already been told in peoples' minds. It's so much harder to make a great game as a developer when you work within the constraints of peoples expectations, than it is to branch out and be creative. I can understand the new design choices, and I actually rather like them.

AaronJ

10-04-2008, 10:33 AM

If you wanted to avoid Invisible War comparisons, why did you put the most IW looking shots in your press pack? why does everything look more technologically advanced than it's going to in 25 years? What's with all the consoleization? why in fact are you doing exactly what you said you wouldn't?

A penny for you sir.

Without saying too much (I'm sorry!), the social aspect of the game is extremely important. Do not fear.

Furious breakup poetry for you.

90%

ZenAbra

10-04-2008, 10:35 AM

Great post, Absentia.

I honestly wonder if much of the negativity is simply derived from misunderstanding and misinformation.

I see a lot of people in a lot of forums and blogs crying bloody murder over Deus Ex 3 right now, and it is almost entirely based on misinformation.

The third-person bit and the self-healing bit have spread like a wildfire.

spyhopping

10-04-2008, 10:39 AM

I really like the look of the concept art. I was apprehensive at first, but you have reassured me René.
My main hope that the game lasts for a satisfying amount of time. DX1's epic proportions helped make it really special

Dan0rz

10-04-2008, 10:43 AM

Without saying too much (I'm sorry!), the social aspect of the game is extremely important. Do not fear.

hey René, you might wanna let your art department know that the diamond age was set after snow crash, not before, i think they kinda missed that.

foxh0und

10-04-2008, 10:46 AM

Now i can sleep without any worries i can even wait for this game 2 years or more (just kidding) Mechanical Augmentation reminds me of Ghost in the Shell wich is good, 3rd person for sneaking like MGS if true then great, levels ala DX1 so whats not to like. :thumbsup: I just hope devs dont make empty promisses like STALKER CS devs(if some one plays stalker then he will know what i mean).

MyImmortal

10-04-2008, 10:49 AM

Thanks for answering questions, Rene, and putting some potential (and not good) rumours to rest. :thumbsup:

As always, still excited for DX3. :)

Defres

10-04-2008, 10:59 AM

Without saying too much (I'm sorry!), the social aspect of the game is extremely important. Do not fear.

Aka, you must hide your mechanical augs well in certain places and situations,(thus the leather robe has a true use now ;) ) got that. that's cool and actually pretty realistic.

René, I also want to thank you for your answers, I got abit jumpy because I thought we would mess up something great here, but thanks for a good and clear answer.
It is very rare these days that game companies are this open with their communities and I can assure you, the community will give back :)

I've had a small burden lifted off me even though I'm still not complitely satisfied especially by the fact that the game is a prequel but I'll get there hopefully.
I still gotta wait to see how the game comes out before I can truely calm down about these subjects :p

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 11:05 AM

hey René, you might wanna let your art department know that the diamond age was set after snow crash, not before, i think they kinda missed that.
Obviously that's not what they were going for. The world described in Diamond Age was pretty different from traditional Cyberpunk aesthetics (due to revolutionary technological and social changes -> post-cyberpunk). The DX3-concept art presented so far looks more like pre-cyberpunk and as if there was an unexpected golden age before the breakdown happened. I don't know where that shortlived "renaissance" should come from though. It's 2008 and the current situation already looks more like DX's 2052.

Edit: Hm, well Shanghai+2027=Golden Age is not that unlikely, actually. More western parts of the world should look a lot less wealthy though.

spyhopping

10-04-2008, 11:06 AM

I'm still not complitely satisfied especially by the fact that the game is a prequel

I had found it difficult imagining how a sequel could have worked. It might have been a bit messy

AaronJ

10-04-2008, 11:12 AM

I had found it difficult imagining how a sequel could have worked. It might have been a bit messy

Solid bull****. It would have looked the same. EXACTLY the same.

René

10-04-2008, 11:12 AM

René, I also want to thank you for your answers, I got abit jumpy because I thought we would mess up something great here, but thanks for a good and clear answer.
It is very rare these days that game companies are this open with their communities and I can assure you, the community will give back :)

I've had a small burden lifted off me even though I'm still not complitely satisfied especially by the fact that the game is a prequel but I'll get there hopefully.
I still gotta wait to see how the game comes out before I can truely calm down about these subjects :p

No worries. I'm super happy to be here, after all, I get to work on Deus Ex 3! For Eidos Montréal as a studio, the community is really important. I think we've demonstrated that already with Jordan's studio tour a little while back (the thread has disappeared, not sure what happened there...maybe Jordan can re-post the pics?), and we are going to be doing a contest based off some of these magazine scans. DXeXodus and Romeo have done a fantastic job organizing that and the details will be out soon.

Of course I'm here to answer questions but the magazines have to have the time to tell their stories and the Producer, Designer, Art Director, Narrative Designer, etc would kill me if I let loose too much info. A dead René doesn't help anyone, does it?

AaronJ

10-04-2008, 11:17 AM

I hate Cyber Renaissance crap. It's innovative, it's a good idea, but not for DX3!

gh0s7

10-04-2008, 11:18 AM

The art looks very nice. :)

Great news, that Uni-ammo is gone, and that Inventory management and the Skill system is back. Pity the latter won't influence combat, but that's the least of my worries, right now.
Also enjoying the Mechanical Augmentations feature, being an old GitS fan. ;)

spyhopping

10-04-2008, 11:19 AM

Solid bull****. It would have looked the same. EXACTLY the same.
Are we talking about the same thing? I thought the story line would have been tricky to pick up if it was going to be a sequel

Nathan2000

10-04-2008, 11:31 AM

Of course I'm here to answer questions but the magazines have to have the time to tell their stories and the Producer, Designer, Art Director, Narrative Designer, etc would kill me if I let loose too much info. A dead René doesn't help anyone, does it?

After all this information, you gave us, your life is our number 1 priority.

Now, when I know what I know, all those decisions seem perfectly reasonable. The designers wanted DX3 to fit into Deus Ex timeline (but also avoid a "soap opera" syndrome), so a prequel was the best solution. The artists wanted it to look fresh and original so they created a renaissance/cyberpunk mix. They messed up the continuity a little, but we can probably live with that.

Mindmute

10-04-2008, 11:40 AM

I am sincerely amused with the way some people jump to conclusions and have even resorted youtube to spread them already, even though we have so little information.

"Just like your labwork, Savage; Premature celebration" :rolleyes:

J.CDenton

10-04-2008, 11:47 AM

Personally I trust the developpers on that project. After all yes we would love to have a game much closer to DX 1. But thinking about it it's not bad to try to do something a bit different from the original game because we may fear that DX3 will be just some DX1 copycat with just new elements. So Cyber-Renaissance stuff...why not? May be great after all. After all Cyberpunk is not only dark and gloomy streets under a night sky with neons everywhere and guys in leather coats wearing mirroshades wandering here and there. Just read the Mirrorshade novel from Bruce Sterling and we can see that cyberpunk can be in the most different places and the most differents times possible.

I think the design will be really interresting. For now we only have some pictures from the magazine. I expect to see videos soon so that we can have some idea of what to expect. Gameplay videos like have been made for Half Life 2 would be great for example. And I expect a great soundtrack. But for now all we can do is to imagine how it will look like. If the guys from Eidos Montréal are planning to stay faithfull to DX1, that's a good thing then. We can expect something more faithfull and new at the same time. So I say wait and see before saying what is good and not in a game which is still being made.

And for the guys in Eidos Montréal, well message from a DX French fan: allez-y les petits, montrez leur ce que vous avez dans le bide! ;)

Tecman

10-04-2008, 11:55 AM

René, I really do hope you can elaborate on the health system as soon as you possibly can, since that's my main :scratch: about the project right now.

Igoe

10-04-2008, 11:57 AM

Ok. After reading the initial posts, seeing the initial artwork and scans, and reading the buzz all around, I think I'm ready to throw in my 2 cents. (like it matters)

My initial impression was:

Art style: Not DX. Glad to see the orange theme. I was hoping it'd carry over.

Character Design: Adam? Adam Jensen? Kind of a generic name....what happened to Emile :(. I hope that big surly guy in the front isn't Adam.

Gameplay: GOW style cover? Eh. RPG style elements? Thank god. Return of weapon specific ammo? Of COURSE they wouldn't make that mistake again. Deep down we ALL KNEW they'd bring back skills and ammo, didn't we?

Now, after seeing the corrections Rene has made, reading some larger scans of the pages, and having some time to take it all in, I have a revised set of impressions:

Art Style: I like it. Of course they're going to show the flashy stuff in the magazine, and why blow your entire load in the first few magazine articles? They had a great opportunity to invent a new style and mesh it with both the bright lights of asian influence in DX we all enjoyed, and the seedier, more gritty down to earth realism we saw in the beginning levels of New York.
Guess what? They DID. I think its brilliant. The game has style, and it will STAND OUT apart from action shooters, because, HELLO, its NOT JUST AN ACTION SHOOTER. In todays day and age, a game has to have a hook. With so many other games toting the RPG element, to survive, DX3 has to jump out at you as unique, and I think they've done it.

Character Design: So, it's my impression that we haven't seen Adam yet. All of those scans look like other characters. Glad to see Barrett is a boss type character like Hermann. That's GREAT. I'm a tad disappointed at the name 'Adam' but thats only because its not gender ambiguous, our hero will probably have a large Adam's apple. I had grown fond of a female protagonist, but that's me, and I'm sure we'll all grow to love who we're given. The name Adam implies to me an unforseen Eve, who I can only assume will be a hidden plot element that makes for good potential NPC relationships. Love the fashion style. Makes me think that things were good before they got bad. Remember, this is BEFORE DX. The Grey Death and such hasn't happened yet. Perhaps California is still attached to the US even! We're looking at society BEFORE the ship hits the fan, and that has GREAT potential for some in-game chaos. At this snippet in time people are still concerned with earthy things, and not struggling for survival. Doesn't mean they WONT be, just means things are normal in the beginning.

Gameplay: All Rene's corrections have repaired my griped. First person with third person pull outs to emphasize the cool factor. Very slick. I can see convos in third person OF COURSE, most action oriented augs pulling out into third like repelling and choking people through walls, and even mundane things like perhaps in-game scripted occurrences. It is my HOPE that this will tie into the RPG element by allowing Adam to change his appearance as the game progresses (installed augs, clothing and armor choice, perhaps even battle damage). All in all, very pleased with the evolving of the RPG elements.

You have to understand one thing. Time changes everything. Yes, things look more advanced in DX3 than they did in DX1, because 8 YEARS have passed. Technology is capable of a lot more now, and it would be silly to think they'd keep the tech as mundane as DX1's. Think about it. Highly advanced Mechanically augmented bosses, and the BEST they can do in combat is cloak, and perhaps take a bit more dmg because of a "bullet shield" No. This is future-tech and if DX1 had been made today they would have made the same choice. You do the BEST you can with what you've got and thats exactly what they're doing. They're evolving the idea because we're capable of so much more now. Deep down you know this is what needs to be done and the game will be better for it.

I am absolutely, positively, undeniably stoked for this game. My trust has been well placed, and I believe we have the makings of a masterpiece. Provided the games length is as good as its depth, this game will do very well. After seeing games like Oblivion, and how vast and open and long a game can be, simply by adding RPG elements that let the player define himself by doing things that are FUN, I see no reason why DX3 can't do the same.

Keep up the good work guys, and remember: Keep posting tidbits. Let The Dark Knight show you what good viral marketing can do!

ZenAbra

10-04-2008, 12:01 PM

Getting back to the particular details revealed in this article...

In the parts I can piece together from those photos of the magazine posted earlier, I think the third-person bit might be used in a manner very similar to Chronicles of Riddic (misspelled intentionally to avoid the content filter on this forum.. lol).

That is, it just briefly cuts to the third-person when you do certain moves, like climb a difficult obstacle, do an acrobatic flip over a ledge or hang & slide down a zip line.

For anyone who can actually read the article themselves, does this sound accurate?

While I'd personally prefer uninterrupted first-person immersion, this worked pretty well in Riddic, and Deus Ex already frequently cuts to third-person for conversations, so maybe it won't be such a big deal. :)

Bloodwolf806

10-04-2008, 12:11 PM

Consider me hyped. Everyone whining and complaining needs to take a chill pill. Deus Ex is an outdated game using outdated concepts. The auto-heal, cover system, and other things sound like they could be great if properly implemented. And COD4 is proof that Auto-heal doesn't equal easy game.

Looks great guys, hope for more info soon!

3nails4you

10-04-2008, 12:13 PM

Without saying too much (I'm sorry!), the social aspect of the game is extremely important. Do not fear.

Augmented people not welcome here

Hmm...

Lazarus Ledd

10-04-2008, 12:30 PM

Good thing I read this leak before I enter hospital
Still, the new Berserk chapter on 6th will make me nervous.

I don’t think autoheal is a bad thing just because it’s asociated with massivley sold titles as CODfish or HALO. That doesn’t mean it has sold it’s heart of DX. It may indicate a more action oriented gameplay, but we’ll still have the stealth aspect too. I need something to make my heart ticking for real after 8 years and this seems like turning point.

These tentacles as bungees, this sound like a concept of DX2 I read nowhere on the net but in a magazine here, a grappling rope. You argued it would have to be a prequel due to the primitivity of the device, and I vouched fror the PREQUEL, YAY =D, but TENTACLES??? That’s more like Resident Evil 3:the Nemesis guy or Doctor Octopus from Spiderman 2. But since this this nanotehnology i digg it somehow.
An aug that punches through the wall. Could be used for smoking, flashbanging or LAM’ing the room. Doesn’t mean just brute hand force. If they let us use our creativity, thing will get fun. It doesn’t get interesting until someone gets hurt, does it?

Does the new F1 track in Shanghai still exists in DX 2027
This is interesting since there is a mod, still alive Deus Ex 2027 =D

Gunter Herman

10-04-2008, 12:35 PM

A dead René doesn't help anyone, does it?

I want more info, even over dead bodies! :D

Auto-heal: Stalker also has auto-heal, but it's very, very slow. It really depends on how fast health regenerates IMO. If it's just for hiding somewhere as a last resort and wait, it's ok. If it means you don't even need medpacks anymore and fighting get easy, it's not.

P.S. COD sucks. :)

3nails4you

10-04-2008, 12:40 PM

Hey René, can I get one tiiiiiiny piece of info?

MUSIC. I WANT MY DX ORIGINAL THEME USED IN THIS GAME LIKE CRAZY. I MUST KNOW NOW.

Thanks

Bloodwolf806

10-04-2008, 12:43 PM

Hey René, can I get one tiiiiiiny piece of info?

MUSIC. I WANT MY DX ORIGINAL THEME USED IN THIS GAME LIKE CRAZY. I MUST KNOW NOW.

Thanks

Agreed. The original Deus Ex had INCREDIBLE music. The third must not disappoint.

Gunter Herman

10-04-2008, 12:49 PM

Agreed. The original Deus Ex had INCREDIBLE music. The third must not disappoint.

Absolutely important! Please no metal music like in parts of DX2, electronics is the way for a game like this! But since the original theme was used in the teaser, I have hopes...

Also wanted to ask something else: Is "Adam" the smoking guy? Hope that won't get censored - I like it! ;)

Mindmute

10-04-2008, 01:05 PM

Also wanted to ask something else: Is "Adam" the smoking guy? Hope that won't get censored - I like it! ;)

I have to admit I really like that smoking guy aswell. If that's not cyberpunk than I have lost all track of what is.

René

10-04-2008, 01:09 PM

Also wanted to ask something else: Is "Adam" the smoking guy? Hope that won't get censored - I like it! ;)

Yes, that's Adam.

René

10-04-2008, 01:10 PM

Hey René, can I get one tiiiiiiny piece of info?

MUSIC. I WANT MY DX ORIGINAL THEME USED IN THIS GAME LIKE CRAZY. I MUST KNOW NOW.

Sorry, can't say anything about that right now. Our Sound Designer knows how to use guns.

D_X

10-04-2008, 01:26 PM

Adam, Adam...hm could it be that he is the source of DNA from whom they clone the Denton brothers?:eek:
possible spoiler, or just a dumb idea!

ricwhite

10-04-2008, 01:35 PM

Great information on this thread. Very important that Rene is here to clarify things that are subjectively interpreted by the limited scans of the PCZ article.
My biggest fear has been calmed some. I hate 3rd-person perspective, but from what Rene described it'll be limited and effectively implemented. Whew.

Rene, could you say anything about locations at all? Will there be a variety of different locations that the main character will travel to? I see the scan of Seattle, but I'm hoping there will be diverse and varied locations.

Also, will DX3 use a time system whereby we see all 24 hours or is it only a "night" game like DX1? Also, is there any weather variety?

Thanks for your insight.

HouseOfPain

10-04-2008, 01:36 PM

After re-reading everything and seeing Rene's PR backlash...

I'd decided I wont throw myself into the grinding Hype machine, I'll stand back with slight pessimism until I'm proven wrong.

But I know now, and this has been confirmed, that Deus Ex 3 wont, and CANT live up to Deus Ex 1. Now Deus Ex 2... we'll see about that.

René

10-04-2008, 01:48 PM

Rene, could you say anything about locations at all? Will there be a variety of different locations that the main character will travel to? I see the scan of Seattle, but I'm hoping there will be diverse and varied locations.

Also, will DX3 use a time system whereby we see all 24 hours or is it only a "night" game like DX1? Also, is there any weather variety?

I shouldn't say anything about the locations on here except to clarify what was already posted. That's Shanghai, China in the image scanned. Not Seattle. But don't worry - we know that traveling the world is one of the core values for Deus Ex...

Sorry I can't provide more details right now!

3nails4you

10-04-2008, 01:58 PM

Sorry, can't say anything about that right now. Our Sound Designer knows how to use guns.

OK then, how about giving me a job at Eidos Montreal then filling me in on everything. I MUST KNOW 'BOUT DA MUSIC.

Overtime

10-04-2008, 03:12 PM

Adam, Adam...hm could it be, could it be, that he is the source of DNA from whom they clone the Denton brothers?:eek:
possible spoiler, or just a dumb idea!

dude, thats actually a great idea...Would be so cool to link it up in that way...

They are going to have to link it up with JC somehow. It's suicide if they dont.
Deus Ex is JC.

Notice the name choice...Adam...like Adam and Eve. Goes along the lines of JC being Jesus Christ...I wonder if there is an Eve in the game....It might link up to what you said above....

pauldenton

10-04-2008, 03:17 PM

Adam, Adam...hm could it be, could it be, that he is the source of DNA from whom they clone the Denton brothers?:eek:
possible spoiler, or just a dumb idea!

I think we have the winner!

My guess months ago was prequel and Dentons genetic father - could it be right on both counts?

My other guess due to the teaser is that the plot will focus on discrimination, which i personally believe is a plot that has grown very, very old and is often over simplistic and always boring.

The third person elements are probably due to the Splinter cell side of the DX 3 team.

I am worried however that it will break immersion and continuity for a `wow` factor which can grow old rather quick?

Also not too sure about the health system, too little detail, but sitting in a remote place somewhere waiting for your health to regenerate just isn't productive or fun?

we shall see.

Gunter Herman

10-04-2008, 03:33 PM

One thing that has been mentioned before, important to many die-hard fans:

Will it be possible to actually type into terminals like in DX1 (or Vampires Bloodlines)?

This is such a simple thing to program (I guess), but adds lot of immersion. The only problem today... gaming consoles have no keyboards and if the game was somehow "optimized" for consoles, chances would be low... :scratch:

Gunter Herman

10-04-2008, 03:35 PM

Yes, that's Adam.

Il fume des Gauloises comme moi, peut-être? :rolleyes: For once, in-game advertisements I wouldn't mind!

Mindmute

10-04-2008, 03:58 PM

I think we have the winner!

My guess months ago was prequel and Dentons genetic father - could it be right on both counts?

Not entirelly sure...
Could be, but by 2027 isn't Paul 10 years old? I guess we'll find out if Adam is revealed to have a 10 year old son who can't smile :rolleyes:

3nails4you

10-04-2008, 04:00 PM

Azrepheal

10-04-2008, 04:21 PM

Was gonna post a detailed reply but... well, Igoe said everything I was thinking. Essentially - was concerned originally, but now stoked, think this is gonna be moderate awesomeness.

One thing I will say - people are complaining about how the technology is more advanced than in DX1, but then, we still dont know that much about it. Unofficial prototypes 'acquired' by our protagonist? And whose to say he survives - or that the company that makes these mech-augs is still around when DX1 starts. (And by that I dont mean the companys folded, I mean that youve blown them off the planet)

Lets reserve some judgement for, oh, I dunno, perhaps actually playing the game? :nut:

john2gr

10-04-2008, 04:56 PM

Just registered to paste a great post, one with which most of us (die-hard fans of DX1) agree. I'd like Rene's opinion about it and if we can expect to be able to be damaged at the same level in DX3 :

Seriously the healing system of Deus Ex 1 was prefect hand in hand with the localized damage system; full damage to to one leg halved your walking/running speed, full damage to both legs forced you to crawl on the ground until healed, damage to arms decreased weapon accuracy, full damage to both arms made handling weapons impossible until healed, full damage to either head or torso meant certain death. Using a medkit would heal a certain amount of damage on one body-part or spread out on them all. Spending skill points in medical skills increased the hitpoints healed pr. medkit. Auto-healing is such and incredibly dumb design desition that does not suit the intelligent first person RPG style of Deus Ex AT ALL

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 05:00 PM

Was gonna post a detailed reply but... well, Igoe said everything I was thinking. Essentially - was concerned originally, but now stoked, think this is gonna be moderate awesomeness.All it takes to reverse your opinion is one company representative on a forum with an interest in the game's sales figures?

Even Ion Storm employees, if you remember, ran damage control after the IW demo was released. They probably used the word "awesome" as frequently as Rene has, too. A word, I imagine, few now use to describe Invisible War.

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 05:12 PM

Just registered to paste a great post, one with most of us (die-hard fans of DX1) agree. I'd like Rene's opinion about it and if we can expect to be able to be damage at the same level in DX3 :As atrocious as such a scaling-back of complexity is, my main problem is not so much the actual simplification of game play elements, but rather what it likely indicates about the overall design philosophy underpinning the game. Recall that Invisible War's similar (although, incidentally, not as worse?) lobotomy of Deus Ex's combat was not the sole problem with the game. It represented a larger, inherent problem within the developer's overall design philosophy. A larger problem that permeated the entire game and had ramifications for its setting, narrative structure and characters, in addition to combat mechanics.

jc_lemon_lime

10-04-2008, 05:14 PM

Adam, Adam...hm could it be that he is the source of DNA from whom they clone the Denton brothers?:eek:
possible spoiler, or just a dumb idea!

i think you could be on to something there. it would be a cool way to tie him to the bros. denton since he could not meet them in person; seeing as how DX3 is set 29 years before DX1, and neither of them had been born yet. (the morpheus AI in everett's house states that JC is 23, and it's doubtful that paul could be more than 5 or 6 years older than him)

as for the game itself, i'm as aprehensive about the recharging hitpoints and 3rd person stealth as the next fanboy, but the setting and new hero sound compelling, as do the return of skill points and a invantory screen. and the mech augs that have been mentioned sound f'ing awesome; so i feel optimistic about it overall.

ps: could someone please post scans of the magazene? most of the text in the photos is unreadable

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 05:19 PM

The Killjoy

10-04-2008, 06:26 PM

People get way too sensitive about their favourite game of yore. Personally I am soooo hyped from the little news we have got. Everything except the health system seems awesome but I would be fine with that as long as individual limbs still get crippled and effect your movement etc. Rene clarified the view system in another thread so that makes me feel better about the 3rd person stuff, I dont know if he said it here too but basically it only going to zoom out to 3rd person to show off cool things that are happening, probably the bungy mod for example.

Hell any Deus ex is better than no Deus Ex in my book it's not like its going to make the first one any worse.

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 06:45 PM

Hell any Deus ex is better than no Deus Ex in my book it's not like its going to make the first one any worse.No, it won't. But it will be just another aid to the progressive devolution of art into mediocrity and unoriginality that has defined the 00s. Such a thing should be opposed from an ideological standpoint, in my thinking.

The Killjoy

10-04-2008, 09:11 PM

No, it won't. But it will be just another aid to the progressive devolution of art into mediocrity and unoriginality that has defined the 00s. Such a thing should be opposed from an ideological standpoint, in my thinking.

I cant really disagree with that but I will be keeping an open mind until I can play the game for myself.

chip5541

10-04-2008, 09:46 PM

I will be keeping an open mind until I can play the game for myself.

Since not all information on teh game has been released I think this is a very good opinion. :thumbsup:

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 10:09 PM

Since not all information on teh game has been released I think this is a very good opinion. :thumbsup:So little information has been released regarding Deus Ex 3. Of course, any information that exists has also not been released in the most reliable fashion. So it's mildly reasonable to remain open minded at this time... If you're an optimist at heart.

However, at times when there are ample previews in circulation, the idea that one needs to pay for and sit down with a game in order to infer anything about its quality is preposterous.

But I understand you're trying to prevent a ****-storm, of course.

chip5541

10-04-2008, 10:29 PM

However, at times when there are ample previews in circulation, the idea that one needs to pay for and sit down with a game in order to infer anything about its quality is preposterous.

But with DuexEx3, this is not the case. Only now has any small amount of detail been released. I think many people are jumping the gun just a tad before having all the information. In some cases the information being posted is incorrect.
There is a difference between a preview and a review. Reviews are what people need to rely on for assertaining the quality of a game, not previews. Another way is through the release of a demo. I do not know if there will be one but you do not need to buy the game to assertain its quality.

But I understand you're trying to prevent a ****-storm, of course.

Not so much trying to prevent any kind of storm as much as correct people if there are any false statements. We are here to answer your questions as best we can. Some information cannot be given due to other obligations but will come in time.

Romeo

10-04-2008, 10:30 PM

I'm probably going to be exiled for saying so, but I'm kinda looking forward to third person... Almost every game in recent memory has been a FPS, save for Gears of War. It's kind of nice to physically see your character get hurt in battle, to see him hide from enemies, hell... Just to see him period. Besides, I'm hoping this is a foot in the door for character customization.

The only thing I wasn't too fond of hearing was a Call of Duty style health regen, although I have heard that this was greatly over exaggerated, so I'm not even overly concerned with it either. And the rest of the details sounded FANTASTIC! Dialogue that's improved over Mass Effect? AWESOME!

I recognize some people are angry that they took a few chances. Personally, I applaud them for doing so (If I wanted to play Deus Ex over again... I'd play Deus Ex over again). Besides, for the things people did want in, it seems like they've returned them (Ammo-types and Skill-points).

Sorry, I lied, there were two things I wasn't too fond of hearing. It's also a prequel. :p But from what I read even that sounds interesting (something I never thought possible) so, really, I'm having a good day.

chip5541

10-04-2008, 10:33 PM

I never played the original but I do like how this sounds.

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 10:43 PM

And the rest of the details sounded FANTASTIC! Dialogue that's improved over Mass Effect? AWESOME!The dialogue in Mass Effect wasn't so great, in my opinion. Nothing like the dialogue in Fallout, Planescape:Torment or Deus Ex. This is a the next game in the Deus Ex series, after all - how about dialogue that's improved over Deus Ex?

I recognize some people are angry that they took a few chances. Personally, I applaud them for doing soRemoving gameplay elements that Deus Ex pioneered and which we haven't seen since and replacing them with mechanics lifted directly out of games that are currently on the market is *not* "taking a few chances". It is precisely the opposite. (If I wanted to play Deus Ex over again... I'd play Deus Ex over again)Right, but this is a sequel (prequel, whatever) to a Deus Ex game. Nobody is asking for the exact same game with a graphics upgrade and no new ideas. That's a pretty deplorable strawman argument. I think most people are simply hoping for a game that is consistent with, and gives appropriate respect to, the design values that can be seen in the original. And a title with lobotomized combat mechanics, isn't representative of such a game.

Romeo

10-04-2008, 10:55 PM

The dialogue in Mass Effect wasn't so great, in my opinion. Nothing like the dialogue in Fallout, Planescape:Torment or Deus Ex. This is a the next game in the Deus Ex series, after all - how about dialogue that's improved over Deus Ex?

Removing gameplay elements that Deus Ex pioneered and which we haven't seen since and replacing them with mechanics lifted directly out of games that are currently on the market is *not* "taking a few chances". It is precisely the opposite. Right, but this is a sequel (prequel, whatever) to a Deus Ex game. Nobody is asking for the exact same game with a graphics upgrade and no new ideas. That's a pretty deplorable strawman. I think most people are simply hoping for a game that is consistent with, and gives appropriate respect to, the design values that can be seen in the original. And a title with lobotomized combat mechanics, isn't.
I always found the dialogue in the Deus Ex series to be completely devoid of emotion, so I wont comment there. And what I was referring to is the type of conversations present in Mass Effect, everything about them is superior to the competition (the wheel, the emotion portrayed and yes, the voice acting).

Doing what everyone else is doing? You mean like... MAKING A FIRST-PERSON SHOOTER (Ghasp)? So, it's third-person is much more unique than other FPS (and from what I read, it's not even just third-person, if you're THAT concerned), so essentially, the only pot you've got to piss in is the auto-recharge health. Which can be adjusted and altered completely... And from what I've seen, the exact things you just lambasted it for not doing (being unique, yet rooted) are EXACTLY what I see it doing.

Romeo

10-04-2008, 11:01 PM

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198546

1Cover system?

2No skills for weapons?

REGENERATING HEALTH?!?!?!

3I really hope that isn't the case. If I want to play Call of Duty, I'll play Call of Duty. One of the brilliant aspects of the original Deus Ex was localized damage - the regenerating health ala CoD ruins that.
1) Call of Duty didn't have a cover system, so your point is moot.

2) I don't know where you got that, but it's explicitly stated that you can apply your points to weapons or other such things.

3) And like I've said already, if I wanted to play an exact clone of Deus Ex, I'd play Deus Ex. I welcome a little change, it's what this damn industry needs.

chip5541

10-04-2008, 11:07 PM

Would have made more sense if he said "If I want to play Uncharted: Drakes Fortune, I'll play Uncharted: Drakes Fortune." :rasp:

Romeo

10-04-2008, 11:09 PM

Ba-Zing. lol

Icarus AI

10-04-2008, 11:10 PM

i think you could be on to something there. it would be a cool way to tie him to the bros. denton since he could not meet them in person; seeing as how DX3 is set 29 years before DX1, and neither of them had been born yet. (the morpheus AI in everett's house states that JC is 23, and it's doubtful that paul could be more than 5 or 6 years older than him)

as for the game itself, i'm as aprehensive about the recharging hitpoints and 3rd person stealth as the next fanboy, but the setting and new hero sound compelling, as do the return of skill points and a invantory screen. and the mech augs that have been mentioned sound f'ing awesome; so i feel optimistic about it overall.

ps: could someone please post scans of the magazene? most of the text in the photos is unreadable

If I remember correctly accroding to the Deus Ex bible Paul is 11 years older and was born in 2018 so he would be 8 or 9 by 2027.

Romeo

10-04-2008, 11:13 PM

Aw, little baby Paul... I'd kick him. Just to enrage him for all his future assignments as an adult... He'd always imagine that face on every enemy he killed. Even brick walls... :mad2:

-=fox=-

10-04-2008, 11:19 PM

I thought it was made clear by now that DX3 will be played mainly in 1st person view, except some special actions... The initial misinterpretation caused quite a lot of negative response. :rolleyes:

I share "pauldenton"s concern about breaking the immersion when switching between views but we'll see how it turns out since DX did that for conversations - which worked.

Romeo

10-04-2008, 11:22 PM

I'm not going to lie, in Rainbow 6 it did break the immersion for me, yet for some reason, in The Darkness, it did not. I suppose it will all depend on how they handle that switching. It's only supposed to be used in a cinematic funtion anyways, from what I gather.

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 11:23 PM

I always found the dialogue in the Deus Ex series to be completely devoid of emotion, so I wont comment there. And what I was referring to is the type of conversations present in Mass Effect, everything about them is superior to the competition (the wheel, the emotion portrayed and yes, the voice acting).There is such a thing as well-written text that isn't necessarily deeply emotive.

Deus Ex was the collapsed form of a world that had become increasingly mechanised and alienated. In a world so emotionally tired and down-trodden as Deus Ex's was, it would have been fitting if much of the inhabitants' dialogue seemed detached and distant. And I'm not too sure how much emotive discourse I would really expect from corrupt plutocrats, conspirators, riot police or a UNATCO agent designed in a tube, possibly to be unemotional.

In either case, I found it to be quite emotive, anyway.

What about the other two, then? I find it difficult to imagine that you really found Mass Effect of superior writing to Fallout or Planescape:Torment.

Doing what everyone else is doing? You mean like... MAKING A FIRST-PERSON SHOOTER (Ghasp)? So, it's third-person is much more unique than other FPS (and from what I read, it's not even just third-person, if you're THAT concerned), so essentially, the only pot you've got to piss in is the auto-recharge health. Which can be adjusted and altered completely... And from what I've seen, the exact things you just lambasted it for not doing (being unique, yet rooted) are EXACTLY what I see it doing.If by "making a first person shooter", you meant "as opposed to an FPS/RPG", then yes. That is what everyone is doing. Consider what BioShock was to System Shock 2 and what Fallout 3 will be to Fallout 1/2. And no, that would not be the only "pot to piss in", either. Things like player skill being the determining factor rather than character skill also indicate a digression from RPG-style play. Stats being centered around weapons. Swinging from buildings from tentacles and punching through walls to strangle people are not exactly images that I would instantly identify with Deus Ex.

Romeo

10-04-2008, 11:32 PM

There is such a thing as well-written text that isn't necessarily deeply emotive.

Deus Ex was the collapsed form of a world that had become increasingly mechanised and alienated. In a world so emotionally tired and down-trodden as Deus Ex's was, it would have been fitting if much of the inhabitants' dialogue seemed detached and distant. And I'm not too sure how much emotive discourse I would really expect from corrupt plutocrats, conspirators, riot police or a UNATCO agent designed in a tube, possibly to be unemotional.

In either case, I found it to be quite emotive, anyway.

What about the other two, then? I find it difficult to imagine that you really found Mass Effect of superior writing to Fallout or Planescape:Torment.

If by "making a first person shooter", you meant "as opposed to an FPS/RPG", then yes. That is what everyone is doing. Consider what BioShock was to System Shock 2 and what Fallout 3 will be to Fallout 1/2. And no, that would not be the only "pot to piss in", either. Things like player skill being the determining factor rather than character skill also indicate a digression from RPG-style play. Stats being centered around weapons. Swinging from buildings from tentacles and punching through walls to strangle people are not exactly images that I would instantly identify with Deus Ex.
It always seemed like they were trying too hard to refrain from showing any emotion though, came across as a B-Grade action movie. And I do consider Mass Effect's dialogue better than the original Fallout, I haven't played the sequel or spin-off (Brotherhood of Steel), albeit, Fallout 3's looks not too bad. However, the actual emotion and life of characters is nothing compared to Mass Effect (seeing a character's expressions change and their eyes mimic it so well was truly a bar-raiser). I also have never heard-of/played the other you mentioned, so I can't make a comparison.

And you're last few points are self-conflicting: You first state that making it first-person would be acceptable, as it would be a FPS/RPG. Then you pull a complete 180 and say it's no longer an RPG and it's based upon player skill. Whatever your opinion on either, you're wrong. A) The game is mostly first-person, using third-person only to highlight cinematic sequences, and B) It's already been mentioned skill-points will affect your weapons, so please do some research before you comment on how unacceptable things are.

Icarus AI

10-04-2008, 11:46 PM

Are there full scans (not just the pictures) anywhere? PM if scans are not allowed.

thomasaquinas

10-04-2008, 11:47 PM

And you're last few points are self-conflicting: You first state that making it first-person would be acceptable, as it would be a FPS/RPG. Then you pull a complete 180 and say it's no longer an RPG and it's based upon player skill.Right. And that would make it an FPS rather than an FPS/RPG, would it not? So please re-read things before you comment on how gloriously wrong they are:you're wrong.Typically, people who declare others are wrong with such confidence are usually not the ones in the right.The game is mostly first-person, using third-person only to highlight cinematic sequences, and B) It's already been mentioned skill-points will affect your weapons, so please do some research before you comment on how unacceptable things are.I'm aware of what perspective the game is in. It should be clear by now that I have, in fact, played the original Deus Ex. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean it must be because they're ignorant. My argument was never that the game should not be in first person (I'm actually rather surprised you would assume anybody would take such a ridiculous stance). Clearly, I am of the opinion that the original sounds like it will be more RPG-like than this incarnation and that is my problem. Perhaps skill points will effect weapons in some sense, it doesn't really matter, because there will be a shift from character-skill to player-skill in the end. Much like the progression of System Shock 2 (FPS/RPG) to BioShock (For all purposes, FPS). Which wouldn't make for a great FPS/RPG (you know, given that an RPG is meant to be a pen-and-paper emulation where player skill is entirely irrelevant).

Romeo

10-05-2008, 12:10 AM

Are there full scans (not just the pictures) anywhere? PM if scans are not allowed.
They're not allowed, sorry. Although, I'm sure you'll be able to find them somewhere else online.
Right. And that would make it an FPS rather than an FPS/RPG, would it not? So please re-read things before you comment on how gloriously wrong they are:Typically, people who declare others are wrong with such confidence are usually not the ones in the right.I'm aware of what perspective the game is in. It should be clear by now that I have, in fact, played the original Deus Ex. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean it must be because they're ignorant. My argument was never that the game should not be in first person (I'm actually rather surprised you would assume anybody would take such a ridiculous stance). Clearly, I am of the opinion that the original sounds like it will be more RPG-like than this incarnation and that is my problem. Perhaps skill points will effect weapons in some sense, it doesn't really matter, because there will be a shift from character-skill to player-skill in the end. Much like the progression of System Shock 2 (FPS/RPG) to BioShock (For all purposes, FPS). Which wouldn't make for a great FPS/RPG (you know, given that an RPG is meant to be a pen-and-paper emulation where player skill is entirely irrelevant).
No, it would once again make it a FPS/RPG, my point was that you declared it to contain neither, when both were present.

No, from what I've seen here generally this community only declares something or someone is wrong, when they are. Perhaps if you had been here earlier instead of now joining and whining, you'd know that. And how is allocating skill-points towards weapons any different than a traditional RPG? Either I'm going to improve all pistol capability, thus increasing accuracy and the like, or, in this case, I'm going to improve my capabilities with a certain pistol (which is infinately more reaslistic). And no, RPGs are not meant to be pen-and-paper affairs, that's a certain style of RPG, just as western and japanese are both types of RPGs, not steadfast rules.

jordan_a

10-05-2008, 12:12 AM

I hate Cyber Renaissance crap. It's innovative, it's a good idea, but not for DX3!Youth is fiery. :D

Igoe

10-05-2008, 12:21 AM

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 12:22 AM

The idea that we can't discuss what the game should be, or what we want it to be, is mind boggling.

Romeo

10-05-2008, 12:28 AM

All of this back and forth makes me laugh. (in a shameless self-promoting way)

Look, Deus Ex was good. It did a lot of things right, but it's BECAUSE of that they have a hard time following that up. When you do something RIGHT, theres little to improve upon. Take Zelda: Twilight Princess. A LOT of people complained that it was just Ocarina 2.0, when those SAME people several months prior were all clamoring for another Ocarina. Even when you are given exactly what you want (with a graphical overhaul) you still complain.

This is not a forum for personal gripes or for rabid expulsions of grief over tidbits of information on a game currently in development. This is a forum for DX3 and its development. Not what you want it to be, not for what it shouldn't be, but for what it is.

For MONTHS we complained for lack on info. This should be a GLORIOUS DAY for all of us, but instead its full of petty squabbles and misinformation.

We're all eager for DX3 to be good, but throwing around quotes like "Typically, people who declare others are wrong with such confidence are usually not the ones in the right." and "However, at times when there are ample previews in circulation, the idea that one needs to pay for and sit down with a game in order to infer anything about its quality is preposterous." Don't contribute to the quality of a game. They tell other people what to think.

Don't tell me what aspects of a game to enjoy. I know what I enjoy and I will buy a game and play it first before I throw around heavy handed criticism.

The consensus is the skill system and inventory needed to be addressed, and they were. EM is very capable of writing good story and are equipped with a MORE than capable engine.

Now let's get back to DISCUSSING the tidbits of the game instead of berating them, and perhaps EM won't feel like they REGRET revitalizing a franchise with such a dedicated fanbase.
Gosh, this would have been a glorious day, were I not a mod...
The idea that we can't discuss what the game should be, or what we want it to be, is mind boggling.
I think the point he's trying to make is that whining and bickering arn't going to make a difference anymore, people had those oppotunities when the game was earlier in devellopment. And you can discuss, of course, I support such things, what I can't stand is the flood of people who joined today so they could whine like children about how it isn't their image of Deus Ex. More or less, I tend to agree with what the guy's saying, albeit, probably out of sleep-deprivation and intolerence at this point.

thomasaquinas

10-05-2008, 12:36 AM

They're not allowed, sorry. Although, I'm sure you'll be able to find them somewhere else online.

No, it would once again make it a FPS/RPG, my point was that you declared it to contain neither, when both were present.So when, then, does an FPS/RPG become just an FPS? If we're not going to go by the actual definition of what an RPG is (i.e. its origins). In either case, it will likely be less of an RPG than Deus Ex.

No, from what I've seen here generally this community only declares something or someone is wrong, when they are. Perhaps if you had been here earlier instead of now joining and whining, you'd know that. And how is allocating skill-points towards weapons any different than a traditional RPG?In the sense that in a traditional RPG, skill points are not based soley around your arsenal. Consider Fallout, which we spoke of earlier, including things like "Barter", "Speech", "First Aid", "Doctor", "Gambling", "Lockpick", "Sneak", "Steal", "Outdoorsman", "Repair", "Traps" and "Science".

I wonder if we'll be able to complete Deus Ex 3 without killing anybody.

I fail to see what my being a new member has to do with the legitimacy of my arguments. Any argument you personally don't deem legitimate is also not necessarily "whining". Don't belittle my thinking. I've not done it to you. As far as the community always being right in all cases and at all times. Well, even Einstein was wrong once or twice in his life, I imagine. But then I also imagine that someone like Einstein would never claim with confidence that he was always right.

Edit: Deus Ex 3 is still early in development. If there was a time where it made sense to make known your disappointments, whatever they are, now would be that time. Obviously, previously, we had nothing at all to go on.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 12:40 AM

People have a right to complain, IMO. I like (most) of what I know about the game, but there are some indications that they're still taking the game in the wrong direction. A lot of people really loved Deus Ex, and a lot of people would really love to play that type of game in that type of setting again, and it's really disappointing to find out that instead, you may be getting cyber-punk Bioshock, or another Invisible War. It's discouraging to see things like regenerating health and lack of skill-based aiming showing up in a game that was supposed to set the course for this franchise and get it back on track. I think it displays the same type of decision making that gave us a Shadowrun counter-strike clone. I don't mean to say the game is going to be just as bad, I just mean that it's very clear what (most) of the people want, but...they just aren't getting it.

And I doubt it's too late for people to affect some change on the game. Huge, sweeping changes, yes. Something like "turn regenerative health into an option", not so much. That would be very easy to implement, even as just a part of the "realistic" difficulty setting. Besides, I think any sane individual at Eidos or Eidos Montreal would be happy to have some feedback from their potential customers anyways. Better to catch colossal mistakes now and give yourself a chance to correct them, than to release a game that is going to buried by bad word of mouth, and is going to bury a potentially big franchise for them.

And, as a disclaimer, again I do like most of what I know about the game. It's just a few things here and there that I'd like to see altered in varying ways.

Romeo

10-05-2008, 12:41 AM

So when, then, does an FPS/RPG become just an FPS? If we're not going to go by the actual definition of what an RPG is (i.e. its origins). In either case, it will likely be less of an RPG than Deus Ex.

In the sense that in a traditional RPG, skill points are not based soley around your arsenal. Consider Fallout, which we spoke of earlier, including things like "Barter", "Speech", "First Aid", "Doctor", "Gambling", "Lockpick", "Sneak", "Steal", "Outdoorsman", "Repair", "Traps" and "Science".

I wonder if we'll be able to complete Deus Ex 3 without killing anybody.

I fail to see what my being a new member has to do with the legitimacy of my arguments. Any argument you personally don't deem legitimate is also not necessarily "whining". Don't belittle my thinking. I've not done it to you. As far as the community always being right in all cases and at all times. Well, even Einstein was wrong once or twice in his life, I imagine. But then I also imagine that someone like Einstein would never claim with confidence that he was always right.
A FPSRPG becomes a FPS when it's RPG elements are removed; DX3's have not been. The stats are alive and wel, and may be applied to the classics such as hacking and lockpicking, but also combat roles, such as assault rifle talent. It's not the legitimacy of your arguments I'm targetting, it's why, if you're so concerned about the outcome of this game, that you're only joining now, instead of months ago when you could've contributed and voiced your opinion. Instead, you've sat around and waited for news that doesn't suit you, and then joined you voice your disgust. Whining will solve nothing at this point, and as I've said already, it's much like not voting, and then whining about who's elected.

thomasaquinas

10-05-2008, 12:55 AM

A FPSRPG becomes a FPS when it's RPG elements are removed; DX3's have not been. The stats are alive and wel, and may be applied to the classics such as hacking and lockpicking, but also combat roles, such as assault rifle talent. It's not the legitimacy of your arguments I'm targetting, it's why, if you're so concerned about the outcome of this game, that you're only joining now, instead of months ago when you could've contributed and voiced your opinion. Instead, you've sat around and waited for news that doesn't suit you, and then joined you voice your disgust. Whining will solve nothing at this point, and as I've said already, it's much like not voting, and then whining about who's elected.It makes sense to join at this time, I think. If it had been what I considered good news, I might not have stuck around because I didn't feel that there were things that needed changing. I might have still joined to register my approval, so that the developer didn't feel compelled to change their direction. Prior to now, we had nothing to go on, though, not even the developer's history. And to be honest, being a pessimist, I never felt the developer would have targeted hardcore fans with their design anyway. It's more like actually reading some of the candidates policies and then voting.

Remember, though, this isn't just wild negativity on my part. Deus Ex 3 is not being made in a vacuum. It's being developed by an alien developer from within the context of an industry that has observed a general trend of complexity --> simplicity.

Obviously, Deus Ex --> Deus Ex: Invisible War, but also
System Shock 2 --> BioShock,
Fallout 2 --> Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel --> Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (Xbox) --> Fallout 3
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn --> Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (Xbox)
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind --> The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

etc.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 01:00 AM

All of this back and forth makes me laugh. (in a shameless self-promoting way)

Look, Deus Ex was good. It did a lot of things right, but it's BECAUSE of that they have a hard time following that up. When you do something RIGHT, theres little to improve upon. Take Zelda: Twilight Princess. A LOT of people complained that it was just Ocarina 2.0, when those SAME people several months prior were all clamoring for another Ocarina. Even when you are given exactly what you want (with a graphical overhaul) you still complain.

This is not a forum for personal gripes or for rabid expulsions of grief over tidbits of information on a game currently in development. This is a forum for DX3 and its development. Not what you want it to be, not for what it shouldn't be, but for what it is.

For MONTHS we complained for lack on info. This should be a GLORIOUS DAY for all of us, but instead its full of petty squabbles and misinformation.

We're all eager for DX3 to be good, but throwing around quotes like "Typically, people who declare others are wrong with such confidence are usually not the ones in the right." and "However, at times when there are ample previews in circulation, the idea that one needs to pay for and sit down with a game in order to infer anything about its quality is preposterous." Don't contribute to the quality of a game. They tell other people what to think.

Don't tell me what aspects of a game to enjoy. I know what I enjoy and I will buy a game and play it first before I throw around heavy handed criticism.

The consensus is the skill system and inventory needed to be addressed, and they were. EM is very capable of writing good story and are equipped with a MORE than capable engine.

Now let's get back to DISCUSSING the tidbits of the game instead of berating them, and perhaps EM won't feel like they REGRET revitalizing a franchise with such a dedicated fanbase.

I pretty agree with what you say.

But I can understand the fans here. DX1 has been a true masterpiece. For me it's the best game ever made in history. And DX2 have been a real disappointment. I liked it but it didn't definitively reached the quality of DX 1. So just imagine what happens when you have a total oeuvre d'art which later turns into something more common and far less exciting. You're afraid that the serie will be do disappointing that it can disappear. Or have less success.

Fans are also afraid that a total different team will be unable to reach the quality criterias from DX1. But we forget that the very team which gave us DX1 also gave us DX2. Which proves that a really good team can also make mistakes. As a totaly new team can make great things. You were right to quote Zelda also. There have been NO bad Zelda game (from my POV), even when Miyamoto gave the "boss of the game" title to Eiji Aonuma for Twilight Princess. Result: a total masterpiece. Even if Miyamoto was the producer, the game still remained great and went a bit further into a mature way to see Zelda.

For now what do we have? Only screenshots and small details about the game. Let's wait and see what's coming next. If we start to put the fire on the place before having anything really sure about the game, that means we don't even trust the team in EM here. Let's wait what's coming next, hoping we'll not wait that much to have news and we will see what's coming next.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 01:03 AM

They rented Sheldon Pacotti? Yay!

chip5541

10-05-2008, 01:07 AM

You were right to quote Zelda also. There have been NO bad Zelda game (from my POV),

*hack*coughZelda for teh CD-i*cough*cough*

http://www.pinkgodzillagames.com/retro/cutscene-thumb.jpg

:rasp:

Sorry, I just had to throw that in.
Look, every series can have a dud now and then. Star Wars, Star Trek, Jaws. It happens but then again sometimes a fresh team may cut something that people felt important only to add something to make it better than the original. A perfect example would be the Tomb Raider series.

Larington

10-05-2008, 01:09 AM

"I fail to see what my being a new member has to do with the legitimacy of my arguments. "

Its a matter of intent rather than the specifics of a complaint. The majority of the people who joined prior to this news release have come here to be part of the community discussing their hopes and dreams for the game, in part to do so sooner rather than later. In this case however, the feeling is that your joining is the result of some info you've seen which you aren't happy with and that alone will make several of the longer term residents feel a bit defensive when the verbal war begins.

We've now almost certainly reached the point where 80% of the design document is set in stone and what with the closeness the developers will have formed with the design during the past 1 or 2 years it'll be hard to convince them to go a different path now.

I can't honestly say I'm overjoyed to learn about the auto-heal system, for which we don't yet know the specifics of, but I'm pretty certain theres a good reason for doing it, plus the development team from DX3 will certainly have learned a lot by analysing the response to DX:IWs reception plus from the discussions that have occured on this very forum for over a year about those issues - which will have informed the development team on what to avoid.

Whats interesting, I think, is that I can't recall any of us here saying that we don't want any kind of auto-heal system (Cept for a regen aug), probably because we'd never thought they might go for that.

thomasaquinas

10-05-2008, 01:43 AM

"I fail to see what my being a new member has to do with the legitimacy of my arguments. "

Its a matter of intent rather than the specifics of a complaint. The majority of the people who joined prior to this news release have come here to be part of the community discussing their hopes and dreams for the game, in part to do so sooner rather than later. In this case however, the feeling is that your joining is the result of some info you've seen which you aren't happy with and that alone will make several of the longer term residents feel a bit defensive when the verbal war begins.I can understand that. But as I have said, it makes sense to join at such a time. Prior to this we had no idea which way the game would go. If I hear something I dislike, then it only makes sense to join and combat it. Conversely, if it had all been what I would have considered good news, I probably would have joined at that time to register my approval, in an effort to keep the game on such a direction.We've now almost certainly reached the point where 80% of the design document is set in stone and what with the closeness the developers will have formed with the design during the past 1 or 2 years it'll be hard to convince them to go a different path now.I think it would always have been hard, to be honest. I never had much confidence that the game would be marketed towards niche hardcore players. Too risky for an upstart.

People have to understand, too, that there are other reasons that might prevent a person from joining prior to announcements like this. Some people just generally aren't as sociable, you know. It's glad to see people are welcomed with such open arms, though. I may not have popular opinions, but I certainly wasn't rude.

Luminous Path

10-05-2008, 01:51 AM

These forums are open to anyone regardless of status. The fact that an individual has not been a member for a certain period of time has no bearing on the validity of their opinions, theories etc. I propose we get back to the subject of DX3 rather than squabbling over such trifles.

Personally I was sceptical when the information was released over some aspects, however, I realised after reading some other users' input that they are not trying to reproduce DX1 or IW, only facets of the two. Perhaps this synthesis will be a triumph, perhaps not, hopefully the trickle of information will continue.

It would be good to see a few familiar faces though, which may be possible in relation to some of the older characters (or the inference is they are older) from DX1.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 01:56 AM

*hack*coughZelda for teh CD-i*cough*cough*

http://www.pinkgodzillagames.com/retro/cutscene-thumb.jpg

:rasp:

Sorry, I just had to throw that in.

Holy oh-range, eye rape! XD

About seeing familiar face I second Luminous Path. It'd be cool for example to see Anna Navarre and Gunther Hermann with not augmentations.

Luminous Path

10-05-2008, 01:59 AM

Maybe even Tracer Tong in there somewhere, after all I believe I read (am prepared to be corrected) that some of DX3 occurs in Shanghai. It was good in DX1 to have him in your corner, particularly in Paris and the Paris Cathedral. The future looks bright for the next installment.

chip5541

10-05-2008, 02:00 AM

Very much so. I never played teh original so seeing originals, I would not mean as much or not as much as say FF7, Advent Children and then Crisis Core.

Luminous Path

10-05-2008, 02:05 AM

I think that is part of the majesty of the series that it can function just as a game; the casual user simply picks up and plays. For those that have played the earlier installments there is an added element of depth and immersion in relation to gameplay. Both types of users will, I believe, get a great deal fom the game. Especially true if the story is as multilayered and perhaps hints at events to come. Also bring back the literature and personal touch I say a-la the DX1 datacube.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 02:05 AM

Tracer Tong is pretty old in the DX Games. A younger version wouldbe interresting. Maybe we could expect to see Bob Page also.

Luminous Path

10-05-2008, 02:07 AM

Even an up and coming J.Manderley, maybe we'll get to see more of operation Knight_Killer in DX3 re. his password in DX1.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 02:13 AM

We'll hear about the Denton brothers I think anyway. If we can't see them as NPC, we'll hear about them from other characters or informations.

J.Manderley sounds like cool. Maybe also Walton Simons.

I hope however the sequel will have no contradictions with DX1.

Bluey71

10-05-2008, 03:10 AM

Nice one Rene for coming on here and putting us straight on a few things - much much better than a wall of silence. Thankyou.

I believe I can relax a little now, the screens look awesome, the self regenerating health - well interesting, lets see how it pans out.

The third person look, hmmm. I think that might well be an immersion breaker, for me anyway. Perhaps if it was made optional? Or perhaps we just dont fully understand it yet.

Ye, Im happier now than I was when I first found out about DX3 being in production.

Tecman

10-05-2008, 03:53 AM

We'll hear about the Denton brothers I think anyway. If we can't see them as NPC, we'll hear about them from other characters or informations.

How? We know at least JC was engineered, and even his fictional birthday is two years AFTER the events of DX3, according to the info we have now (JC's date of inception is March 17, 2054). I'm not sure about Paul, but he'd be a snotty brat at that time.

edit: After some digging around, if we take into consideration the "fake" birthday, and that they are identical twins born eleven years apart, Paul is nine years old.

ewanlaing

10-05-2008, 04:24 AM

Initially, I was skeptical.

But Rene has really calmed me down. I'm starting to get prety excited about this game....

the resolute girl

10-05-2008, 04:24 AM

well, i have to say, I'm really not interested in the art style and if/how they changed this and that....

what I hear about the gamemechanics looks a lot like
gears of war/call of duty/metal gear
and those are games I generally don't like except maybe MG but it just don't fit into my deus ex universe. for me deus ex was / and is/was an adventure game with npc interaction and LESS a shooter. the inventory/stats/xp and for today's standard "clunky" weapon handling is much more appealing to me than hand-2-hand combat and moddable weapons and autoheal. I can play FEAR if I wanna jumpkick some replicas. I think just like Fallout3 it will be an interesting game, ultimately it will be decides by its STORY, but just not worthy of carrying the DeusEx / Fallout tag.

well, companies don't care, they cash in on the brand name and many younger gamers that just "heard" of it but never played it 'cause the graphics are so bad, those won't mind and pray at their altar of action.

maybe there will be a cross-over level where you meet the bionic commando.
you could bungee-jump and he could arm-swing.

I'm out.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 04:27 AM

How? We know at least JC was engineered, and even his fictional birthday is two years AFTER the events of DX3, according to the info we have now (JC's date of inception is March 17, 2054). I'm not sure about Paul, but he'd be a snotty brat at that time.

edit: After some digging around, if we take into consideration the "fake" birthday, and that they are identical twins born eleven years apart, Paul is nine years old.

Well I was thinking about that since the Denton Brothers are the core of the DX Mythology in a way. I don't expect to see a full picture of DX in a room. But why not hearing from a "clone project"...

thomasaquinas

10-05-2008, 04:32 AM

Well I was thinking about that since the Denton Brothers are the core of the DX Mythology in a way. I don't expect to see a full picture of DX in a room. But why not hearing from a "clone project"...Might be cool to see the story of JC's employed parents. Their murder, etc.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 04:36 AM

Might be cool to see the story of JC's employed parents. Their murder, etc.

Touché!

We could see something like that...

Luminous Path

10-05-2008, 04:41 AM

Morgan Everett, Stanton Dowd, the DuClares could all be in the mix as well

thomasaquinas

10-05-2008, 04:43 AM

Morgan Everett, Stanton Dowd, the DuClares could all be in the mix as wellElizabeth DuClare, even.

Luminous Path

10-05-2008, 04:44 AM

I agreee that the idea of bungee jumping is a bit far fetched for DX universe

Luminous Path

10-05-2008, 04:46 AM

Yea Beth DuClare would be too young for a decent role I was thinking along the lines of her mothers assasination

Red

10-05-2008, 04:47 AM

Since there are "boss" characters in the game, you can forget about absolutely no-kill runs.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 04:49 AM

Well the Duclares may play a good part in the story. Maybe Lucius Debeers will have his share also...

We could also witness the NY terrorist attack and the making of UNATCO.

Red

10-05-2008, 04:51 AM

The Libery terrorist attack and the formation of UNATCO are the first things that happened in Deus Ex 1 - 2054, so no-go. DX3 - 2027.

J.CDenton

10-05-2008, 05:01 AM

Oh yeah forgot about it. Thanks for quoting that.

Tecman

10-05-2008, 05:07 AM

Well, they could show the uprising of the Northwest Secessionist Forces (NSF), even though they're officially formed in 2031 - when Utah announced its intention to secede from the United States. Show why they wanted to do that, that kind of thing.

IH-Denton

10-05-2008, 05:07 AM

Since there are "boss" characters in the game, you can forget about absolutely no-kill runs.
dont be so shure. Just remember Walton Simons from DX1 - he was some kind of BOSS there, but, in fact, you shouldn't kill him

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 05:15 AM

AaronJ

10-05-2008, 05:23 AM

The West Coast Quakes would have to be a big factor. Cannot wait for that.

3nails4you

10-05-2008, 05:32 AM

The West Coast Quakes would have to be a big factor. Cannot wait for that.

I thought that wasn't til 2030???

AaronJ

10-05-2008, 05:33 AM

I've heard there is a Sheldon Pacotti reference.

AaronJ

10-05-2008, 05:36 AM

Yes, but the game could possibly span over that long. They can't just weasel their way out of it like that, then this might as well be a standalone game.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 06:13 AM

AaronJ

10-05-2008, 06:25 AM

3) And like I've said already, if I wanted to play an exact clone of Deus Ex, I'd play Deus Ex. I welcome a little change, it's what this damn industry needs.

That's a stupid excuse to be hyped for everything. We all would welcome change, but it obviously has to be good change. Self-healing is not in that direction.

ricwhite

10-05-2008, 06:37 AM

Are we going to be seeing the same type of choice system employed in the other DX games? Will we have options pop up on the screen from which we will choose? And, if so, do these choices that we make affect the direction or outcome of the game? Maybe Rene can chime in on this.

Also, I'm wondering from DX fans what they think of the choice system used in the past in DX. Most were just choices involving responses to interactions that really had no long-term consequences. Is there anything you would change in that regard in DX3?

chip5541

10-05-2008, 06:41 AM

Since we don't know the nature of the regenerating health and in what context I would suggest holding back any positive or negative comments until we hear a little more on it.

(half asleep. I hope this makes sense)

Gunter Herman

10-05-2008, 06:47 AM

AaronJ

10-05-2008, 06:58 AM

Most definitely. It is a Deus Ex game after all.

ricwhite

10-05-2008, 07:00 AM

Search this thread, I think it was acknowledged already. :cool:

I read the whole thread and while it was mentioned that there will be choices, I was left wanting a little more information about whether the choices are in the same format as before or if they have a greater role in determining the direction of the game or the outcome. In other words, I want to know more. :D

Caradoc

10-05-2008, 07:44 AM

I must confess that this game looks and feels great, but its just too early to judge how specific gameplay elements like this cover system will work. Stealth has always been the second big route in the orginal deus ex, so i would like to assume that devs have made it viable and fun choise this time too. Only thing that really scared me in that preview was this autohealing feauture. Whats the point of carefull planning and tactics if you can just heal yourself in the middle of a firefight? Deus ex 1 had ofcourse the famous (and somewhat unbalanced) healing aug, but to be frank it never became too powerfull if you played on realistic difficulty setting since one headshot was enough to kill you. Augs made you a superhuman, but they never made you immortal.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 08:03 AM

I must confess that this game looks and feels great, but its just too early to judge how specific gameplay elements like this cover system will work.
No it's not. Play Rainbow Six Vegas, and now imagine having to use that awful system to evade AI.

3nails4you

10-05-2008, 08:12 AM

Yes, but the game could possibly span over that long. They can't just weasel their way out of it like that, then this might as well be a standalone game.

I dunno, I feel like they should keep with the previous games and keep you playing the whole time (with the exception of helicopter rides etc.). One thing that made DX1 so revolutionary was the immersion...no real cutscenes, no "3 months later", etc. I feel like they could tie into the quakes and maybe through datacubes/journals etc. show that the sinking of California (or part of it) was planned or manmade, or something like that.

René

10-05-2008, 08:43 AM

SubTonic20

10-05-2008, 08:52 AM

No it's not. Play Rainbow Six Vegas, and now imagine having to use that awful system to evade AI.

And who said it would be like Vegas? Stop assuming everything, already. Rene specifically stated that the game would be in first person, with third person only being implemented for scripted and/or interactive sequences.

Larington

10-05-2008, 09:05 AM

Went looking around shops in Cardiff today and PC Zone isn't out on the shelves yet, still one or two issue 199s left, but no issue 200. Looks like I'll be buying a couple of different UK gaming mags this month by the sounds of it. Maybe tomorrow*, maybe not out until Thursday.

* I think I'll settle down, until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on... (Couldn't resist)

René

10-05-2008, 09:09 AM

Went looking around shops in Cardiff today and PC Zone isn't out on the shelves yet, still one or two issue 199s left, but no issue 200.

Issue 200 should be on store shelves on the 9th (so they say).

StingingVelvet

10-05-2008, 09:23 AM

Game looks and sounds AWESOME. Major props to the developers... keep up the good work on what so far looks like an EXCELLENT game.

Some of the pessimism in here is sad, really. People with intense love for a game, movie or whatver else are often unable to be pleased by any kind of follow-up. I see the same thing on the Fallout 3 boards... that game looks amazing, but some people can't see that because they want another Fallout 2, and nothing other than another Fallout 2.

I loved Deus Ex. Hell, I loved Deus Ex IW as well, though not as much. Take each game as it comes and you will be much happier.

Larington

10-05-2008, 09:24 AM

Yep, thats about what I'm expecting. I'll just have to try not to go :lmao: :nut: with the waiting.

mouse

10-05-2008, 09:31 AM

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 09:41 AM

And who said it would be like Vegas? Stop assuming everything, already. Rene specifically stated that the game would be in first person, with third person only being implemented for scripted and/or interactive sequences.

Third person is for line-of-site (the only) stealth (this game has), as the magazine makes very clear. Vegas is a FPS that goes into third person for wall cover, so that's your best example of what the stealth in Deus Ex 3 is going to be like.

Unless you've played Perfect Dark Zero, which was total ass.

Stealth in this game is ruined. Eidos can still call it an RPG but it's clear they want everyone to play it as a shooter.

Mindmute

10-05-2008, 09:56 AM

Third person is for line-of-site (the only) stealth (this game has), as the magazine makes very clear. Vegas is a FPS that goes into third person for wall cover, so that's your best example of what the stealth in Deus Ex 3 is going to be like.

Unless you've played Perfect Dark Zero, which was total ass.

Stealth in this game is ruined. Eidos can still call it an RPG but it's clear they want everyone to play it as a shooter.

Actually nothing was really made *that* clear.

Just because there are games that didn't work that well with the cover/3rd person system they had, that is in no way an indication that DX3 won't work with it.
This is a different game, being made by a different team than any of those. If you want to bash any part of it, at least wait until you have solid info, not 3 lines from one magasine article and past experience with very different games.

StingingVelvet

10-05-2008, 09:56 AM

Stealth in this game is ruined. Eidos can still call it an RPG but it's clear they want everyone to play it as a shooter.

That's clear after one brief preview article? Just because there are 3rd person segments, the exact details of which are still sketchy?

Forgive me, but you seem to be acting quite reactionary.

ricwhite

10-05-2008, 09:57 AM

I can't wait until people have actually read the articles; PC Zone isn't the only magazine covering DX3 this month. But when it comes to them, how come our UK subscriber friends haven't leaked any more hi-res scans to the 'net!?

The scans of the images that I saw are fine, but I'm more interested in reading the TEXT of the articles. I tried my best to read the half sentences and the blurry bits and pieces next to some of the images, but I would REALLY like to read the full text of the articles. PLEASE . . . somebody post scans of the text of PC Z article. I'm sure many people (including myself) are asking questions or are speculating about things that are addressed in the text of the article.

The only thing I can figure out is that PCZ issue 200 has not been released yet. If it were, the scans of the article would've been plastered all over the internet by now.

van_HellSing

10-05-2008, 10:00 AM

I wonder how old Adam is, if you look closely you'll notice he has some grey hair.

Romeo

10-05-2008, 10:18 AM

No it's not. Play Rainbow Six Vegas, and now imagine having to use that awful system to evade AI.
That's just one example of cover, plenty of other games have had it. And for the record, most people praised the system in R6V. And of course, this system would be much worse than... A simple FP element with no options to hide... Silly me...
Third person is for line-of-site (the only) stealth (this game has), as the magazine makes very clear. Vegas is a FPS that goes into third person for wall cover, so that's your best example of what the stealth in Deus Ex 3 is going to be like.

Unless you've played Perfect Dark Zero, which was total ass.

Stealth in this game is ruined. Eidos can still call it an RPG but it's clear they want everyone to play it as a shooter.
Right... Well... I can no longer take anything you say seriously. You're a raving lunatic. =)
Actually nothing was really made *that* clear.

Just because there are games that didn't work that well with the cover/3rd person system they had, that is in no way an indication that DX3 won't work with it.
This is a different game, being made by a different team than any of those. If you want to bash any part of it, at least wait until you have solid info, not 3 lines from one magasine article and past experience with very different games.
Yes. I must agree, the potential for error most certainly exists, but then again, the potential to make something amazing is there as well. Personally, I think just seeing seeing a gaurd around the corner in a dark hallway, and waiting for him to look away before diving to another bit of cover sounds pretty damned cool.
That's clear after one brief preview article? Just because there are 3rd person segments, the exact details of which are still sketchy?

Forgive me, but you seem to be acting quite reactionary.
From what I've heard anyway, the third-person elements are used in CINEMATIC SEQUENCES TO HIGHLIGHT THE CHARACTER. IT IS NOT A TOTAL TPS. =D

Romeo

10-05-2008, 10:20 AM

That's a stupid excuse to be hyped for everything. We all would welcome change, but it obviously has to be good change. Self-healing is not in that direction.
Yes, I wont lay claim to looking forward to that particular change, everything else sounded wonderful in my opinion.
Since we don't know the nature of the regenerating health and in what context I would suggest holding back any positive or negative comments until we hear a little more on it.

(half asleep. I hope this makes sense)
And yes, before I tare apart this decision, I should at least see how it's implemented, it could work provided it is done properly.

Kaebis

10-05-2008, 10:28 AM

Looks like my fears are coming to light. They actually had the gall to include a freaking minigame for hacking (how many other games have done this and totally failed at it?), and worst of all, changed the stealth to be cover-based. While that may be good or bad, it implies a much more action-oriented game than either of the previous titles.

However, the most disturbing piece of news is that it's a prequel with no playable JC, or any Denton for that matter. While not a big issue by itself, the time period is. I much valued the dark and politically chaotic world of the first game, and unless E-Mont somehow works a miracle to keep it that way 50 years earlier, I'm going to be shaking my head as I walk down the streets of futuristic fantasy paradise land.

Staying loyal to the first game? My ass.

Keep in mind they're also trying to attract newcomers to the game. And unfortunately for us fans of the original games (yes i know im new to the boards but I have played both DX1 and IW), will have to sit on our hands and hope that we get something slightly similair to previous games in the franchise!

ricwhite

10-05-2008, 10:30 AM

From what I've heard anyway, the third-person elements are used in CINEMATIC SEQUENCES TO HIGHLIGHT THE CHARACTER. IT IS NOT A TOTAL TPS. =D

Well, I think that's what Rene implied, but I'm not so sure. If the 3rd person is only used during some cinematic sequences, I would be happy because I HATE actually playing a character in 3rd person. However, I have a feeling that it's a little more than just cinematic parts because almost EVERY FPS games uses 3rd person cinematics, so to draw attention to DX3s 3rd person use seems to imply to me that it will be used in some way other than typical cinematics -- such as during stealth mode when you sneak up behind a hostile and use some martial arts moves to disable him. It sounds like the player will still have some control. Or maybe it'll be like the Turok 08 game where you press some keys to activate a cinematic script which will switch to a 3rd person view animation as the character sneaks up and disables the hostile. I wouldn't mind that at all. I think it would look pretty cool. As long as I don't actually have to PLAY the character in 3rd person, I'm happy.

Romeo

10-05-2008, 10:30 AM

Seems to me like they've done what most of the people wanted.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 10:54 AM

You'd have to be really out of touch with what people wanted to believe that.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 10:59 AM

You'd have to be really out of touch with what people wanted to believe that.
You mean that people who enjoyed Deus Ex aren't supposed to like a sequel to that game if it completely changes what worked in the original?

I actually heard a guy say, "Wow, Deus Ex was great! I hope the sequel is nothing like it!!!" Of course this is what they want.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 11:02 AM

Yes, I wont lay claim to looking forward to that particular change, everything else sounded wonderful in my opinion.

And yes, before I tare apart this decision, I should at least see how it's implemented, it could work provided it is done properly.
What parameters decide if it's "done properly" exactly? We all know what regenerating health is. The term itself is self explanatory, and every action game nowadays has it. We know exactly how it's going to work. Just imagine Deus Ex 1 with regenerating health. Does that seem right to you? It doesn't to me. I think it's a pretty bad decision on Eidos Montreal's part. But not nearly as bad as removing shadow stealth.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 11:03 AM

Kaebis

10-05-2008, 11:07 AM

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 11:10 AM

I'll never understand why people think it's ok to take a critically loved, good selling game, and change major aspects of it "just because". It makes zero sense. People want new content within the Deus Ex framework, not a Deus Ex-themed shooter. It'd be like saying "hey guys, lets play Basketball, but baskets aren't worth anything, dribbling is illegal, and it's every man for himself", and then getting miffed that people don't like it quite as much as they did the original game. It's crazy.

Focus testing shows that kids and the elderly, who aren't going to buy this game anyway, aren't able to dribble. QA also found that baskets has a negative relation to the female audience, who feel it's a slight against "purses".

Still, it's the responsibility of management to lose all the fan interest in order to appease the people who MIGHT buy this as a Christmas present for someone else. Screw the fans. Make them go play Fallout 3.

But seriously, if they do as you say, it's guaranteed to win back the fans of the original game, and win over people who are looking for more in their shooters/RPGs than just combat and grinding. It seems like there's no one who really knows how to "sell" the Deus Ex concept, which is a shame, because the first one was immensely popular considering all it's flaws. Had they been refined and polished out, no one could complain.

I still feel that ultimately the FPS genre will work it's way toward the Deus Ex formula. It's just a matter of what dev houses innovate "first".

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 11:10 AM

Guy's im as frustrated as you all are about the current state of information and how deeply disturbing it is.

BUT.

There's a but.

They're trying to appeal to a new audience aswell, wether that auidence is a bunch of brain dead idiots who yell at the tv while playing Halo online is to be declared.

So even though this is displeasing to us, in the end they are just trying to make money.

(:
Oh, well, that makes it all better. I'll be sure to support them wholeheartedly now that I've figured out that their misguided attempts to change things are motivated by the belief that people only want to play shooters.

Please.

Deus Ex made plenty of money. Bioshock made plenty of money. KotOR made plenty of money. Mass Effect made plenty of money. And the list goes on. A Deus Ex 3 that actually played like Deus Ex would make itself a lot of money. It's sad that idiots wearing a suit think that the only way to make money is to copy whatever is "in" at the time. They seem to think blending in with an already crowded mass of generic shooters is the way to go.

AaronJ

10-05-2008, 11:13 AM

Well, if it seems that way, give them the biggest "**** you" of all.

Figure that out for yourself.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 11:15 AM

I'd rather give them feedback and hope they don't take a game I was really looking forward to in the wrong direction. Just making one "feature" an option or an augmentation would fix 90% of what I don't like. The rest, like line-of-sight stealth, I can live with, and might even prefer. But auto-healing is game killer. It's going to be the "level-scaling" or "vita-chamber" of Deus Ex 3.

Kaebis

10-05-2008, 11:15 AM

Deus Ex made plenty of money. Bioshock made plenty of money. KotOR made plenty of money. Mass Effect made plenty of money. And the list goes on. A Deus Ex 3 that actually played like Deus Ex would make itself a lot of money. It's sad that idiots wearing a suit think that the only way to make money is to copy whatever is "in" at the time. They seem to think blending in with an already crowded mass of generic shooters is the way to go.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

-=fox=-

10-05-2008, 11:31 AM

I'll never understand why people think it's ok to take a critically loved, good selling game, and change major aspects of it "just because". It makes zero sense. People want new content within the Deus Ex framework, not a Deus Ex-themed shooter. It'd be like saying "hey guys, lets play Basketball, but baskets aren't worth anything, dribbling is illegal, and it's every man for himself", and then getting miffed that people don't like it quite as much as they did the original game. It's crazy.

Well that example is flawed (:whistle: ) because there are no prequels or sequels to vanilla Basketball - only a few mods like Streetball or homegrown rules. A prequel set in another period oviously needs some things to be different, even some that affect the gameplay. I can totally see where you are coming from and I myself often wonder why devs are either overly conservative (EA Sports) or overly progressive with successfull concepts. I guess it has something to do with a "free you minds"-mentality and the creative urge but in the case of an already perfect game that seems dangerous (for fans of the original).

van_HellSing

10-05-2008, 11:34 AM

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 11:34 AM

A sequel/prequel set in a different time period does need something different. Can you guess what that something is? Because it's only one thing, really. "A different narrative". That's it. Any other changes are wholly unnecessary, and shouldn't be done unless you have a better reason than "well, we want to do it differently". If you don't want to make a Deus Ex game, then don't use the Deus Ex name, make it on your own power. Go ask FASA studios how well it works to slap a name onto something and then change what it's about and how it plays.

JCDentonMale

10-05-2008, 11:38 AM

On http://www.jeuxvideo.com/news/2008/00029251-deus-ex-3-les-premiers-details.htm we can see that the game is for PC, Xbox360 and PS3. If that's true, that's not what I can call a good news for PC users fan of DX1.

How can you make a good PC game if you have to make it pad-friendly ? Do you first develop the PC version then port it to console or from console to PC ? Please tell me that you don't limit the PC version just because of the PS3 and xbox one... Please...

For those who will argue that DX1 was ported to console too, it was originally developed for PC then 2 years later ported to console in a brided version, and that make the difference. DX 2 was developped with console gameplay in mind. As a result the PC version of DX2 wasn't what DX 1 fans expected at all. Let's expect the same mistake will not be done again about that.

It's a fact that a mouse and keyboard doesn't allow the same kind of control and immersion than a console pad. It's too much different. To my opinion, the only game that doesn't suffer too much from being initialy developped for console and ported to PC is GTA, and even there's still the clipping issue.

So if I understand you have to make some money and play the console card, I hope that's not to waste the PC version of the game because I don't think there will be anyone to wait for a decent DX4 for PC. I do hope DX 3 will, as you said, not commit the same mistakes as with DX2! Until then let's wait and see because there's no other choice :)

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 11:44 AM

As I explained in another thread, the auto-regeneration may have limitations such as working only for the lowest 20% of health; or working all the time, but with damage received lowering your maximum health until you find a medbot or something.

Lots of ways this can be made to work better.
It's still going to be easy to exploit no matter how it's handled. KotOR had the "regeneration to a certain point" feature and I milked that endlessly. And KotOR wasn't even built on a good combat engine.

Give me 20 recharging hit points and a closet to hide in, and I can destroy the videogame equivalent of The Battle of Helms Deep.

-=fox=-

10-05-2008, 11:46 AM

Well, totally different augs (because the narrative demands them) using advanced physics, (hopefully) advanced AI-behaviour, different weapons, etc... all that will have an impact on the overall gameplay and needs the devs to rethink some parts of the gameplay. In my opinion their philosophy should be to change the original's core elements as little as possible but being too dogmatic seems wrong to me. DX1 is the best game I know but I would never go so far to say that it was perfect. A new game should take the strenghts and iron out the shortcomings - especially with tremendously evolved technological possibilites at hand.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 11:46 AM

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 11:51 AM

Well, totally different augs (because the narrative demands them) using advanced physics, (hopefully) advanced AI-behaviour, different weapons, etc... all that will have an impact on the overall gameplay and needs the devs to rethink some parts of the gameplay. In my opinion their philosophy should be to change the original's core elements as little as possible but being too dogmatic seems wrong to me.

None of which require things like "auto-healing" or "busting through walls like the kool-aid man" to be present. Like I said, totally unnecessary changes. Improvements in technology shouldn't bring about the dumbing down of gameplay mechanics.

JCDentonMale

10-05-2008, 11:53 AM

Morrowind was translated over to the Xbox just fine, and that was a very complex game, even on the interface side of things. It's too easy to just say it's a console limitation. It's lazy development.

It's not too easy, it's a fact. You can't develop a game such as Deus Ex for PC and consoles and expecting the game to be good for all the platforms, for the reason that the console games have to deal with a pad with few buttons, and that's not as precise as a mouse. So the game have to be simplified (that's what DX2 did). Or make the game require a mouse and keyboard for xbox and ps3 too and then I'll shut my mouth.

-=fox=-

10-05-2008, 11:56 AM

None of which require things like "auto-healing" or "busting through walls like the kool-aid man" to be present. Like I said, totally unnecessary changes. Improvements in technology shouldn't bring about the dumbing down of gameplay mechanics. No, they shouldn't and I don't like the idea of auto-healing either. I thought the original healing system was great.

The "busting through walls"-thing strikes me as matter of personal taste. Don't use it if you don't like it. We'll see if there are well balanced alternative augs for people with other tastes.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 12:00 PM

It's not too easy, it's a fact. You can't develop a game such as Deus Ex for PC and consoles and expecting the game to be good for all the platforms, for the reason that the console games have to deal with a pad with few buttons, and that's not as precise as a mouse. So the game have to be simplified (that's what DX2 did). Or make the game require a mouse and keyboard for xbox and ps3 too and then I'll shut my mouth.
It's a fact, is it? So why did I play Morrowind on the PC and the Xbox, experience an identical user interface, gameplay experience and even (odd for a console game) the graphical option to turn shadows on and off?

It doesn't hold water. Morrowind is infinitely more complex than Deus Ex ever was, and I honestly, in a post-2003-world, cannot believe you brought up mouse-vs.-thumbstick aiming.

JCDentonMale

10-05-2008, 12:25 PM

It's a fact, is it? So why did I play Morrowind on the PC and the Xbox, experience an identical user interface, gameplay experience and even (odd for a console game) the graphical option to turn shadows on and off?

It doesn't hold water. Morrowind is infinitely more complex than Deus Ex ever was, and I honestly, in a post-2003-world, cannot believe you brought up mouse-vs.-thumbstick aiming.

I don't think Morrowind was great to play on PC but that's my opinion. So you are telling me that a game conceived for a pad can actually do as good as DX 1. Well, I hope you are right. But honestly, I don't believe it.

When you do a game, you try your best to do a good game, or you do a game for money, proposing it for a lot of platforms because console is a juicy market. It's obviously too early for any conclusion, but seeing that DX 3 will be available for multiple platforms in same time make me think it's more about making money than truly satisfying the DX 1 fans.

If someone ask me the question "so you would have only a PC version of DX 3, what about the console users ?" I will at once answer "Drop the console support". That's egoist of course. But consoles users also have some good games we'll never see on computers. Deus Ex 1 wasn't very pad-friendly, and that's very understandable. So how could DX 3 do ? That's just not believable.

That's a big problem today. That the games now aren't just as good as if they were designed for one platform - as before - making them average although they could be a hit !

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 12:29 PM

I don't think Morrowind was great to play on PC but that's my opinion. So you are telling me that a game conceived for a pad can actually do as good as DX 1. Well, I hope you are right. But honestly, I don't believe it.

When you do a game, you try your best to do a good game, or you do a game for money, proposing it for a lot of platforms because console is a juicy market. It's obviously too early for any conclusion, but seeing that DX 3 will be available for multiple platforms in same time make me think it's more about making money than truly satisfying the DX 1 fans.

If someone ask me the question "so you would have only a PC version of DX 3, what about the console users ?" I will at once answer "Drop the console support". That's egoist of course. But consoles users also have some good games we'll never see on computers. Deus Ex 1 wasn't very pad-friendly, and that's very understandable. So how could DX 3 do ? That's just not believable.
I think it's technically possible. Morrowind is a good example of a game that lost nothing in translation save for the mods. It's entirely possible to do a good, long, complex, deep game on the consoles. All it requires is for developers to drop their idea that all console gamers are grunting retards who can't handle more than 10 hours of a first person shooter.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 12:29 PM

I don't think Morrowind was great to play on PC but that's my opinion. So you are telling me that a game conceived for a pad can actually do as good as DX 1. Well, I hope you are right. But honestly, I don't believe it.

When you do a game, you try your best to do a good game, or you do a game for money, proposing it for a lot of platforms because console is a juicy market. It's obviously too early for any conclusion, but seeing that DX 3 will be available for multiple platforms in same time make me think it's more about making money than truly satisfying the DX 1 fans.

If someone ask me the question "so you would have only a PC version of DX 3, what about the console users ?" I will at once answer "Drop the console support". That's egoist of course. But consoles users also have some good games we'll never see on computers. Deus Ex 1 wasn't very pad-friendly, and that's very understandable. So how could DX 3 do ? That's just not believable.
All I'm trying to say is, if something's holding back the complexity level of Deus Ex 3, it isn't the controller. Morrowind proves that game-pads can accommodate complex games, and there's a possibility that there's a more complex console game that I don't know of.

So my point is, what will hold back Deus Ex 3's complexity is going to be Eidos Montreal. They can make a very complex game if they want to (and are allowed to by suits in marketing and QA).

AaronJ

10-05-2008, 12:29 PM

Yes, I wont lay claim to looking forward to that particular change, everything else sounded wonderful in my opinion.

Rendering your previous response moot.

van_HellSing

10-05-2008, 12:35 PM

I'll just say this: Count how many keys DX1 uses on PC. Then, count how many buttons a gamepad has.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 12:39 PM

I'll just say this: Count how many keys DX1 uses on PC. Then, count how many buttons a gamepad has.

You don't need the majority of them. Deus Ex needs...

A means for walking/looking around (sticks)
A means for crouching (click the left stick)
A means for shooting and changing ammo (right and left triggers)
A means for interacting (A button)
A means for jumping (B button)
A means for accessing the menu (X button)
A means for zooming in (click right stick)
A means for flicking your laser on/off (Y button)
A means for cycling through augmentations (right and left bumper)

I think thats about it. A lot of the keys on the PC are superfluous and not entirely necessary. Do you really need separate keys to access goals, notes, images, logs, health, augmentation, inventory, skills, etc? One button that brings you to a tabbed menu does the trick just as well.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 12:41 PM

I'll just say this: Count how many keys DX1 uses on PC. Then, count how many buttons a gamepad has.

Right, but that can be overcome by menu navigation. Most of the (non-movement (as movement is handled with thumbsticks)) buttons were just hotkeys for selecting augs or weapons. Deus Ex: Invisible War had the same control scheme down on the controller, they just took out skills and all the rest of the menu complexities. It would be a non-issue.

-=fox=-

10-05-2008, 12:46 PM

You forgot a button for "reload"

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 12:47 PM

You forgot a button for "reload"

Actually, he put that on the trigger.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 12:49 PM

Hmm...have the user change ammo in the menu, and switch that button to a reload function I guess. It'll be menu heavy, I know, but thats not really a bad thing. I think most gamers would take a menu-heavy deep, immersive game over the alternative. There's no reason to start dumbing it all down for a controller.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 12:50 PM

Actually, he put that on the trigger.

That wasn't reload, that was for different ammo types. Like you had WEP and GEP rounds for the GEP gun, different bolts for the mini-crossbow, SABOT rounds for the shotguns, etc.

pauldenton

10-05-2008, 12:51 PM

After giving it some more thought i have three main concerns.

1. third person, unless this is for cut scenes only, it won't work, it WILL break immersion.

2. the world art direction is too futuristic.
It is set before DX but somehow looks to be the same futuristic design level of invisible war. However I could be wrong as we have seen so little??

While DX was run down etc it had as someone else pointed out, building styles much like std buildings today - brick, blocky etc, and that helped it to connect with the player to something he could generally relate too without too much trouble - adding immersion. where in the new art direction i see little that relates to design today, even though this game is set closer to the present? will it end up feeling distant, alien?

3. Also really not keen on the spiderman abilities?

lastly make the game long - No 6 hour wonders please.

SubTonic20

10-05-2008, 12:52 PM

lastly make the game long - No 6 hour wonders please.

Seconded. Of all things to keep in mind, EM, make sure the game lasts more than one or two sittings.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 12:53 PM

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 12:58 PM

No 6 hour wonders please.

I didn't even consider this. Yes. This game has to be at least 20 hours. That's a minimum for RPGs. None of this 10-hour Fable stuff, or five hours for Gears of War. I don't care if it has multiplayer to supplement a short campaign. You can't make up for a short campaign plan and simple.

And don't pull a Bungie and say the game takes 15 hours to beat, when it takes six.

van_HellSing

10-05-2008, 12:59 PM

As for architecture, we've only seen Shanghai, which is futuristic even today, and that untextured building from Siggraph, which looked pretty normal.

As for interior decoration and fashion, just look at the eighties compared to now, which is more "out there"?

Bluey71

10-05-2008, 12:59 PM

I think the art direction won't be a problem. As far as I know, we've only really seen shots of a pristine laboratory, and some concept art of Shanghai. The rest of the world could be more grounded. And besides, in 2027, the world may not be in the bleak state that it's in for Deus Ex. It'd be like comparing the 20's to the 30's.

I think this is right - we've only seen a tiny tip of a huge iceburg so far.

-=fox=-

10-05-2008, 01:01 PM

I've said it before: judging from how it looks today, Shanghai could actually become one of the wealthiest metropoles by 2027 while others (namely the western metropoles) could look much more run-down and DX1/Cyberpunk-like. I think the Renaissance-touch is also quite credible in that context (of wealthy Chinese industrialists in an unleashed rush of turbo-capitalism).

Romeo

10-05-2008, 01:23 PM

You don't need the majority of them. Deus Ex needs...

A means for walking/looking around (sticks)
A means for crouching (click the left stick)
A means for shooting and changing ammo (right and left triggers)
A means for interacting (A button)
A means for jumping (B button)
A means for accessing the menu (X button)
A means for zooming in (click right stick)
A means for flicking your laser on/off (Y button)
A means for cycling through augmentations (right and left bumper)

I think thats about it. A lot of the keys on the PC are superfluous and not entirely necessary. Do you really need separate keys to access goals, notes, images, logs, health, augmentation, inventory, skills, etc? One button that brings you to a tabbed menu does the trick just as well.
I like where you started, but personally I'd like to edit it somewhat:
Scope/Laser Sights -Left trigger
Fire weapon - Right Trigger
Previous Hotkey - Left Button
Next Hotkey - RIght Button
Toggle Crouch - Click left stick
Toggle Walk/Run - Click right stick
Pick-up/Activate - A button
Jump - B button
Reload - X button
Use Hotkey - Y button
Change ammo type - D-pad up
Put weapon away - D-pad down
Lean left - D-pad left
Lean right - D-pad right

This would allow console players to still have a relatively uninterrupted experience, while still providing a fair level of control. The controls for PC players would be more or less the same, except with numbered hotkeys and less reliance on the same keys

Romeo

10-05-2008, 01:25 PM

Mr. K

10-05-2008, 01:45 PM

Okay, so i was just surfing the net and decided to check out the DX3 forums...and i was like

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-mouse-is-in-a-room-full-of-cheese.jpg

finc.Loki

10-05-2008, 01:58 PM

Well it seems this game will be just as bad as Deus Ex IW was.

I'm just deleting this entire paragraph. If you want to retype it using less than a half-dozen cuss words, feel free.

The biggest joke is they say they removed annoying things such as universal ammo.
Yet they have the nerve to remove anything RPG, the guns are completely twitch now.
Some arbitrary stats for upgradable guns that mean nothing since there is no RPG element for you actually shooting them (twitch).

Auto-heal which is just another Gears of war , COD etc etc console game.
The original Deus Ex had consequences , your legs could be crippled and you couldn't move fast etc.
Now all that has no meaning.

Cover system instead of any stealth, I mean seriously what the hell are they doing?
So now they remove another HUGE element of the game, so it can be like Rainbow six or Gears of war.
Let me guess we will now have third person view as well?

I bet it will be extremely linear and small in levels, game will probably be short too.

This is simply a money grab using a good name like Deus Ex, dragging it further down into the mud then IW did.
This is all to cater to the "new young" generation that never played the best game ever Deus ex.
So what the hell they will make money on it anyways since it is console, right...
Just like ummmm IW.:mad2:

They could call this game anything, but it has nothing to do with the original game.
I mean FFS, they knew how so many hated IW and yet they make it even worse.
What the hell is so hard with just following the PERFECTED formula of DEUS EX 1.
Just tweak whatever didn't work.

A prequel is also making the game even more pointless.
Why, well no matter what you do in the game it means nothing in the future.
You still have DEUS EX 1 and all of its conspiracy and what happen in that game.
So you really don't make anything for the better , you are a failure from beginning to the end.

Even more:
You are now "average joe blow" security guard :scratch: :eek: .
That let me guess , wants to set things straight that the baddies used him.
So now he goes from a desk jockey , that is clueless to a badass super commando with a few augmentations.

This is a turkey, a flop, at least in regards to the Deus ex genre.

I really don't care what anyone says trying to defend this debacle.
No RPG elements at all (might as well have universal ammo).
Cover system making it into Gears of war instead of Deus ex (thank you PS3 and 360).
Auto health (another console feature).
I bet my ass we will have console control system as well.
No proper PC control through mouse and Keyboard.

Lets face it this might be fun as the " we have cool augmentation action console game" but it has F-all to do with Deus ex.

Thanks for raping this even further.

Defres

10-05-2008, 02:07 PM

No worries. I'm super happy to be here, after all, I get to work on Deus Ex 3! For Eidos Montréal as a studio, the community is really important.

I hear you, I'd love to work for such a game studio.

can't wait until other articles come out. we're still walking pretty blind here.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 02:12 PM

Not really. I don't mind any other changes they've decided to throw in, so my point stands. I don't have to like every detail they release, but I like the direction as a whole.

And WhatsHisFace, excessively slow regeneration rates are another, very simple, way to balance. Perhaps you don't mind hiding in a closet for a half-hour, but I don't have the patience. And a limited and slow regeneration would be no different then hiding by a fountain or water cooler in Deus Ex. Same principle.

If the only way to get health back is for it to recharge, it better not be excessively slow. If you're down to 30% health, and it's recharging slowly, you're going to wonder why no one put health-packs in the game so you could just patch yourself up and get a move on.

Recharging health in an RPG... man, I'm cracking up right now imagining recharging health in a lousy JRPG battle.

René

10-05-2008, 02:14 PM

No RPG elements at all

Really?

Please read the magazine article.

You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons. It's a choice. There are many augmentations in the game so like the first one, you can choose how your character (Adam) develops. Choice and consequences is a major design influence. This is still a Deus Ex game.

You have city hubs to explore in a non-linear fashion. There are different routes and different ways to complete an objective. The social element is huge. There are tonnes of characters to interact with and the story is massive with a global conspiracy.

Deus Ex 3 is an RPG. An action/RPG like the first one. Please avoid posting things like the above. I know the C&VG site post was a little misleading and to have an opinion is fine, but stating something that is factual incorrect doesn't help.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 02:30 PM

You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons.

I have a couple of questions that you likely won't answer, but...

Does this mean that skill points are now being used to upgrade BOTH myself (which I took as augmentations, but might be something different) and my weapon skills, or that I can upgrade my personal skill with a particular type of weapon with a skill point OR upgrade a particular weapon, or what?

Overtime

10-05-2008, 02:31 PM

You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons. It's a choice.

wow! I missed that! Thats sounds really cool. Opens up a lot of possibilities...How will i choose?!?!? Gives the game replayability too.

I feel like asking a ton of questions on how this will be implemented now but i wont...must try to stay strong...

woot!

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 02:32 PM

Not really. I don't mind any other changes they've decided to throw in, so my point stands. I don't have to like every detail they release, but I like the direction as a whole.

And WhatsHisFace, excessively slow regeneration rates are another, very simple, way to balance. Perhaps you don't mind hiding in a closet for a half-hour, but I don't have the patience. And a limited and slow regeneration would be no different then hiding by a fountain or water cooler in Deus Ex. Same principle.

I actually wouldn't hate this, especially if it were coupled with the "only heals bottom 20%" idea. I just really hope they use an in-game explanation for it, like a pre-installed augmentation, sort of like how they used in-game explanations for JC's HUD, datalink, etc.

erionfin

10-05-2008, 02:36 PM

You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons. It's a choice. There are many augmentations in the game so like the first one, you can choose how your character (Adam) develops. Choice and consequences is a major design influence. This is still a Deus Ex game.

Hmm, so you do upgrade your weapons. What did C&VG then mean when they stated in their article/abstract that the combat system does not rely on stats, but rather on player's aim skills with his mouse? Are these weapon upgrades things like decreasing recoil and increasing damage, or maybe things like adding a scope and adding an extra large clip (or would you call this weapon modifying rather than upgrading and these two things co-exist in the game?)...

I think you're doing good job here clarifying things, I'd say that PC Zone's article was somewhat misleading in certain aspects... But clearly a major part of this panic on this forum is because some early mistakes in some user posts which tried to summarize the PC Zone article, basically the whole 3rd person scandal wouldn't be here if there wasn't a (incorrect) post on this thread stating that the whole game will be in 3rd person... :P I just hope you can bare us and continue providing information on our beloved's successor. :)

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 02:40 PM

What did C&VG then mean when they stated in their article/abstract that the combat system does not rely on stats, but rather on player's aim skills with his mouse?

Perhaps controversially this time around combat won't be influenced by stats, but will rely purely on your personal marksmanship skills. Instead stats will influence "a vast array of fully upgradeable and customisable weapons", and you'll be able to tailor your arsenal to your play style with mag upgrades, scopes and other add-ons.

Combined with what Rene said, I'm taking that to mean that you can upgrade your skill with a particular weapon, and also upgrade that weapon. So instead of being good at "pistols", I'm good with a 10mm, a stealth pistol, or a mini-crossbow, and I can further expand on that by upgrading the weapons themselves with lasers and bigger magazines and the like.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it's not really a "OMG terrible!1" thing, provided it's true. In Deus Ex, if I was focusing on pistol skill and I ran out of 10mm ammo, I still had that crossbow to fall back on. All the skills made sure you always had something to fall back on, and I'm not sure that'll be carried over with a "focus on being good at one particular weapon" system. But, I can see some advantages to it as well. Hopefully Rene can clear things up instead of letting misinformation float around and create bad word of mouth.

EDIT: well, I guess we'll get the answer in a magazine then.

René

10-05-2008, 02:42 PM

Does this mean that skill points are now being used to upgrade BOTH myself (which I took as augmentations, but might be something different) and my weapon skills, or that I can upgrade my personal skill with a particular type of weapon with a skill point OR upgrade a particular weapon, or what?

I really want to answer this, but I think our Lead Designer answers it in the magazine preview. So I better not! Sorry!

What did C&VG then mean when they stated in their article/abstract that the combat system does not rely on stats, but rather on player's aim skills with his mouse?

Again, I'm pretty sure this is in the magazine...but you know how in DX1 regardless of where you placed your mouse, if your numerical/database stat with a weapon wasn't high enough, you couldn't hit it?

minus0ne

10-05-2008, 02:51 PM

Wow, I feel like the last person to find out about all this, I thought we still had a few days wait ahead of us :p I've read three-quarters of all of Rene's clarifications, but I'm still not too sure about a few things.

I must say I'm both frightened and impressed. Mostly impressed, however, I'm really hoping this is a cruel joke from one of the people at computerandvideogames:

What's more, stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows, and damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal. There's probably going to be some debate over those two.

I'm assuming this information is false and jumping the gun on the PCZ article, right? Deus Ex has nothing to do with Gears of War or even Mass Effect, a cover system would pretty much break any hopes I had of playing a stealthy character. Without lighting which influences your visibility, there's no immersion to be had whatsoever for me (at least not playing a stealthy character, which is probably the only one I'll play repeatedly :p )

And auto-healing - I seriously hope that's an augmentation you can pick (similar to DX1, although obviously without much nanotechnology involved).

Also I'm a bit anxious as to what EM means by third person switching - does it switch when I'm crawling through a duct or something? Or when I'm grappling up a wall?

Other than that it all sounds pretty good, can't wait till we get some more concrete information.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 02:55 PM

I really hope 3rd person switches are optional. As games like "Mirror's Edge" show, you really can do things like scrambling up ledges and sticking to walls in first-person without losing anything. I'd like them to do it like Thief 3, where you can play in 1st or 3rd person just depending on how you want to do it.

Also, I'd like light to have some impact on how visible I am, but I'm fine with line-of-sight stealth. I'm a big proponent of Deus Ex being as realistic as possible, and IMO, it's more realistic to hide behind a wall than it is to hide in a shadow. But, I'd prefer a little bit of both. A system like Thief or Splinter Cell would be ideal, where there are different levels of light/noise, with some shadows only being enough to keep you concealed at a distance.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 02:58 PM

I'd like to say it doesn't bother me, but hiding in shadows is one of the KEY things I've associated with the Deus Ex experience. It was my first stealth game, and honestly, if I'm not hiding in shadows, it's not Deus Ex. It's not like it's a technical challenge to implement. What were Thief 1's system specs again?

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 03:07 PM

It's really difficult in real life to find a shadow dark enough to disappear in. Even more difficult, I imagine, when you're covered head to toe in shiny metal.

AaronJ

10-05-2008, 03:21 PM

You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons. It's a choice.

WHAT?!

Rephrase this. Experience points work the same way as the first DX, meaning upgrading medical, swimming, etc.? Or experience points upgrade your augs?

Romeo

10-05-2008, 03:48 PM

WHAT?!

Rephrase this. Experience points work the same way as the first DX, meaning upgrading medical, swimming, etc.? Or experience points upgrade your augs?
Skills, and weaponary. Exactly as it sounds mate. Think of Deus Ex.

And for everybody, here a link I think we'd all do well to look at:

http://games.tiscali.cz/news/news.asp?id=29632&r=top

Romeo

10-05-2008, 03:52 PM

If the only way to get health back is for it to recharge, it better not be excessively slow. If you're down to 30% health, and it's recharging slowly, you're going to wonder why no one put health-packs in the game so you could just patch yourself up and get a move on.

Recharging health in an RPG... man, I'm cracking up right now imagining recharging health in a lousy JRPG battle.
I didn't say things like medkits would be excluded, now did I?
I actually wouldn't hate this, especially if it were coupled with the "only heals bottom 20%" idea. I just really hope they use an in-game explanation for it, like a pre-installed augmentation, sort of like how they used in-game explanations for JC's HUD, datalink, etc.
Yes, I usually think of a reason why something would exist within a game at any given moment (view the "Mutations" thread to see what I mean. lol), however I haven't really thought of why this would. Perhaps some sort of "last minute use only" restriction. Oh well, I'll have a brilliant epiphamy later and post my awesome idea.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 03:55 PM

Skills, and weaponary. Exactly as it sounds mate. Think of Deus Ex.

And for everybody, here a link I think we'd all do well to look at:

http://games.tiscali.cz/news/news.asp?id=29632&r=top
Did you mean to send us to a website in the czech language?

jordan_a

10-05-2008, 04:02 PM

Detroit PD (right arm)??

http://games.tiscali.cz/clanek/screen_detail.asp?id=13100&img=imgr.jpg

Romeo

10-05-2008, 04:04 PM

Yep, it's been mentioned your character was an average Joe, up until a bunch of secret agents showed up. His career was apparently a policeman.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 04:04 PM

I don't think he's an average Joe, he's "private security" for a lab. Think "Blackwater Commando", not "Joe the local rent-a-cop". At least thats how I took it.

Romeo

10-05-2008, 04:07 PM

Hm... I do recall that he was a security agent, now that you mention it. Perhaps it could've been a misinterpretation on the magazine's part. Or, more likely, an over-reaching conclusion on my behalf. =P

jc_lemon_lime

10-05-2008, 05:48 PM

If I remember correctly accroding to the Deus Ex bible Paul is 11 years older and was born in 2018 so he would be 8 or 9 by 2027.

i stand corrected

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 06:04 PM

I don't think he's an average Joe, he's "private security" for a lab. Think "Blackwater Commando", not "Joe the local rent-a-cop". At least thats how I took it.

It's probably the "Project Snowblind" story again, where he's caught in the crossfire and "accidentally" becomes a mech-aug. Like Robocop too I guess.

Project Snowblind started off as a prequel to Deus Ex. I never finished it though, because the PC version is impossible to play.

3nails4you

10-05-2008, 06:07 PM

But it then veered off as an independent game not associated with DX.

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 06:10 PM

It's probably the "Project Snowblind" story again, where he's caught in the crossfire and "accidentally" becomes a mech-aug. Like Robocop too I guess.

Project Snowblind started off as a prequel to Deus Ex. I never finished it though, because the PC version is impossible to play.

I thought it started as a sequel to Invisible War? Thats what I had always heard anyways. It was "Deus Ex: Clan Wars", and you were basically fighting on behalf of one of the ending factions of Invisible War, and then they (wisely) abandoned the use of the Deus Ex name on it.

WhatsHisFace

10-05-2008, 06:49 PM

I thought it started as a sequel to Invisible War? Thats what I had always heard anyways. It was "Deus Ex: Clan Wars", and you were basically fighting on behalf of one of the ending factions of Invisible War, and then they (wisely) abandoned the use of the Deus Ex name on it.

No, it started off as a sequel to Deus Ex. Your character, Nick Frost or something, was the first person to ever be augmented.

3nails4you

10-05-2008, 07:56 PM

No, it started off as a sequel to Deus Ex. Your character, Nick Frost or something, was the first person to ever be augmented.

Um...prequel?

CarloGervasi

10-05-2008, 08:21 PM

I read the description for the game, sounds like it was a sequel. They changed some names around, but basically you were a UNATCO guy in China in the 2060s, so about 10 years after 1 and before 2.

DXeXodus

10-05-2008, 08:34 PM

Ok, so I go away for the weekend and come back to this! My word, it just took forever to read this thread.

I am very happy about 99% of what i have seen and read. The only thing which I am not over the moon about is the health issue, but I am willing to learn more about it and see where they are going with it. I always like the idea of occasional third person gameplay, so that is not a shock to me.

Style looks absolutely awesome!

Good job Eidos Montreal, way to break the mold.

Necros

10-05-2008, 08:49 PM

Thanks for the answers René! :thumbsup: I have to say I like a lot of what I've read/seen. I love the art, the gameplay and the story sounds good too.

But there are two things I'm not very happy about:
1.) It's a prequel. :( I was hoping for something between DX1 and IW, or a story with Paul or maybe a sequel to IW. But I know there are a lot of talented writers in the team and Sheldon Pacotti worked with you as well, and Warren and Harvey also gave their blessings, so I hope you will deliver a story that I'll love. :)
2.) That "bungee jumping" augmentation sounds really stupid. Why can't we have the one from DX1 that softened your fall? :confused: (I like the other one though, punching through walls is cool. :))

I really hope 3rd person switches are optional. As games like "Mirror's Edge" show, you really can do things like scrambling up ledges and sticking to walls in first-person without losing anything. I'd like them to do it like Thief 3, where you can play in 1st or 3rd person just depending on how you want to do it.
You can't switch to 3rd person at any time, it's only for taking cover. And you won't have to use that either if you don't want to, just crouch down and don't "dig in".

JCDentonMale

10-05-2008, 09:17 PM

All I'm trying to say is, if something's holding back the complexity level of Deus Ex 3, it isn't the controller. Morrowind proves that game-pads can accommodate complex games, and there's a possibility that there's a more complex console game that I don't know of.

So my point is, what will hold back Deus Ex 3's complexity is going to be Eidos Montreal. They can make a very complex game if they want to (and are allowed to by suits in marketing and QA).

Then lets hope that DX 3 PC will not suffer of the console version. Morrowind is just the exception. I so hope Deus Ex 3 is another exception. But I don't believe it, sorry.

JCDentonMale

10-05-2008, 09:37 PM

I'll just say this: Count how many keys DX1 uses on PC. Then, count how many buttons a gamepad has.

That's exactly what I mean. You can't have the same good game between one developed specifically for PC (as good old dx1 was) and a multiplatform-average-everyone-is-happy game (like dx2 was).

Do you think the developers can offer the same experience to everybody, as with the pc version when you see an enemy is coming, you can "crouch and walk silently-reload weapon-"**** they are two!" change weapon again-change ammo type-reload weapon-save-activate a specific augmentation in just 2 or 3 seconds, with a gamepad i can't imagine the amount of time, of course the game will be planed to be as easy for every users, console or PC. I do not imagine the developers to develop two different games.

The interface concepted for keyboard and mouse is very different than one for console pad. They'll have to simplify it, they just must, there's no choice.

Keyboard + mouse is just a perfect and necessary combination for such a game to be as good as the old DX1.

I'm not against console games. I'm just against multiplatform games because most of them are average games. I'm for every platform have its own games. But I know that's not anymore economically possible, as now a game is just a matter of money.

What is a pity is that the developers will have to do some compromises in the PC version just because the game is also released on console, that's just sad.

DXeXodus

10-05-2008, 10:19 PM

What I really am interested to know is how long this game is going to be. There is a reference to free-roaming environments which is promising.

finc.Loki

10-05-2008, 10:57 PM

Really?

Please read the magazine article.

You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons. It's a choice. There are many augmentations in the game so like the first one, you can choose how your character (Adam) develops. Choice and consequences is a major design influence. This is still a Deus Ex game.

You have city hubs to explore in a non-linear fashion. There are different routes and different ways to complete an objective. The social element is huge. There are tonnes of characters to interact with and the story is massive with a global conspiracy.

Deus Ex 3 is an RPG. An action/RPG like the first one. Please avoid posting things like the above. I know the C&VG site post was a little misleading and to have an opinion is fine, but stating something that is factual incorrect doesn't help.

Ok, perhaps I was a little to hasty in my concerns.
Deus Ex was and is my all time favorite game , I'm 32 so there have been a lot of them:D .
I'm usually not a "fanboy" when it comes to any game but somehow I kinda am for this one.

You say you have RPG elements but they seem more towards weapons.
See what I don't get is following:
If you don't have any RPG stats to govern the "skill" of shooting like in the old game then how could any stats regarding a gun have and bearing/impact on the character (Adam).
It simply is upgrades.
Also the skill points towards your character might be an actual RPG element, I hope.
However you make it sound like it is towards augmentations, which isn't really RPG so to speak, yet again more of an upgrade.
Granted this could work out fine anyways.

What really scares me is (obviously I don't know for sure) the rumor of some type of 3rd person gameplay with a cover system.
This you have to understand has NOTHING to do with Deus EX no matter how much the developers like it, it is a cop out.

Something to appeal to console gamers, riding on the coattails of games like Gears of war (you compete to be the same type to sell more).

Deus ex was among the very first FPS-RPG games ever, and it was very well done.

Auto-heal is also a no no.
Deus Ex had a very innovative heal system where each body part could be crippled and therefore impact your character (RPG element).
Fallout 3 is even using the same system since it is so innovative and has a huge element of gameplay and RPG.

I do like what you say about the enclave cities and being able to explore them, in a sweet cyberpunk setting.
I also have high hope for the conspiracy story, but it would be really hard to match the orginal game, but at least come close to it would be nice.

All in all more info needs to come out, but I think it is clearly a misstake and a sellout to make auto heal and 3rd person view and removing RPG elements.

They (developers) claimed to listen to the gamers when it came to IW like the universal ammo, and yet they remove any RPG element that governs the gun skills.
This just as dumb as the universal ammo.
Deus Ex was an "adult" game it was smart and didn't babysit anyone with it's story and game play.
What ever Eidos say, they are catering towards the 10 year old kiddies that was barely even born when the best game ever made was out.
Hence this game will bare the scrutiny of old-timers such as me.
Then again I doubt that will have any impact at all on either development or sales.

Alas lets await more detailed news and videos etc.
But this "news" made me very weary and reserved towards this title and it is the job of Eidos and the devs to convince me that it will live up to it.

cheers!

Loki

Please please please, don't tell me this game will be played in 3rd person mode.
I can perhaps live with it being played in 1st person all through the game and only switch to 3rd person when back against the wall or something.
This is an FPS game for F sake.

EDIT:
Ok, I have been reading more in this long thread and some questions have been answered, so disregard them.

gargar

10-05-2008, 11:04 PM

i LOVE the art style. blending renaissance with the more usuall futuristic settings is very refreshing. it takes a true kind of vision to do something like that and this more then anything else shows that this game is going to be something very special.

i like the MGS kind of stealth however, i believe that in reality shadows should play a part in stealth. in reality staying still in shadowy corner can probably shield you even if someone is looking directly at that corner.

finally no unified ammo. i don't miss it all that much.

healing overtime can be ok if done right. for instance it can be leveled with skills or augmentations. but there should still be ways to heal instantly when needed like in heated battles.

i don't really like 3rd person in my 1st person games. if it's optional then i of course don't have any problems with it. but if it's forced then this is something i'll probably won't really like. however, i am open minded about this.

for me, the story is the most important part in the game. it seems like all will be well in that department.

Dertalix

10-05-2008, 11:47 PM

Agreed. The original Deus Ex had INCREDIBLE music. The third must not disappoint.

Yes. I do think Deus Ex: Insivible War had very good music too, I dont why most people dont like it, I think it fit the game very well.

One thing that has been mentioned before, important to many die-hard fans:

Will it be possible to actually type into terminals like in DX1 (or Vampires Bloodlines)?

This is such a simple thing to program (I guess), but adds lot of immersion. The only problem today... gaming consoles have no keyboards and if the game was somehow "optimized" for consoles, chances would be low... :scratch:

That would be pretty cool. I would love it if you could type things on terminals again.

The dialogue in Mass Effect wasn't so great, in my opinion. Nothing like the dialogue in Fallout, Planescape:Torment or Deus Ex. This is a the next game in the Deus Ex series, after all - how about dialogue that's improved over Deus Ex?

I agree. I loved the dialogue of these games, especially Planescape: Torment which was just excellent. Haven't really played Mass Effect yet, the execution might be good, but I doubt it tops any of the other games when it comes to the writing.

Anyway. I want to say that I was somewhat worried about this new information until I started reading Renes clarification of things. I am optimistic and look forward to new info, screens, videos, tidbits from Rene...ANYTHING actually!

lol.

finc.Loki

10-06-2008, 12:37 AM

After been able to read more deeply into this very long thread, I'm glad to say I feel a little bit relieved in some regards.
Still some parts are sketchy.

OK, something I didn't see any info about is dialogue.
This might be revealed later down the road but I'm so curious.
Will there be lots of dialogue and will there be choices like a dialogue tree like in Mass Effect?

Will the protagonist (Adam) speak like JC did or will he remain ever silent?

Also will this game be long like Deus ex 1 was?
Can we count on a length like Mass effect which was about 45 hours in game time (for me)?

A game in the Deus Ex franchise can't be short it has to be longer so we can be consumed into the story and exploration.
Don't want it cut short making it feel like it wasn't finished.

I know you can't say much more Rene, but can you give some hints regarding my questions above :whistle: :D .

Tracer Tong

10-06-2008, 01:12 AM

Detroit PD (right arm)??

http://games.tiscali.cz/clanek/screen_detail.asp?id=13100&img=imgr.jpg

Well done! We now know another place except Shanghai!

Wow seems like Rene covered just about everything I needed.

This game is going to be PERFECT. Nothing less.

PERFECT!

PERFECT!!!! I CAN'T WAIT HELP ME :nut:

DXeXodus

10-06-2008, 01:33 AM

Stay with us TT. Don't let the hype machine flat line you!

Dead-Eye

10-06-2008, 01:51 AM

JCDentonMale

10-06-2008, 02:10 AM

I don't think the people who were disapointed by Invisible Wars will blindly buy DX 3, they will read some serious review about it. Possibly a large amount of buyers already played DX 1. Invisible Wars promised a lot, and actually it wasn't so great. So for your own good (the big jackpot if the game is a success), please developers, don't mess it up ! :)

Boiny Bunny

10-06-2008, 02:39 AM

Well 3rd person sounds...interesting...

Could work...but it's a departure from normal DX gameplay - in fact it sounds like alot of this game is going to be a departure. I guess they're trying to 'revamp' it to draw in a new crowd.

I won't be purchasing it without reading a few reviews first at least...

And HA to everybody who argued oh so pointlessly and without any merit whatsoever for so long that this game wasn't a prequel.

It was a prequel from the instant we saw that ballot box in the original trailer.

DXeXodus

10-06-2008, 02:55 AM

It is only 3rd person perspective for short moments in order to elaborate on specific moments in game-play.

I too said it was a prequel from the very beginning :D

MyImmortal

10-06-2008, 03:23 AM

Well 3rd person sounds...interesting...

Could work...but it's a departure from normal DX gameplay - in fact it sounds like alot of this game is going to be a departure. I guess they're trying to 'revamp' it to draw in a new crowd.

I can't believe this rumour is so persistent.
Please read the FACTS thread, it will help dispel all the myths before we feel a need to worry, or comment, unnecessarily:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=80786

:)

chip5541

10-06-2008, 03:44 AM

I can't believe this rumour is so persistent.

Kidding me? I dealt with teh whole Derek Smart taking on FS3 a couple of years back. It was at that point I learned I can believe anything. :nut:

3nails4you

10-06-2008, 05:35 AM

Anyone else notice that the article came out in PC zone and not...um...console....zone?

My point being, who is the target audience at this point? Let's think about it :D

Good sign, I think.

Papy

10-06-2008, 06:37 AM

it's a first person game but there are times where we want you to see Adam doing cool things.
Of all the comments, I think this one is the most interesting. The fact is I'm 39 so I don't care for "cool" things. Obviously Deus Ex 3 is for kids, not for me. Too bad.

MyImmortal

10-06-2008, 06:42 AM

Of all the comments, I think this one is the most interesting. The fact is I'm 39 so I don't care for "cool" things. Obviously Deus Ex 3 is for kids, not for me. Too bad.

Forgive me for asking, but why focus on the word 'cool' and interpret it as meaning childish gameplay only suitable for children? :confused:
Oh well, we are all different and some people find it easy to form a steadfast opinion based upon the teeny-weeniest amount of reasoning - in your case, a mere word. :p
Too bad, your loss... ;)

I'm thinking that cool means "FREAKING AWESOME" in the context Rene used. :rasp:

Kaze103

10-06-2008, 06:53 AM

Of all the comments, I think this one is the most interesting. The fact is I'm 39 so I don't care for "cool" things. Obviously Deus Ex 3 is for kids, not for me. Too bad.

What does your age mean? :P No matter the age, cool things are always cool, just because a game zooms out to show something cool really doesn't make the whole game based around it.

Maybe wait until we get more information before making a steadfast opinion, that's what I'm doing, but until now, it looks damn good.

AaronJ

10-06-2008, 08:59 AM

Just to clarify here, kissing ass and saying the game will be "perfect" isn't going to get you anywhere. Self-healing is stupid. Barrett is ----. Be honest.

SubTonic20

10-06-2008, 09:05 AM

Just to clarify here, kissing ass and saying the game will be "perfect" isn't going to get you anywhere. Self-healing is stupid. Barrett is ----. Be honest.

If self-healing is stupid, then why does nobody see any complaints about the healing augmentation of the first game? Because it was implemented well into the game's world?

Ever stop to realize that this might be the case again?

Shralla

10-06-2008, 09:15 AM

combat won't be influenced by stats, but will rely purely on your personal marksmanship skills. Instead stats will influence "a vast array of fully upgradeable and customisable weapons"
What's more, stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows, and damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal.

Yeah guys, this sounds awesome! Totally not like generic console shootan #43487348723!

RIP Deus Ex 3. It was a good run, until they actually told us anything about it.

3nails4you

10-06-2008, 09:17 AM

If self-healing is stupid, then why does nobody see any complaints about the healing augmentation of the first game? Because it was implemented well into the game's world?

Ever stop to realize that this might be the case again?

I don't think you understand. I'm pretty sure by self-healing they mean it will be kinda like the shield system from Halo. The first game didn't have that, it had an optional augmentation that healed. And that consumed bioenergy.

SubTonic20

10-06-2008, 09:18 AM

Yeah guys, this sounds awesome! Totally not like generic console shootan #43487348723!

RIP Deus Ex 3. It was a good run, until they actually told us anything about it.

: \ Ok, sure, let's all jump to conclusions now. In fact, let's all start making up video game cliches that we all know EM's going to implement and then declare our loss of faith in a developer team who is still in the middle of making their game.

Bah. You people are the saddest bunch I've seen since I visited the Fallout 3 boards.

3nails4you

10-06-2008, 09:22 AM

Why do people assume it's console-focused? THE DETAILS CAME OUT IN PC ZONE! PC meaning NOT CONSOLE.

SubTonic20

10-06-2008, 09:23 AM

I don't think you understand. I'm pretty sure by self-healing they mean it will be kinda like the shield system from Halo. The first game didn't have that, it had an optional augmentation that healed. And that consumed bioenergy.

Ah, I knew you'd counter me with the energy consumption. Let me get something straight here...

I'm in the Realistic difficulty setting. I'm in the later game, wondering how I'm going to get past this rather large group of MJ12 troops in one of the early buildings at the Missile Silo. I activate my "totally optional and fair" augmentations of Regeneration, Ballistic Protection, and Power Recirculator.

I can now walk inside, gun them down, laugh as they shoot at me with very limited effect, and be fully healed by the time I kill the last guy.

Yeah, self-healing in Deus Ex 3 is a cheat and a potential game breaker, just as that strategy described above is.

Stop being crybabies and wait for some information before you dump gasoline onto your hopes and dreams and throw a lit match onto them.

Shralla

10-06-2008, 09:32 AM

: \ Ok, sure, let's all jump to conclusions now. In fact, let's all start making up video game cliches that we all know EM's going to implement and then declare our loss of faith in a developer team who is still in the middle of making their game.

Bah. You people are the saddest bunch I've seen since I visited the Fallout 3 boards.

Don't you even try to say we're worse than NMA. NOTHING is worse than NMA.

What we know:

Cover system
Automatic health regen
No skills
Some sort of reverse time flow, which is the only logical explanation for them having technology in 2027 that they didn't in 2052
Weapon mod system (which somehow takes the place of skills even though they had both in the original :confused:)
Augment system that includes BUNGEE JUMPING TENTACLES

All signs thus far point to fail. Deus Ex 3 will release and drown in a sea of mediocrity, just like the rest of the average shooters out there.

Honestly with all this, there is very little that could convince me to buy it, short of "MORE CONVERSATION OPTIONS THAN MASS EFFECT."

EDIT:

I'm in the later game

Key phrase. You SHOULD be able to do that in the later game. That's the entire idea of an RPG. You get better as the game goes on. You should not have automatic regeneration from the beginning of the game, especially in a world which is obviously not capable of it, otherwise they would have had it 25 years later.

WhatsHisFace

10-06-2008, 09:33 AM

If self-healing is stupid, then why does nobody see any complaints about the healing augmentation of the first game? Because it was implemented well into the game's world?

Ever stop to realize that this might be the case again?

Because when health-regeneration is an extra, and not a fundamental game mechanic, the balancing of the game is built around that. When health regeneration is foundational, the structure of the game changes as to if it were a luxury.

SubTonic20

10-06-2008, 09:36 AM

Because when health-regeneration is an extra, and not a fundamental game mechanic, the balancing of the game is built around that. When health regeneration is foundational, the structure of the game changes as to if it were a luxury.

Read my above post, then add to it the fact that it is extremely easy to maintain Bioelectric Energy in the game. Whether or not self-healing is part of the game's optional features or something pre-existing, it is still there and calling DX3's a game-breaker (BEFORE the game's out, I might add) and not calling it so in DX1, is hypocritical and painfully stupid.

SubTonic20

10-06-2008, 09:38 AM

Key phrase. You SHOULD be able to do that in the later game. That's the entire idea of an RPG. You get better as the game goes on. You should not have automatic regeneration from the beginning of the game, especially in a world which is obviously not capable of it, otherwise they would have had it 25 years later.

You forgot the other key phrase: Realistic Difficulty. Heh.

Oh, and don't even attempt to bring the "world isn't capable" nonsense up in this argument, as that has been debunked several times now.

There is no justifying a system just because it exists in the game that YOU or any other people happen to like. It doesn't work like that.

Shralla

10-06-2008, 09:39 AM

Difficulty doesn't matter.

SubTonic20

10-06-2008, 09:42 AM

Difficulty doesn't matter.

It does. Don't contradict me without giving me a reason for it. That's not exactly what I would call a reasonable discussion.

Difficulty does, in fact, matter. I'm bringing up valid points and all of the people who just can't let DX1 go counter against them with things like that. Annoying...

Shralla

10-06-2008, 09:45 AM

Difficulty doesn't matter because regardless of difficulty, you should still end up a badass [insert verb here] machine towards the end of the game. Regeneration was not a core gameplay mechanic implemented from the beginning. It is, again, a dumbing down of the system to appeal to a wider audience.

WhatsHisFace

10-06-2008, 09:45 AM

Read my above post, then add to it the fact that it is extremely easy to maintain Bioelectric Energy in the game. Whether or not self-healing is part of the game's optional features or something pre-existing, it is still there and calling DX3's a game-breaker (BEFORE the game's out, I might add) and not calling it so in DX1, is hypocritical and painfully stupid.

An instance where item conservation allowed you to move through a particular area of the game with (allegedly) relative ease doesn't counter the argument that base-level regenerating health is a weakness.

Shralla

10-06-2008, 09:47 AM

I'm bringing up valid points and all of the people who just can't let DX1 go counter against them with things like that. Annoying...

Also you completely ignored the entire first half of my first response to you, so... Pot, kettle, etc?

SubTonic20

10-06-2008, 09:52 AM

-Sigh- This will be the last post I bring forth on the matter, because it's become irritatingly clear to me that any changes made to the the original Deus Ex will be considered heresy among its fanatical, stubborn fanbase (which greatly saddens me, seeing as I love the original game infinitely myself).

I'm sick and tired of having my efforts wasted by whiners who don't even remotely understand the concept of change, especially in the gaming industry. Self-Healing, while mentioned briefly in a magazine article, has not been explained to us (which has ended up being the biggest mistake EM will ever make in their pregame period), so instead of civilly discussing the matter, everyone jumped to one side or the other and started bickering.

This is such a typical reaction by a group of people, a group of actually respected days before, that it just blows my mind. I simply can't believe why human beings are STILL simple enough to act like such babies.

Yes, there will be changes. If you can't accept some of them, or in many cases, ANY of them, then do the community a favor and shove your head back up your ass. I'm tired of this childish arguing that makes GameFaqs look like a mature community.

Why can't you all just TALK about the damn information instead of ***** over your own biased, negative, stubborn assumptions? What in the hell is WRONG with you people? Christ, I just can't believe it. No matter what I say, more and more people on here will make me wish I had never even been introduced to Deus Ex in the first place. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

Shralla

10-06-2008, 10:12 AM

SubTonic20

10-06-2008, 10:16 AM

Speaking of jumping to one side or the other.

The article said "damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal." Everyone knows how Call of Duty handles regeneration. You get shot, you run off, automatically heal up, and come back for more. "Call of Duty-style" IS an explanation, so don't say it wasn't explained to us.

And yet the game is still heavy in development...That does it. I'm removing myself from this nursery and going somewhere I can tolerate, like a prison yard. : \

3nails4you

10-06-2008, 10:17 AM

Ah, I knew you'd counter me with the energy consumption. Let me get something straight here...

I'm in the Realistic difficulty setting. I'm in the later game, wondering how I'm going to get past this rather large group of MJ12 troops in one of the early buildings at the Missile Silo. I activate my "totally optional and fair" augmentations of Regeneration, Ballistic Protection, and Power Recirculator.

I can now walk inside, gun them down, laugh as they shoot at me with very limited effect, and be fully healed by the time I kill the last guy.

Yeah, self-healing in Deus Ex 3 is a cheat and a potential game breaker, just as that strategy described above is.

Stop being crybabies and wait for some information before you dump gasoline onto your hopes and dreams and throw a lit match onto them.

You need to take a chill pill. I haven't said a single thing positive or negative towards the self-healing system. You are the only one being hostile here about anything. Go outside for a while, maybe take a walk. You need to chill out and get your head straight. You are getting way too worked up over this.

And yet the game is still heavy in development...That does it. I'm removing myself from this nursery and going somewhere I can tolerate, like a prison yard. : \

The only person whining here is you. People can hope for something in a game that is, as you say, heavy in development. People aren't necessarily making assumptions, just stating what they think or hope about information that hasn't been revealed yet. YOU, on the other hand, ASSUME that everyone has a hostile and judgmental tone about the game and jump down everyone's throats. You bring up a nice point. You aren't grown up enough for a nursery yet.

Red

10-06-2008, 10:19 AM

SubTonic, you're just battling the windmills... I suggest you do the same as I do... Only lurk for some useful info, wait for René to post. :)

I know, sometimes it's real hard to do so, since you can see a wide variety of loonies here, but what can you do, **** happens. At least you don't spend your energy on pointless arguements.

Shralla

10-06-2008, 10:19 AM

And yet the game is still heavy in development...That does it. I'm removing myself from this nursery and going somewhere I can tolerate, like a prison yard. : \

Yes, and there is still ample time for it to change. And what better way to GET it to change than to make our grievances known?

WhatsHisFace

10-06-2008, 10:22 AM

And yet the game is still heavy in development...That does it. I'm removing myself from this nursery and going somewhere I can tolerate, like a prison yard. : \

So because the game is "still heavy in development" we're to believe... what exactly? That this entire article is proposing a "what if?" version of Deus Ex 3?

No. This is an article describing the magazine's impressions of Deus Ex 3 and the developers intentions with it. All presented information is valid. Eidos wouldn't bring a magazine to cover their presentation for a "theory" of what Deus Ex 3 could be. The game has been in development for quite some time now.

MyImmortal

10-06-2008, 10:25 AM

And yet the game is still heavy in development...That does it. I'm removing myself from this nursery and going somewhere I can tolerate, like a prison yard. : \

Hehe, Butcher's Bay perhaps? :D

I feel for you... but don't worry.
In cases like this, just point people to the FACTS thread and let them digest the information.
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=80786

Then, if they come back to make any points, it will at least be based on what has been said by the powers-that-be and not what they assume from their own head or a magazine editorial.
Anything else said is based on hearsay/rumours/misinterpretation AND yet unfinished game development.

Hopefully... hehe. ;)

René

10-06-2008, 11:15 AM

OK, something I didn't see any info about is dialogue.
This might be revealed later down the road but I'm so curious.
Will there be lots of dialogue and will there be choices like a dialogue tree like in Mass Effect?

Will the protagonist (Adam) speak like JC did or will he remain ever silent?

Also will this game be long like Deus ex 1 was?
Can we count on a length like Mass effect which was about 45 hours in game time (for me)?

A game in the Deus Ex franchise can't be short it has to be longer so we can be consumed into the story and exploration.
Don't want it cut short making it feel like it wasn't finished.

I know you can't say much more Rene, but can you give some hints regarding my questions above :whistle: :D .

I think most of what you're asking will be in each magazine's article so I should avoid answering that here. Sorry.

pauldenton

10-06-2008, 11:17 AM

Yesterday, 01:58 PM #291
finc.Loki
New Player

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4

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Well it seems this game will be just as bad as Deus Ex IW was.

I'm just deleting this entire paragraph. If you want to retype it using less than a half-dozen cuss words, feel free.

The biggest joke is they say they removed annoying things such as universal ammo.
Yet they have the nerve to remove anything RPG, the guns are completely twitch now.
Some arbitrary stats for upgradable guns that mean nothing since there is no RPG element for you actually shooting them (twitch).

Auto-heal which is just another Gears of war , COD etc etc console game.
The original Deus Ex had consequences , your legs could be crippled and you couldn't move fast etc.
Now all that has no meaning.

Cover system instead of any stealth, I mean seriously what the hell are they doing?
So now they remove another HUGE element of the game, so it can be like Rainbow six or Gears of war.
Let me guess we will now have third person view as well?

I bet it will be extremely linear and small in levels, game will probably be short too.

This is simply a money grab using a good name like Deus Ex, dragging it further down into the mud then IW did.
This is all to cater to the "new young" generation that never played the best game ever Deus ex.
So what the hell they will make money on it anyways since it is console, right...
Just like ummmm IW.

They could call this game anything, but it has nothing to do with the original game.
I mean FFS, they knew how so many hated IW and yet they make it even worse.
What the hell is so hard with just following the PERFECTED formula of DEUS EX 1.
Just tweak whatever didn't work.

A prequel is also making the game even more pointless.
Why, well no matter what you do in the game it means nothing in the future.
You still have DEUS EX 1 and all of its conspiracy and what happen in that game.
So you really don't make anything for the better , you are a failure from beginning to the end.

Even more:
You are now "average joe blow" security guard .
That let me guess , wants to set things straight that the baddies used him.
So now he goes from a desk jockey , that is clueless to a badass super commando with a few augmentations.

This is a turkey, a flop, at least in regards to the Deus ex genre.

I really don't care what anyone says trying to defend this debacle.
No RPG elements at all (might as well have universal ammo).
Cover system making it into Gears of war instead of Deus ex (thank you PS3 and 360).
Auto health (another console feature).
I bet my ass we will have console control system as well.
No proper PC control through mouse and Keyboard.

Lets face it this might be fun as the " we have cool augmentation action console game" but it has F-all to do with Deus ex.

Thanks for raping this even further.

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Last edited by Romeo : Today at 12:21 AM.

Really?

Please read the magazine article.

You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons. It's a choice. There are many augmentations in the game so like the first one, you can choose how your character (Adam) develops. Choice and consequences is a major design influence. This is still a Deus Ex game.

You have city hubs to explore in a non-linear fashion. There are different routes and different ways to complete an objective. The social element is huge. There are tonnes of characters to interact with and the story is massive with a global conspiracy.

Deus Ex 3 is an RPG. An action/RPG like the first one. Please avoid posting things like the above. I know the C&VG site post was a little misleading and to have an opinion is fine, but stating something that is factual incorrect doesn't help.

I'll tell you what really scares me right now Rene,

That you didnt answer his points reguarding the

1. cover system

2. auto health

in which it appears he is totally correct in his assumptions?
If he is correct then i am seriously dissapointed and it is clear you have not listened to the fan base as much as you would like us to believe!
please tell me i am wrong as i would like to have faith in this game and its developement team.

René

10-06-2008, 11:20 AM

Forgive me for asking, but why focus on the word 'cool' and interpret it as meaning childish gameplay only suitable for children? :confused:
I'm thinking that cool means "FREAKING AWESOME" in the context Rene used. :rasp:

That's just the way I talk. Sorry about that. Me dumb.

By the way, I think Rob Zombie is cool. Er, I mean "freaking awesome".

René

10-06-2008, 11:23 AM

What we know:

No skills

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41963/Deus-Ex-3-is-an-RPG-According-to-Eidos

You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons. It's a choice. We have many augmentations in the game so like the first one, you can choose how your character develops. Choice and consequences is a major design influence. This is still a Deus Ex game.

C&VG made an update: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198691&site=pcz

finc.Loki

10-06-2008, 11:48 AM

It does. Don't contradict me without giving me a reason for it. That's not exactly what I would call a reasonable discussion.

Difficulty does, in fact, matter. I'm bringing up valid points and all of the people who just can't let DX1 go counter against them with things like that. Annoying...

Honestly you fail at your "auto-heal" argument.
Very simple, that auto-regeneration Aug was a choice, some chose other Aug's.

This system in DX3 is not a choice it simply is.

Another point is that DX1 did have location based damage and heal system, DX3 doesn't , well as far as the information goes.

Let people have their opinions without you playing advocate for Eidos.

I plan to be optimistic about this game even though some areas remain "sketchy".

If they have a really great story, long game play that last many many hours.
Many dialogue options , free-roam and consequences.
Then it will still be better ( I hope ) then IW.

I also at times try to think about this game as something new, without the DX1 stigma so to speak.
If one look at it that way this game looks awesome, really cool graphics and lots of interesting options.
Something I would definitely get on day one.

I find it kinda funny to read that they dropped the universal ammo cause the fans thought it was silly and then they go and make auto-heal which basically falls into the same bracket of console feature.
Also they removed the RPG element of skills when it comes to combat, another "consolized " (is that even a word ;) ) feature, making it simple.

I won't give up just yet, I guess my hunger for anything DX outweighs not having it at all.

Edit:

I see my first post made is borderline hysterical ( I just found out and only saw red).
It came of as a rant and frankly at times almost childish with too many cuss words.
Later posts are more indicative on my stance for the time being. :)

MyImmortal

10-06-2008, 12:05 PM

C&VG made an update: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198691&site=pcz

Sorted, glad there is an update out there. :thumbsup:

René

10-06-2008, 12:25 PM

Also they removed the RPG element of skills when it comes to combat

This is my personal opinion here, but I like this fact. If I'm good with my keyboard and mouse, I should be able to hit a target five feet in front of me. I don't need some number in a database telling me I'm not good enough to hit it from such a short range.

I can still upgrade my augmentations' statistics and customize all my weapons. There's plenty of stats to go around.

René

10-06-2008, 12:33 PM

I'll tell you what really scares me right now Rene,

That you didnt answer his points reguarding the

1. cover system
2. auto health

Sorry Pauldenton, but I do have this 9-5 job which means I can't be on the Internet all day. :) All joking aside, the following should answer your query. There are some things I shouldn’t say too much about since the magazines will have most of this info, but I’ll address three of the biggest concerns so far.

Auto Health
Yes, Deus Ex 3 will use auto-health regeneration. This is a departure from the original but the industry as a whole has grown up and changed quite a bit in the last eight years and the designers didn’t want people exploring levels just for health packs or having to reload to an old save game because they messed up a scenario and couldn’t advance. I know some people actually liked the exact scenario I just described but this is a decision the team made.

Cover System
The design has been updated to utilize a cover system should you choose to engage it. As the game is still 1st person, it’s only if you press a key when up against a wall that the view changes to a 3rd person perspective. As soon as you move away from the wall, the game returns to 1st person automatically.

So it's just an option if you want to play that way. If you like the good 'ol DX1 style, you don't have to engage the cover system if you don't want to, so you'll see even less of the contextual 3rd person elements. You can just as easily walk up to that same wall in 1st person and never see the 3rd person cover. It’s just an option if you want to see the way Adam looks with augmentations you’ve chosen throughout the game.

Stealth System
Stealth in DX3 is based off line-of-sight and sound propagation. You can hide everywhere you see fit as long as you’re hidden by an obstacle and you don’t produce too much noise. Think MGS1&2. In the first DX an enemy could be three feet in front of you but as long as you were in darkness he would not detect you. I mean, graphically in DX3, you still have light and shadows but the shadows are no longer used as the primary stealth element; it’s line-of-sight.

And in the end, because of how a Deus Ex game should work (and DX3 does), depending on your play style, everyone’s experience will be different. There are many ways to advance in the game or to solve a problem. To some, the above three aspects may sound like heresy, but Deus Ex is so much more than these three things.

To me, Deus Ex is about choices & consequences, non-linearity, customization, different ways to complete an objective, story, dialogue, character interaction, a Cyberpunk world, a massive conspiracy, etc. All aspects Deus Ex 3 has in spades.

Defres

10-06-2008, 01:06 PM

This is my personal opinion here, but I like this fact. If I'm good with my keyboard and mouse, I should be able to hit a target five feet in front of me. I don't need some number in a database telling me I'm not good enough to hit it from such a short range.

I can still upgrade my augmentations' statistics and customize all my weapons. There's plenty of stats to go around.

I couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly how I feel and hope the game would have this.

I also don't want to be able to hit a single water drop 400 meters up in the sky with my pistol, blindfolded, just because I happened to have used all my points in the pistol skill.
Games that determinate automatically where I hit my target without me actually doing anything or being able to hit anything in reality are lame as hell, combat wise.
It also spoils and babysits those who can't hit a wall while inside a house.
Takes all the challenge away, is nowhere near rewarding as a hit done by your true hand & eye coordination skill. It also removes a great deal of immersion and intensity of combat situations and the game atmosphere in general.

Great to know this won't be the case, although I never really suspected it :P

ricwhite

10-06-2008, 02:05 PM

Thanks for the clarifying information, Rene. I'm looking forward to reading the actual articles. I wish they'd hurry up and release them.

Auto Health
Yes, Deus Ex 3 will use auto-health regeneration.

I think most games are moving away from health packs to re-generation systems, so it didn't surprise me at all that DX3 does this. I think most predicted this. I don't know why so many are viewing it negatively.

Cover System
The design has been updated to utilize a cover system should you choose to engage it. As the game is still 1st person, it’s only if you press a key when up against a wall that the view changes to a 3rd person perspective. As soon as you move away from the wall, the game returns to 1st person automatically.

Excellent information here. (Why did you wait so long to say this). So, the 3rd person view is a CHOICE and can be employed in PLAYABLE portions of stealth areas. Personally, I don't like 3rd person views, so I might just keep it in 1st person all the way, but I'm willing to try it out.

Stealth System
Stealth in DX3 is based off line-of-sight and sound propagation. You can hide everywhere you see fit as long as you’re hidden by an obstacle and you don’t produce too much noise.

Personally, I liked the shadow hiding in DX1. I could crouch and linger in a shaded area while watching and listening to hostiles. Since stealth in DX3 is line-of-sight only, it means that not only can't the hostiles see you while you're hiding, but YOU can't see them. One of the appeals of the DX1 game I liked was the fact that I could be hidden from view in shadows while the hostiles were not hidden from me and I could "spy" on them. It sounds as if "spying" is very difficult in DX3.

To me, Deus Ex is about choices & consequences, non-linearity, customization, different ways to complete an objective, story, dialogue, character interaction, a Cyberpunk world, a massive conspiracy, etc. All aspects Deus Ex 3 has in spades.

That's the HEART of DX, IMO. Choices, consequences, customization, story, dialogue, conspiracies, and characterization. As long as these elements are there, I can deal with the different health and stealth systems.

pauldenton

10-06-2008, 02:12 PM

To some, the above three aspects may sound like heresy, but Deus Ex is so much more than these three things.

To me, Deus Ex is about choices & consequences, non-linearity, customization, different ways to complete an objective, story, dialogue, character interaction, a Cyberpunk world, a massive conspiracy, etc. All aspects Deus Ex 3 has in spades.

Déjà vu

We heard the same arguments for invisible war changes!
But like Harvey, your team lead knows better than the hard core fans and their outdated views of a game still considered one of the best ever made. Though strange that i never heard any DX1 health system gripes before - which was all part of the much loved DX gameplay.

However i have heard many auto heal (which is nothing new or advanced) gripes about other games where it has been incorporated!

Auto heal - the new universal ammo?

or will the new non DX like stealth/cover system break it?

Time will tell, but one things for sure, just like invisible war, it appears that much of what was the legendary gameplay of DX has been ripped out and thrown away, regardless of what has been left in.

You haven't listened to the community and you are not listening now. The community wanted refinement of a near perfect game system - not this trashing and disregard.

I predict Invisible war 2, I hope i am wrong - we shall see.

Overtime

10-06-2008, 02:16 PM

Tracer Tong

10-06-2008, 02:23 PM

Just to clarify here, kissing ass and saying the game will be "perfect" isn't going to get you anywhere. Self-healing is stupid. Barrett is ----. Be honest.

Stop it. There's a perfectly good idea why the auto-heal system exists. I put all of my trust in Eidos Montreal with the rights to produce the game as they see fit (that is, until the game comes out). So far René has come up with logical conclusions which came from the entire team, and seem fair. This game is still going to be two levels above the other games of its release date, as DX1 has always been.

René: Will philosophy still be an integral part of DX3? That's one of the major features that made DX1 what it is. (after all, jumping with tentacles seems pretty jaw-dropping and mind-boggling for the average 2027 un-augmented Joe)

ewanlaing

10-06-2008, 02:26 PM

You know, the more of Rene's posts I read, the more excited I get about the game's direction.:thumbsup:

Even the things i didnt like upon first reading dont seem as bad now.
And ive never been on a forum where a dev has given so much info and spent so much time on the forums.

thx

Quoted for truth. Initially the info and shots were a little jarring, but I guess I was expecting DX 1, but with better graphics. What we actually have is a new step forward for the gameplay.

Heck, I'm even starting to like the sound of the prequel storyline!

By the way, I'm not sure if Rene can answer this, but does the 3rd person option mean that we can look down and see ourselves in 1st person a'la Crysis, Butcher Bay and Thief etc?

Laokin

10-06-2008, 02:36 PM

Personally, I liked the shadow hiding in DX1. I could crouch and linger in a shaded area while watching and listening to hostiles. Since stealth in DX3 is line-of-sight only, it means that not only can't the hostiles see you while you're hiding, but YOU can't see them. One of the appeals of the DX1 game I liked was the fact that I could be hidden from view in shadows while the hostiles were not hidden from me and I could "spy" on them. It sounds as if "spying" is very difficult in DX3.

Not trying to be rude or anything but, that IS what the 3rd person camera is for. It's not to see Adam, that is a perk or bonus. 3rd person accepts a higher FoV (Field of View), which equates to more peripheral vision. You will be able to see over Adam's head and around the sides of the wall/box/door. Otherwise the Aug that lets you see the vision cones would be useless, as you would have to stand in plain sight to see if the enemy could see you or not. Not much changes with this system.... just the camera perspective, all your fundamentals remain intact.

dimaf1985

10-06-2008, 02:49 PM

Well here are my two cents, hopefully Rene will be able to address this:

The auto-health system is an awful idea. I read what Rene said about it, but he seems to be mistaking the idea of "growing up" with the idea of "dumbing down." Im sorry if this is an overly negative comment, Rene, but quite frankly, and I think most PC gamers will agree, video games have gotten less strategy-oriented and more action oriented due to the proliferation of console titles (*cough* Halo *cough*). By and large, this is a market that consists of casual gamers who couldn't care for quality strategy-based gameplay because they're too busy mashing the buttons on their gampad so they can see a big explosion and lots of aliens die. God forbid they would be bothered to figure out a way to heal their wounds after a hard-fought battle. Instead they can just stand still for a couple of seconds while their health bar regenerates. While this works great for titles that are purely action-oriented, this is not something that fits into the DX usniverse. One of the key elements of good RPG gameplay is the extra time spent to scavenge for items that necessitate survival. For such an old game, DX sure did a great job of expanding upon this theory by creating injuries to separate body parts, resulting in different consequences (unsteady aim, reduced movement speed). If anything, the industry should be moving towards the style of Far Cry 2 and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. where healing is not only necessary, becuase otherwise you'll bleed out, but is also represented with realistic animations. Instead DX3 chose to take a step backward by ignoring the issue altogether to focus the player towards a more action-oriented experience. This type of consolization is exactly what fans were dreading and it seems our fears are coming true.

Lack of weapons skills was one of the complaints about IW. Now, if done properly it may still work in DX3. In STALKER, there are no weapons skills, yet the combat is still exceptionally challenging. However, where there are no weapons skills, there are weapons STATS. I hope Rene would be able to clarify what exactly these "weapon upgrades" entail. There is a fine line between upgrades and stat upgrades. In DX1, upgrades meant that your recoil stat, or your reload time stat or some other stat would be reduced incrementally. Bioshock, on the other hand, PROMISED weapon upgrades but instead what we got was some sink faucet or other piece of scrap metal that got attached to a tommy gun, and all of a sudden reduced recoil to 0. I agree that you should be able to hit an enemy from five feet away, but if your gun is a piece of crap, you might hit him with the first shot, but the second shot might be harder because of bad recoil, possible jamming etc. This can be fixed by tweaking the weapon or altering the mechanism to REDUCE such negative factors, but if weapon upgrades in DX3 means slapping on some gadget then we've got a big problem.

The cover system is a neat idea. It'll be unique to experience that in the DX universe. However, I hope this doesnt take away from the bleak looks of the world. Which brings me to my next point. The screenshots. OK look, I dont know what the game is gonna look like, neither does anyone else but the devs. Level design looks kinda cool, hard to judge though, gotta see more. Here's the deal breaker for me: Bloom. If i see gameplay footage with all kinds of bloomy lighting, a la DXIW, and more notably Bioshock, Im not buying this game. DX1 had crummy looking, poorly lit environments, that took place at night and highlighted the seedy underworld of crime and corruption. More imporatantly, it looked much like the world or today, brick buildings, badly paved roads, paper and plastic, etc, etc. Creating an almost alternate-universe type of level design just wont fly. Even with the cover system, there should be shadows, and dark alleyways, and abandoned buildings. I hope that this change to the stealth element of the gameplay doesnt significantly alter the bleak vision of the future that was so integral to the atmosphere of DX1.

ewanlaing

10-06-2008, 03:26 PM

Every modern FPS, and nearly every other game today has bloom.

The difference is how well it's done.

Look at Crysis, where it's almost spot-on.

Or, if you want gritty, look at the Condemned games.

Romeo

10-06-2008, 03:46 PM

I also think Fallout 3 does not a half-bad job regarding bloom. If there's a nuclear sun behind someone, sure, you're not going to be able to see them past the light, but if it's someone standing in front of a lamp, you'll be able to see them fine. Just my opinion, of course.

piippo

10-06-2008, 03:56 PM

I haven't read the magazine, but it's something I intend to do when I get the proper change to buy the magazine. It's considerably harder to buy such magazine outside here in Finland. So, that said, all my impressions are based on the magazine article.

The "bad" first, I am not really sure what I think about the design of the said character "Barrett". In a way it's bit overdone, but that's all good since we all remember Gunther. Something just feels a bit too generic in that design - hair / face - not really that rememorable. This a small issue, but it's the way I felt first time I saw those scans. This is a minor issue, but I had to be honest.

The to the good parts. I think the Deus Ex 3 has nailed the look, it's very Deus Ex and looks fantastic. Very very visually appealing. I new you were on the right tracks when I saw the teaaser and the first concept art. It felt like proper Deus Ex game. I am glad that you have decided to take this bit "different" art style, in someways bit stylized look. It looks great, even from the lowres scans. I would like to congratulate the art department, it's really spot on.

I am very assured that You guys at Eidos Montreal will make this game a proper sequel. I understand the changes that you've discussed, and most of them sound good, if not great. Also, it's very reassuring to hear that You have concentrated on the feel, and on the RPG side too. You have to two games to compare to, Deus Ex and Deus Ex: IW - I hope You guys keep to the word of being true to the Deus Ex :)

It's a hardmarket to make games today, but as long as You stay true the vision, which I believe to be a good vision, it will be hopefully a great game. Multilayered story, multiple locations and all that sounds like You guys and gals really are enthusiastic about making this game. I am bit jelous of not being part of the development team, but what's better - I get the play the finished game ;)

I hope that in the coming months you will reveal the game a bit more, maybe more concept arts? Once a month? ;) I like looking at those, that's for sure.

Thank you René too, for answering some of the questions. That's bit rare nowdays, but I bet those answers calmed a lot of people down - including me.

AsukaoYl

10-06-2008, 03:57 PM

Is there anyway i can buy the PC Zone 200th issue from NYC?

Gunter Herman

10-06-2008, 04:00 PM

Yes, Deus Ex 3 will use auto-health regeneration.

But how fast? STALKER has auto-health, too, but it's very, very slow and doesn't help in combat (especially when bleeding, too). It can be used as a last resort to hide from enemies, but you still need medpacks in combat. That's a balanced way of doing it IMO.

By the way, in STALKER you can get small bits of health also from food - why couldn't there be candy bars or whatever in DX3, so you don't have to search for medpacks?

But "industry has grown up" really more sounds like an euphemism for "simplification". And I fear indeed that DX3's auto-health is aimed at simplifying the game for "Casual Dentons", I mean: "Jensens"...

If you don't even want people to reload a game, does it mean you want them to never die while playing? :confused:

This reminds me of Bioshock, which also was very, very easy (except for some Big Daddies) - even the final bossfight was over in a minute! What a disappointment - in spite of the fantastic design. Bioshock was a spiritual sequel to a 1998 cult game, but now, with all the consoles, "industry had grown up", and everything was made... simpler, easier. ****

I'd put it differently: Consoles are still in their "arcade phase"... :rasp:

Romeo

10-06-2008, 04:01 PM

dimaf1985

10-06-2008, 04:02 PM

Every modern FPS, and nearly every other game today has bloom.

The difference is how well it's done.

Look at Crysis, where it's almost spot-on.

Or, if you want gritty, look at the Condemned games.

What i meant was im hoping to see dynamic lighting, and real-time shadows, not the pre-rendered neon crap we got in Bioshock and DXIW.

Condemned is a very good example. Another would be Manhunt, particularly the latter levels.

Bloodwolf806

10-06-2008, 04:04 PM

The number of PC fanboys on this forum is astounding.

van_HellSing

10-06-2008, 04:08 PM

What did you expect from a Deus Ex forum, one of the best games for PC, that had a bad sequel "paralelly developed" for the Xbox.

piippo

10-06-2008, 04:14 PM

I'm glad you can stereotype all us console players into those "who enjoy big explosion and dying aliens". If you want to exhibit a sign of maturity, you'd do well to choose your words more carefully.

PS, don't know if you heard the update, but Far Cry 2 IS using an auto-regen, unlike it's predesescor.

That's an issue, but PC gamers have their reasons. To clarify I have played on both consoles and PC. Usually I owned both at the same time, but from this generation I don't own a console.

The quality of multiplatform games was dubious in the recent years, often PC players felt neglegted when the PC version felt like a cheap port from console to PC. That has left certain "consolification" thing on the air, there are good games that don't suffer from this, but still. The bad examples often are the most easy to remember.

It's not totally fair to say that there wouldn't be certain examples of this. When PC version suffers due mainly focusing on the console version. Oblivion comes to mind, but BioShock was done rather well. Gladly Bethesda learned from this and Fallout 3 has taken PC into consideration too - UI and all those aspects.

You have to take certain restriction to mind when making a multiplatform game, the magic is how you can make it seem good on both PC and console. Since usually the console version is the version that developer moves by, meaning limitations are from that said platform also.

Considering Deus Ex 3, I can't see why couldn't it work really good on both PC and on consoles. Usually it's more down to lazy developers or most likely too short time if the PC version feels too watered down.

That's my small take on the issue. PC gamers tend to be very fanatic of their said platform, I know atleast that I am ;)

piippo

10-06-2008, 04:19 PM

The number of PC fanboys on this forum is astounding.

Well, I dislike the "fanboy" term, it has it roots more in the consolefights between Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft. Deus Ex is one the most respected PC games of all time, that might explain why people are here, mainly from PC background. Although I believe that many of them own consoles too.

Deus Ex: Invisible War was, is, a huge let down. If you have played that on PC, after playing Deus Ex. Everything was really watered down, due the limitations that Xbox has. UI, gameplay, assets, almost everything. PS3 and Xbox 360 harness enough power to this to be an non-issue, but people are pessimistic, and they have the right to be pessimistic.

What did you expect from a Deus Ex forum, one of the best games for PC, that had a bad sequel "paralelly developed" for the Xbox.

Gunter Herman

10-06-2008, 04:24 PM

What did you expect from a Deus Ex forum, one of the best games for PC, that had a bad sequel "paralelly developed" for the Xbox.

Touché. :D

It's not console vs. PC, it's shallow vs. deep. Just look at Mass Effect in comparison to KOTOR (even the second one) - I don't really understand it myself, but along with the consolification (for example, ridiculously easy, but eye candy combat), even the story, quests and dialogues became more shallow. If controls are simpler because of the gamepads and lack of keyboard, that's understandable (although not good). But "console style" always seems to come with simplification in all areas, even where it wouldn't be necessary. That's why I said consoles are still in their "arcade phase" - at least I hope console gamers will start to demand more depth in the future - the same depth that PC games already had with games like DX or System Shock 10 years ago would be enough.

Again, look at STALKER. It's a PC only game, and you can feel it, there is no simplification but immersion through complexity.

René

10-06-2008, 04:26 PM

Oh man, I'm trying to answer people individually but I'm getting exhausted! (not a bad thing, just exhausted)

René: Will philosophy still be an integral part of DX3? That's one of the major features that made DX1 what it is.

To be honest, I'm not completely sure, and I'm not sure what elements were revealed to the magazines. Check those out when they're released then get back to me. :)

René

10-06-2008, 04:27 PM

By the way, I'm not sure if Rene can answer this, but does the 3rd person option mean that we can look down and see ourselves in 1st person a'la Crysis, Butcher Bay and Thief etc?

I'm not sure if that decision has been made. What do people prefer? Me personally, I never liked it. I've not seen it done well so far.

dimaf1985

10-06-2008, 04:32 PM

I'm glad you can stereotype all us console players into those "who enjoy big explosion and dying aliens". If you want to exhibit a sign of maturity, you'd do well to choose your words more carefully.

PS, don't know if you heard the update, but Far Cry 2 IS using an auto-regen, unlike it's predesescor.

Sorry for using a little bit of hyperbole to make the point that strategy is lacking from most FPS titles these days.

From IGN : It's worth noting that the health system continues to evolve. When we first saw the game last year, the idea was that if you were hurt then you would need to perform some kind of first aid to get back to full health. For example, you might need to use a knife to gouge a bullet out of your flesh. However, this process took far too long if you had to do it over and over in a fight, so now there's a segmented health meter. If a segment of health drains partially, it will regenerate if you're not hit for a few seconds. If a segment is drained entirely, you'll need a first aid kit of some sort to restore it. If you're down to your last health segment and are about to die, you might have an NPC come to your rescue, just like in the movies. He'll run up, pick you up by the shoulder, and move you to safety. While he covers you, you can then perform the first aid animation to get back to full health. It's a very cinematic moment.

A nice compromise. Add to that the idea of different body parts being damaged, and you have more depth to the gameplay. Instead, it sounds like it's going to be very Call of Duty-esque, which is fine for that game, makes it more enjoyable actually, but does not fit in DX. Especially since our guy is gonna be a mech-aug, it would have been nice to have that technology somehow implemented into the health system.

piippo

10-06-2008, 04:34 PM

I'm not sure if that decision has been made. What do people prefer? Me personally, I never liked it. I've not seen it done well so far.

The term that involves around that concept is called (full)-body-awereness. Something that Duke Nukem Forever will rely on, interactivity combined to that. It offers a lot of design challenges to do properly, either you fake it, or make it really good. That's just the thing, making it look believable isn't easy, what happens when you crouch? And such issues, since usually the players perspective isn't totally related to the surrounding gameworld, which distorts the effect.

I am for it, but I can't see it as a make or break type of thing.

Romeo

10-06-2008, 04:34 PM

Did you note the part about the unlimited number of vials? ;)

rhalibus

10-06-2008, 04:39 PM

I've read all the articles in this thread, including the ones in the excellent "FACTS" thread by MrsP, and now I feel informed enough to give my two cents...

First of all, there still seems to be a recurring misinterpretation of the terms "cover" and "stealth"; people seem to be combining the two. Here is what I'm assuming:

"Stealth" in the DX3 case refers to simply avoid being detected by enemy NPCs by crouching to maintain silence, hiding behind objects, or staying out of their line of sight, all in 1st person without any switch to 3rd person.

"Cover" in the DX3 case refers to a system in which you can, if you want, crouch or take cover behind a wall or other object and pop out quickly to observe or shoot enemy NPCs. When you take cover this way, the game switches to 3rd person, much like "Rainbow Six: Vegas".

I would applaud this addition, and ask Eidos to examine "Rainbow Six: Vegas" intensely to see how they did it right: the zoom-in mode also zooming in when you pop-out, a blind-fire mode, etc. Rainbow Six: Vegas had a perfect implementation of this feature.

Now on to Auto-health:

I believe there are too many counter arguments to the reasoning that auto-heal is a reflection of an industry that has "grown up and changed": S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Fallout 3 have complex healing systems that are more representative of a true FPS/RPG. Perhaps a compromse would be in order; although I won't suggest anything until I know more information.

I haven't heard much about the inventory system, although I haven't read the PC Zone article so I'll withhold judgement.

Everything else seems awesome and very respectful of the Deus Ex philosophy. I'm also very impressed with René's motivation in responding to so many posts, especially with a full-time job at Eidos. Thanks, René!

I'm excited that Eidos seems to be focusing on multiple solutions and an expansive, immersive world. The last thing I would say is that the first Deus Ex gave you a feeling of limitless choices, while Deus Ex 2 seemed more like a set of either-or options...So the best thing is to focus on specific goals for the player (get inside the building, talk to the NPC) and let them have a huge choice in the solutions, rather than the distracting DX2 style of letting them choose between factions. (Please read "The Heart of Deus Ex" (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=75124&highlight=rhalibus) thread for more about this).

Thank you again René, for all your work! :)

3nails4you

10-06-2008, 04:53 PM

I kinda liked the health system in the King Kong video game if anyone's played it...you can get hurt, but you need some time to recover if you get hurt too much...if you start getting badly hurt your vision blurs and you get disoriented until you can get safe long enough to kinda stave it off...kind of a simplified version of what was explained earlier:

It's worth noting that the health system continues to evolve. When we first saw the game last year, the idea was that if you were hurt then you would need to perform some kind of first aid to get back to full health. For example, you might need to use a knife to gouge a bullet out of your flesh. However, this process took far too long if you had to do it over and over in a fight, so now there's a segmented health meter. If a segment of health drains partially, it will regenerate if you're not hit for a few seconds. If a segment is drained entirely, you'll need a first aid kit of some sort to restore it. If you're down to your last health segment and are about to die, you might have an NPC come to your rescue, just like in the movies. He'll run up, pick you up by the shoulder, and move you to safety. While he covers you, you can then perform the first aid animation to get back to full health. It's a very cinematic moment.

Melikes...

Patakreps

10-06-2008, 05:20 PM

jcp28

10-06-2008, 05:32 PM

Jesus Christ, I plan to leave for good since I won't buy this game, throw away my best instincts and come back, only to find the updates about 4 days sooner than I was expecting. Just...wow, didn't expect all this.

To all you idiot purists who look at ideas without evern thinking how they will be implemented, shut up. There's a good portion of you that would tolerate in other games, yet you think "regenerative health" can never work. I'll have to read more about it bedore I can judge.

However, I'll admit I disagree with the decision to put the game in 3rd person. Sorry, but the whole thing sounds like BS to me. This isn't MGS, such a choice should be optional. 3rd person could be more advantageous for some people, but I'm an FPS mutha****a all the way(MGS an obvious exception)

At the same time, that thread with the bad title by the drama queen needs to sent to the farthest depths of this forum. I HATE people like that. I encourage any and all such types to be beat up.

Another thing, I wonder what all the sequel people are thinking(Aaron's seems to have accepted it, but i haven't seen any posts by foxberg or Tsumaru though)

piippo

10-06-2008, 05:54 PM

...However, I'll admit I disagree with the decision to put the game in 3rd person. Sorry, but the whole thing sounds like BS to me. This isn't MGS, such a choice should be optional. 3rd person could be more advantageous for some people, but I'm an FPS mutha****a all the way(MGS an obvious exception)...

It's not in 3rd person, except for some short moments, mainly it's from first-person.

Romeo

10-06-2008, 06:04 PM

Hello, René !

I've got a question for you :

In a stealth based game, the 3rd person view used for cover is a very usefull way to check around the corner if there is some threat. If as a player I want to play stealth without using this 3rd person cover system, as you suggested, how can I avoid potential threats ? Is the player still able to lean left or right without being spotted ?

Yes, it's a very basic and honest question :). I simply hope that not using this cover system does not also mean not being able to sneak properly :).

Thanks !
I don't think people are getting the right idea of cover... I think it means cover as in "duck behind crates" and "stay near corners", much like Deus Ex.
Jesus Christ, I plan to leave for good since I won't buy this game, throw away my best instincts and come back, only to find the updates about 4 days sooner than I was expecting. Just...wow, didn't expect all this.

To all you idiot purists who look at ideas without evern thinking how they will be implemented, shut up. There's a good portion of you that would tolerate in other games, yet you think "regenerative health" can never work. I'll have to read more about it bedore I can judge.

However, I'll admit I disagree with the decision to put the game in 3rd person. Sorry, but the whole thing sounds like BS to me. This isn't MGS, such a choice should be optional. 3rd person could be more advantageous for some people, but I'm an FPS PERSON all the way(MGS an obvious exception)

At the same time, that thread with the bad title by the drama queen needs to sent to the farthest depths of this forum. I HATE people like that. I encourage any and all such types to be beat up.

Another thing, I wonder what all the sequel people are thinking(Aaron's seems to have accepted it, but i haven't seen any posts by foxberg or Tsumaru though)
Watch your language from this point forward, and don't be abraisive unless you want to watch from the sidelines. It's true that people shouldn't have made up their minds yet, as good things may go bad, and vice versa, but that doesn't give you the right to go nuts on them. =)

Yargo

10-06-2008, 06:37 PM

So after having read this entire feed and trying to figure out what I can without any article to read I can only say that:
1. the autoheal :mad2: has been beaten to death so I can't really add anything further to the issue.
2. The art work that I have seen looks unique and interesting.
3. I would probably play any deus ex 3 as long as there is an interesting story.
4. And lastly, as for back bungy jumping tentacles I can only hope the other augmentations arn't as far-fetched and that it is not a required augmentation like the light in dx1 (though I'm probably kidding myself)

please no new comer B.S cause I have followed this game and forum for a while now, just haven't had anything to add.

Romeo

10-06-2008, 06:43 PM

You wont get harped on for being a newbie, provided you don't complain about why things haven't been done YOUR way all along. =)

I think the bungie-back mod would be optional (saving you from long falls), even though I think it sounds kinda cool (imagine seeing a "Doctor Octopus" climb down a wall when your weapons are nearly empty).

Yargo

10-06-2008, 06:48 PM

I think the bungie-back mod would be optional (saving you from long falls), even though I think it sounds kinda cool (imagine seeing a "Doctor Octopus" climb down a wall when your weapons are nearly empty).

I dno, It just seems like an odd feature to be implemented if it isn't required. I can just say that i don't think I'd use it if its optional (crossing fingers)

3nails4you

10-06-2008, 06:52 PM

If the game is in keeping with the past 2, all augs would be optional (except flashlight doh!).

Yargo

10-06-2008, 07:21 PM

one thing that has bothered me lately about some games is that devs release unfinished games to the public. I can only hope this will not be the case with dx3****
Maybe this could be a new thread I jut thought I would bring it up.

just to site some examples:
-Spore (New creature parts)
-Mass effect (Bad UI, texture loading)
-force unleashed (Already announcing new DLC)
-any other game w/ the instant DLC that is like oh #^*W we forgot this.

jc_lemon_lime

10-06-2008, 07:56 PM

i know that this is the deus ex legecy that we're talking about here, but i think we should all take a few deep breaths and wait for more than ONE preview that only people in the uk have first hand access to before we all go bat-sh*t bonkers and condemn DX3

DXeXodus

10-06-2008, 08:01 PM

^^ Exactly. The game is still under development. People that are ranting just need to calm down. Sure, it is good to vent your opinion, but some members need to try understand that this is not Deus Ex 1. It is Deus Ex 3. Things are going to be reinvented and changed. If you want Deus Ex 1 with shiny graphics then wait for DXR or HDTP.

Bentebent

10-06-2008, 09:07 PM

Quick question, probably been asked loads of times but still. How much discussion has there been on releasing an SDK/toolset on PC, Renè?

Jimmy Rabbitte

10-06-2008, 09:24 PM

I'm too lazy to search. Are there any scans of the magazine article yet?

DXeXodus

10-06-2008, 09:44 PM

No scans of the article itself, only the images.

Romeo

10-06-2008, 10:23 PM

And by the way, we're not technically supposed to condone the scanning of images, so... Keep it shush. =P

chip5541

10-06-2008, 10:25 PM

Would that not fall under copywrite infringement?

K^2

10-06-2008, 11:02 PM

Well, nobody scanned the entire article, so this might be covered under fair use...

DXeXodus

10-06-2008, 11:25 PM

Yeah. The scanned images are available for download. Not the article itself.

erionfin

10-06-2008, 11:43 PM

Auto Health
Yes, Deus Ex 3 will use auto-health regeneration. This is a departure from the original but the industry as a whole has grown up and changed quite a bit in the last eight years and the designers didn’t want people exploring levels just for health packs or having to reload to an old save game because they messed up a scenario and couldn’t advance. I know some people actually liked the exact scenario I just described but this is a decision the team made.

René, big thanks for clarifying things on this one. I'm still a little bit saddened by this answer, however it still remains to be seen if the auto healing system is done with the style like of CoD4/R6:Vegas2/Mercenaries2 or maybe like it's being implemented in Mass Effect. Mass Effect implementation is 58 times better, because the regeneration of health is so slow that it really won't save you in midst of battle, but it usually still manages to renegenare fully before the next encounter of the next group of lurking enemy units.

Please, Eidos Montreal, if you have to make an auto health regeneration system, make it work like in Mass Effect, not like in Call of Duty 4.

It just is too lame to be able to play the game so that if you get hit couple of times to the chest, you just go behind a pillar and stay there for 3 seconds and wait for your vision to clear and rush towards the enemy again with full health. Then you get hit once to the head and once to a leg and then you repeat. That's a strategy for 10-year old console gamers (sorry about the flame), and implementation of possibility for this is considering 10-year old console gamers as the core audience of the game... :)

EDIT: However I have to say that after René has clarified several things up on this thread, the issue mentioned in this post is the only concern I have about the upcoming DX3. So far I think the development team has done great decisions and choices.

Igoe

10-06-2008, 11:53 PM

Oblivion had an auto regen system too, and it was pretty slow unless you used potions/spells/comestibles to supplement it.

In a perfect world I'd like that system, because you still need health management. If this is the case then I'm all for an auto-regen system. Absolutely.

Perhaps skill level dictates this in some capacity, with easy requiring little to no medpacks and realistic requiring flagrant abuse of said packs?

Deus_Ex_Machina

10-07-2008, 12:05 AM

Although I'm a bit skeptical of the health regen system, I'm pretty open to the change to 3rd Person View (Thief anyone?) and the bungee jumping tentacles (DOCTOR OCTOGONAPUS :eek: ). I'm glad they ditched uni ammo.

All in all, I'm not disappointed. If anything, I'm a bit more interested. But I'll reserve my judgement at least until a more in-depth preview is released.

Bentebent

10-07-2008, 12:08 AM

Would that not fall under copywrite infringement?

What about us in countries where it's not published?:(

LeatherJacket

10-07-2008, 12:14 AM

We *need* the option of running down the sides of buildings with the tentacles. I always wanted to pull a stunt like in the original Universal Soldiers where they actually run down the Hoover dam :D

Pretty please?

erionfin

10-07-2008, 12:22 AM

What about us in countries where it's not published?:(

Slight offtopic:
Well most of the countries still have some stores that sell foreign magazines. I'm not sure if my magazine retailer (I live in Finland) has PC Zone, but I'm going to go and check it out on 9th...

Inspector #9

10-07-2008, 12:35 AM

I Disagree with all the complaints and negative comments.

I for one, look forward to DX3, and know that it'll be a return to form whilst creating a new audience and remaining 'fresh'.

finc.Loki

10-07-2008, 02:09 AM

I'm glad you can stereotype all us console players into those "who enjoy big explosion and dying aliens". If you want to exhibit a sign of maturity, you'd do well to choose your words more carefully.

PS, don't know if you heard the update, but Far Cry 2 IS using an auto-regen, unlike it's predesescor.

About the Far cry 2 using auto heal.
Well it uses some type of systemic healing whatever that means.

In any case, you have to using syringes to heal smaller wounds and for larger more critical wounds you have to take care of them.
This means you have to relocate a dislocated arm, finger etc.
You have to pull out shrapnel and apply bandages.
This brings more immersion then simply having a health bar climb back up again.
The thing is they are trying to do something else than just auto heal, DX3 is not.

Also using other games as examples bares no significant argument in this case, this is not Far cry 2, or GOW or COD.
The history and legacy of DX3 stems from DX1.

No matter how you look at it , it is simplified and easy for the dev's since they don't have to deal with complex healing procedures.
This is not an advancement.

Anyways it is what it is, and now DX3 will use simple auto-heal.
The new " universal ammo".

I can live with some of these changes if the most important parts are in the game.
Story, consequences, exploration of larger levels, length of game, dialogue with options, and huge conspiracy that is not dumbed down so kiddies can understand it (which it probably will given other console features:mad2: ).

badwolf

10-07-2008, 03:37 AM

I gotta say when I first heard about deus ex 3 I was so excited, and after seeing this article I am even more so. To be completely frank I am just so glad they are making another Deus ex, dont get me wrong I dont want a clone of the first game but I hope that I can trust the game developers enough to recognise the elements which made the first game (in my opinion) the best video game made to date.

Also I hope this game is also available for the xbox 360, it would also be cool if it came out for the mac as I played the first game on one, though I am not holding my breath on that one. I never played invisible war as at the time of its release I owned a mac and a PS2, and after purchasing my xbox 360 I was gutted to find they hadnt AND still have not added it to the backward compatibility list, nor the xbox originals.

Ritter

10-07-2008, 03:41 AM

The year is set in 2027? Man,I loved the dystopian atmostphere so much,it was really cool and that was one of the things that made Deus ex 1 so awesome,Deus ex 2 lacked it :( .Hope Deus ex 3 will still keep that atmostphere

Chrono

10-07-2008, 04:18 AM

Adam is mechanically augmented like Anna and Gunther..So he will have a Killphrase? xD

CarloGervasi

10-07-2008, 04:21 AM

I think kill-phrases were probably just a UNATCO feature.

René

10-07-2008, 05:06 AM

How much discussion has there been on releasing an SDK/toolset on PC, Renè?

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=80817

Ritter

10-07-2008, 06:23 AM

And the DX 1 stealth style add to the immersion in the game in my opinion.
P.S BTW if Adam is a mech then how're we gonna get cloak augmentation?IIRC Anna's cloak augmentation was Nano.

Mecranth

10-07-2008, 06:27 AM

I'm rather certain that, should a Cloak feature be available, that it would be explained quite well. Besides that, it isn't that difficult to achieve a state of limited visibility without miniature robots roaming your body. It has already been somewhat achieved recently.

3nails4you

10-07-2008, 06:29 AM

A reflective sheet can be used to cloak something right behind it...it's confirmed that scientists have been able to cloak a piece of paper :eek:

By 2027, cloaking should be fairly developed.

van_HellSing

10-07-2008, 06:30 AM

Do remember that the cloak wasn't only available through an aug, but also as an item.

Mecranth

10-07-2008, 06:31 AM

Ah, Hellsing, I had completely forgotten about that item. Good catch.

ewanlaing

10-07-2008, 08:37 AM

I'm not sure if that decision has been made. What do people prefer? Me personally, I never liked it. I've not seen it done well so far.

Play Crysis. It's works BRILLIANTLY in Crysis. Only game it's ever worked in I think, but boy does it work.

Icarus AI

10-07-2008, 08:40 AM

Do remember that the cloak wasn't only available through an aug, but also as an item.

Yeah and in the free clinic you can hear two bums talking and the other one tells how the NSF came in thermoptic camos (they were talking about the time when NSF was formed in 2031). So it could exist in 2027 least as somekind of top secreat prototype model.

JCDentonMale

10-07-2008, 09:25 AM

To make Deus Ex 3 a good game appreciated by the fans, that's not easy. Although you developers say that you want to changes some things, could you just think about what makes Deus Ex 1 so great, in order to make Deus Ex 3 great too ?

I'm going to help you a little :

Very good story/conspiration that could be real (maybe it will?). The important is that we learn progressively that the NSF side is the right side.
Conversation system with choices that have consequences
Multiple paths to go somewhere
Multiple ways to get something
Localized body damage (and its consequences) and healing
Skill points you can use to augment some abilities, just not too much so you can't have all your stats full in the end of the game.
Augmentation slots. You must choose your augmentations between a few available and you can't remove them !
The game happened during night, not too much light. Deus Ex was just great to play during the night (this time I mean our real night)
Music, definitively. Ambient music. Menu music. Also the fact that music change when the enemy is searching for us. Bring back the first Deus Ex music composer and pay him enough !
Optional objectives. That was just great !
Typing in digicodes and terminals
Possibility to hack some elements or to make them blow
Possibility to return the turrets against the enemies !
You must manage your inventory so that it take the fewer space possible !
You are never sure about someone is really your ally.
Sociability with others : eg. offering some chocolate to a small boy will make him tell you the code of a secret passage
Do some "bad" things like taking some zyme or drinking wine, paying prostitutes...
Traveling around the world
There were some humor passages, eg when JC go to the ladies room or JC announce to Carter he killed everyone with a big satisfaction, one want to tell JC "shut up JC, you idiot!", or the Gunter letters for Navarre...
Secret passages, secret rooms with some weapon modifications or nano prisms...
The dubbing was just great and huge !
We like to explore everywhere because in the first game you find some useful things in unusal or hard to reach places.
Listening to what everyone have to say, what they talk about...
You can read books, datacubes, public access points, emails... Lot of reading is great !
Small things like eating chocolate or drinking water heal you 1 tiny point, smoking is hurting you...
Hiding to check where the enemies are going and when is the right time to go!
The sounds were just great (for example who doesn't remember the small robot saying "Scanning area")
The intro music and menu music are unforgettable!
Weapon accessories. Each time we find one we are just happy!
Very long game if you try to finish all the objectives and explore everywhere!

I probably forget some important things.

So alright, you're not going to make the same game as Deus Ex 1, I should add hopefully. But please remember... A good game "à la Deus Ex" is not just a few of the above points. That's an ALL. I remember before Invisible Wars was released, many things were promised, actually many of the key feature of a successful Deus Ex game were missing. So if you want to satisfy the fans... Just don't change some key features !

I see that some of the changes are great ideas :

streaming of level data. No more loading between levels is a good thing
new graphics is good too, but not that important. Please not too much light...

Some new features are maybe great if well implemented, but can become the "universal ammo" of Deus Ex 3 if not :

new stealth and cover system. Please let us use the shadows too !
automatic healing. Does it mean, no more medikit, no more chocolate bar, no more wine drinking, no healing augmentation...?
multiplatform... I already say what I think about it. PC users will hate any simplification and any problem caused by consoles support.
the jumping tantacles thing. Be careful with that one. We don't want a spiderman, we want a person who discover a conspiracy.

Now the choice to do the best game of all times is in your hands, dear Eidos Montréal developers.

3nails4you

10-07-2008, 09:36 AM

Words and stuff

Your name makes me laugh.

Lucifer

10-07-2008, 09:52 AM

Decard

10-07-2008, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by JCDentonMale View Post
To make Deus Ex 3 a good game appreciated by the fans, that's not easy. Although you developers say that you want to changes some things, could you just think about what makes Deus Ex 1 so great, in order to make Deus Ex 3 great too ?

I'm going to help you a little :

* Very good story/conspiration that could be real (maybe it will?). The important is that we learn progressively that the NSF side is the right side.
* Conversation system with choices that have consequences
* Multiple paths to go somewhere
* Multiple ways to get something
* Localized body damage (and its consequences) and healing
* Skill points you can use to augment some abilities, just not too much so you can't have all your stats full in the end of the game.
* Augmentation slots. You must choose your augmentations between a few available and you can't remove them !
* The game happened during night, not too much light. Deus Ex was just great to play during the night (this time I mean our real night)
* Music, definitively. Ambient music. Menu music. Also the fact that music change when the enemy is searching for us. Bring back the first Deus Ex music composer and pay him enough !
* Optional objectives. That was just great !
* Typing in digicodes and terminals
* Possibility to hack some elements or to make them blow
* Possibility to return the turrets against the enemies !
* You must manage your inventory so that it take the fewer space possible !
* You are never sure about someone is really your ally.
* Sociability with others : eg. offering some chocolate to a small boy will make him tell you the code of a secret passage
* Do some "bad" things like taking some zyme or drinking wine, paying prostitutes...
* Traveling around the world
* There were some humor passages, eg when JC go to the ladies room or JC announce to Carter he killed everyone with a big satisfaction, one want to tell JC "shut up JC, you idiot!", or the Gunter letters for Navarre...
* Secret passages, secret rooms with some weapon modifications or nano prisms...
* The dubbing was just great and huge !
* We like to explore everywhere because in the first game you find some useful things in unusal or hard to reach places.
* Listening to what everyone have to say, what they talk about...
* You can read books, datacubes, public access points, emails... Lot of reading is great !
* Small things like eating chocolate or drinking water heal you 1 tiny point, smoking is hurting you...
* Hiding to check where the enemies are going and when is the right time to go!
* The sounds were just great (for example who doesn't remember the small robot saying "Scanning area")
* The intro music and menu music are unforgettable!
* Weapon accessories. Each time we find one we are just happy!
* Very long game if you try to finish all the objectives and explore everywhere!

I probably forget some important things.

So alright, you're not going to make the same game as Deus Ex 1, I should add hopefully. But please remember... A good game "à la Deus Ex" is not just a few of the above points. That's an ALL. I remember before Invisible Wars was released, many things were promised, actually many of the key feature of a successful Deus Ex game were missing. So if you want to satisfy the fans... Just don't change some key features !

I see that some of the changes are great ideas :

* streaming of level data. No more loading between levels is a good