Spy Umah

[Tirda]

How Kain found out, that Umah is Hylden's spy? Was it only in Kain's mind, or Umah realy was? What do you think about it?

[Umah Bloodomen]

You may find this thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=2060) to be of interest.

[WraithStar]

How Kain found out, that Umah is Hylden's spy? Was it only in Kain's mind, or Umah realy was? What do you think about it?

The Hylden Lord said Umah wasn't his spy, and I have no reason to think he was lying about that. Kain is usually fairly level-headed, so I can't really see him jumping to such a conclusion without a basis. I have no evidence to back this up, but I think that there were supposed to be some cutscenes or other "evidence" implying that she was a spy, but it got cut from the game.

[Raziel'sRevenge]

I never got the impression that he thought she was a spy. I thought that he was angry that she stole the Nexus Stone from him in an attempt to keep him from taking over the world. He felt that sort of disloyalty was worthy of death, and that she couldn't be trusted, but I can't recall anything about her being a spy as well, especially when she helped him so many times.

[goblin981]

The Hylden Lord said Umah wasn't his spy, and I have no reason to think he was lying about that. Kain is usually fairly level-headed, so I can't really see him jumping to such a conclusion without a basis. I have no evidence to back this up, but I think that there were supposed to be some cutscenes or other "evidence" implying that she was a spy, but it got cut from the game.

I wouldn't say Kain was level-headed at that period, his level-headeness came from centuries of looking at the future and past , which at BO2 he hadn't done yet.
That's my opinion anyway.

[WraithStar]

I never got the impression that he thought she was a spy. I thought that he was angry that she stole the Nexus Stone from him in an attempt to keep him from taking over the world. He felt that sort of disloyalty was worthy of death, and that she couldn't be trusted, but I can't recall anything about her being a spy as well, especially when she helped him so many times.

Exactly. That's what I thought, and then this dialogue occurred at the end:

From http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo2/script/index.php
Kain:
Silence, demon.
Your need to corrupt is only too apparent. But every traitor that you have turned to your will from my side, even Umah, your latest spy, is dead.

The Sarafan Lord:
Umah? I have no spy called Umah.

Kain:
You lie!

When I say Kain is fairly level-headed, I mean that he speaks and acts fairly consistently and I don't think he'd rashly jump to the conclusion that Umah was a spy without any evidence. He is confident that he will kill the Sarafan Lord right there, and no one else is around to hear their discussion, so he'd have nothing to gain from claiming that Umah was a spy unless he really believed it and wanted to see the Sarafan Lord's reaction to the news. As I said, I don't think Kain would believe that unless he had some sort of proof, and since there wasn't any proof in the game (aside from the Sarafan symbol on Umah's boots) I suspect that something was cut out and they forgot to also delete this little piece of dialogue that refers to the missing material.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

Really? She has a Sarafan symbol on her boot? I'll have to check that.

[Raziel'sRevenge]

Hmmm, never noticed the boots thing. Also, I don't remember him saying that but it's been about a year since I last played it through so it's very possible I forgot something. That quote pretty much sums up the arguement for me though: Kain thought Umah was a spy, we may not know his reasons or if it's true but he felt that way nevertheless.

[WraithStar]

Really? She has a Sarafan symbol on her boot? I'll have to check that.

Someone pointed it out to me awhile ago. It really does look like the Sarafan symbol in game. I just looked at this concept picture and now I'm not so sure. It's very similar, but the details are a little different.

http://www.nosgoth2.net/BO2/images/bo2concept07.jpg

Hmmm, never noticed the boots thing. Also, I don't remember him saying that but it's been about a year since I last played it through so it's very possible I forgot something. That quote pretty much sums up the arguement for me though: Kain thought Umah was a spy, we may not know his reasons or if it's true but he felt that way nevertheless.

That dialogue was definitely in there. The first time I played the game and I heard Kain say that, I was so confused and I just sat there wondering why Kain would draw that conclusion. Kain wouldn't have said that unless he believed it, and he wouldn't believe it unless he had proof of some sort, so I wish we knew Kain's reasons.

[The Reaver Blade]

I've just finished bo2 again and boy, i forgot how repetitive it was. Anyway more to the point, how can Umah have actually died? Kain slit her throat open but he would have needed to impale her or use one of the other vampiric weaknesses to kill her wouldent he?

[DemonicDC]

She got starved of blood, and that worked quite nicely. :)
remember only vamps made like Kain and his Luitenants mutate without blood, or ancients those 2.

Atleast sofar I know

[Raziel'sRevenge]

Also, the vampires in SO1 are the result of magic, and therefor aren't like the ones of BO2. That could have been a factor.

[Vampmaster]

When I say Kain is fairly level-headed, I mean that he speaks and acts fairly consistently and I don't think he'd rashly jump to the conclusion that Umah was a spy without any evidence. He is confident that he will kill the Sarafan Lord right there, and no one else is around to hear their discussion, so he'd have nothing to gain from claiming that Umah was a spy unless he really believed it and wanted to see the Sarafan Lord's reaction to the news. As I said, I don't think Kain would believe that unless he had some sort of proof, and since there wasn't any proof in the game (aside from the Sarafan symbol on Umah's boots) I suspect that something was cut out and they forgot to also delete this little piece of dialogue that refers to the missing material.

Kain's actually quite paranoid when it comes to traitors. He got that from Nupraptor, who's madness made him suspect everyone of killing Ariel. It's only the older Kain from the Soul Reaver games and Defiance who's learned to think things out.

[WraithStar]

Kain's actually quite paranoid when it comes to traitors. He got that from Nupraptor, who's madness made him suspect everyone of killing Ariel. It's only the older Kain from the Soul Reaver games and Defiance who's learned to think things out.

I don't know about that. It seemed to me that Kain was completely blind-sided by Umah's betrayal (if he had seen it coming, he wouldn't have let her get that close). What she said right before she betrayed him made it quite clear why she was doing it. I don't think that Kain would jump from, "Vorador warned me you're going to be a tyrant and oppress the rest of us vampires," to "I'm working for the Sarafan Lord" unless there was something that we didn't see to make him draw that conclusion.

[The DarkOne]

I really don't know why you're making a big deal out of it, umah thought that after kain regained his power he would probably kill the rest of the vampire resistance to ensure that he alone ruled nosgoth with no opposition, so she stole the nexus stone, which is a betrayal to kain but not the vampires.

kain in turn only saw her as a traitor regardless of her motives so he killed her, but since kain kinda liked or maybe even loved her, he lied to himself about her being a spy, so that in his mind killing her would be plausible.

proof to what I say:
if umah was indeed a spy for the sarafan lord then why did the sarafan knights attack and kill her ?

if she was a spy for the sarafan lord why would she help kain acquire the nexus stone in the first place bearing in mind that it was already in possesion of the sarafan lord and he used it to power something in the industrial quarter.

kain knew deep in his mind she wasn't a spy, as he instantly attacked the sarafan lord when he told him he had no spy called umah because any further conversation would've proved kain wrong.


hooooooof................I think I should recieve an award or something right now :p

[WraithStar]

I really don't know why you're making a big deal out of it, umah thought that after kain regained his power he would probably kill the rest of the vampire resistance to ensure that he alone ruled nosgoth with no opposition, so she stole the nexus stone, which is a betrayal to kain but not the vampires.

kain in turn only saw her as a traitor regardless of her motives so he killed her, but since kain kinda liked or maybe even loved her, he lied to himself about her being a spy, so that in his mind killing her would be plausible.


I don't think Kain would need an excuse to kill her. She *was* a traitor, regardless of her motives, and for Kain that's reason enough. I know she wasn't working for the Sarafan. My point is that I don't think Kain would have jumped to that conclusion given everything we've seen in the game. I get the feeling that there was supposed to be a scene or something after he kills her to imply that she was working for the Sarafan Lord, but it got cut from the game.

[The DarkOne]

but since kain kinda liked or maybe even loved her, he lied to himself about her being a spy, so that in his mind killing her would be plausible.

As I said before he wanted to give himself a reason good enough (in his subconscioussness) to allow him to kill her as he loved her and wouldn't kill her without sufficient reasons.

[WraithStar]

As I said before he wanted to give himself a reason good enough (in his subconscioussness) to allow him to kill her as he loved her and wouldn't kill her without sufficient reasons.

If that's the case, then there should have been some sort of monologue where Kain muses about it instead of it coming out of the blue at the very end of the game.

From http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo2/script/index.php
Vorador:
Umah is dead, is she not? Were you too late?

Kain:
No. She suffered the fate she deserved. She stole the Nexus Stone from me.

Vorador:
So you refused to help her?

Kain:
I dealt with her as I deal with all traitors. I killed her accordingly.

Vorador:
You did what?!

Kain:
I did as you would have done, Vorador, to any human or vampire who defied your will.

Vorador:
Monster!

Kain:
She chose her fate. Was she acting as the dutiful lieutenant, following her superior's orders? I care not. What's done is done.



It sounds to me more like Kain is accusing Vorador of putting Umah up to it. That's why it seems very strange to me that Kain would all of a sudden at the very end act as if he believes she was working for the Sarafan Lord when all of the evidence in the game, and even some of Kain's own words, imply that she was working under the influence of Vorador (whether he intended for her to steal the Nexus stone is another issue).

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

Uma is Japanese for horse.
Umah was the Sarafan Lord's horse, turned into a Vampire to spy on Vorador!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Omega]

Uma is Japanese for horse.
Umah was the Sarafan Lord's horse, turned into a Vampire to spy on Vorador!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh. My. God.

It all makes sense now!

[WraithStar]

Uma is Japanese for horse.
Umah was the Sarafan Lord's horse, turned into a Vampire to spy on Vorador!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know Japanese, so I'll take your word for it:) Little things like that, and like the symbol on her boots that looks very similar to the Sarafan symbol, lend circumstantial evidence to my feeling that something was cut from the game that would have made it look like Umah was working for the Sarafan Lord.

[Anoobish]

How about this:

Umah's uniform is more or less identical, with the ones the Sarafan women use. My guess is, she too (like Raziel) used to be a Sarafan, before she became a vampire.

So... What do you think? :p

[WraithStar]

How about this:

Umah's uniform is more or less identical, with the ones the Sarafan women use. My guess is, she too (like Raziel) used to be a Sarafan, before she became a vampire.

So... What do you think? :p

Hmmm...I like it:D

[Anoobish]

..... Unless of course, she killed a female Sarafan and stole her clothes, just for the hell of it... Which I sincerely doubt.

[dumah's wraith]

I'm inclined to believe she wasn't a spy...A spy wouldn't have been stupid enough to put the symbol of her master on her boot.

But...hey, the sarafan lord could easily have been lying. He had reason enough
1 to piss off kain
2to protect his spy network. For all he knew Umah was alive and the only evidence against her was Kains suspicion, which he was trying to prove.

And to answer the dark one about Sarafan knights attacking her, you don't tell every soldier you have the identity of every spy unless you are a complete idiot. Apart from enemy spies, what about torture and drunken rants?

[Anoobish]

Oh, right.

I think she USED to be a Sarafan. But she's not a spy... No basis for this, however :o

[WraithStar]

Based on her words and actions in the game, it's pretty clear to me that she's not a spy for the Sarafan Lord. I also think it's pretty obvious that she was working under Vorador's influence (I think he unintentionally convinced her to steal the Nexus stone by telling her not to trust Kain). Kain already doesn't like Vorador by this point based on some of their dialogue when they first meet, so I don't see why Kain would be so quick to blame the Sarafan Lord instead of Vorador. That's why I just get the feeling that something was left out of the game that would have made Kain think that Umah was a Sarafan spy.

Or maybe...I remember reading on www.thelostworlds.net that BO2 was heavily based off of a cancelled game called Chakan, which even had what appears to be Umah in it http://www.andnow.net/chakan/images/worm01.html Perhaps in the story concept for Chakan, Chakan was supposed to suspect the Umah character of being a traitor working for the equivalent of the Sarafan Lord (the Chakan characters even have the Sarafan symbol). Then when they made BO2, they remembered this in the ending dialogue and forgot that they hadn't set it up in the rest of the game. (I don't mean this as a criticism. I am just curious about the possibility of learning more of the story behind BO2.)

[demon_overdrive]

Based on her words and actions in the game, it's pretty clear to me that she's not a spy for the Sarafan Lord. I also think it's pretty obvious that she was working under Vorador's influence (I think he unintentionally convinced her to steal the Nexus stone by telling her not to trust Kain).

That's right, i do think the same provided what we have seen throughout the BO2.

[NexusStone]

Stepdaughter to one of the nobles of Meridian, Umah’s fascination with the fantastic, gothic and taboo often led the young woman into situations way over her head. As the Sarafan Empire grew in power and began to slowly replace the overly-bureaucratic and impotent Meridian Republic, Umah and her stepfather were vocal in their opposition to the Sarafan Lord. Secretly, the two had formed an alliance with the vampire rebellion of Meridian, the second Vorador embracing the old saying ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend.’

The Sarafan Lord was still accumulating his power, and to dispose of the noble family publicly would have been a political disaster. He ordered the Sarafan Darktroopers, a secret regiment of the Sarafan Elite, to kidnap Umah and bring her to him in The Device. Demanding to know the location of the vampire rebellion, the Sarafan Lord attempted to torture the information out of her, but her will was strong and she resisted. A suggestion from the Vamperor proved much more effective though.

Bringing her to the Device control room, he stated that if she does not divulge the location of the rebel base, then he would test The Device’s destructive capabilities on her family’s mansion. She begged for their lives, before finally giving the lie that the base was located on Datooine Street.




The Sarafan Lord ordered his men to continue with the operation, and Umah watched in horror as The Device directed a burst of energy into her family’s mansion. Though the mansion was not structurally damaged, every living thing within was killed.

The Sarafan Lord was pleased with the demonstration; certain that upon completion The Device was going to be very destructive indeed. He thanked Umah, before raising his blade and impaling her through the torso. She died.




She awoke days later in the heart of The Cabal. The second Vorador soothed her, explaining that they found her body floating in the Meridian river. As a way of repaying her late stepfather for all of his help to them, they revived her as a vampire.
Umah adjusted quickly, learning new skills and gifts, and rising in status and prestige.

A century later, the situation had deteriorated dramatically. The Sarafan Empire controlled almost everything, the humans and vampires of Meridian were oppressed under the harsh dictatorship of the Sarafan Lord. Dissent and opposition were eliminated, and the Sarafan ruled through a doctrine of fear.



The second Vorador, in an acknowledgement of the grimness of the situation, confided in Umah, now his most trusted lieutenant, that there is still one small hope. In the deepest crypt of The Cabal, lay the body of the legendary warrior Kain, asleep now for more than a century. If Kain ever woke, he could perhaps achieve what Vorador and his underlings could not, and destroy the Sarafan Lord. As a different species of vampire, Necromatic, as Vorador explained to her, he had abilities they did not possess, such as a power to disguise his presence.

Vorador ordered Umah to take his body far away, should the Sarafan ever discover the rebel vampire base, they would surely destroy him. She did so, and feeding him scraps of blood for years, Kain eventually recovered.

Umah guided him, became a friend to him, and directed him on his quests to seek out and destroy the Sarafan Lord, and his Device. But as Kain once again grew in strength, Umah realised that he was nearly as dangerous as the being they were trying to destroy. Kain was young, powerful and arrogant, and saw the world as being his own. Unable to change his ways, Umah grabbed the Nexus Stone from him, a trinket of great power, and attempted to seek out and destroy the Sarafan Lord herself.

She never made it. Attempting to commandeer an Imperial Sarafan Destroyer to sail to the ancient Hylden City, she was caught by the Sarafan Darktroopers. She killed many, but not enough and the loss of blood became too much. Collapsing on a pier next to the sea, she was discovered by Kain who effortlessly murdered the last of the Darktroopers.




Umah begged for some blood, but Kain was convinced that like so many others, she was a servant to the Sarafan Lord. Regretting every moment of it, but convinced of the necessity, Kain ripped a gash in Umah’s throat and let her die.

As Kain discovered in his confrontation with the Sarafan Lord though, Umah was no spy for him. Kain regretted his action, unable to see that someone opposed to the Sarafan Lord may be opposed to him too. Never one to dwell on the past though, Kain buried his feelings of regret deep down.




Unknown to the young vampire, Umah’s body had been taken to the laboratories of the Super Sarafan Destroyer for analysis. When the massive ship follows Kain back in time at the beginning of Legacy of Turelzevir: Doll Reaver™, the Sarafan Lord orders his scientists to repair Umah’s injuries and pump blood back into her veins, reviving her. Umah is to be the bait to lure Kain and his allies into the Super Sarafan Destroyer.

Umah is freed in the rescue attempt, at a sacrifice to one of the members of the rebellion. She proceeds to become a member of the new vampire resistance in Nosgoth’s past, and romance blooms…