Malek's fusion.

[KainSyndrome101]

First of all, don't you think getting your soul fused to your armor for eternity is a just a little too harsh?

I mean, come on, it was just one failure, and another guardian would've been born any second.

And who is Mortanius to govern the fate of other Circle members? Where did he get the authority to commit such a cruel act on one of his own allies? Even if all of the Circle decided upon it, why would they be able to decide? Weren't the humans trying to preserve their race? I'm sure the Pillars themselves were furious with this event.

And oddly, this event took place before the corruption of the Pillars.

I think something fishy was going on. It's a conspiracy!:eek:

[Anubis_Orr]

Mortanius is one of the most powerful members of the Circle of Nine, and also one of the longest-serving Guardians, he has probably earned the respect of the rest of the Circle and when it's ranks were decimated they looked to him for a decision and action. And Malek's failure in this instance was beyond compare, no other time (that we know of) has the Circle been attacked and wounded as it had then, perhaps in the heat of the moment Mortanius overreacted but I'd imagine it would be pretty hard to unfuse Malek and restore to him his body.

Also the Pillars are an inanimate objects, they may reflect the well-being of Nosgoth but they are not sentient nor capable of emotion.

However it is true that Mortanius may have already been infected by Hash'ak'gik at this time, and was not in control of his own actions.... but I doubt it, I don't think that Mortanius would allow himself to be a slave for 500+ years, and I think over time Hash'ak'gik would gain more and more control over Mortanius body and he would have less freedom to do as he would. And Mortanius isn't an inherently cruel person, his methods may seem extreme but he wants what's best for Nosgoth as shown by his resurrection of Kain and his guidance in the destruction of the other Guardians and finally himself.

[Umah Bloodomen]

I agree with Anubis, Malek didn't fufill his duty to the circle. He didn't protect them when they needed him. There is no forgiving the loss of life that Malek was in charge of ensuring survived.

If I remember correctly, there is no evidence to suggest that Mortanius was possessed by Hash'ak'gik for more than 50 years prior to the events of Blood Omen. Ariel was murdered 30 years prior to these events and we know that Morty was already under Hash's influence then.

I also agree that it took time for Hash to fully consume Mortanius and his will - until this happened it appeared to me that Mortanius was often conflicted with his inner demon, fighting to the best of his own ability to prevent a full Hash takeover.

(View this as somewhat similar to a Multiple Personality Disorder).

Mortanius isn't cruel - he is just, there's a difference. His resurrection of Kain was for the benefit of Nosgoth but I don't think Morty (or Hash) had forseen Kain refusing the sacrifice, which pretty much made things not go according to plan. But I do agree that it was in Nosgoth's benefit to turn Kain on the Circle of Nine (including himself).

[KainSyndrome101]

Also the Pillars are an inanimate objects, they may reflect the well-being of Nosgoth but they are not sentient nor capable of emotion.

They do have the power to choose which being will be their guardian. Why couldn't they be sentient?

It's a possibility that the guardians communicate with their Pillar, seeking advice on what to do on certain events. If this is true, then maybe Mortanius didn't obey his Pillar(even though it is the Pillar of Death, i'm sure it's only for bad guys that deserve punishment).

But you do have a point though - he may have overreacted.

There is one thing though. When this new forum started back in late June, blincoln posted a thread with warpsavent interviewing Amy Hennig. Warp asked her what the Circle members were doing/why they were defensless and she said she would not reveal it. What if they were doing something in there that was of great importance, Vorador ruined it all, and Malek wasn't there in time to save them? This would surely make Mortanius mad, or any Circle member. That may have been the reason for Malek's fusion.

Or maybe Moebius had something to do with it. He did keep Malek with him for quite a while when confronting Raziel, though, and probably knew of his fate. Perhaps it was a little sick joke of his.

And of course, I strongly believe that it was good for Nosgoth that Mortanius sent Kain out to destroy the Circle so that new guardians could be born.

I don't think Mortanius is cruel as a whole either. It was kinda cruel, though.

[corpdog]

Well malek was in the underworld, so he was in mortanuis' teritory so he dealt with him like he felt appropriate. Also mortanius probably figured that if he did that to malek then malek would try even harder to protect the circle, because of his hatred for the attackers. He was also stupid and usually reliable so keeping him alive would make sure they would have a decent gaurdain that couldn't be easily killed.

[Anubis_Orr]

A computer can randomly pick a name out of a million choices, does that make it sentient?

That post is still here, Umah or darien (I believe... thx) reposted it on this forum so people could look back on some great threads, the question was:
Q: Why was the Circle defenseless? Their magic fails in the cut scene, Moebius
even says they are defensless in Sr2. Is it becasue Malek was not there, or
their magic failed? What were they doing in there? And where was Mortanius
all this time? Off getting possessed??
A: This has not yet been revealed.
At the time (as represented in BO:LoK's FMA), certain members of the Circle were watching and guiding the movements of the Sarafan via the "viewing basin" in the chamber.
Mortanius' whereabouts have not been revealed.


Chances are that if it was of great importance to them then it was dangerous to the vampire race, so it's probably just as well that Vorador arrived when he did.... muahahahah :D

[Umah Bloodomen]

That was Blincoln's doing, not mine or darien's. (Although I have used it for reference on numerous occasions).

I'd like to take this opportunity to praise the works of The Caterpiller Squire (TM) and his spiffy boots... ***drools***

;)

[KainSyndrome101]

Chances are that if it was of great importance to them then it was dangerous to the vampire race, so it's probably just as well that Vorador arrived when he did.... muahahahah

Yes, it was good when Vorador arrived for the vampires,but it was not good for the Circle members because they were against the vampires.

[Vamperic]

Yeah Mobius intensionally held Malek from helping the circle.

In the final confrentation with Mobius and Raziel you can hear Vorador attacking the circle and you see Mobius give an evil grin, he knew what he was doing.

"Malek- Lord Mobius the circle is under attack I must.
Mobius- Hold fast Malek this creature is the real danger here he posses a threat to the circle."

[Power reaver]

But I wonder why V was there at the same time as Raz , its not shown in the game that he knew the Sarafan killed Janos , at that moment . Maybe he was going to visit him , but then he saw Raziel and he hid , then the Retreat collapsed and Raz jumped out . Raz went on his merry way , while V teleported inside , saw janos , broke a few tiles(in rage) and teleported out .

Thats what I think .


Vamperic , your right about that , Moebius saw everything from the beginning and he knew what he had to do . The only events which he didnt know about would be the Chapel and the ending part of the game .

Malek , I really dont know much about him except the really important stuff .

I need to play BO :(

[KainSyndrome101]

Yep, everybody needs to play BO. Get it, you must have it!

It's probably just that simple; Vorador attacked the Circle because of their sponsorship of the Sarafan who killed his loved ones, and one of them would've probably been Janos.

[LOKfanatic]

Funny how I was thinking about what was going on when Moe and Malek confronted Raz, but now that that question is answered onto my next idea. Im still not sure what actually caused the corruption of the pilars, the game leads you to believe that the death of Ariel caused it and that Kains death would fix things. But it seems that there is something more, after Raz rips her a new one in SR2 you see her true colors. Im sure this topic has come up before but since im new here I'd like to hear what some of your theories are.

[Anubis_Orr]

Ariel's death was the catalyst to the Pillar's corruption, not the cause, when Nuprator (The Mentalist) discovered her torn and ruined body he unleashed a psychic wave of pain and despair that corrupted the thoughts of the other Guardians, skewing their perspective on things. Her true colors? She's merely deranged and full of self-doubt.

In order to restore the Pillars all of the Guardians corrupted by Nuprators psychic blast had to die, including Kain. His death would have restored the Pillars, but led to the extinction of the vampire race, the true heirs of the Pillars. Also most likely without the presence of Kain the Pillars would have been doomed by other means, this plan of action was well-thought out and calculated by the unseen forces.

[lokkagrey]

Yes its true Nupraptor is the cause of the circle's decline, Ariel's death merely upset Nosgoth's balance.
Once corrupted by Nupraptor the circle became beyond redemption, and it bacame Kain's destiny to restore the pillars and balance to Nosgoth.
Only problem was Moebius caused the 'Extinction of the Vampires' paradox and subverted his destiny.

If Kain's finishes off the circle the destroys himself the pillars and balance are restored, but means vampires no longer exist and no one strong enough is left to combat the Hylden (as in BO2.)
On the other hand if he doesn't scarify himself balance is not restored and the pillars continue to decline, but Kain stays alive with a desparate hope of reclaiming his true destiny.
If he's alive he can still do something about it which I believe is why he chooses the later course.

[Time Streamer]

Warning! Few spoilers ahead for those who haven't played or completed the game yet.





The Unspoken (Hash) himself announced at the end of BO1 that the killing of Arial and it's calculated prepercussions following it were all but a first act in his grand scheme/plan, whatever it'd been ultimately. He even told Kain plainly that he had served him, he (Kain) had been nothing but a pawn. This makes me wonder a few things. Had Hash planned to kill Kain there and use his death to do with the Pillars as he wished or had Hash calculated that Kain kills him there(at least the current body he was in, Hash never appeared from any portal or teleported, so Hash's spiritual form or whatever could still be somewhere), and trust Kain to restore the Balance instead of destroying it?

[lokkagrey]

Very true Time Streamer.

And it still makes me think more that Hash is the Eldar God in the SR series. I think he lives off the chaos and misery of Nosgoth. The Eldar God does seem to inhabit a large part of the underworld. If I'm right he's manuveered things to setup the break down of the pillars and therefore all of the land.
The thing I keep wondering is his other piece Moebius. As the time streamer how can you tell which time frame he's currently from. Is the one in Williams chapel the one before or after his mind is corrupted by Nuptraptor. This can pose some very interesting senerios.


Lokka Grey

Histroy Abhors A Paradox

[Anubis_Orr]

It's also possible that Moebius was not afflicted with the effects of Nuprator's psychic blast, he could have been present in another time at the moment that happened, by coincidence or plan.

[warpsavant]

The Pillar of Time had to be restored. So Moebius must've been infected just like everyone else.

I also think Vorador attacked the Circle because they killed Janos, I know what the SK website says, but they also claim that Malek was away at war when Vorador attacked, so....

[Darakari]

Since Moebius is the one who kept Malek from helping the other Sarafan, and Moebius is the one who ordered Malek to stay with Raziel - Why did they punish Malek for obeying Moebius's orders? Maybe Mortanius should have fused Moebius to a suit of armor!

[Secrets Of Nosgoth]

Darakari, good question you pose there. Makes me wonder if Moebius told Mortanius to do this with foreknowledge (big supposition here) that if Malek were to have stayed alive, he could have become one of Kain's liutenants. And Mortanius did this so Malek would stay alive forever (assumption on their part).

[KainSyndrome101]

That's a very good theory. I've never thought about it that way before.

[warpsavant]

Kain couldn't defeat Malek, so even if Malek was never fused, I highly doubt Kain would raise the one Sarafan he could not defeat.

You have to wonder about the relationship between the Circle Members. Its possible they didn't get along, it's also possible that somehow Mortanius knew of Moebius plans and gave Malek specific instructions that Malek failed to follow.

Becasue in BO you get the feeling Mortanius knew everything, this may have to do with the fact that he was possessed, or maybe he was possessed because he really did know everyones plans.

"Well done, Kain. Ah, Moebius did so love playing the trickster’s part. His guise as the Oracle served his schemes well. Pity with all his plots he failed to plan for you.

Come to me, my undead son. Make haste to the Pillars; the stage is set for the grand finale. You will have your vengeance."

Would seem to me Morty and Moebius are at odds.

[Secrets Of Nosgoth]

Kain probably would have no trouble defeating Malek at the time of his resurrecting Raziel and his fellow sarafan. But who's to say that Kain could have defeated Raziel, Turrel, Dumah, Rahab, and Malchaih, at the time he was fighting with Malek? It was Vorador who defeated Malek, and Raziel who defeated the rest. Kain was only responsible for the circle, it just so happened that Malek was both.

But then again, its hard to compare them considering at that time the other Sarafan were dead while Malek was immortal. But then again, there in lies my question. Did Moebius know about Kain resurrecting the Sarafan, and he knew that Malek (being a member of the circle) could have also been resurrected and turned against his beliefs, and therefore have him sentenced to eternity in the armor.

Why was Malek the only Sarafan knight who was a member of the Circle? Was it because he was the strongest of them all?

And also, what is to stop Kain from going to Malek's Bastion and resurrecting Malek, after all his body is lying there. Now he would have some interesting abilities to be given if he was killed by Raziel.

[warpsavant]

If he was powerfull enough to defeat the other Gaurdians he defeated at the time, why could he not defeat Malek of the Sarafan?

Also, since no new Gaurdians can be born, then just how when Kain was raised by Mortanius he remained the Balance Gaurdian, THEN when Kain raises Malek, Malek is still the Conflict Gaurdian.

I think Kain knows better than to raise a 5000 yr old Conflict Gaurdian who was the scourge of the Vampires. So I have to say common sense would keep him from returning to the Bastion.

[Anubis_Orr]

Kain was on a quest to destroy all the Guardians and restore the Pillars, at the time Malek showed up (second time) Kain was chasing at DeJoule and Bane and didn't have time for a drawn-out battle with Malek that would take time, so he summoned Vorador so he could continue his hunt.

What difference does it make if he's a Guardian or not?

I agree that Kain probably wouldn't want to raise Malek as a lieutenant, Malek existed as a spirit for 500+ years so I don't think his mind would be as fragile as the other Sarafan lieutenants, by this I mean I think he would retain all of his memories and seek to finish what he couldn't in life, the utter destruction of the vampire race and after he did that (if he could) I honestly think he would kill himself, such would be his disgust and religious zeal.

[Secrets Of Nosgoth]

Okay, that makes sense to me now. It'd be pointless to raise him considering he HAS to be dead, just like Kain himself has to be dead. It'd probably only be worth his while to raise him if he really needed help defeating an enemy.

So whether or not Kain could defeat him doesn't really matter.

[warpsavant]

Kain killed the members of the Circle, so why would he raise one? That's why I think the fact Malek is/was a G matters. Why not raise all the other former Guardians as Vamps too while he's at it? LOL Just don't make sense to me.

[Anubis_Orr]

The Guardians weren't suited to his needs.... he wanted Warriors that would be utterly loyal and dedicated to him, the six dead Sarafan lieutenants fit this bill perfectly, plus the minds of the Guardians were twisted by the blast from Nuprator and so in unlife they would have been just as twisted imo.

[keepittrue]

I think warp pretty well explained good.

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
A computer can randomly pick a name out of a million choices, does that make it sentient?

That post is still here, Umah or darien (I believe... thx) reposted it on this forum so people could look back on some great threads, the question was:



Chances are that if it was of great importance to them then it was dangerous to the vampire race, so it's probably just as well that Vorador arrived when he did.... muahahahah :D i have completed sr1 for the 3rd time and after the dialog between you 2 guys i'm getting confused. i have been trying to figure out (1) there were 6 sarafan warriors, was malek the 7th, was turel the tomb guardian, keep in mind i never played any of the blood omens so i don't know the story. is moebious on of the good guys or is he evil, and why did raziel kill or seemed like he killed ariel in sr1. does sr2 pick up from when raziel crossed the threshold into the portal and saw moebious?

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by vegeta
i have completed sr1 for the 3rd time and after the dialog between you 2 guys i'm getting confused. i have been trying to figure out (1) there were 6 sarafan warriors, was malek the 7th, was turel the tomb guardian, keep in mind i never played any of the blood omens so i don't know the story. is moebious on of the good guys or is he evil, and why did raziel kill or seemed like he killed ariel in sr1. does sr2 pick up from when raziel crossed the threshold into the portal and saw moebious?

Malek is the 7th named Sarafan warrior. I always assumed he ranked above the 6 other brethren and didn't associate with them much more than a military leader would with his underlings. (Yes I think Raziel would've had to answer to Malek eventhough Raziel held rank and power also). I think this occurs because Malek serving as the guardian of Conflict, he automatically is placed in higher reverence than a simple Sarafan leader/warrior.

You don't have to play the Blood Omen's to understand Turel, although it will point you into some related insight to Malek, his fusion and the other guardians as well as why Kain is how he is and Nosgoth became the way it did. (Translation, play the Blood Omen's, learn much you will - *obligatory Yoda-speak*) :p

The model for Morlock (the Tomb Guardian) was originally supposed to be Turel, however Turel was cut from the game completely and said to have "eluded" Raziel "for now".

As for Moebius being evil or not:

You can play SR2 and find out more, and wait for SR3 just like the rest of us, for your answer. He's a fun character there's no doubt about that. ;)

Raziel did not kill Ariel in SR1, although it was originally slated for him to do so. The part where Raziel appeared to have killed Ariel was from another aspect of the game cut from the final release, where Raz would've obtained the Aerial Reaver. (The part was obviously left in the Chronoplast chamber, giving indication of what could've transpired over the course of the game).

As for your final inquiry, you will just have to bow down and play SR2 to find out what happens after the ending cinematics of SR1.

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen


Malek is the 7th named Sarafan warrior. I always assumed he ranked above the 6 other brethren and didn't associate with them much more than a military leader would with his underlings. (Yes I think Raziel would've had to answer to Malek eventhough Raziel held rank and power also). I think this occurs because Malek serving as the guardian of Conflict, he automatically is placed in higher reverence than a simple Sarafan leader/warrior.

You don't have to play the Blood Omen's to understand Turel, although it will point you into some related insight to Malek, his fusion and the other guardians as well as why Kain is how he is and Nosgoth became the way it did. (Translation, play the Blood Omen's, learn much you will - *obligatory Yoda-speak*) :p

The model for Morlock (the Tomb Guardian) was originally supposed to be Turel, however Turel was cut from the game completely and said to have "eluded" Raziel "for now".

As for Moebius being evil or not:

You can play SR2 and find out more, and wait for SR3 just like the rest of us, for your answer. He's a fun character there's no doubt about that. ;)

Raziel did not kill Ariel in SR1, although it was originally slated for him to do so. The part where Raziel appeared to have killed Ariel was from another aspect of the game cut from the final release, where Raz would've obtained the Aerial Reaver. (The part was obviously left in the Chronoplast chamber, giving indication of what could've transpired over the course of the game).

As for your final inquiry, you will just have to bow down and play SR2 to find out what happens after the ending cinematics of SR1.

who is morlockand is there a walkthrough
for sr2. and thanks for answering my question. oh, in the original blood omen does it show how kain came to go from human to vampire? and is vorador,(that might be mispelled ) in the game?

[Umah Bloodomen]

As I said before, Morlock is the tomb guardian. (The boss you fight inside the Tomb of the Sarafan).

You will probably be able to locate a walkthrough through a search engine or through gamefaqs.

As for your other two questions, again, you're going to have to play the game to find out the answers. I spoil nothing. :p ;)

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
As I said before, Morlock is the tomb guardian. (The boss you fight inside the Tomb of the Sarafan).

You will probably be able to locate a walkthrough through a search engine or through gamefaqs.

As for your other two questions, again, you're going to have to play the game to find out the answers. I spoil nothing. :p ;) you are a pretty cool dude umah, thanks
i will be getting my ps2 soon and sr2 will be the first game i get besides mohfrontlines. question, if morlock is the tomb boss, then why are the turlim vampires, turelim vampires and not morlocks or some odd thing? besides was morlock involved in any of the bos

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by vegeta
you are a pretty cool dude umah, thanks
i will be getting my ps2 soon and sr2 will be the first game i get besides mohfrontlines. question, if morlock is the tomb boss, then why are the turlim vampires, turelim vampires and not morlocks or some odd thing? besides was morlock involved in any of the bos

First off, I am not a "dude". :p Secondly "Morlock" is the Tomb Guardian's name. His species is Tureliem. As I said before, he was what evolved Turel was supposed to look like but they cut Turel out of the game totally and replaced him with the tomb guardian instead. The tomb guardian is not Turel. Lastly, I can't answer your last question because it appears that you didn't finish it.

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen


First off, I am not a "dude". :p Secondly "Morlock" is the Tomb Guardian's name. His species is Tureliem. As I said before, he was what evolved Turel was supposed to look like but they cut Turel out of the game totally and replaced him with the tomb guardian instead. The tomb guardian is not Turel. Lastly, I can't answer your last question because it appears that you didn't finish it. :eek: sorry about the (dude) part i still think that you're cool, and that last question was blood omen , i saw someone else refer to it here as bo or bo2 sorry i was't clearer. was mortanious a member of the circle of nine or was he a vampire? as i understand it , vorador killed ariel, causing her boyfriend to go mad with grief which in turn caused the pillars to start corrupting. what is mortanious' role in this. i read some of your original thread but couln't follow it all the way through.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by vegeta
:eek: sorry about the (dude) part i still think that you're cool, and that last question was blood omen , i saw someone else refer to it here as bo or bo2 sorry i was't clearer. was mortanious a member of the circle of nine or was he a vampire? as i understand it , vorador killed ariel, causing her boyfriend to go mad with grief which in turn caused the pillars to start corrupting. what is mortanious' role in this. i read some of your original thread but couln't follow it all the way through.

No offense taken from the "dude" reference. ;)
Whatever or whomever your source is for BO information is totally misinformed. Beyond totally I think. LOL. :p

BO = Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (the first game)
BO2 = Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2 (the fourth game)

The necromancer, Mortanius is the Guardian of the Pillar of Death. He is not a vampire.

The other Guardians are as followed:

Ariel - Balance
The mentalist, Nupraptor - The Mind
The alchemist, Anacrothe - States
The energist, Dejoule - Energy
The planer, Azimuth - Dimension
The time-streamer, Moebius - Time
The druid, Bane - Nature
The paladin, Malek - Conflict

Vorador did not kill Ariel. But her boyfriend, Nupraptor did go mad with grief and was the cause of the Pillars corruption. Once you play BO, you will learn of Mortanius' role in this.

EDIT Slight grammar correction.

[Anubis_Orr]

Malek is the 7th named Sarafan warrior. I always assumed he ranked above the 6 other brethren and didn't associate with them much more than a military leader would with his underlings. (Yes I think Raziel would've had to answer to Malek eventhough Raziel held rank and power also). I think this occurs because Malek serving as the guardian of Conflict, he automatically is placed in higher reverence than a simple Sarafan leader/warrior.

At the time (530 years before BO) I don't think Malek knew that he was the Guardian of Conflict (it's stated somewhere, and I'm not referring to the SK site [says that he came to embody the traits and became a Guardians, drivel! :)]) He's the Sarafan's General and therefore controls all the actions of the Sarafan based on the orders he's given by the Circle. (He may have been left in the dark by the Circle, by keeping him ignorant of his status they can easily control him and keep him obedient.)

I think you've really missed out on a lot vegeta :p Mortanius is not a vampire, he is the Guardian of Death, although he may look dead he is in fact a living breathing "normal" person. And Mortanius was responsible for Ariel's death, although not directly, at the time Mortanius was possessed by the Entity known as Hash'ak'Gik among other things. He forced Mortanius to kill Ariel unleashing the series of events in BO, Mortanius sometimes was able to wrest control from Hash'ak'Gik and act on his own, at one of these times he arranged to have Kain killed and then resurrected him to "cleanse" the Circle. Nuprator "Ariel's boyfriend" was the Guardian of the Mind, when he found her body (with a knife in her back) he went insane with grief and suspicion about corruption within the Circle and released a psychic wave of energy that corrupted the minds of the other Guardians (some say it was intentional, some say it was a momentary lapse of control, either could be true) causing the Pillars slow decay.

[Edit] Small addition

[Umah Bloodomen]

Here's a thought, lets just spoil things for everyone. :rolleyes: It is obvious (he even said) that vegeta hasn't played the games and you just gave him all the information and then some. <sarcasm>Bravo!</sarcasm> :rolleyes:

I am pretty sure that Malek knew he was the conflict guardian, as did the rest of the circle know that. Let's play with our math shall we? There are 9 guardians, 6 died and 3 were left. And you expect me to buy that he didn't know? :rolleyes:

EDIT In response to what you just added, Anubis, that could be true, but I still believe he knew just for the fact he was bound to prevent the fall of another guardian and Ariel was still murdered and Malek did nothing to prevent it. Malek had to have known at some point either just before the fall of the Circle at the hands of Vorador, or right after his fusion.

Referring to SK's site is rather absurd because it even states these events happened 5000 years prior to BO instead of 500. This proves how much the story has evolved.

[Anubis_Orr]

Ask a question and take the risk for having it answered :D

And that's what I said about SK's site, "drivel"

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
Ask a question and take the risk for having it answered :D

And that's what I said about SK's site, "drivel" :cool:
heyAnubis, you and umah are both right , anubis didn't really spoil it for me i found and old blood omen 1 game for the playstation and read the back of the case , there was a walktrough for it to , i didn't read it all but it gave me some background as well as sr2 did. now when sr2 was getting ready to hit the market, amy gave an interview in one of the game pro mags that sais something about sr2being where raziel learned about the past. i had no idea that so much time has passed between lok1and soulreaver1then time between lok1and sr2.
so umahs depiction of who malek is and was summed up somethings but i'm still not satisfied. i'm going to play all of the games to get the whole story , but according to umah, there's going to be a part 3 for both series., if i'm right moebious was the one who started the war against the vampire plague. and if memory serves me right kain killed ,moebious. it's vorador and mortainios' parts in this that i'm unclear of. the questions i had about malek stem from me actually paying attention to when raziel entered the tomb of the sarafan. Turel and Maleks names were on the tombs as well but umah said that Morlock was the tomb guardian and not Turel. so i'm beginning to think Morlock was a sarafan also or some henchman of Kains. well one of you 2 can clear this up Please?!!!!!!:)

[Anubis_Orr]

Morlock is simply a member of the Turelim clan (Turel's clan), Kain had him guard the tomb because of all the vampire clans in Nosgoth the Turelim are the strongest (unless some Razelim survived:D)
I hope that clears that up.

Also LoK refers to all the games (Blood Omen 1/2, Soul Reaver 1/2).

Have fun playing through all the games :D

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
Morlock is simply a member of the Turelim clan (Turel's clan), Kain had him guard the tomb because of all the vampire clans in Nosgoth the Turelim are the strongest (unless some Razelim survived:D)
I hope that clears that up.

Also LoK refers to all the games (Blood Omen 1/2, Soul Reaver 1/2).

Have fun playing through all the games :D :cool:

HEY HAVE YOU BOTH PLAYED THEM ALL DO YOU GUYS HAVE THE WHOLE STORY SO FAR? AND IN THE FIRST BLOOD OMEN IS KAIN HUMAN AND THEN TURNED OR WHAT

[Vampmaster]

Yep, you start off as Kain, then get killed, then ressurected as a vampire by Mortanius. Mortanius isn't a vampire so he does it a different way (using his death powers) than if a vampire were to bite Kain. Vorador (a vampire) killed the predecessors of Ariel, Nupraptor, Anacrothe, Dejoule, Azimuth, Bane. Three others; Moebius, Mortanius and Malek survived then... ...years later during BO1, Vorador gets to finish off Malek. This was at the same time that Raziel kills Maleks best Sarafan: Raziel (!) Turel, Dumah, Rahab, Zephon and Melchiah. (Highlight the spoler to see what it is.)

[solidsnake]

um... correct me if I'm wrong... but Vorador didn't kill Ariel, right??

[Umah Bloodomen]

Vorador did not kill Ariel.

And yes vegeta, I (at least) have played through all the games numerous times and know what there is to know of the story and leave the rest to speculation and theorizing.

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Vorador did not kill Ariel.

And yes vegeta, I (at least) have played through all the games numerous times and know what there is to know of the story and leave the rest to speculation and theorizing. :confused: i hope i'm not ticking anyone off with my numerous questions but lets keep in mind that all i've done is beat sr1. so i have that story but it's like i'm picking up from another story, which i surmise is bo1, now sr2, is suppose to pick up where sr1 left off right. without spoiling anything, how much time has passed from sr1- 2, when raziel crosses the threshold and is face to face with moebious? secondly, howmuch time is it between sr2andbo2 or is it bo1 and bo2 or both. and none answered if moebious was human or not. i know he's one of the circle of nine. i don't recall however that Mortanious is a vamp or just plain out bad. and one more thing:( :( who is this Hak ash person everyone is talking about ?!!! from what i've gathered he must be pretty powerful.

[keepittrue]

Vampmaster I just wanted to let you know your spoiler is partially incorrect.

At the time Raziel killed his sarafan brothers Vorador only beat up Malek which was 500yrs before BO1 and Malek didnt die untill BO1. If thats what you meant, my bad.

Vege, you should really play the games, us telling you the story really takes the fun out nonetheless I will tell.

SR2 starts right after Raziel crosses the threshold but that transported him back in the past 30 yrs or so before BO1. SR2 visits a lot of different time zones, there is a lot of time traveling. BO2 is 400yrs after BO1 and many years before SR1.
Mortanius is a good guy and he is human/death guardian, the only circle member who appears to retain a little sanity in BO1 besides Kain. Mortanius guided Kain to right the pillars.
Mobeius is also a human, he is the one who has guided Kain in the wrong way many times.
Hash ak' gik is a evil demon whos history is shrouded, we dont know much about it except that it infiltrated the circle and took over Mortanius partially and caused Mortanius to kill Ariel. And yes he is powerful.

[Vampmaster]

I guess I got the spoiler in the wrong order. The "This was at the same time... " part should have been between "survived" and "then".

[vegeta]

Originally posted by keepittrue
Vampmaster I just wanted to let you know your spoiler is partially incorrect.

At the time Raziel killed his sarafan brothers Vorador only beat up Malek which was 500yrs before BO1 and Malek didnt die untill BO1. If thats what you meant, my bad.

Vege, you should really play the games, us telling you the story really takes the fun out nonetheless I will tell.

SR2 starts right after Raziel crosses the threshold but that transported him back in the past 30 yrs or so before BO1. SR2 visits a lot of different time zones, there is a lot of time traveling. BO2 is 400yrs after BO1 and many years before SR1.
Mortanius is a good guy and he is human/death guardian, the only circle member who appears to retain a little sanity in BO1 besides Kain. Mortanius guided Kain to right the pillars.
Mobeius is also a human, he is the one who has guided Kain in the wrong way many times.
Hash ak' gik is a evil demon whos history is shrouded, we dont know much about it except that it infiltrated the circle and took over Mortanius partially and caused Mortanius to kill Ariel. And yes he is powerful. :) THANKS GUYS THAT CLEARS UP A LOT BUT DOESN'T SPOIL IT FOR ME AND I'M GOING TO PLAY THOSE 3 GAMES REGARDLESS. I HAVE TO HAVE THE WHOLE STORY SO I CAN BE CAUGHT UP WITH UMAH,ANUBIS,VAMPMASTERAND YOURSELF. BESIDES RESIDENT EVILAND METALGEAR, THIS IS THE ONLY OTHER SERIES THAT GETS MY ATTENTION. THE AFORE MENTIONED GAMES HAPPENS TO BE MY SPECIALTY. BUT THERES SOME THING ABOUT THE LOK THAT'S JUST OFF THE CHAIN. NOW, CAN SOMEBODY FINALY SUMMARIZE MORLOCK,UMAH GAVE ME SOME BUT IS HE INVOLVED IN ANY OF THE BLOOD OMENS OR SR2, GIVE ME THAT AND I'LL BE STRAIGHT GUYS:D

[Umah Bloodomen]

Morlock is the Tomb Guardian you fight in Soul Reaver. He was supposed to be Turel but Crystal Dynamics cut Turel's presence out of the game before they released it, and changed what was supposed to be Turel to Morlock.

Morlock is a super Turelim-vampire who has no bearing on the series other than in Soul Reaver, as he guarded the Tomb of the Sarafan from intruders. (This could change and he could appear in SR3 or if there is a BO3 if we travel with Kain and witness him raise the Sarafan brethren).

Morlock is his name, not his race, not someone/something new.

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Morlock is the Tomb Guardian you fight in Soul Reaver. He was supposed to be Turel but Crystal Dynamics cut Turel's presence out of the game before they released it, and changed what was supposed to be Turel to Morlock.

Morlock is a super Turelim-vampire who has no bearing on the series other than in Soul Reaver, as he guarded the Tomb of the Sarafan from intruders. (This could change and he could appear in SR3 or if there is a BO3 if we travel with Kain and witness him raise the Sarafan brethren).

Morlock is his name, not his race, not someone/something new. :eek: OK, OK, I GOT IT NOW. ANYWAY I HAVE SOME NEWS FOR YOU UMAH, I FINALY WENT AND BOUGHT BLOOD OMEN. AND I MUST SAY , YOU WERE RIGHT;) NOTHING IS REALLY SPOILED IT'S JUST THAT I'VE STARED AND THE OPENING CINEMATIC SHOWS WHO I THINK IS VORADOR KILLING THE CIRCLE OF NINE, AND PEEP THIS, IT LOOKS AS IF HE HAS POSESSION OF THE SOUL REAVER:eek: AND I MAY HAVE TO START OVER AGAIN BUT, IT LOOKS AS IF MALEK IS RETURNING FROM FIGHTING THAT WAS WHY HE SHOWED UP TO LATE BUT HERE'S A QUESTION FOR YOU AND THE GUYS. IF MORTAINIOUS PUNISHED MALEK BY FUSING HIM TO HIS ARMOR FOR FAILURE TO SERVE HIS DUTY, THEN WHERE THE HELL WAS MORTAINIOUS WHEN ALL THIS WAS GOING ON AND WHY DIDN'T HE TRY TO STOP HIM. VORADOR:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Anubis_Orr]

Actually the sword that Vorador is holding is called the Bone Reaver, it's just a replica of the Soul Reaver. Malek's location is known but you'll have to play more to find that out :) As for Mortanius his location and what he was doing at the time of the Circle's calamity is unknown... Personally I think he may have been examining the Heart of Darkness.

BTW where did you manage to find a copy?

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
Actually the sword that Vorador is holding is called the Bone Reaver, it's just a replica of the Soul Reaver. Malek's location is known but you'll have to play more to find that out :) As for Mortanius his location and what he was doing at the time of the Circle's calamity is unknown... Personally I think he may have been examining the Heart of Darkness.

BTW where did you manage to find a copy? :D THERES A STORE HERE THAT DEALS IN OLD SYSTEMS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, SOME CLOWN SOLD IT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. ANYWAY I AM AT THE PILLARS OF NOSGOTH WHERE KAIN HAS HIS FIRST MEETING WITH ARIEL. KAIN WAS ASSASSINTED BY SOMEONE WHO HIRED THOSE HENCHMEN IN THE FIRST PLACE. KAIN IN HIS MORTAL FORM LOOKED TO ME LIKE HE WAS INVOLVED IN THE FIGHT AGAINST THE VAMPIRE THREAT, AT LEAST THATS WHAT I GET FROM HIS ARMOR AND THEN HE STRUCK THE DEAL WITH MORTAINIOUS. I HAVE TO FIND SOME ARTIFACTS NOW AND THESE CINEMATICS I KEEP SEEING AS I PROGRESS IS MAKING ME EVEN MORE FUSTRATED:mad: AND MORE SERIOUSLY DETERMINED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS. I HAVEN'T BEEN THIS DRIVEN SINCE I PLAYED THE LAST RESIDENT EVIL GAME. I WILL FIND OUT WAHT THE HELL IS GOING ON. AND WHY THE REST OF THE CIRCLE WAS GETTING BEAT DOWN WHY MORTAINIOUS DIDN/'T INTERVENE TO HELP STOP THIS DUDE. AND SO FAR KAIN IS NOT THE BAD GUY I THOUGHT HE WAS BUT IT SEEMS HE'S STARTING TO GET TWISTED NOW BE CAUSE HE TOLD ARIEL HE COULD CARE LESS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD:( HE COULD BE PISSED OFF ABOUT THE WHOLE DYING THING BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE CINEMATIC:confused: KAIN DIDN'T DIE , OH YEAH SURE HE WAS MORTALY WOUNDED BUT, MORTAINIOUS PULLED THE SWORD FROM HIS CHEST AND (CHANGED KAIN) INTO A VAMPIRE! THERE WAS NO BITES , NO THROAT TEARING JSUT CHANGED. WELL UMAH... ANUBIS... I'M SURE YOU FIND MY FRUSTRATION ABOUT THE STORY BEHIND THIS AMUSING:rolleyes: BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEATEN THE GAME BUT I'M NOT EVEN HALFWAY THROUGH THE GAME YET:mad: ANYHOW I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT LOOKING FOR THESE ARTIFACTS OF THE CIRCLE. ANY SUGGESTIONS OR ARE YOU GOING TO LEAVE ME IN LIMBO TO STEW?!?

[Anubis_Orr]

You'll get suggestions on where to go from characters in-game (especially Ariel) if you go to the Pillars she'll tell you where to go, usually if you find your way blocked then you've gone the wrong way.

Kain was a nobleman, that's why he had fancy armor. And he did die, when you see him in the second FMV he is in some sort of hell or purgatory, Mortanius releases him and uses his Necromancy to change his into a vampire because no mere mortal has any chance of killing the Circle and restoring Nosgoth

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
You'll get suggestions on where to go from characters in-game (especially Ariel) if you go to the Pillars she'll tell you where to go, usually if you find your way blocked then you've gone the wrong way.

Kain was a nobleman, that's why he had fancy armor. And he did die, when you see him in the second FMV he is in some sort of hell or purgatory, Mortanius releases him and uses his Necromancy to change his into a vampire because no mere mortal has any chance of killing the Circle and restoring Nosgoth :confused: what about what mobious said before i got to the pillars. i was assasinated by hired hencmen. who hired them or will i find out as i keep playing. and what about my heart of darkness question. if the quote didn't get through, it's this
my first heart of darkness named a different vampire that was the greatest vampire to ever live. i thought that was vorador. because according to the interview i read before sr2 came out he is the last vampire to die by the the fighting against the vampires that king william the just along with mobious started.:confused:

[Anubis_Orr]

It's Mortanius talking to you, not Moebius :) And you'll find out everything in time.

As for Janos

Janos Audron is a member of the species that was originally cursed with vampirism, he lived for millenium and he created Vorador

Vorador is the greatest vampire of Kain's time.

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
It's Mortanius talking to you, not Moebius :) And you'll find out everything in time.

As for Janos

Janos Audron is a member of the species that was originally cursed with vampirism, he lived for millenium and he created Vorador

Vorador is the greatest vampire of Kain's time. :) that is interesting, now i can't wait to move on much less finish the game, will ariel tell me which way to travel so that i can find the artifacts? and i really have no idea of where to go or what to do, just kill and feed so far and i picked up some cool stuff, i have 3 hearts of darkness, sanctuary, and flay just one of those ...although i don't know how to use it. so i saved back at the sanctuary, i'll continue from there and update you on my progress, so far i have 6 days and 3 hours and it's nighttime now.:eek:

[Umah Bloodomen]

I have a walkthrough on my website. It is located in the Blood Omen section under "Game" on the left toolbar.

Click my signature image. :p

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
I have a walkthrough on my website. It is located in the Blood Omen section under "Game" on the left toolbar.

Click my signature image. :p :D i so most humbly thank you and do hereby proclaim you the ultimate aouthority on the entire series:D your website is like super supreme awesome!!!! i didn't want to spoil it for myself so i stuck to your walkthrough, but i did look at your intro, if what i read is correct, that makes kain far older than the Sarafans in Soul Reaver!! and that makes the Circle of9 far older than any of these people. i will continue on but first:rolleyes: i know you saw my last couple of exchanges with anubis, you personaly let me sweat it out didn't you? it's cool though. i really enjoy this, i had no idea that this game would affect me like this. i'm actually burning with a desire to find out who hired the assassins to kill kain. but more importantly where the hell was mobious when his partners were getting waxed! or does that show up later in the game?:confused: well does it? and much more importantly why did mortanious just stand there and let ariel and the rest of the crew with the exception of malek(poor dude) get waxed? if he could do that to malek and change kain into who he is, he could've went head up with vorador and saved some of his partners yet he did nothing:mad: :confused: but he's guiding kain:confused: what's really going on around here?!!!!

[keepittrue]

Glad to see you are so interested, I was the same way and I also started with SR1 then to BO1, play the game tho, it will spoil the fun if you know whats going to happen next and there was a logical reason why Mortanius and Mobeius was not helping the rest of the members.

[Anubis_Orr]

Actually Mortanius' whereabouts are unknown for now.

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Anubis_Orr
Actually Mortanius' whereabouts are unknown for now. :( not really as i said i am not taking advantage of the other neat stuff that umah has on her site, i want to do this kinda on my own but just with her walkthrough, i now have light and a whole bunch of flays, plus i have the bat morphing power, somehow i ended up in nupraptors retreat. correct me if i am wrong here people but it seems to me that kain was some type of nobleman fighting for someone until his assassination, now i am statring to notice a huge change in kains attitude, yeah he should be pissed about getting killed, but now since he's a vamp it's like the more he kills the less he wants to even be the somewhat good guy he was (ie) he told ariel that the world was not his problem just the person responzsible for his plight was all he cared about, now as i kill and feed more it's like he's enjoying it.and i haven;t figured it out yet but i haven't seen mobious since the opening cinematic, and mortainious for that matter. isn kain being used or what:confused: in other words what the hell is going on?!?!!:mad: why go through using kain to destroy the world if he is just going to run through tim e to change events and drag raziel into this or is raziel a crucial peice to bringing nosgoth back to the way it was ? now i know i won't really get answers until i play sr2 which will be sometime before i do, but i thought kain the victim at first now i am not so sure.:cool: but i will find out , I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS!!!!!:p

[Anubis_Orr]

Doesn't matter if you read the walkthrough or not, you still won't know where Mortanius was at the time of the Circle's calamity..... nobody does (with the exception of Amy, maybe) :cool:

[Umah Bloodomen]

Can we say obsessive-compulsive? :p ;)

[vegeta]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
Can we say obsessive-compulsive? :p ;) :rolleyes: am not it's just that i want to know why kain is insane, in soul reaver we find out kain took the sarafan to use as his lieutenants,he has raz offed because he evolved quicker than he did (point) he felt raziel would take over the show)razman comes back with the help of the elder god, and takes it to his boys finding out in the process what they used to bewhich pisses raz off even more, shows down with kain, kain runs like a whimp to who knows where and all of the sudden mobious is on the scene at the end with a very determined razman. now i'm playing the beginning of all this, start aout feeling sorry for kain and he is insane, plus mortainious just stands around while his boys get waxed,and none is left but him
and mobious,malek on the otherhand was obviously out fighting the good fight but arrives to late and gets fused with his own armor. but check the cinematic, vorador is almost scared to fight him. i've got a ways to go in the game yet but I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOMF OF THIS. ANYWAY UMAH, what are secrets is it the hidden stuff in the barrels or is it something else ? i checked my status and it says i found 2 but i don;t remember finding anything that ,makes me say ooohhh i found it!!!:confused:

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by vegeta
:rolleyes: am not it's just that i want to know why kain is insane, in soul reaver we find out kain took the sarafan to use as his lieutenants,he has raz offed because he evolved quicker than he did (point) he felt raziel would take over the show)

How I so forget that sarcasm is a dead artform. :rolleyes: <sarcasm>Next time I will use my tags like a good girl. :rolleyes:</sarcasm>

We've told you over and over why Kain is insane. He was also affected by Nupraptor's psychic attack while in the womb. Kain was born when Ariel died. He is the only part of the Circle that is not/has not been cleansed. Remember, to restore order, the Circle must be completely cleansed, and it isn't.

The motives for "offing" Raziel (as you put it) aren't clear. They most likely won't be made clear until SR3. It could be that Kain's ego was threatened by Raziel wanting "to steal the show". But you really need to finish what there is of the series before you stand firm in that assumption. There is a relationship change between Kain and Raziel in Soul Reaver 2, which pretty much throws this notion right out the window.

Originally posted by vegeta
razman comes back with the help of the elder god, and takes it to his boys finding out in the process what they used to bewhich pisses raz off even more, shows down with kain, kain runs like a whimp to who knows where and all of the sudden mobious is on the scene at the end with a very determined razman.

I am with the popular majority that believes the Elder played no part of Raziel coming back. The Elder was merely there when Raziel woke up. The Elder is clearly a puppetmaster, treating Raziel as his puppet. Again, finish the series before you just go off on assumption tangents. Raziel is angered about discovering his past (and that of his brethren) because at the time he still revered the Sarafan as being the holy martyrs they were depicted as. (Point again) Finish the series and discover how this changed. And Kain doesn't run like a wimp, Kain fled because Kain knows the outcome of everything at this point. He's been fiddling with the Chronplast in an attempt to secure the upperhand of the game and discover the consequences of every action. Kain is not impulsive, nor is he stupid. Kain knows how "things are supposed to go down". And he is determined to open Raziel's eyes to see that. (Again, finish the series for an elaboration). Raziel is determined that Kain is behind everything that has gone wrong with Raziel. Moebius, the <sarcasm>"innocent"</sarcasm> time streamer is there to "help" him along. Have you, vegeta, ever stopped to consider that everyone is manipulating everyone else? (With the exception of Moebius and the Elder because they are out to achieve a common goal). I thought not. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by vegeta
now i'm playing the beginning of all this, start aout feeling sorry for kain and he is insane, plus mortainious just stands around while his boys get waxed,and none is left but him
and mobious,malek on the otherhand was obviously out fighting the good fight but arrives to late and gets fused with his own armor. but check the cinematic, vorador is almost scared to fight him.

What is the point here? We've explained over and over that Mortanius wasn't even around. Did you ever stop to consider that maybe he didn't know what was going on, or perhaps planned on not being around (while knowing what was happening) in order to maintain his own innocence? We don't even know how long he had been fighting his posession by Hash'ak'gik for godsakes. (And we know he fought it, because that's why Kain was targeted for assasination - under Mortanius' own mind not Hash'ak'gik's influence). There are too many unknown factors involved with Mortanius' absence. Malek was given a duty and failed. He didn't protect the Circle and he was damned. That simple. And you don't even know what Malek was doing yet so assuming he was out "fighting the good fight" is a bit uncalled for. When you find out though, let me know if you think it was "the good fight". :rolleyes: Vorador was not scared to fight Malek, this is just asinine. He more than told the Guardians he was slaugthering to "Call your dogs! They can feast on your corpses!" Hardly something you'd hear being taunted by a being who's scared. Vorador planned the attack and carried it out thouroughly. He didn't underestimate the power of the Paladin and used caution before wiping the floor with him.

Originally posted by vegeta
i've got a ways to go in the game yet but I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOMF OF THIS. ANYWAY UMAH, what are secrets is it the hidden stuff in the barrels or is it something else ? i checked my status and it says i found 2 but i don;t remember finding anything that ,makes me say ooohhh i found it!!!:confused:

I feel you are looking too deep into things and trying to back up what you wish to be true with the already stated facts within the series. What you wish is true and what is true are two different things and I again tell you to finish the series. You can't change what is already known. You can speculate on the unknowns or the "little details" but you, my friend are picking at the big plot details which are revealed at one point or another. (With the exception of Hash'ak'gik).

As for the secrets, Blood Omen contains 100 secrets which ultimately affect your prestige ranking when you complete the game. They also enhance Kain throughout gameplay. Some of them are things located in barrels, and others are places, items etc. Some of them you find along the way, others you really have to look for, but in the end, they count towards the goal of 100.