Laras Nose? [Archive] - Eidos Forums

satek

06-22-2008, 02:53 AM

The New screens are looking great and it looks like Crystal Dynamics are making a game that will be as enjoyable as the originals were!

I saw a post about the game on Kotaku yesterday and couldn't help but notice that on Laras character model, her face looks quite odd. I noticed the first time I saw them months back but seeing them again I wondered if others were bothered by it. It seems imbalanced because of her overly small barbie doll nose, so I decided to just do a quick mockup to show that she could look sexier, since she is supposed to be the sexiest female in gaming.

http://satek.deviantart.com/art/Harsh-Character-Design-89338814

I don't mean to offend ofcourse, but wanted to register and show since the game is still in development I decided I might as well give some fan feedback :)

Miss. Croft

06-22-2008, 03:02 AM

Hey mate! Nice pic makeover. I'm from aus too welcome to the forum :)

Rai

06-22-2008, 03:09 AM

Firstly and most importantly, Welcome to the forums! :D

You're worried about the shape of her nose? Her nose?

To be brutally honest I don't care a rats arse about her nose shape - but if I did, I'd say it's fine. Nowt wrong with it. :rasp:

Her big toe on her left foot on the other hand...:rolleyes: :lol:

Kat.

06-22-2008, 03:20 AM

Hey welcome! im new to :]
Nice manip. As for her nose i think its perfectly fine :)

satek

06-22-2008, 03:20 AM

Thanks for the welcome guys! :)

Well Rai, it's not just her nose, its more it makes her whole face look bad. Since when you play a game you are staring at the same character model for hours and add to the fact that it will be one of the main points of marketing the game, Lara croft, the sex symbol... I just thought she could look a bit less severe and plastic.

Ha ha at her big toe comment. But the face is a large part of what makes someone attractive just based on looks. It's only my subjective opinion anyway so was just wanting to get it out there to see if others agreed or not ;)

Rai

06-22-2008, 03:36 AM

Thanks guys!

Well Rai, it's not just her nose, its more it makes her whole face look bad. Since when you play a game you are staring at the same character model for hours and add to the fact that it will be one of the main points of marketing the game, Lara croft, the sex symbol... I just thought she could look a bit less severe and plastic.

Ha ha at her big toe comment. But the face is a large part of what makes someone attractive just based on looks. It's only my subjective opinion anyway so was just wanting to get it out there to see if others agreed or not ;)

Well that is your personal opinion and that is great. ;)

Mine was, how Lara looks really isn't as important as you are claiming. In a rather round-about-way. Yes, you do have to look at Lara a lot in game, but mostly her behind view. How often do you look at her face? But, and this is very important, so listen carefully (:)): Lara is not the main focus of the game. When I play I have to follow Lara as she is the character that takes me places, but really what I am doing is taking in the scenery, trying to explore the locations and solving puzzles that will allow me to progress farther into the level and game. I do like the third person view and of course the plot will center around Lara and her adventure, but when I am playing, the adventure is all mine!

If her nose is not 'quite right' in size, shape or orientation, then so what? I don't play Lara Croft, I play Tomb Raider. Lara is just the character that happens to be there, small nose, chapped lips and everything in-between.

And in my opinion, I think it looks just neat. Her look isn't plastic but yes, maybe a little severe but the render you worked on (and did a good job of) is an old render. Do take a look at a more recent model and then tell me what you think. :)

xXhayleyroxXx

06-22-2008, 05:03 AM

hi im new to this too :P

i see no problem with her nose, its the same size as mine :rolleyes:
so there u go it is possible to have a tiny nose :p

and barbies are blonde and orange haha

xxxxxxxx

Capkeez

06-22-2008, 05:21 AM

Welcome to all newcomers!
@ satek: You're right... her nose Does look a little odd. Your changes made a definate visible improvement lol. you should be a plastic surgeon or something...

Arctic

06-22-2008, 06:12 AM

hi im new to this too :P
Hey welcome! im new to :]

Welcome to both of you ;) Also welcome to satek :D

I really don't care about her nose. It's pretty as it is :)

domina

06-22-2008, 06:38 AM

Her nose has always been severely thin, and it's one of the things that made me find her not so attractive in many renders. Is it a big deal? I guess not, but if you're like me, attention to aesthetics is appreciated.

I think the length of her nose is fine, however, and in the renders you edited, satek, it almost looks too long now. I really like how you make it wide, though, especially in the one up top.

satek

06-22-2008, 09:12 AM

Its been fun seeing others opinions though. This seems like a pretty nice forum, not too argumentative like a lot of fan sites can be :D Welcome to all the other new people!

I just found the new renders on this forum and I have to say that Lara still has a very odd face.

Her jaw is very manly and her lips look quite 'drag queen' with the two big arches. I hope since they are still developing the game that her character model hasn't been locked off as she could look a lot more feminine and pretty. especially since they have done such a good job on her body.

I mocked up a prettier face, to show that adjustments needn't be huge.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/satek/newfacelara6.jpg

Arctic

06-22-2008, 09:42 AM

Hmm.. good work making it look so realistic, but to be honest: I don't think she looks pretty at all with that nose/face. But that's just my opinion of course ;)

satek

06-22-2008, 09:49 AM

Ah ok, ha ha ah well it was fun anyway. :) I'm surprised by the eyes, just added eyelids and rounded them a bit with black but they look way different.

@capkeez: ha ha I cant even imagine the thought of cutting into someones face. I do like studying peoples faces but that's because I'm doing Art at uni, so draw a lot.

@Domina: Thanks. I think character modelling is a lot easier the way pixar do it, they create clay sculptures then 3D scan them to make their models. It's a lot easier to work with real media than in 3D programs I think, so I have to give much credit to the games industry, since they create whole moving and interactive worlds through modelling :D

Dukem

06-22-2008, 09:51 AM

Apart from her exaggerated lips, the model is as close to realistic as we'll probably get with Underworld's tech. That mock up you did of the newer render... It just doesn't look right I'm afraid. :(

little miss Ju

06-22-2008, 09:51 AM

Its been fun seeing others opinions though. This seems like a pretty nice forum, not too argumentative like a lot of fan sites can be :D Welcome to all the other new people!
I just found the new renders on this forum and I have to say that Lara still has a very odd face.

Her jaw is very manly and her lips look quite 'drag queen' with the two big arches. I hope since they are still developing the game that her character model hasn't been locked off as she could look a lot more feminine and pretty. especially since they have done such a good job on her body.

I mocked up a prettier face, to show that adjustments needn't be huge.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/satek/newfacelara6.jpg

No offence but the adjusted Lara looks older somehow. Kinda uglier (even stupider) I dunno why but it just doesnt work for me. I prefer the original. I think it's what you did with her eyes and mouth cos I can barely see a difference to the nose. Good job tho :thumbsup:

satek

06-22-2008, 10:19 AM

Ah ok. Well I just made her nose a bit longer and less squished, gave her eyelids, better cheekbones, a less manly jaw and more real shaped lips. Just tried to follow the rule of 3rds when drawing a face for making her features fit together better. I'm surprised she looks older to you though as to me she looks younger :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/satek/newlara.jpg

I had a go with only changing the nose lips and jaw, but I guess it doesn't really matter much since I have found I am in the minority here who think she looks bad/masculine.

Alex_TRlc

06-22-2008, 10:37 AM

I reali prefer the original look, its not perfect but looks fine to me, :whistle:
sorry but to me your modifications dont fither well

VOLCOM20lovesLARA

06-22-2008, 11:39 AM

I SOOOOO AGREE WITH SATEK. NICE CLEAN UP ON THE NOSE BY THE WAY!!!!:)

Greenas

06-22-2008, 12:34 PM

Well that is your personal opinion and that is great. ;)

Mine was, how Lara looks really isn't as important as you are claiming. In a rather round-about-way. Yes, you do have to look at Lara a lot in game, but mostly her behind view. How often do you look at her face? But, and this is very important, so listen carefully (:)): Lara is not the main focus of the game. When I play I have to follow Lara as she is the character that takes me places, but really what I am doing is taking in the scenery, trying to explore the locations and solving puzzles that will allow me to progress farther into the level and game. I do like the third person view and of course the plot will center around Lara and her adventure, but when I am playing, the adventure is all mine!

If her nose is not 'quite right' in size, shape or orientation, then so what? I don't play Lara Croft, I play Tomb Raider. Lara is just the character that happens to be there, small nose, chapped lips and everything in-between.

And in my opinion, I think it looks just neat. Her look isn't plastic but yes, maybe a little severe but the render you worked on (and did a good job of) is an old render. Do take a look at a more recent model and then tell me what you think. :)

First of all , satek , it IS your opinion . Second of all , Rai , I agree with you , and lastly , welcom to the TRU Forums Satek . OK , just one more lastly (if you don't mind) I remember that when I first joined the forums , I vividly expressed my dislike for Lara's new complection in one thread . After awhile though new screenshots were released of Lara . Example : the play magazine front cover . Thanks to pictures like that , my perspective of Lara completely changed . In my opinion , Lara looked great in those pictures and so I thought that she was beautiful all over again .

Aphrodite22

06-22-2008, 02:18 PM

HER NOSE IS PERFECT

i dont what you did to lara's nose, but it looks ugly

http://satek.deviantart.com/art/Harsh-Character-Design-89338814

too big imo

satek

06-22-2008, 03:48 PM

Well if you don't know, I already explained it, I made it larger and less pinched looking, as it really looked odd with her brow in that screenshot. But as you can see from all these varied opinions, there's no such thing as perfection ;)

I don't really mind what they do to it, I just hope its changed. Having such a big a gap between the top of Laras lip and the bottom of her nose just gives her a very abnormal look...

@volcom20loveslara: Thanks :0

@Dukem: Realisation isn't the problem for me, it's the off looking stylisation. The closer to realisation we get in games, the more "uncanny valley" style situations will arise :)

But as I have seen most people hardcore fans really like the way she looks, so I guess its just Laras thing to have that look, though I think she did look better in previous games. Ha ha I really shouldn't let something so insignificant annoy me, but when it comes to the look of one of the most iconic video game characters I just found it odd.

Thanks for all the welcomes! :)

Oh this was a way more subtle version that I didn't post because I liked the more stylised one better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/satek/larasubtle.jpg

Anarae

06-22-2008, 05:52 PM

The last once you did looks nice. I'm all right with Lara looking the way she does now. I agree that she does appear quite masculine in the jaw line.

wildcard600

06-22-2008, 07:08 PM

The last one is great. She looks much more like a real women than some silicon bimbo.

james987654321

06-22-2008, 07:32 PM

The last one is great. She looks much more like a real women than some silicon bimbo.

I agree, that 1 is heaps better, much more smoother and refined which is how i like lara to look, not so sharp and edgy.

rabid metro

06-22-2008, 09:07 PM

... i think i'd rather talk about Lara's braid (or ponytail)...

not really ... yawnnnnn.

errrmmm, let's see ... i'm going to take the mock-up and photoshop it so that it looks like my girlfriend and then Lara will be perfect. right honey???

seriously, Toby has earned the right to make Lara look anyway that he wants. TRU is giving us sooo much new stuff and i can't quite wrap my head around discussing a nose job at the moment ... the discussion itself seems odd, somehow.

... but that's just my dime. talk freely amongst yourselves and i'll stay out of it from now on ...
:cool:

Bampire

06-22-2008, 10:51 PM

The redesign of her nose, in your deviation suits her more.. The button nose thing is alright, but just seeing this new nose on her.. I think its' time she get herself a permanent nose job.. I don't--nor have I ever really like the little nose, but whatever.

The nose is apart of her personality, and it should be taken a little more seriously. But, at least she doesn't have a vulture nose! :nut:

satek

06-23-2008, 02:38 AM

@rabid metro: Well as as domina said up above, attention to detail is appreciated and a big part of what makes a game gel together nicely. I'm sure being a designer, Toby would definitely not mind seeing fan feedback. Most designers really enjoy seeing different opinions and perspectives and fan forums are exactly for that, for fans to come and discuss both the good and the bad. :)

@Goar: I hope so too, the screens actually bothered me enough to join the official forum and make a comment.

@james987654321, wildcard600, Anarae: Thanks, I guess being more subtle works a lot nicer. :)

Greenas

06-23-2008, 02:41 AM

Rai

06-23-2008, 06:49 AM

Okay, I'm going to add one more thing as I still don't quite understand what the problem is. A few questions.

Is it a design thing that you're worried about, satek? Is it because you think it could be programmed better? Is it a design flaw?
or

Is it purely cosmetic? If it is the latter, then why? Why should Lara be the personification of feminine perfection? Why can't she have a slightly off-center small nose? Or what are known as heart shaped lips? Surely she can have physical flaws? Maybe she's deliberately designed to not be perfection itself.

As Rabid said: if that is how CD/Toby Gard design her, then that is their vision and we should just accept it. Everyone has differing ideas of what they consider perfect or even just 'normal'. It would be impossible to please everyone. Who are we to argue that her jawline is wrong? What is wrong with that kind of jawline or nose or lips anyway. Is it just Lara that you don't like them on or is it just a generalisation of what you prefer for a woman to look like?

I'll shut up now and say no more on the subject. Unless it is to answer questions thrown back at me. :)

wildcard600

06-23-2008, 07:47 AM

Is it purely cosmetic? If it is the latter, then why? Why should Lara be the personification of feminine perfection? Why can't she have a slightly off-center small nose? Or what are known as heart shaped lips? Surely she can have physical flaws? Maybe she's deliberately designed to not be perfection itself.

As Rabid said: if that is how CD/Toby Gard design her, then that is their vision and we should just accept it. Everyone has differing ideas of what they consider perfect or even just 'normal'. It would be impossible to please everyone. Who are we to argue that her jawline is wrong? What is wrong with that kind of jawline or nose or lips anyway. Is it just Lara that you don't like them on or is it just a generalisation of what you prefer for a woman to look like?

I'll shut up now and say no more on the subject. Unless it is to answer questions thrown back at me. :)

Personally i think that they are making her too flawless, the "ideal" of beauty with her full, heart shaped lips and her rhinoplastied to "perfection" nose. I've never seen a real women who had features like that without some cosmetic surgery being done. I think satek's rendition looks much more realistic and natural and i find his version of Lara to be much more attractive.

Just another .02 of mine ... :D

Greenas

06-23-2008, 09:19 AM

Well Lara is Lara and if she got lucky when her genes were created , I don't mind .

tombraiderlaracroft1

06-23-2008, 10:29 AM

Her nose looks......odd.:scratch:

Greenas

06-23-2008, 11:35 AM

Oh well nobody can be perfect .

Dukem

06-23-2008, 11:43 AM

In that first comparison render of your's, she looks like someone who you've never seen without their glasses off, removing them for the first time... She just doesn't look natural. :scratch:

satek

06-23-2008, 02:42 PM

@dukem: Yeah it was adding eyelids, made her eyes look far bigger and probably too "anime" :D

Dukem

06-23-2008, 02:56 PM

I do like that second side-by-side render though. ;) Her lips definately need to be... straightened out like you've done, in my opinion. :o Her nose looks great, too. :thumbsup:

Greenas

06-24-2008, 12:32 AM

I guess so (though I hate to admit it :lol: ) .

Capkeez

06-24-2008, 12:40 AM

Not much of a problem though. I guess we'll be looking at her back most of the time :/

Greenas

06-24-2008, 04:26 AM

we are aren't we ?

domina

06-24-2008, 07:48 AM

I don't think the change would need to be too drastic. Just a very slight widening of her itty bitty nose and a softening of the shadows on the jawline would still make her look like Lara, but blend in better with the more realistic body detail:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/vixen21/Tomb%20Raider/mine.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/vixen21/Tomb%20Raider/cd.jpg