Slightly disappointed in Crystal Dynamics...

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Okay, before you flip a lid and flame me from here to Chinatown let me explain myself. Since the first conceptual images came out and people noticed Lara's breasts were two sizes smaller, Crystal Dynamics have been going on about how they're making Lara more respectable and selling Tomb Raider on the tombs and not the sex.

Tell me then why this is happening:

http://www.tombraidercentral.net/Scans_Feb/PSM_Magazine_Scans/psm_march_06_01.jpg

After being so satisfied with Legend to date and the remaking of Lara's image I have the say the prominent showing of her tatas is a complete downgrade. Nowhere in any of the Tomb Raiders (even the heavily sexed up sequels) were Lara's breasts shown as prominently as this. If anything the cleavage just got more exposed, not the breasts themselves.

An aristocrat like Lara would not be walking around from person to person, with nothing more covering her breasts then a thin strip of clothing..most likely attached by double sided tape. If Lara was a real person and I saw her at a club dressed like that without knowing who she is? I'd think "what a skanky outfit" and lose respect for her right there.

But the fact of the matter is, real person or not..you promised a classier Lara and instead opted for more skin. I may be a guy but I know many women will be turned off to Legend just from these scans and I highly suggest remodeling the dress to be higher cut, unless you want many of your female audience (and some of the males) to be turned away from the game.

You disappoint me guys. I thought Lara wasn't supposed to look like some dumb british bimbo like Core did in the past.

[DKSM]

You disappoint me guys. I thought Lara wasn't supposed to look like some dumb british bimbo like Core did in the past.

Dumb British Bimbo? We'll, I'll give you points for creativity, but I don't think that's quite accurate. She was quite smart and inquistive.

As for the outfit. Yeah, it's a tad risque, but I've seen dresses in real life that are a lot worse. I just think it looks wierd that she's wearing her backpack. Without it on she'd look pretty classy (assuming no wardrobe malfunctions occur).

[Johnny]

Hmmm... Why would wearing something sexy make someone less of a person? Ever heard the phrase "if you got it, flaunt it"? :p As long as it's tastefully done, which in this case, it is. :cool:

[Johnny]

(assuming no wardrobe malfunctions occur).

LMAO! :D I'm sure lots of teenage boys wouldn't mind that. :rolleyes:

[midroth]

Guess http://www.tombraidercentral.net/Scans_Feb/PSM_Magazine_Scans/psm_march_06_01.jpg Playboy and Eidos should make an agreement...

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

REVEALING?? yes.

TASTEFUL?? --- GOOD GOD NO!!!! :eek:


In terms of class, aristocracy and taste, just ask yourself WWPDD: What would Princess Diana Do?
Would she have EVER worn something like that? Good god no!

I've seen strippers with better taste. Sorry but its the truth. :o (And yes I have been to a strip club, with some guy friends I might add. And yes the strippers did have better taste. Those black dress flaps in front look like Pocahontas loincloths... poor Lara.) You even refer to her as Lady Croft in the official profile --she's an aristocrat and a LADY ppl!! :confused:

[WraithStar]

I hate that dress and I really hope it's not in the game. It doesn't fit my view of Lara (I think she has more class than that). If they have to have her undercover wearing a dress, why not the nice blue one from Chronicles? That would have been cool to play in (I still remember being surprised in Chronicles where it went right from the blue dress in the cutscene to the classic outfit in the gameplay without any indication that Lara had changed:p)

[BloodRayne]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b142/rikku_doubledaggers/psm_march_06_01.jpg

[WraithStar]

It looks almost the same to me. I just can't really see Lara wearing anything that revealing and tasteless. I don't think it fits her personality.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/WraithStar/Laradress.jpg

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

I have to agree with Wraithstar

Just for inspiration here are real dresses worn by the beautiful late Princess of Wales who was sexy and classy at the same time
I think any Lara-inspired dress should go no further in terms of exposure, because she is supposed to be a high class aristocrat, as much as you want guys to buy the game, please don't forget that!

http://www.theworkcontinues.org/i/about/gallery/large/black_dr.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/art2/lovies/Bluestar.jpg
http://www.becquet.com/gallery/ashdrake/96001_small.jpg
http://www.divasthesite.com/images/Diana_Princess_of_Wales/Diana_Princess_of_Wales_dress.jpg

[TRaiderGurl]

I dont think its such a big deal. She doesn't look like a hooker or a whore. She's wearing more clothes then i see on girls around here. She's suppose to be at some fancy party and all hell breaks loose and she didnt have time to change. If something like that happened and all of a sudden shorts appeared on her after the cut scene, yall would all be "what the hell?" so either way, people are unhappy. Lara Croft has always been dubbed as sexy video game icon, and now all of a sudden its a problem? Now that she's not as blocky as she use to be, and is more life like looking, people seem to be getting more upset.
http://baixaki.ig.com.br/imagens/wpapers/lara11800.jpg
http://baixaki.ig.com.br/imagens/wpapers/lara5800.jpg

[BloodRayne]

haha thats way to covered up. c'mon she wears booty shorts for god sakes.

[WraithStar]

haha thats way to covered up. c'mon she wears booty shorts for god sakes.

That's not too covered up at all. She's supposed to be an aristocrat at a high-class party. It would be very poor form for her to show up dressed like a cheap tart.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

Its just that in the first TR, the original, she had the same outfit the whole time and it was a t-shirt at her neck. As the games progressed they showed more and more low cut tops with more cleavage and ever increasing breast size until it was a horrific thong bathing suit and just silly.

In the original she was a British lady, she responded, 'afternoon' even in the face of death. This was before all that fake attitude and fake anger and 'Werner you left me in the collapsing pyramid so I hate you now' silliness

I hope they go back to that time when Lara was high-class and exclusive, desirable and anything but trashy. Core slowly eroded her image after the first one. Every single female game character out there now has some slutty looking outfit or dress, Lara was different, almost real.
Honestly would YOU ever wear a dress like that to anything but a Halloween party?
I just want them to make Lara the woman you would want to be if you had the money! :rolleyes:

[Taigerr]

CD you need to get your act right... decide once and for all... is she a bimbo (CORE) or is she a lady (Toby Gard)???

If your answer is bimbo then you are not selling what you and more importantly Toby Gard decribed as far as her CHARACTER (type of person)...

If she is a lady then please get her something more BEFFITTING!!! I totally agree, WWPDD??? Its not hard to get images of young upper class ladys in evening attire including something they'd wear to clubs etc and get some inspiration...

Rember there is a fine line between class and trash.... but the differences are obvious. Please put her breasts away.

The whole essence about Lara Croft is that although she'd quite comfortably hangout with ordinary people, she would not compromise on her appearance.....

[BloodRayne]

how do we know shes at a high class party. all we know is its a party in Tokyo right?

[Taigerr]

how do we know shes at a high class party. all we know is its a party in Tokyo right?

Fair... but they didn't say it was in a brothel either....

[Palmtree]

I wouldn't like that her search for that artifact leads her to a whorehouse. :mad:
Lara in a high class Tokyo party would be cool , wearing somethind sexy and classy.

[BloodRayne]

It seems to much like teh dress in bloodrayne 2. altho that character actually suits it lloll. ohh rayne

[John Carter]

how do we know shes at a high class party. all we know is its a party in Tokyo right?

We know its a party in Tokyo where Lara is looking for information from Yakuza mobsters. Yakuza mobsters are not known for attendance at tasteful parties where demurely and non-skankily dressed women are present, indeed, quite the contrary.

So, lessee, Lara's in a nightclub frequented by slimeball Yakuza mobsters, looking to mix in and get information on the murder of her mother from same....I'm betting tasteful and demure is taking backseat to glaringly sexy in order for her to better get the information she wants. Nothing slows male thinking like, well, prominently displayed tatas. Tactics, good people, tactics. Tasteless? Perhaps. Crude? Maybe. Un-Lara-like? I don't think so. Stereotypical English lady aristocrats don't wear twin pistols and pilfer artifacts, either, so I am unconvinced by the "aristocrats don't do this sort of thing" argument.

Just out of curiosity, where did all this sudden streak of Puritanism come from? It's not like she's decked out in pasties and a g-string here. The only thing striking me as incongruous about it is the backpack and pistol belt, doesn't quite seem to be a normal accessorization. ;)

[Treeble]

It looks great to me, and just like JC said - if it's intended to be a 'mafia' party, that'd be a perfect cover. Even if not, I still like it.

But I'm also disappointed in Crystal Dynamics... (totally ot)

They get to release versions for Xbox AND Xbox 360, Playstation 2 AND Playstation Portable, but not even one for Gamecube? :(

[Xcom]

She wears backpack, guns and grenades together with that high class evening dress. And you all are concerned about cleavage?

Don't you see, it's strategic fashion decision... to divert attention from her other equipment. ;)

edit..
(bah, it took me too long too post this. John beat me to it :D)

[TRaiderGurl]

I think yall are being ridiculous. People wear stuff like that everyday. I think she looks hot. Why is she a whore all of a sudden? Cause she's wearing a low cut dress thats in style in hollywood these days? She has ALWAYS had the sexy image...get over it.

Watch out, comic lara is showing some thong and big boobs
http://www.comic.eck24.de/images/TOMBRAIDER0207.jpg

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

That's so NOT in style, unless you are stripping your clothes off for money...

I guess my disappointment is that Lara should be different from the 'generic ho' characters in GTA and a million other games
That's what set her apart in the first place

When I was a debutante, I thought I was more like Lara than at any other time in my life. The ball gowns, classical music, all the girls in white opera length gloves and the formality... sadly, now to see her in such, ahem, "not befitting a lady" attire makes me so sad. :( I wish I had a better explanation for you, but that is the best that I can explain it. She used to be a proper lady, but now she is yet again just another busty game character in a sleazy outfit.
Guys like sleazy outfits obviously :D, but no true lady would be caught dead in such a dress

[Legendary Lara Croft]

does she have a necklace or what is it around her neck?

[ShadowOfOblivion]

I'm glad to see the majority of you agree with me here. I'm not calling Lara a whore, I'm talking about how Lara never wears dresses that are cut that low.

There's a difference between wearing something sexy and wearing something sleazy. To me..that dress is very sleazy, and I'm sorry.

[gingerspice+tombobsessed]

WOW - please get a grip. Nowadays sex is not a big deal. No offense to you but this topic is a waste of time...sorry. I think the dress looks great on her.

[TRaiderGurl]

That's so NOT in style, unless you are stripping your clothes off for money...


You need to watch the Golden Globes, the Academy Awards or something. Maybe check out the latest Star or Us magazines.

[Joshorty]

Okay obviously, the point of the game isn't for Lara to be any form of sex figure really. She's sexy and that's it. I think her dress is fine. And please try not to complain too much about the game when it hasn't been released. there will be so many suprises in the game that'll help you either overlook that fact or just think the game's fine with that dress -- don't let the dress bother the whole game I mean:mad:

[susan]

This is Toby Gard's vision of Lara, the one he thought Core hadn't respected properly?

Why do I get the feeling that his appointment was purely a PR move to encourage us to not mind that TR had been taken from Core. Possibly because I see no special strength of vision in his (supposedly) new portrayal of Lara, just the usual breasts and body flaunting.

It looks like Pamela Anderson dyed her hair to me. I like Pam but honestly, do we have to model every woman on her Baywatch image?

A classier Lara, don't make me laugh. :rolleyes:

I highly suggest remodeling the dress to be higher cut, unless you want many of your female audience (and some of the males) to be turned away from the game.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[saispas]

I hate that dress! It may bother the whole game for me, if it is not so necessary to dress like that.

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

I like the new dress as I stated before. It is very appropriate for the character and the venue.

Also, I am very tired of people calling women names because of the way they dress or are dressed. It is impolite in the extreme, and has no place in civil conversation. You'd never dare to say some of those derogatory things to a woman's face, so don't say it here.

***Please watch your tones and language when posting your opinions. Slamming is still not allowed.

Thank you.

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

...but no true lady would be caught dead in such a dress
:rolleyes: And that would make me........???? :mad:

Shall I change my wardrobe to suit your opinions of what a true lady would wear?? Or shall we just say that a true lady doesn't need to be told what she would and would not wear? Are we not allowed to make our own decisions? Must we all bow to someone else's taste?

[midroth]

PT, I'm with you ok? But "his" Lady would not wear it.

You are my Lady and Gorans and... :) Ok?

[WraithStar]

Also, I am very tired of people calling women names because of the way they dress or are dressed. It is impolite in the extreme, and has no place in civil conversation. You'd never dare to say some of those derogatory things to a woman's face, so don't say it here.

No one's comments so far were directed at any members of the forum, least of all you, so there's no need to take offense. And actually, I am fairly blunt and if I see another girl I know dressed like that, I *do* ask her to her face why she feels the need to advertise her body to a bunch of horny college boys. Although thankfully I haven't seen anyone wearing anything quite so tasteless as this dress (yet).

[akamatt]

Guys.. come on get real, it's a beautiful dress. If you're going to be worried about every little thing like this don't even buy the game. I've been wanted to play a level with Lara in a dress forever! Now I'll finally get my chance.

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

No one's comments so far were directed at any members of the forum, least of all you, so there's no need to take offense. And actually, I am fairly blunt and if I see another girl I know dressed like that, I *do* ask her to her face why she feels the need to advertise her body to a bunch of horny college boys. Although thankfully I haven't seen anyone wearing anything quite so tasteless as this dress (yet).
I take offense. I surely do. Because with every comment saying women are less or more for what they wear, the person making the comment is insulting every woman who wants to be free to choose for herself. What gives you the right to dictate to someone else what they should wear anyway? Especially when they feel comfortable wearing it? My wardrobe is nobody else's concern. Period.

To label a woman or man as *insert insult here* based soley on what they have on is completely unfair, irrational, regressive, and narrowminded. To belittle someone based on their looks at all is contemptuous. The things people say about Lara are the things they say about any flesh and blood woman who walks another road. Do we have to burn our bras again to make the point that it's no-one else's business but our own selves' what we wear?

What about those places where women are forced to wear a sheet that completely covers them except for the eyes because "they may make some man excited"? Who gives the powers that dictate that any right? This situation is based in the same feelings. Some people want to control someone else's rights and freedoms, and I am saying "No."

[WraithStar]

I take offense. I surely do. Because with every comment saying women are less or more for what they wear, the person making the comment is insulting every woman who wants to be free to choose for herself. What gives you the right to dictate to someone else what they should wear anyway? Especially when they feel comfortable wearing it? My wardrobe is nobody else's concern. Period.

To label a woman or man as *insert insult here* based soley on what they have on is completely unfair, irrational, regressive, and narrowminded. To belittle someone based on their looks at all is contemptuous. The things people say about Lara are the things they say about any flesh and blood woman who walks another road. Do we have to burn our bras again to make the point that it's no-one else's business but our own selves' what we wear?

What about those places where women are forced to wear a sheet that completely covers them except for the eyes because "they may make some man excited"? Who gives the powers that dictate that any right? This situation is based in the same feelings. Some people want to control someone else's rights and freedoms, and I am saying "No."

Making comments about a person's clothing certainly does not equate to taking away all of her rights and forcing her to wear a burka. This *is* America, and just as a woman is free to wear whatever she wants, I am free to express my opinion about her choices. America is about having the freedom to choose, not about having freedom from consequences of those choices. One of the consequences about how a person dresses (no matter what they are wearing) is that people will see those clothes. Whatever people see about another person factors into their opinion of that person. If a woman wants to dress very revealingly, fine. It's her right to do so. However, she should fully understand how she's advertising herself and she should be prepared for people to think that she is what she looks like. I myself am comfortable enough with my own body that I don't need to show it to every person I meet for constant approval. I don't think dressing revealingly in any way expresses women's freedom. I think it takes that freedom away by reaffirming that women are nothing more than sexual objects for men to play with.

[=Shrensh=]

The dress doesn't bug me particularly; I guess I've gotten used to seeing female computer game characters treated in this way. I've seen much more revealing clothes in other games though. Lara's dress isn't too bad, really.

Not something I would wear though; I'm way too skinny, not all feminine-looking like Lara :p

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

I'm not judging anyone at all except Lara and that as a member of the royal family representing the people of England I believe she would wear something less revealing, whether at a ballroom or a party or a casino. (But then Pr. Harry was caught in a Nazi uniform at a fancy dress so maybe the royals are a cheeky lot after all :D )

I have never seen a dress even remotely like that, on Ebay or anywhere else.

These are the nearest I could find of a real-life replica:

http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/wickedtemptations_1880_53611471http://us.st11.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/wickedtemptations_1880_10625118

from the online store Wicked Temptations lingerie (for all you cosplayers out there ;) )

[midroth]

Oh boy...

"This" kind of discussion we never had while Core has programed her.

Think about...

[Joshorty]

How come you guys are complainin' so much about the game when it hasn't even come out yet?!?! JUST WAIT and SEE 'til the game releases...I'm sure somethin' will come through:D
[at least this thread isn't as annoyin' as the one in Gamespot...people are so annoyin' there.:mad: I gave up on the m yesterday.

You guys can say what you want I guess...there's no stoppin'. But I'm just gonna comment on it as soon as the game comes out;)

[Treeble]

I think Lara has never been much into a lifestyle of a lady, really. Would a "lady" from the royal English aristocracy get herself tucked in shorts and a tanktop and go adventuring killing hundreds of mercenaries herself? Doubt it. ;)

[Xcom]

America is about having the freedom to choose, not about having freedom from consequences of those choices.

The way you present your comments is also a choice. Saying that a woman looks like a cheap stripper broad is something different than saying that perhaps her exquisite dress is a little bit too revealing, in your humble opinion.

[susan]

Here's something I find interesting. From an interview Toby Gard did with the Independent on Sunday newspaper (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4159/is_20040418/ai_n12754084). It's a sunny Monday morning and Toby Gard is explaining how the evil corporation sexed-up his sister and prostituted her around the world. First they made her wear skimpy clothes, he says. Then they gave her breast enlargements. Next, they forced her to become cheap titillation for teenage boys. "It was total violation," he says, thinly.

After Gard couldn't stand it anymore, after he said he was through with the corporation, after he'd resigned, they then went and sold her to Hollywood.Gard continues. "She wasn't a tits-out-for-the-lads type of character in any way. Quite the opposite, in fact. I thought that what was interesting about her was she was this unattainable, austere, dangerous sort of person." "I had problems when they started putting lower-cut clothes on her and sometimes taking her clothes off completely," says Gard. "It's really weird when you see a character of yours doing these things. You can't believe it. You think `She can't do that!' I've spent my life drawing pictures of things and they're mine, you know?" And here he speaks with emphasis. "They belong to me." It's because of this I expected something different from Legend.

It's nobody's business what a woman wears but herself. That I stand by and support, and I can understand why some people are getting annoyed with the way this issue is being discussed here.

But, somehow this misses the point for me. Another representation of a woman designed with her body tantalisingly showing through either tight or revealing clothing. The never-ending disparity between how women are portrayed versus men. Spielberg doesn't put Indy in extra tight lycra shorts, cut low.

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

Spielberg doesn't put Indy in extra tight lycra shorts, cut low.
Ahhhh, but Joss Whedon had Captain "Tight Pants" Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly get completely nekked. :) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: You're watching the wrong shows, Susan. :D I'd like to play that game. ;)

[midroth]

...
Someone a coke, too? PT, Susan..? Diet, normal?
...

[susan]

Ahhhh, but Joss Whedon had Captain "Tight Pants" Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly get completely nekked. : :thumbsup: :thumbsup: You're watching the wrong shows, Susan. :D I'd like to play that game. ;)No, I'd just temporarily forgotten! Yeah, mmm lovely, reserve me a copy too. :D

Y'know I was actually going to mention Firefly earlier as something I'd watched where for once the stereotypes had been jiggled in a great and interesting way. I know you can never get rid of them completely, and I wouldn't want that anyway - it's nice being a woman!! But, so refreshing to see something new and thoughtful. There isn't a single character in that series that I don't like a lot. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :)

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

Tea, thanks. ;) You are as ever the gentleman, midroth. :D


We posted at the same time Susan. :D That show and movie are amazingly amazing. The magic of the realistic and engaging characters was unparalled. :thumbsup: I'd pay huge money if they'd just maaaaake moooooore! :o

[=Shrensh=]

That dress is pretty tame compared to some of the official artworks put out by Core though.

Ahhhh, but Joss Whedon had Captain "Tight Pants" Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly get completely nekked. :) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: You're watching the wrong shows, Susan. :D I'd like to play that game. ;)
Oh yeah *drool*:p

I found it extremely funny (and enjoyable) that in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time the Prince kept losing little bits of his shirt until he was topless at the end :D

[susan]

...
Someone a coke, too? PT, Susan..? Diet, normal?
...LOL. ;):D

[midroth]

Your tea, PT http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/images/recipes/tea_300x193.jpg . It's an "Earl Grey", of course.

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

I found it extremely funny (and enjoyable) that in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time the Prince kept losing little bits of his shirt until he was topless at the end :D
:o :eek: :o :eek: :o I quit playing too soon! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Of course, midroth. ;) Thanks. :D

[WraithStar]

The way you present your comments is also a choice. Saying that a woman looks like a cheap stripper broad is something different than saying that perhaps her exquisite dress is a little bit too revealing, in your humble opinion.

Those are indeed very different comments, representing different opinions. In my opinion, there is nothing exquisite about Lara's dress, in any sense of the word. In that dress, she *does* look like a "cheap stripper broad" (your words, not mine) and no matter how I phrase it, that's what my opinion remains. I view this dress, especially with the fact that they've released screenshots of it a few months before the game comes out, as an advertising stunt and nothing more. After all of the reassurances that Lara's returning to her roots and to raiding tombs, suddenly she's wearing Rayne's dress while sneaking into a party, just like Rayne, to find out information about her mother's killer, just like Rayne. It seems like a cheap ploy to copy off of BloodRayne and draw in a young male audience. If they were so certain that the dress fits in with the story and really, truly belongs there, then why release screenshots of it before the game is even out? Why even mention that it exists unless they are trying to use it for PR, in which case they are going against everything they said earlier about how they would treat Lara.

[midroth]

Fact is: The dress is no Lagerfeld and no Westwood! Unfortunately...
It seem to be a "CD" = change dress...

[ShadowOfOblivion]

I'm sorry you are taking my comments to heart Catsuit, but since when was it classy for a woman to wear a dress where her breasts are technically ready to fall out? J-Lo tried the same thing and it was basically five inches from nudity as the amount of skin showed (in my opinion) was totally inappropriate. This dress is basically J-Lo part two, and the evidence of this is only a page back. I mean the closest match that one person found to the dress was from a lingerie shop!

Why, should a woman with the utmost of class like Lara be wearing a dress that could only be described as fancy lingerie? No..I agree that women's character should not be determined by what they wear, but then again women are far more classier then men and its a proven fact. Plain and simple, Lara has never used her breasts to get answers, so why would she start now?

You're taking my words to heart, when you fail to realize I'm protecting the image of women in video games by making this post. I'm tired of girls being portrayed as big jiggly breasted females in videogames because it's disrespectful.

You know Lara's breasts bounce in Legend and you know 13 year olds are gonna position the cam right inside of that dress so they can see every minute of it.

Can you tell me that you'd want videogame women to be nothing more then a perverted male's fantasy? I doubt it. You want women to be held with respect, just like I dont want Lara to be made into a sex object.

I think you totally missed the point of my post.

[TheLegend]

Do we have to burn our bras again to make the point that it's no-one else's business but our own selves' what we wear?

What about those places where women are forced to wear a sheet that completely covers them except for the eyes because "they may make some man excited"? Who gives the powers that dictate that any right? This situation is based in the same feelings. Some people want to control someone else's rights and freedoms, and I am saying "No."

WOAH! Hold your horses everyone! This argument cannot be compared to the suffragette movement or to modern suppressed women. And you REALLY don't have to burn your bra, CatSuit&Ponytail!
I do support your argument that appearance should be a woman's choice, and she shouldn't be judged, but this choice of outfit is not simply 'Lara's business', as the game is released worldwide, and, despite what we might hope, people do judge books by their covers (or lack of covers in this instance). People have the right to be offended, as Lara Croft is very much in the public eye. The outfit is a little suggestive (or perhaps a lot more), but lets not start arguing that Lara has rights and freedoms or that she has the right to choose what she wears.
However, Lara Croft is a videogame heroine, and she has always been marketed as a sex symbol. Why get angry over a few polygons? When the game is released, don't refuse to buy it just because of a cleavage, or to make a stand against the male chauvinist pigs at Crystal Dynamics. Accept that Tomb Raider is a game, and enjoy it. :)

[EvilNessCroft]

Disappointed by Cristal Dynamics!???????? Noooo way! How can you be! Without them, TR would be dead!! :( the dress looks great on her btw.. maybe it's a little revealing.., but so what? it's just an evening dress.. and there's so much more to talk and think about of this game! and no one should worry about it! CD are doing an awesome job! ^^

they're my heros ! :D

can't wait to play that game XD

[Paul-uk]

OH come on men! what would you say about DOA4

http://ruliweb.dreamwiz.com/data/news6/07m/25/xb360/doa4_02.jpg

this is actually porn lool

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

DOA4, GTA -- that's exactly the point.

Lara is not a stripper in shoddy clothes like the women in EVERY OTHER VIDEO GAME she is supposed to be a sophisiticated wealthy aristocrat
... and mind you, she went to FINISHING SCHOOL!! :eek:

[ShadowOfOblivion]

DOA4, GTA -- that's exactly the point.

Lara is not a stripper in shoddy clothes like the women in EVERY OTHER VIDEO GAME she is supposed to be a sophisiticated wealthy aristocrat
... and mind you, she went to FINISHING SCHOOL!! :eek:

Thank you! Finally someone sees my point and doesn't think I'm trying to control women like certain socities do.

God, I say I dont want Lara to be marketed as a sex object and this whole Women's rights battle comes up. Maybe I care about women's rights in the media and not them being marketed as sex objects for men? Sheesh.

And you may be picketing for women to wear revealing clothing like that Cat, but I know girls around here dont wear dresses like that. There's a certain thing called 'image'.

[=Shrensh=]

Yeah, this isn't about women's right to wear what they like. Lara didn't "choose" to wear that dress, it was decided by video game programmers that she will wear it. I think that CD would do well to listen to people's concerns about the over-sexualisation of Lara. Women actually do not like being objectified. I know I get intensely annoyed when I see Lara being treated as a sex object. The number of female gamers is increasing (Tomb Raider already has a large female fan following) and it wouldn't be a good idea to piss us off.

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Yeah, this isn't about women's right to wear what they like. Lara didn't "choose" to wear that dress, it was decided by video game programmers that she will wear it. I think that CD would do well to listen to people's concerns about the over-sexualisation of Lara. Women actually do not like being objectified. I know I get intensely annoyed when I see Lara being treated as a sex object. The number of female gamers increasing, (Tomb Raider already has a large female fan following) and it wouldn't be a good idea to piss us off.

Exactly. How this turned into a thread about women's rights to wear what they like is beyond me. This thread, if anything is about the media/videogame industry's unfair portrayal of women and how they constantly are reduced to nothing more then sex objects which (in my mind) sets women's rights back about 50 years. Like I said..how many men are gonna trap the camera in a corner and make Lara move so they can see her cleavage bounce around erratically? Probably quite a few. And that's just not right.

If you want a prime example of how female portrayal in the REAL WORLD is going downhill, I give you two words: Jessica Simpson. She talks with little intelligence, uses sex to sell her image and allows her people to market her based solely on her large chest and 'good looks'.

Sound familiar? It's what is being done with Lara Croft despite promises it'd be on the contrary.

Core might have had Lara posing semi-nude in The Last Revelation, but even that was more covered up then this dress is.

[Trinity34]

Wow what a great debate!!

Cat I don't think anyone is saying you can't wear what you want. ;) I think what fans are saying that they expect Lara to be something more than the "other sleazy videogame females". And remember, I put that in quotes... :D I think you can see how other video game characters are portrayed and some of the pictures have been posted here... and yes, it could have been worse for Lara. But I also think Lara could have been dressed in one of those dresses that princess diana was wearing and everything would have been fine.... the fact that CD put her in a very revealing dress makes a statement. To some it shows that CD is only trying to sell the game... to others it shows that CD doesn't care about Lara's reputation and now she is just like any other video game character.... which is sad because now Lara becomes an object. Isn't it funny how we get so emotional about a videogame character??? :)

[MADVDPRODUCTIONS]

Now is that an official release from Crystal Dynamics.. and you know someone have had added that line "Favorite new gadget? Double sided sticky tape" I mean what the heck? Anyways, people who are really hating are people who are interested of her. It doesnt bother me if Lara has cleavage, a woman should be sexy and smart. Looks are decieving, for this case Lara is smarter than she looks, "Not just bimbo" ofcourse.

[Xcom]

but since when was it classy for a woman to wear a dress where her breasts are technically ready to fall out?
This thread, if anything is about the media/videogame industry's unfair portrayal of women and how they constantly are reduced to nothing more then sex objects which (in my mind) sets women's rights back about 50 years.

Excuse me, but what the heck are you talking about? What's with "portrayal" thing? Here is example of how women present themselves at respectful, glamourous events in 21st century. (don't faint on me :D)

http://www.matrixrain.com/misc/forum/dresses.jpg

I mean dresses like these are made by world leading fashion designers and cost more than my average 100 year salary. Basically, you're saying this isn't classy. Well, I'm afraid "classy" has moved on past waving hand from a carriage and cutting ribbons.

[Trinity34]

Btw, did you guys see some of the fan responses to Lara's dress? One of the first comments was... "I wonder if she is wearing any panties?"... a reply..."Don't be silly, she's not wearing any".... "I can't wait to make Lara crawl around in her dress to see what kind of panties she wears".


My question is... does the black dress help or hurt Lara's reputation?

[GoranAgar]

Cat I don't think anyone is saying you can't wear what you want. ;) I think what fans are saying that they expect Lara to be something more than the "other sleazy videogame females".
So they are saying a real woman can wear such a dress but a video game character can not? Sounds like a half-baked thought to me.

[Taigerr]

Those who are defending the dress please answer this... Did you go to finishing school and if so would that dress have been one that would have been approved of by your tutors as evening wear to ANY party.... Theres a program here in the UK called Austrailian Princess where Lady Di's former butler, Paul Burrel, takes 12 ordinary Australian girls some from cities and others from farming environments and tries to instill in them some English culture, finnesse, aristocratic grace and elegence...In one episode he asked them to go shopping for evening wear nearly all turned up in similar attire to this and the first thing he said was a lady never shows too much cleavage or legs at any social event or party it is unlady like.... Now my point is: despite some of these girls being from very wealthy backgrounds they had no class and none had ever been to a finishing school.. YES the girls looked sexy but the way the chose to do it made them look extremely accessible way... nothing at all left to the imagination... ..... when put in the context of what Toby Gard said, CD are selling out... this is sexualising Lara. I would not expect a debutante or Lady to go about like this... If the plot was one where the party was in a men only club, where the only women in the place were the performing girls, would not be allowed to wear anything covering more than 35-45% of their bodies once INSIDE the front door of the club (no over coats allowed), then yeah I'd say she was using her initiative dressing like that... Oh and wouldn't it just be great if CD rounded the look off with 6inch "glass" glamour platform shoes as seen here>>

http://www.wildfree.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?store_code=WF&screen=PROD&product_code=hh-cobra-blue

Want Inspiration, How about Audrey Hepburns dress in Breakfast at Tiffanys?? Maybe a little closer cut but with not at all so much showing and adding some long gloves would possibly give her look that little extra edge that says: "This girls different..... "

CD.... please do something about this.... and also make Zip not so stereotypically blacK eh?!..... i.e cocky verging on arrogant, thieving, uneducated excon....

Its not ALWAYS just about gameplay you know....

[Taigerr]

Excuse me, but what the heck are you talking about? What's with "portrayal" thing? Here is example of how women present themselves at respectful, glamourous events in 21st century. (don't faint on me :D)

http://www.matrixrain.com/misc/forum/dresses.jpg

I mean dresses like these are made by world leading fashion designers and cost more than my average 100 year salary. Basically, you're saying this isn't classy. Well, I'm afraid "classy" has moved on past waving hand from a carriage and cutting ribbons.


Did any of these people go to finishing school.... Sex sells and hollywood needs it to sell its no longer about good scripts... I wonder how many scripts Charlize Theron recieves that ACTUALLY REQUIRE HER TO ACT???? thankfully she is a good actress... How many aristocrates... TRUE BRITISH aristocrates are attending these events.... oh hold on I see one, J-Lo... my apologise

[Taigerr]

And another Cathrine Zeta Jones-Douglas... from Wales (UK) the heartland of aristocratic society....

[Treeble]

How many aristocrates... TRUE BRITISH aristocrates are attending these events....

Lara Croft is not real. :rolleyes:

[Xcom]

Did any of these people go to finishing school....

Quit this finishing school nonsense 'cause that really smells like middleages. Do they teach there how to raid tombs, shoot machine guns, fight wild animals, use kung-fu on bad guys? Princess Di didn't do all those things, but Lara does, and I bet she didn't learn it there.

Lara Croft is not real. :rolleyes:

:eek:
Surely you are mistaken.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

http://www.matrixrain.com/misc/forum/dresses.jpg


** CLASSY?? :eek: ** (pointing to the 4th white|| panel dress on bottom row)
That was on all the 'worst dressed' lists. Generally in good taste, you wouldn't have a plunging bodice in front and exposed legs up to the hips on both sides (see white dress, 4th on bottom row). The other low-cut dresses in these pics are long dresses which cover the knees or go all the way to the floor. NONE of them is a plunging neckline, low-back and with mini-panels in place of a skirt (except the white one fourth on the bottom row)

The idea in these pics and in general is always to "reveal yet conceal" -- and the Legend dress leaves absolutely nothing to the imagination. Its not even a full skirt! That sort of detail makes the difference between sexy and skanky. These dresses are unique and expensive clothing, but you can clearly see how tacky and cheap-looking the fourth one on the bottom row is in comparison, because it reveals almost everything.

That's my complaint really. Its a tacky dress that shows too much skin, you can see her breasts AND her back AND her legs, and Lara shouldn't be portrayed that way.
Re: Finishing School
If they write that she went to "Swiss Finishing School" in her profile, then don't put her in a trashy evening dress and expect people not to notice the extraodinary contradiction. You don't learn how to fire guns but you learn how to serve and take tea, the polite mannerisms of the "upper crust" and attire for different formal events... I think it's entirely possible the (American) CD development team doesn't even know what finishing school is, or they don't care anyway because they think "showing skin" will sell more copies of the game than a character kept consistent with her background/ upbringing, IMHO

[Treeble]

Re: Finishing School
If they write that she went to "Swiss Finishing School" in her profile, then don't put her in a trashy evening dress and expect people not to notice the extraodinary contradiction. You don't learn how to fire guns but you learn how to serve and take tea, the polite mannerisms of the "upper crust" and attire for different formal events... I think it's entirely possible the (American) CD development team doesn't even know what finishing school is, or they don't care anyway because they think "showing skin" will sell more copies of the game than a character kept consistent with her background/ upbringing, IMHO

Her profile's been changed. It doesn't mention a Finishing School anymore.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

:eek: Wasn't she also the Duchess of St. Bridget?? Maybe the finishing school vs. posing topless in TR4 (and then AOD happened) was too contradictory. :rolleyes: Or perhaps they want her to be more of an 'average girl' not a typical royal English heiress? :confused:
That's a pity.
Regardless, the dress is simply too revealing for anyone of her social position, especially since female game characters are always depicted with so few clothes, its a shame to do it to Lara too.

[ShadowOfOblivion]

:eek: Wasn't she also the Duchess of St. Bridget?? Maybe the finishing school vs. posing topless in TR4 (and then AOD happened) was too contradictory. :rolleyes: Or perhaps they want her to be more of an 'average girl' not a typical royal English heiress? :confused:
That's a pity.
Regardless, the dress is simply too revealing for anyone of her social position, especially since female game characters are always depicted with so few clothes, its a shame to do it to Lara too.

Yeah I'm afraid that one slip and her boobs will come out. :|

I'm also very amazed by the large and healthy debate this has created. I thought people would call me a n00b and tell me to go away, but instead we have some people on my side, and others fully against me.

This is interesting :D.

[Johnny]

Quit this finishing school nonsense 'cause that really smells like middleages. Do they teach there how to raid tombs, shoot machine guns, fight wild animals, use kung-fu on bad guys? Princess Di didn't do all those things, but Lara does, and I bet she didn't learn it there.

Very well said, Xcom! :thumbsup:

Lara Croft is not real. :rolleyes:

What a shame... I was hoping Lara would autograph my TR: Legend game box in person. *tear* :( :D

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Quit this finishing school nonsense 'cause that really smells like middleages. Do they teach there how to raid tombs, shoot machine guns, fight wild animals, use kung-fu on bad guys? Princess Di didn't do all those things, but Lara does, and I bet she didn't learn it there.


Au contraire my friend. I bet Princess Di was an asskicking, gun toting, tomb raiding, mean "mother-watch yo' mouth!" in her spare time.

Every good girl has a bad side :p.

[Johnny]

Every good girl has a bad side :p.

It's always the "innocent" ones you have to look out for. :p :D

[ShadowOfOblivion]

It's always the "innocent" ones you have to look out for. :p :D

Totally.

Back on topic though...admittingly..one level isn't gonna make me totally hate the game. I just feel Lara could be covered so much more in that level.

It's really too late to change it now.

[Legendary Lara Croft]

Every good girl has a bad side :p.

now that you know I will have to kill you... sorry, it's just the way it is :D :D :D

[Raven]

The thing that bothers me about all this is not the dress so much as the hypocrisy.

We've all heard Toby Gard bemoaning the way Lara was portrayed and promoted in an overly sexual manner at times-and I have to say I agree with him. But this latest picture makes something of a mockery of his idea of making Lara "untouchable and demure" again.

And as for "taking Lara back to her roots", they've seen fit to make significant changes to her bio and backstory, which inevitably result in a different character. I don't see this as going back to the original Lara at all.

[=Shrensh=]

Come now, people, stop this "finishing school" thing. Does anyone here actually know what "finishing school" is? I sure as hell don't. Nor do I care. The issue of "what a Lady would do" went out of the window when Core had Lara posing topless. The issue here is Crystal treating Lara like every other female game character is treated. The fact that such a fierce debate has erupted over a dress shows what a sensitive issue this is.

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Come now, people, stop this "finishing school" thing. Does anyone here actually know what "finishing school" is? I sure as hell don't. Nor do I care. The issue of "what a Lady would do" went out of the window when Core had Lara posing topless. The issue here is Crystal treating Lara like every other female game character is treated. The fact that such a fierce debate has erupted over a dress shows what a sensitive issue this is.

Yeah Lara was made famous by not being like every other game girl out there. Now she seems fit to be a part of the DOA cast.

[susan]

http://www.matrixrain.com/misc/forum/dresses.jpg
There are some really nice dresses here. The one Halle Berry is wearing would suit Lara's large bust. In fact just looking at her in this picture, she'd make a nice classy Lara.

As Xxx_Lara_xxX says though, the white one at the bottom is the only one that looks like the one Lara is wearing in the game. Maybe the blue one on the row above a little bit too.

[TheLegend]

Here ya go! Lara is sexy yet reserved:


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f88/999legend/dress.jpg

I think that the angle and lighting in this shot are partly to blame for the outrage that has developed. In other shots, Lara looks glamorous and sophisticated. Also, we don't know what Lara's reason for wearing the dress is, but if it is to meet Yazuka mobsters, then she is appropriately dressed for that situation!

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Maybe it is the angle, but it's also pretty obvious from the screen that a LOT of breast is showing.

Yes..we'll see Lara's bum for most of the time but it'll be a nagging issue during cutscenes I assure you.

[David 070]

i like the outfit myself

[Xcom]

Generally in good taste, you wouldn't have a plunging bodice in front and exposed legs up to the hips on both sides (see white dress, 4th on bottom row). T

Well, Lara may be on a mission there, and it can be dangerous, so she needs freedom of movement. I'm very curious how one would perform saltos and all her acrobatics with the dress tightly covering the legs and going to the ground. "Good taste" can kill you. :D

[David 070]

what bothers me is if u look at Lara's shoulder.they could have smoothed her out better.

o well,this is just a very minor detail though.the game itself is going to rule!:D

[ShadowOfOblivion]

what bothers me is if u look at Lara's shoulder.they could have smoothed her out better.

o well,this is just a very minor detail though.the game itself is going to rule!:D

The more I think about it, these screens are probably early.

Why do I say that? Cause the default outfit's shoulders are smoothed out but the dress outfit is jaggy.

So for all we know the final product could be a complete about face from what we see here.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

Actually this is a VERY old debate... :D

If I remember correctly the Catholic church put out some sort of official ban or warning against playing Tomb Raider 1 (the original!!!) because it was "overtly sexual and immoral" :p
...Back in the day when her blue top went all the way up to her neck :D

The proper thing to do IMHO is to put her in a DECENT cocktail dress and only use weapons she can strap onto her back. Does she really need twin pistols in every single level? If there ever was a better excuse to have a 'no thigh pistols' level it would be so Lara could wear a dress in good taste

She could still sling an MP5 across her back :D but I agree the main reason for designing those leg slits is for the holsters.

But it neednt be a tight dress altogether... the bodice could be tight and low cut like in the game as long as there is a decent length on the skirt allowing freedom of movement....

http://www.asos.com/images/inv/C/8/48/2853/Green/image1l.jpghttp://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/2d/9b/0b_2.JPG

or have one thigh holser like this:
http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/Angelina-Jolie-and-Bard-Pitt-s-latest-movie-Mr-and-Mrs-Smith-took-51-million-in-the-opening-weekend-2.jpg

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Actually this is a VERY old debate... :D

If I remember correctly the Catholic church put out some sort of official ban or warning against playing Tomb Raider 1 (the original!!!) because it was "overtly sexual and immoral" :p
...Back in the day when her blue top went all the way up to her neck :D

The proper thing to do IMHO is to put her in a DECENT cocktail dress and only use weapons she can strap onto her back. Does she really need twin pistols in every single level? If there ever was a better excuse to have a 'no thigh pistols' level it would be so Lara could wear a dress in good taste

She could still sling an MP5 across her back :D but I agree the main reason for designing those leg slits is for the holsters.

But it neednt be a tight dress altogether... the bodice could be tight and low cut like in the game as long as there is a decent length on the skirt allowing freedom of movement....

http://www.asos.com/images/inv/C/8/48/2853/Green/image1l.jpghttp://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/2d/9b/0b_2.JPG

See now...if the dress was like option B there, I'd be one happy person.

[John Carter]

Well, Lara may be on a mission there, and it can be dangerous, so she needs freedom of movement. I'm very curious how one would perform saltos and all her acrobatics with the dress tightly covering the legs and going to the ground. "Good taste" can kill you. :D

Arguments appealing to reason such as this, and mine to the effect that at a Yakuza party one dresses like a party girl in order to fit in and win the day, clearly have no purchase round these parts. As for what English aristocrat adventurers will and won't do, historically, a study of the life of Sir Richard Burton (http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/burton/)(no, not the actor) might be of educational interest.

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Arguments appealing to reason such as this, and mine to the effect that at a Yakuza party one dresses like a party girl in order to fit in and win the day, clearly have no purchase round these parts. As for what English aristocrat adventurers will and won't do, historically, a study of the life of Sir Richard Burton (http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/burton/)(no, not the actor) might be of educational interest.

Nobody ever said your arguements had 'no purchase', we just dont like our Lara showing breast.

As long as there is a good explanation why she is wearing something like that, then it's fine.

[Legendary Lara Croft]

Mrs Smith was more like Lara to me than Angelina in TR movie

[BloodRayne]

meh i still think the dress is fine. whatever.

[WraithStar]

Arguments appealing to reason such as this, and mine to the effect that at a Yakuza party one dresses like a party girl in order to fit in and win the day, clearly have no purchase round these parts. As for what English aristocrat adventurers will and won't do, historically, a study of the life of Sir Richard Burton (http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/burton/)(no, not the actor) might be of educational interest.

Releasing shots of Lara wearing this dress before the game is even out is clearly a publicity stunt, nothing more. We obviously don't know the story and don't know if the context is justified or not because that information hasn't been released (nor should it be, because they shouldn't spoil the story). They simply should not have released pictures of Lara dressed like this because they *are* trying to exploit her physical appearance and that goes against all of the hype they've been building up about returning Lara to her roots and making her a Lady again. It angers me that they would call her "Lady Croft" so many times in their new profile of her, and then at the same time they release screenshots of her wearing a dress just like BloodRayne's. Incidentally, if Lara *is* trying to sneak into a bad guy's party to find information about her mother's killer, as your earlier post implied, then that sounds like a direct rip-off of BloodRayne 2's story, too. So I'm left wondering if Lara is now Rayne junior and everything that made her Lara is gone.

On a side note, how the hell can that dress possibly be good to wear in a fight? If Lara moves the wrong way, it'll fall off and get tangled up on her arms and she won't be able to shoot anyone.

[susan]

Releasing shots of Lara wearing this dress before the game is even out is clearly a publicity stunt, nothing more. It certainly has turned all the talk away from Tomb Raiding to "how does Lara stay in that dress". Hence the article itself pondering whether she now needs to carry sticky tape in her backpack. Spielberg would never do this to Indy.
... at a Yakuza party one dresses like a party girl in order to fit in ...
You can contrive any situation in a storyline to justify something. But, somehow, women always seem to find themselves in situations where they need to be scantily dressed. :rolleyes:

[TRaiderGurl]

The dress is probably a high fashion designer dress like the one she modeled in Face magazine befroe TR 2 came out...
http://www.planetlara.com/pics/P26/Lara-Dress.jpg


or have one thigh holser like this:
http://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/Angelina-Jolie-and-Bard-Pitt-s-latest-movie-Mr-and-Mrs-Smith-took-51-million-in-the-opening-weekend-2.jpg

http://www.comictrek.net/main/images/lara_croft_statue_big.jpghttp://www.comictrek.net/main/images/lara_croft_statue_back_big.jpghttp://www.comictrek.net/main/images/lara_croft_statue2.jpg
Then people will say "OOOOO EMMMM GEEEE, Lara is showing too much leg, how disgraceful!" :rolleyes:

Lara enjoys being sexy, so why should yall complain

[WraithStar]

Both of those dresses (the red one and the Mr. & Mrs. Smith one) look very good and aren't grossly revealing. I wouldn't have a problem if Lara was wearing either of those (or the blue one from Chronicles, that one was nice too:)) Or well, the black one should have shoulder straps. It doesn't in the figurine, but it does in the picture from the movie.

[TRaiderGurl]

So this has nothing to do with her but hanging out? Just her breasts? Cause her butt and other unmetionable could easily be seen in all those dresses with the large all the way up the leg slits. And her breasts are still quite revealing in her black strapless. I see lots of cleavage.

I think yall all just looking for something to whine about.

[WraithStar]

So this has nothing to do with her but hanging out? Just her breasts? Cause her butt and other unmetionable could easily be seen in all those dresses with the large all the way up the leg slits. And her breasts are still quite revealing in her black strapless. I see lots of cleavage.

I think yall all just looking for something to whine about.

:confused: In those dresses, her butt and her breasts are entirely covered. You can see her leg through the slit, but that's it. I can't see any cleavage in either of those dresses, especially not to the extent of the dress she's allegedly wearing in the game, which shows her entire cleavage from her throat to her bellybutton. Oh, and I did say that I like the movie version of the Mr.& Mrs. Smith dress better than the figurine version. The movie version is better with the straps because it doesn't look like the dress is stuck onto her.

[ShadowOfOblivion]

So this has nothing to do with her but hanging out? Just her breasts? Cause her butt and other unmetionable could easily be seen in all those dresses with the large all the way up the leg slits. And her breasts are still quite revealing in her black strapless. I see lots of cleavage.

I think yall all just looking for something to whine about.

Yeah and I'm sure you're confident in wearing something as loose and dangerously revealing as that dress?

I assume you're a girl so..question: Would you want your breasts accidentally popping out in public? I quite honestly doubt it.

[SasaPisa]

I’ll leave the social ideology arguments to others as I think it’s not relevant to this particular issue.
There’s nothing in the TR line of games that should lead one to assume that Lara strictly holds to the conservative fashion exemplified by much of the European aristocracy. We can however make other assumption of Lara based on the provided information and past history of the franchise.

We can assume someone of her pedigreed and privileged back-round and taste for adventure might exercise good taste with an understated elegance flirting the line with risqué. Definitely the risqué part has long played a role in advertising TR in establishing Lara as both a sophisticated yet sexy heroine.

While I may not have cared for much of the sexual innuendo associated with past TR advertising campaigns featuring Lara (the bathing suits and such…) she is after all a fictional character. Ignoring that, she has always been shown sporting fashionable clothing in good contextual taste. Presenting Lara in tasteless fashion conflicts with the established view of the character.

The above is a long winded way of saying that the dress shown on page one is ugly. Whatever the intention was it’s not working, it’s garish. You may like it…you may also have bad taste. But, beloved personal fashion faux pa’s aside the dress is garish and tasteless. Where to start, the width of the strap, the cut, the drape of the fabric, ect…it’s all wrong. Someone at CD needs a refresher course on high fashion.

p.s.

Eh, my english was a bit off and I left ot a few words..corrected now.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

Presenting Lara in tasteless fashion conflicts with the established view of the character.

The above is a long winded way of saying that the dress shown on page one is ugly. Whatever the intention was it’s not working, it’s garish. beloved personal fashion faux pa’s aside the dress is garish and tasteless. Where to start, the width of the strap, the cut, the drape of the fabric, ect…it’s all wrong. Someone at CD needs a refresher course on high fashion.

Amen.:thumbsup:

[Johnny]

http://www.comictrek.net/main/images/lara_croft_statue_big.jpghttp://www.comictrek.net/main/images/lara_croft_statue_back_big.jpghttp://www.comictrek.net/main/images/lara_croft_statue2.jpg
Then people will say "OOOOO EMMMM GEEEE, Lara is showing too much leg, how disgraceful!" :rolleyes:

I LOVE that dress. :cool: It would've been cool to see Lara in it, but I still like the new black one. ;)

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

The Chronicles dress covered her legs, her bust and her arms, it was a formal opera dress and very elegant. I wonder if they copied it for Mr & Mrs Smith? The Legend dress leaves nothing at all to the imagination, not even her rump because its barely covered with cloth flaps :confused:

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

BTW I can't believe this has gone on for 5 pages-- Does CD even care about our divergences of opinion ? :rolleyes: :D

[Xcom]

Spielberg would never do this to Indy.


Do what to Indy? Put him in a dress? :D

[Taigerr]

Lara Croft is not real. :rolleyes:


LARA NOT REAL!!!??? :confused: ... Sir/Madam... I scoff at your outrageous nonsense.... why, she is right here next to me!!

[Treeble]

And are you bothered about the way she's dressed up? She'll say sod it, after all she couldn't stand the aristocracy anymore after the plane crash and became a rebel, didn't she?

Why would a rebel still follow aristocrat manners is beyond me.

(and this post is based on that profile of her that mentions the Swiss Finishing School, which she frequented just before the plane crash)

[WraithStar]

Do what to Indy? Put him in a dress? :D

Put him in something disgustingly ugly in order to capitalize on his body after promising to treat his character with the utmost respect.

[TRaiderGurl]

Yeah and I'm sure you're confident in wearing something as loose and dangerously revealing as that dress?

I assume you're a girl so..question: Would you want your breasts accidentally popping out in public? I quite honestly doubt it.
Actually, i have no problem wearing stuff like that, cause it looks nice and sexy...i guess that makes me a slut or stripper then.

And second of all, shes a video game character, her breasts aren't going to fall out.

[Melonie_TR]

I could deal with the dress if her breast didn't look like balloons. C my foot, she's at least a D there. Yuna wore a revealing top in FFX-2, but she looked a lot nicer because she had better form. Lara looks fake, no other way around it.

Toby Gard obviously didn't care very much about Lara's image to allow that. Sure, he talks the talk, but obviously he doesn't walk the walk.

There's a lot of beauty in modesty, not in trampiness. This is by far the trashiest outfit she's ever worn in a game. Shame on CD. Some one needs to start a petition.

[ShadowOfOblivion]

I could deal with the dress if her breast didn't look like balloons. C my foot, she's at least a D there. Yuna wore a revealing top in FFX-2, but she looked a lot nicer because she had better form. Lara looks fake, no other way around it.

Toby Gard obviously didn't care very much about Lara's image to allow that. Sure, he talks the talk, but obviously he doesn't walk the walk.

There's a lot of beauty in modesty, not in trampiness. This is by far the trashiest outfit she's ever worn in a game. Shame on CD. Some one needs to start a petition.

That's why I love you Melonie, you always see what I have to say eye to eye. This is the worst outfit that's been featured in a Tomb Raider game. It looked far better in the concept art when much less of her breasts were showing.

(This is Derek btw.)

[danny.rex]

Is very stupid making so much drama when Lara's wears something revealing and sexy, why can't you let lara be sexy?

Lara is a sexy character, deal with it

I think she looks fantastic and it doesn't make her a slut, a revealing cleavage is not trashy, and the female body is a beautiful thing

the aristocrats don't wear dresses like that, neither raid tombs or shoot people and animals

Yeah, Diana wouldn't wear that, but she neither would wear booty shorts or anything that Lara wears

If someone is so mad about someone else (even if she not real) when she wear something revealing, she/he must have problems accepting his/her own body

[ShadowOfOblivion]

That's the thing. It's not SEXY its SLEAZY. There isn't a pinch of class to be found in that dress at all, and if you wanna be sexy you gotta know how to respect yourself by not wearing sleazy clothing first.

And uh, for the record? I'm perfectly fine with my body. Thanks.

[susan]

Do what to Indy? Put him in a dress?
Put him in something disgustingly ugly in order to capitalize on his body after promising to treat his character with the utmost respect.

Exactly. And by doing so risk making Indy something ridiculous to titter at a la, "Favourite new gadget? Double sided sticky tape". Hoo hoo hoo, very funny. :rolleyes:

[susan]

Yeah, Diana wouldn't wear that, but she neither would wear booty shorts or anything that Lara wears
Princess Diana did wear shorts that were the length of the shorts in the original games - on her holidays. They were a reasonable size.

It's only for Legend that Lara's been given knickers to wear as shorts. I don't care for them making the shorts outfit ten times more skimpy than before either.

[Acceber]

I think 'sleazy' only occurs when someone else labels it so. 'Sleaze' is in the inhibitions of the beholder; sexy is in the confidence and self assurance of the wearer, the latter two characteristics being inherent to Lara Croft. Therefore, I know what I think of the dress on such a character. ;)

[GoranAgar]

Anyone remember that stupid, very ridiculous and to my taste EXTRA OFFENSIVE jeans outfit she wore in AOD? Now that deserved a pertition.

[=Shrensh=]

I don't think that Lara's dress is particularly bad compared to some of the stuff that Core put her through. She is a female game character and female game characters tend to get treated like this. It could have been a lot worse (look at the female characters in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within for example). It would be nice if this wasn't the case, but I doubt it's going to stop any time soon.

You can contrive any situation in a storyline to justify something. But, somehow, women always seem to find themselves in situations where they need to be scantily dressed. :rolleyes:
Pretty much my exact thoughts when people say "But Lara has to extract information from a Yakuza party." :rolleyes:

Well, Lara may be on a mission there, and it can be dangerous, so she needs freedom of movement. I'm very curious how one would perform saltos and all her acrobatics with the dress tightly covering the legs and going to the ground. "Good taste" can kill you. :D
I don't know if a well-endowed woman would wear that dress if she's expecting to have to fight... Running around and jumping with no support in the chest-area? Doing acrobatics with flopping dirty-pillows? :p

[GoranAgar]

BTW, time for some humour:

http://www.montypythonpages.com/pictures/spanish_inq.jpg

[Sophia Leigh]

Anyone remember that stupid, very ridiculous and to my taste EXTRA OFFENSIVE jeans outfit she wore in AOD? Now that deserved a pertition.
Oh come on Goran, I liked that outfit :p :D

[=Shrensh=]

http://www.montypythonpages.com/pictures/spanish_inq.jpg

No one expects the Spanish inquisition!

[GoranAgar]

Oh come on Goran, I liked that outfit :p :D
And that is completly alright. But I was not kidding. I emotinally hated that outfit. I hated to see Lara dressed like 35 of my female colleagues here in the office. Boooooooooooooring is way more offensive to me that daaaaaring.

But did I start a petition or go out and try to convince the rest of the world (forum)? No, I did not. And why did I not do it? Because nothing depends on it how Lara dresses and I will never convince anyone. This thread is futile, but hopefully no yelling and name calling will emerge (anymore).

[=Shrensh=]

Online petitions are utterly useless anyway :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I have no problem with the dress and I'm rather surprised by the controversy it's caused here. Crystal should pay attention to it though. Women represent a huge potential market and you don't want to alienate them by making them feel objectified.

[GoranAgar]

Do not mistake vocal people with many people. ;)

[=Shrensh=]

I know the difference between vocal people and many people ;) It don't make people's opinions any less valid and doesn't mean that other people don't share the same opinions. Anyway, this is a rather fun debate :p

Well, as long as Lara doesn't turn up looking like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/shrensh/PoP/normal_Art-31.jpg
I'll be happy. Seriously, how on earth do you swordfight in outfits like that :eek:

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

:)
Seriously though, I have no problem with the dress and I'm rather surprised by the controversy it's caused here.

Crystal should pay attention to it though. Women represent a huge potential market and you don't want to alienate them by making them feel objectified.
I agree that it is a fine line to walk. After all, I wouldn't want them to make her outfits boringly normal and lose that part of the female market who actually like to be sexy.

I'd never be caught dead in the jeans outfit from AOD. ;) My goodness, I found that so unclassy and tasteless. I was embarrassed for her trooping around Paris with that on! :D But I soldiered on, thinking, well, she must have a reason for dressing so tacky, and kept on playing. :)

[=Shrensh=]

I don't know what the fuss is about the dress myself. I don't think Lara looks "trampy" or anything; she's always dressed rather scantily. When I first saw the dress I really didn't think anything of it & I just moved on. I am concerned about Lara being turned into a sex object though. Eidos hasn't really treated her terribly well in that regard in the past.

[Xcom]

Put him in something disgustingly ugly in order to capitalize on his body after promising to treat his character with the utmost respect.

LMAO! That's because Harrison Ford didn't have the kind of body you would want to capitalize on. Besides, his hairy chest could scare small children away. :p

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

Exactly. And by doing so risk making Indy something ridiculous to titter at a la, "Favourite new gadget? Double sided sticky tape". Hoo hoo hoo, very funny. :rolleyes:
Susan, I was just struck by something (in the shower :o ) that Steven Spielberg did that was much much worse than the Tomb Raider game developers making Lara wear that lovely dress. Indianna Jones not only slept with a Nazi, but the very same Nazi that his own Father had slept with.

The dress only suggests something to people who equate clothes with morality, but that act of Indy's/Spielburg's was not unclear in the least. I am sure there was more than a few titters, high fives and nudge nudging related to that series of scenes. So let's not saint Mr. Spielburg just yet. :D It's all slightly Oedipusian, if you ask me. ;) *titter* :D

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

LMAO! That's because Harrison Ford didn't have the kind of http://www.catagar.com/treasure/ValentineBirthday-thumb.jpg (http://www.catagar.com/treasure/ValentineBirthday.jpg) you would want to capitalize on. Besides, his hairy chest could scare small children away. :p
*snicker*
How nice of you to remember the Valantine/Birthday gift I made for Lara a few years back. ;) http://www.catagar.com/treasure/ValentineBirthday-thumb.jpg (http://www.catagar.com/treasure/ValentineBirthday.jpg)

[GoranAgar]

I am in the process of getting a new signature picture, but I can not decide. Which one should I use:

http://www.catagar.com/load/NextSig1.jpg http://www.catagar.com/load/NextSig2.jpg

... or is this the wrong thread to ask? :o

[StarChampagne]

What a debate... so much intellectual discussion over something I hadn't given an awful lot of thought. I don't like the dress much but it is definitely better than some of Jodie Marsh's oufits. And Lara is an aristocrat. Hardly a conventional one, but why give her such a British accent and then dress her in something that doesn't fit her image. Her classic tomb raiding outfit is worn more privately, but a dress would be on show for everyone.

And having heard Toby Gard complaining about Core - what was it? - overly sexualising Lara, it is just a tad hypocritical to put her in something like that. I don't think that the people who designed that dress were unaware of how revealing it is. And I don't think that they were unaware of Lara having a sexual image. And yes, Core did put Lara in a bikini and the whole arm-bra thing, but as far as I know those outfits never actually featured in the game, unlike this dress. Just a thought. But it's the whole hypocrisy and sexualisation issue thing.

I didn't think Lara's denim outfit was bad...

But I'd rather have a pretty level than a pretty outfit :)

And lol Goran. Maybe everyone is taking this a bit too seriously. I can hardly talk though :D

[Xcom]

*snicker*
How nice of you to remember the Valantine/Birthday gift I made for Lara a few years back. ;)

:eek:.. I guess he was working out like mad, wasn't he? :p

And yes, Core did put Lara in a bikini and the whole arm-bra thing, but as far as I know those outfits never actually featured in the game, unlike this dress.


I don't really see that much of a difference here. It's about whole image.

[=Shrensh=]

lol, Goran :D No one's complaining that CD are dressing Lara any worse than Core did. In fact, people are saying it's hypocrytical of people at CD to complain about Core dressing Lara skimpily, and then going and doing it themselves. But I didn't care about her clothing in the other games, and I don't care about her clothing in the new game.

Really, it's pictures like this one that annoyed me and made me dislike Core:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/shrensh/tr3/CREDIT09.jpg
You may not be able to see that much skin, but you can tell she hasn't got any clothes on under there. Honestly, was it really necessary to include this picture in the credits of TR3?

And is this one a real one that was released by Core? Because it pisses me off to see pictures like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/shrensh/misc/Coresucks.jpg

[StarChampagne]

I don't really see that much of a difference here. It's about whole image.

True, true, but it's also like having a 3D scantily clad Lara to play with rather than just a picture. I think that the best thing would just be to ask Lara what she thinks :D

[StarChampagne]

Oh and yep, Shrensh. Yeowch. And that was a picture in Chronicles I think. Ok, right now the worst-dressed award is going to Core. Make that the no-dressed award.

[midroth]

I am in the process of getting a new signature picture, but I can not decide. Which one should I use:

http://www.catagar.com/load/NextSig1.jpg [IMG]
...Uhm,,,this one! :)

[Xcom]

True, true, but it's also like having a 3D scantily clad Lara to play with rather than just a picture.

Ah, I see. You are saying interactivity makes things worse; that, basically, images are not as bad as long you (a player) don't have control. Right? Therefore, for example, if Lara is to appear semi-nude in CG motion picture, that wouldn't be as bad as the same display in a game. Do you agree?

I think that the best thing would just be to ask Lara what she thinks.

Yeah, that would have been nice. ;)

[Solange]

*snicker*
How nice of you to remember the Valantine/Birthday gift I made for Lara a few years back. ;) http://www.catagar.com/treasure/ValentineBirthday-thumb.jpg (http://www.catagar.com/treasure/ValentineBirthday.jpg)


Lol I was looking for that thread when I saw Xcoms post, but I couldn't find it! Thanks for posting it again! :D I also remeber these ones as excellent examples of Mr Ford's attributes:

http://members.chello.se/solange/show/Fun/indyraider.jpg http://members.chello.se/solange/show/Fun/indyraider2.jpg

I couldn't find this thread either, so I don't know who to give credit, is this also your work, Catsuit?

[susan]

Susan, I was just struck by something (in the shower) that Steven Spielberg did that was much much worse than the Tomb Raider game developers making Lara wear that lovely dress. Indianna Jones not only slept with a Nazi, but the very same Nazi that his own Father had slept with.

The dress only suggests something to people who equate clothes with morality, but that act of Indy's/Spielburg's was not unclear in the least. I am sure there was more than a few titters, high fives and nudge nudging related to that series of scenes. So let's not saint Mr. Spielburg just yet. :D It's all slightly Oedipusian, if you ask me. ;) *titter* :DLOL. :D

Trust me, I would never make Spielberg is a saint. ;) I see what you're saying but my experience is no one is going to ridicule Indy for sleeping with the same woman as his father. To me when someone high fives someone else's behaviour, they not laughing at, they're laughing with that person. It's a form of applause.

When I see Indy put into a skimpy jock-strap, one that's so small reviewers are wondering if he'll stay in it whilst running about, and if he now keeps a roll of double-sided sticky tape under his hat as standard, then I'll believe that male and female heros are being treated the same.

I don't want to ban sexy, revealing clothing or all characters with next to nothing on. I'm just fed up with the imbalance, as I see it, in how the two sexes are portrayed.

For me, when representations of women are nearly always half-dressed compared to the men, that says something about our society that is very similar to those one's that put women behind sheets. The syndrome is the same, the symptoms merely expressed differently.

I know not everyone agrees with me, but I hope they can see what I'm trying to say. :)

[StarChampagne]

Ah, I see. You are saying interactivity makes things worse; that, basically, images are not as bad as long you (a player) don't have control. Right? Therefore, for example, if Lara is to appear semi-nude in CG motion picture, that wouldn't be as bad as the same display in a game. Do you agree?


I wasn't actually trying to say that but looks like I did :o . Lol. Hmmm... put it another way: after Toby saying how Core overly-sexualised Lara, it's a bit rich to put her in that dress. And Core DID, judging by the semi-nude pictures. However, with the dress CD may appear to some to be doing the same thing. Also, Core didn't put Lara in as-revealing outfits in the game. They used those pictures for publicity, which was bad enough, but in the game we have to look at it all the time, which could be seen to be worse. Well, maybe for the gamer, anyway.

I can't debate, hold a point or retain an opinion to save my life... :D

I don't want to ban sexy, revealing clothing or all characters with next to nothing on. I'm just fed up with the imbalance, as I see it, in how the two sexes are portrayed.

That is a good way of putting it :)


Or we could give the player a choice - along with 'braid' or 'no-braid' we could have 'revealing dress' or 'not revealing' or something...

Someone please get onto CD and ask if we can ask Lara's opinion... :D lol

[Mangar The Dark]

LOL. :D

Trust me, I would never make Spielberg is a saint. ;) I see what you're saying but my experience is no one is going to ridicule Indy for sleeping with the same woman as his father. To me when someone high fives someone else's behaviour, they not laughing at, they're laughing with that person. It's a form of applause.

When I see Indy put into a skimpy jock-strap, one that's so small reviewers are wondering if he'll stay in it whilst running about, and if he now keeps a roll of double-sided sticky tape under his hat as standard, then I'll believe that male and female heros are being treated the same.

I don't want to ban sexy, revealing clothing or all characters with next to nothing on. I'm just fed up with the imbalance, as I see it, in how the two sexes are portrayed.

For me, when representations of women are nearly always half-dressed compared to the men, that says something about our society that is very similar to those one's that put women behind sheets. The syndrome is the same, the symptoms merely expressed differently.

I know not everyone agrees with me, but I hope they can see what I'm trying to say. :)

Susan, you raise a good point, and it reminds me of a conversation I recently had with a friend about how misguided the whole "girl power" attitude tends to be. So many times, we see women in skimpy, revealing outfits acting as if this gives them "girl power," making them stronger. It's as if they believe these revealing outfits are somehow defiant and thereby empowering, a kind of rebellion against the days when women were supposed to wear dresses down to their ankles and be very demure. Look at bands like Destiny's Child for example. All it really does, though, is enforce the notion that if a woman wants to be successful, she'd better be hot. I don't see how that's a sign of girl power at all. If anything, it's giving the power back to us guys-- if we think you look hot in a revealing outfit, then yeah, you can have success in life. If we don't think you're hot, then you won't succeed. Kind of a ridiculous way for things to be, and certainly flies in the face of the supposed idea behind "girl power."

[Psychopompador]

couple things...

someone ( i think Wraithstar) mentioned something about this being America in regards to being able to voice your opinion.. Yes you can voice your opinion.. but remember that THIS- this forum- is NOT America... this is the interent and many people on this site are from different countries where views on sexuality and displays of it are very different (whats interesting is that the US is the one country that is the most tight assed about it- in Europe nudity is on display in ads everywhere in public, and no one cares, and noone thinks the model in the ad is a skank) So those of us in America need to be a bit more compassionate to others opinions to. (something Americans need to work on a hell of a lot more anyway)

and another thing... when did anything below the nipple line become "skanky", and fully exposed legs and backs are not... it's just another part of a womans anatomy. I am just as attracted to a nice pair of legs as a nice set of tits. Why is a womans percieved promiscuity judged by the amount of breast she shows and not legs or back or arms... And when responding to this question- remember that America is the one of the few countriesin this world that finds nudity taboo, so dont base your reponse on how you were raised in your small town- but use some facts to prove that a woman in a dress like that is "sluttier" than a girl in a turtleneck.

[GoranAgar]

couple things...

someone ( i think Wraithstar) mentioned something about this being America in regards to being able to voice your opinion.. Yes you can voice your opinion.. but remember that THIS- this forum- is NOT America...
The standard answer for this very good point is: "Yeah, man, but teh server is in 'merica. So screw U." And I am betting good money that someone actually is going to say exactly that later in this thread. :D

And before we all forget: "Freedom of speech" basically means we can say everything our little brain can come up with, WE DO NOT HAVE TO! ;)

And please let us not go the America>Europe Europe>America My Side Your Side Your Side My Side road. It does not lead anywhere.

[WraithStar]

couple things...

someone ( i think Wraithstar) mentioned something about this being America in regards to being able to voice your opinion.. Yes you can voice your opinion.. but remember that THIS- this forum- is NOT America... this is the interent and many people on this site are from different countries where views on sexuality and displays of it are very different (whats interesting is that the US is the one country that is the most tight assed about it- in Europe nudity is on display in ads everywhere in public, and no one cares, and noone thinks the model in the ad is a skank) So those of us in America need to be a bit more compassionate to others opinions to. (something Americans need to work on a hell of a lot more anyway)

The America comment was in response to the accusation that me saying Lara should dress in more taste was the same thing as oppressing women in Muslim countries by making them wear burkas. I was merely saying that I have the right to express my opinion just as much as Crystal has the right to put whatever they want to in their game. Considering that Crystal is an American company, and I live in America too, it made sense to say that the same rights apply to both of us.

This point about the dress bothers me so much because, to be quite honest, I never saw most of those pictures of Lara that Core released because they didn't actually feature in the game. Having to watch Lara run around in that dress in order to win the game is another story entirely. If I don't want to look at the semi-nude images from Core, I don't have to. However, if I want to win Legend, I do have to watch Lara wearing that dress. That brings me around to this question: Out of the 10 hours of gameplay in Legend, how many of those will be spent having to stare at that ugly dress?

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

http://www.catagar.com/treasure/ValentineBirthday-thumb.jpg

Waaa ha ha ha ha!!!! :eek: :D Why didn't Spielberg/Ford do something like that in the movies?? Huh? Then EVERY girl (and some guys out there too ;) ) would go see Indiana Jones and BUY every DVD and every poster and think these have got to be the coolest movies ever right?? And keep BUYING every sequel that ever came out because Harrison is naked and/or using his Indy hat for "coverage"?
Um, no that's called "cheapening and exploiting a character for sex." Admittedly this strategy works for a while (Pam Anderson) but then you've seen it all, no more surprises left, so people move on.

use some facts to prove that a woman in a dress like that is "sluttier" than a girl in a turtleneck

INFORMAL POLL:

Which girl is sluttier? A or B

Girl A: http://eeplaza.com/gallery/zba/z5oua18.jpg
Girl B: http://cache.lionbrand.com/stores/lionbrand/pictures/kgs-turtlenecka.jpg

[midroth]

This one!


Girl C: http://noliberty.com/slut.jpg

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

LOL! that's a wicked p****y... cat :D

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

http://www.catagar.com/treasure/ValentineBirthday-thumb.jpg

Waaa ha ha ha ha!!!! Why didn't Spielberg/Ford do something like that in the movies?? Huh? Then EVERY girl (and some guys out there too ;) ) would go see Indiana Jones and BUY every DVD and every poster and think these have got to be the coolest movies ever right?? And keep BUYING every sequel that ever came out because Harrison is naked and/or using his Indy hat for "coverage"?
Um, no that's called "cheapening and exploiting a character for sex." Admittedly this strategy works for a while (Pam Anderson) but then you've seen it all, no more surprises left, so people move on.



INFORMAL POLL:

Which girl is sluttier? A or B

Girl A: http://eeplaza.com/gallery/zba/z5oua18.jpg
Girl B: http://cache.lionbrand.com/stores/lionbrand/pictures/kgs-turtlenecka.jpg

Firstly, I am glad you liked the picture. :) I think no one can resist a heart shaped box of chocolates on Valantine's Day. ;) (The second two Indys are not mine. ;) )

But as to your question of the "sluttiness" of a female based on her clothing.... Um, get real, ok? You have no idea AT ALL what kind of person is under the clothes. Ever. It's all about personality. BUT that does not negate the disgusting use of the word slut.

As Susan rightly pointed out, the disparity between a woman's sexual (or otherwise) freedom as seen by the society that uses the word "slut" and the same freedom of her male counterpart is drastic and revolting. :rolleyes:

Any human should be able to have the sort of life that pleases them (as long, of course, that they harm no others) without the morality, thought and fashion police on their backs.

[Xcom]

I don't want to ban sexy, revealing clothing or all characters with next to nothing on. I'm just fed up with the imbalance, as I see it, in how the two sexes are portrayed.

For me, when representations of women are nearly always half-dressed compared to the men.....


Just as the representation of men nearly always being muscle studs on steroids with square jaws. There is balance alright. ;)

These are certain artistic stereotypes which I believe were present in comic books and were carried over to games.

[TheLegend]

D: This one!

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f88/999legend/turtleneck.jpg

LOL I can't stop laughing at that slutty cat!
And why should there be an exact balance between the amount of flesh shown in games between men and women? If there was a male enemy in this game wearing hot pants or a dress I don't think many people would be happy. :) Lara is supposed to be sexy, so she whips out a leg or two... and so she should!

[WraithStar]

Just as the representation of men nearly always being muscle studs on steroids with square jaws. There is balance alright. ;)

These are certain artistic stereotypes which I believe were present in comic books and were carried over to games.

Oh, come on now. Crystal completely ignored the male stereotype when creating a skeletal, jawless male character and that turned out extremely well. Why would they take a very promising female character and all of sudden decide to take the stereotype to the extreme with her clothing? The only other games in which I've seen a dress like that were rated M for mature. Is Legend going to be rated M? That seems foolish because that would cut out a large portion of their fanbase.


And why should there be an exact balance between the amount of flesh shown in games between men and women? If there was a male enemy in this game wearing hot pants or a dress I don't think many people would be happy. :) Lara is supposed to be sexy, so she whips out a leg or two... and so she should!

I'm not saying that men and women should wear the exact same clothing in games. I *would* be extremely repulsed by a male character running around in hot pants or that dress, but that's beside the point. Lara *is* supposed to be sexy, not sleazy. That dress is far too revealing to be sexy. It might look better if she was wearing her tanktop under it, but as it is right now, she's popping out of it and it looks sick.


But as to your question of the "sluttiness" of a female based on her clothing.... Um, get real, ok? You have no idea AT ALL what kind of person is under the clothes. Ever. It's all about personality. BUT that does not negate the disgusting use of the word slut.

A woman's personality determines what clothes she wears, unless someone else is dressing her. If she has a problem with being viewed as a slut, she shouldn't advertise herself as such. Mind you, I'm not saying that women shouldn't dress that way. If a woman does dress that way, however, she should be honest with herself about the image she is projecting.

[TRaiderGurl]

honestly i really only see one person who is really that upset over a cocktail dress. The rest of us thinks its hot and sexy cause....ITS A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER! (who enjoys being sexy).

[GoranAgar]

A woman's personality determines what clothes she wears, unless someone else is dressing her. If she has a problem with being viewed as a slut, she shouldn't advertise herself as such. Mind you, I'm not saying that women shouldn't dress that way. If a woman does dress that way, however, she should be honest with herself about the image she is projecting.
You might want to rethink this, this makes you sound like you are one of those "She was asking for it, she dressed that way"-types. http://www.eidosforum.de/images/smilies/addon/nono.gif

And everybody stop using derogatory words like "slut", "skank" and such to discribe other people right now! If you can not make your point without those "expressions" I'd say that point is not worth making at all. Freedom of speech is for public places and your own home, not private forums like ours!

[WraithStar]

You might want to rethink this, this makes you sound like you are one of those "She was asking for it, she dressed that way"-types. http://www.eidosforum.de/images/smilies/addon/nono.gif

Theoretically everyone has a right to dress however they want to. Realistically, we need to consider consequences for our actions before we actually choose to act in a certain way. I would NEVER say that someone deserves to be attacked. Ever. No one deserves that. I would also never dress in a certain way because I realize that, although I have the right to dress that way, people will assume that my clothing reflects my attitude. I don't want people viewing me that way, so I will never wear overly-revealing clothes in public. I think that claiming that a person's clothing has nothing to do with his or her personality is disingenuous and dishonest. That was the point that I was trying to address. I apologize for using certain terms. Now that I am aware they are off-limits, I will not use them again.

[GoranAgar]

But couldn't it be that there is just something wrong with "people's" views and assumptions then? ;)

[WraithStar]

But couldn't it be that there is just something wrong with "people's" views and assumptions then? ;)

I think that each piece of clothing is specifically designed to produce a certain reaction in most people. When someone designs a shirt, for instance, they are intending for people to see it and think, "Ooh, that's classy," or, "That's nice and casual," etc. I think that a person should be fully aware of what reaction a piece of clothing is intended to get when choosing to wear that clothing. If the person still wants to wear the clothing, then fine, as long as they are honest about how they look to most people and they are comfortable with the image they are giving themselves. Understanding what image I project, for instance, will help me to gauge how people are likely to view me and, if I don't like what they see, I can easily change it to something that will produce an acceptable reaction. Clothing that is worn in public has the purpose of affecting how the public sees the person, so it is very important to be honest about what the public will think of a particular outfit before choosing to wear that outfit. In private, of course, I'll never see it so I don't care:p

[midroth]

Coke, Goran?

[GoranAgar]

Good idea.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Coca-Cola_Glas_mit_Eis.jpg/300px-Coca-Cola_Glas_mit_Eis.jpg

[WraithStar]

I think I'll have a Pepsi instead.

http://www.pepsi.com/pepsi_brands/all_brands/images/spot_pepsi.jpg

(I can't seem to agree on anything today, can I?:p)

[midroth]

All rrrrrrrrrrrright guys! http://www.nicholsoncartoons.com.au/cartoons/new/2004-10-19%20Woolies%20bids%20up%20ALH%20226233.JPG

[TheLegend]

This debate is getting wayyy off track! These forums are centered around Tombraider Legend, not ethical or moral debates about clothing or personality. People shouldn't try to justify their arguments with comments like 'well, when I go out on a saturday night' or 'I saw a woman in the street who looked well skank' (sorry, banned word!), because most of the people in this forum want to hear views about the game, not the female form as a sanctuary or whatever else Germaine Greer is spewing out. Doncha think that views should be centered around how the character of Lara Croft is very high profile, and so how the world views her is very important, rather than how your neighbour views you when you wear something? It's getting too personal to counteract arguments. So there. :)

[Psychopompador]

hopefully none of the other digital rendered NPC's in this video game on that level will think badly of Lara becasue of her dress... it would be horrible if one of them had lurid thoughts about her... then a few extra pixels appeared below their waste.

I can see the interactive scene now...

"Press [X] to fight off unwanted advances"

[ShadowOfOblivion]

This debate is getting wayyy off track! These forums are centered around Tombraider Legend, not ethical or moral debates about clothing or personality. People shouldn't try to justify their arguments with comments like 'well, when I go out on a saturday night' or 'I saw a woman in the street who looked well skank' (sorry, banned word!), because most of the people in this forum want to hear views about the game, not the female form as a sanctuary or whatever else Germaine Greer is spewing out. Doncha think that views should be centered around how the character of Lara Croft is very high profile, and so how the world views her is very important, rather than how your neighbour views you when you wear something? It's getting too personal to counteract arguments. So there. :)

Exactly. This is about how they're portraying Lara Croft..not about how you might be viewed wearing a shirt like that.

Thanks thelegend.

And furthermore, based on that A or B pic I'd certainly say A. Sorry.

[Treeble]

I think that each piece of clothing is specifically designed to produce a certain reaction in most people. When someone designs a shirt, for instance, they are intending for people to see it and think, "Ooh, that's classy," or, "That's nice and casual," etc. I think that a person should be fully aware of what reaction a piece of clothing is intended to get when choosing to wear that clothing. If the person still wants to wear the clothing, then fine, as long as they are honest about how they look to most people and they are comfortable with the image they are giving themselves. Understanding what image I project, for instance, will help me to gauge how people are likely to view me and, if I don't like what they see, I can easily change it to something that will produce an acceptable reaction. Clothing that is worn in public has the purpose of affecting how the public sees the person, so it is very important to be honest about what the public will think of a particular outfit before choosing to wear that outfit. In private, of course, I'll never see it so I don't care:p


All this brings us to a point. A quote I read on a wall, a long, long time ago.


"I know what's wrong with this world - the other people."

Seriously, if you stop doing things you like/feel like doing because of what others will think of you, you might as well commit suicide for once. I've been like that in the past, not that long ago actually, and now I just don't care. I live my life how I want to, I don't like to be one to be told about how I should be. :rolleyes:

I respect my parents opinions - doesn't mean I accept and do everything as they want me to, though. The rest of the world can swallow their words back to where they should have never been released from.

[midroth]

Is the word, you are looking for, maybe "behavior", respect(able)?

I just ask!

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

Sorry, I hadn't realized we were using the word 'slutty' two different ways:

I mean it as "skanky-looking" but you interpret it as "a skanky-acting (promiscuous) person". So in my informal poll, the "skankier-looking" girl is unquestionably Girl A but who knows which one is ACTUALLY more promiscuous? Maybe Girl B likes to do lots of... things... with lots of... people... ;)

Aha -- well we can never know that for certain by looking at a picture. But the fact is that people make assumptions by the way others dress. A dress like Lara's simply does not convey thoughts like "classy", "aristocrat", "wealth", "multi-lingual", "cultured" -- but contradicts this in every way.
If you look at Girl A in my post above, the first thought that comes to mind is not "multi-billionaire heiress" or "devoutly religious" but something along the lines of "low-class", "exotic dancer", "wild" or "provocative". I also assume she's a nice person and maybe funny and would be a great person to go to a nightclub with.

I just don't agree Lara should be presented this way unless she begins the level in a proper cocktail dress but then the room comes under attack and she quickly decides to rip open the sides of her elegant gown to attach holsters to her legs and shoot the burglars/ defend herself...
...or if she is sneaking into a sleazy lounge in which all the waitresses must dress identically and she is using one of their outfits as a subterfuge...

But the thought that an aristocrat, who could buy gowns from the world's top designers, would CHOOSE a dress like that is laughable, completely out of character IMHO

[WraithStar]

I just don't agree Lara should be presented this way unless she begins the level in a proper cocktail dress but then the room comes under attack and she quickly decides to rip open the sides of her elegant gown to attach holsters to her legs and shoot the burglars/ defend herself...
...or if she is sneaking into a sleazy lounge in which all the waitresses must dress identically and she is using one of their outfits as a subterfuge...

But the thought that an aristocrat, who could buy gowns from the world's top designers, would CHOOSE a dress like that is laughable, completely out of character IMHO

I think that the official contrivance is that Lara is sneaking into a sleazy Yakuza-run party to find out who killed her mother. As someone said earlier, they can construct a scenario for *any* outfit they want to. That doesn't make the outfit any less ugly, repulsive or inappropriate. I think that it would make a lot more sense from a logical standpoint if Lara wore a dress that was long enough to conceal her shorts beneath it and would look good with the tank top. That way once she starts fighting, she can just take the dress off and have her standard outfit already on. That would have been cool instead of having to actually fight wearing that thing.

[TheLegend]

hopefully none of the other digital rendered NPC's in this video game on that level will think badly of Lara becasue of her dress... it would be horrible if one of them had lurid thoughts about her... then a few extra pixels appeared below their waste.

I can see the interactive scene now...

"Press [X] to fight off unwanted advances"

LOL yeah it would be so funny to have guards chase Lara around Tokyo with boxes of chocolates and roses!
I think Zip should tease Lara for wearing something feminine she usually would hate, and the pre-level cutscene showing Lara uncomfortably trying to pull it down! I did some fan-art to try to win over the dress-haters:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f88/999legend/modifiedwithbackground.png

Enjoy! :)

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

As someone said earlier, they can construct a scenario for *any* outfit they want to. That doesn't make the outfit any less ugly, repulsive or inappropriate.

Very true. i'm just hoping against hope that there is some truly desperate reason, not just to 'fit in' at a yakuza party but actually to disguise herself as a waitress or something.

The sad/scary thing to me is why her legs are showing at all, because for one could they have made the booty shorts she is in most of the time ANY SHORTER?? So if for one level her legs are covered up by a dress, this is a nice change of scenery. Like the wetsuit in TR2 -- it covered her legs more than usual but it was sexy! And then you see her in shorts again.

If anything this reminds me of the 'running around in snow with a heavy jacket and SHORTS' which was so inappropriate BRRRRRR and silly.... Running around in a skimpy cocktail dress with leg slits is equally inappropriate

[Sophia Leigh]

Solange, thanks for posting those pics of Indiana, they were indeed funny :D

Midroth, I've said it before, you really do have a wicked sense of humour, that cat picture is something else :eek: http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/028.gif

Mr & Mrs Agar, lay off the jeans! :D

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

Mr & Mrs Agar, lay off the jeans! :D

;) Some of my best friends wear jeans. I think no less of them for it. :D

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

It is my observation that Lara Croft has been written as a character who does not take into account what other people think, otherwise she wouldn't be out there raiding tombs. Therefore, the dress is completely in character. Understanding what image I project, for instance, will help me to gauge how people are likely to view me and, if I don't like what they see, I can easily change it to something that will produce an acceptable reaction.
Why? Why bow to their narrow prejudices at all? Why care that some minds can't be kind and open enough to give you the benefit of the doubt? Do those people really deserve your worry? They are bound by their own problems accepting others, but that's not your problem. You mentioned honesty, so why is it that being honest to yourself about how you feel only works if you must use others to make sure you are "ok" and still within their norm or comfort level? I believe we will never see eye to eye, because I find such ideas of prejudgement "ugly, repulsive [and] inappropriate." I keep hoping we have evolved past that.

I say it's better to walk your own road than to be led down the wrong one by someone (or many) else.

"Judge me by my size, do you?"
http://www.senseichristopher.com/DDphotos/CriticalKobold/Yoda.jpg



Xxx_Lara_xxX, from Dictionary.com. Skank. noun: 1. A rhythmic dance performed to reggae or ska music, characterized by bending forward, raising the knees, and extending the hands.
2. Disgusting or vulgar matter; filth. 3. One who is digustingly foul or filthy and often considered sexually promiscuous. Used especially of a woman or girl. Unless you mean the dance, it is completely cruel and unjust and has no business being directed at Lara or anyone else here. Not even pictures of women you have never met. Using it is definitely a slam, and you have been warned. Change your tone please.

[jaycw2309]

I really cannot believe this discussion/debate/argument/rant has gone on for SO long.

in NO way shape or form is the outfit she is wearing SLUTTY, shes dressing up for an occasion in game. She looks elegant and acts elegant..

This is a forum for discussions about Lara and Tomb Raider, not about ethical dressing behaviour or peoples personal opinion on what a slut is..

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

I really cannot believe this discussion/debate/argument/rant has gone on for SO long.

in NO way shape or form is the outfit she is wearing SLUTTY, shes dressing up for an occasion in game. She looks elegant and acts elegant..

This is a forum for discussions about Lara and Tomb Raider, not about ethical dressing behaviour or peoples personal opinion on what a slut is..

I think you can gauge a character's appeal by how much people take what they do/say/wear to heart.

Lara Croft is loved by many many fans, and this outpouring of debate over her image only shows she is still the icon she ever was. We all care about her, and our personal image of who she is.

This game is going to be great! :D

[=Shrensh=]

Lara's outfits don't offend me (although when I first saw her Legend outfit I thought "Man, those are tiny shorts!") I would prefer if her outfits weren't quite so tiny, but meh, whatever, it could have been far worse. People referring to her as "slutty" and "skanky" does. I would never use those words to refer to her. Like Catsuit said, people love Lara and take the stuff that happens to her very personally (I know I do), and it does show how well-loved Lara still is that this debate has gone on for so long and has been so fierce.

And all this debate on Lara's character is pointless. Lara's character is whatever CD wants it to be (which is something I have to get used to :rolleyes: They've changed the game quite a lot) As long as her clothes don't get any smaller I'll be able to ignore it and play the game.

[Xcom]

Oh, come on now. Crystal completely ignored the male stereotype when creating a skeletal, jawless male character and that turned out extremely well. Why would they take a very promising female character and all of sudden decide to take the stereotype to the extreme with her clothing?

I didn't say it's impossible to ignore a stereotype, it's just that Lara's looks have become a stereotype of their own. She isn't a "promising female character", she's an established icon in videogame history. You can't just turn 180 degrees and make a boring librarian out of her. Oh, and I honestly think you need to re-evaluate your definition of "extreme". ;)

The only other games in which I've seen a dress like that were rated M for mature. Is Legend going to be rated M? That seems foolish because that would cut out a large portion of their fanbase.


The ratings get determined based on a combination of criteria (language, violence, drugs, nudity, sexual themes, etc). It's not like if she has this dress, it will get M straight away. It doesn't work this way.

As someone said earlier, they can construct a scenario for *any* outfit they want to. That doesn't make the outfit any less ugly, repulsive or inappropriate.

And as someone also said earlier, you can't present your personal view as a fact. Regardless of whatever dress/clothes Lara wears, there will be people who won't like it, who may find it ugly and repulsive. Devs can't make _everyone_ happy.

[WraithStar]

It is my observation that Lara Croft has been written as a character who does not take into account what other people think, otherwise she wouldn't be out there raiding tombs. Therefore, the dress is completely in character.
Why? Why bow to their narrow prejudices at all? Why care that some minds can't be kind and open enough to give you the benefit of the doubt? Do those people really deserve your worry? They are bound by their own problems accepting others, but that's not your problem. You mentioned honesty, so why is it that being honest to yourself about how you feel only works if you must use others to make sure you are "ok" and still within their norm or comfort level? I believe we will never see eye to eye, because I find such ideas of prejudgement "ugly, repulsive [and] inappropriate." I keep hoping we have evolved past that.

I say it's better to walk your own road than to be led down the wrong one by someone (or many) else.

Honestly, assuming the outfits are weather appropriate, it feels exactly the same to me to wear all black versus bright colors, or something revealing versus something more reserved. The only difference in how an outfit feels is in how other people react to that outfit. I do whatever I want to do, but that doesn't mean I should totally ignore how other people will respond to my choices. On the contrary. Before doing anything, one should consider all of the consequences. In the case of clothing, one of the consequences is that people will see it and react to it. If I know how people will react and I want to wear it anyway, then fine, I will. I think that if someone truly doesn't consider how other people will react to her outfit, or if she guesses wrong about how they will react, then she's going to have problems understanding what's going on when people interact with her. Pretending that it's a perfect world and nobody thinks anything even mildly offensive can only lead to trouble because that view is sadly inaccurate. Acknowledging how what you are doing will be viewed and asking yourself if you accept that consequence, however, is a good thing to do.

Back on topic, I was talking to one of my friends yesterday and I mentioned to him that I was annoyed about this dress ruining Lara's image and making her look sleazy. He just said, "What image? That *is* how Lara is." I guess I was wrong all along for thinking that Lara had a shred of dignity left to her name.

[susan]

Just as the representation of men nearly always being muscle studs on steroids with square jaws. There is balance alright. ;)


Men represented as muscular and with square jaws = women being dressed in skimpy clothing?

Not to me it isn't.

Susan, you raise a good point ... Cheers Mangar. :)

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

Acknowledging how what you are doing will be viewed and asking yourself if you accept that consequence, however, is a good thing to do.I always accept the consequences of my actions. Since I try not to care what other people think of me, it doesn't occur to me to even wonder about it. I go about my business as I see fit. I expect others to mind their own, too. :)
Back on topic, I was talking to one of my friends yesterday and I mentioned to him that I was annoyed about this dress ruining Lara's image and making her look sleazy. He just said, "What image? That *is* how Lara is." I guess I was wrong all along for thinking that Lara had a shred of dignity left to her name.You can't please all the people all the time, and this is a prime example. No friends of mine, for instance, think that way about Lara Croft. :)
I know not everyone agrees with me, but I hope they can see what I'm trying to say. :) I do. :)

[danny.rex]

Ok so here is the deal
some people like it, some people don't
some people think is sexy, some think is trashy
some people say is great for Lara, some say is totally unlara

Thats the way is going to be, some people might not like the blue jumper and grey pants suit, some people might not like bullet-time, some people might not like the ponytail instead of the braid

So you don't like, it'll be only in 1 level of the game, and you could change it for one of the unlockable costumes we have heard of

Some outfits are revealing, others not:
- The main outfit has quite reveling booty shorts, but small cleavage
- The blue jumper and grey pants is not reveling at all
- The "classic" tomb raider outfit doesn't have a cleavage, is like the one in TR1
- The catsuit is not revealing as well

You can expect the game to be based only in what you like, there are many Lara fans around the world that have very diverse tastes

You hate Lara been a sex symbol, I hate when Lara is compared to Indiana Jones and that what you're doing.
I prefer a silly joke about her breast than calling her a female indiana jones

[CatSuit&Ponytail]

Quite a tidy summation, danny.rex. :)

[ShadowOfOblivion]

I really cannot believe this discussion/debate/argument/rant has gone on for SO long.

in NO way shape or form is the outfit she is wearing SLUTTY, shes dressing up for an occasion in game. She looks elegant and acts elegant..

This is a forum for discussions about Lara and Tomb Raider, not about ethical dressing behaviour or peoples personal opinion on what a slut is..

Look, I dont want to get banned so this will be my last debating post, but this entire thread has been about Lara and Tomb Raider and how the fans feel about the new dress.

The fans are who buy Tomb Raider and what makes the game as popular as it is, so shouldn't you be taking their discomfort to heart rather then..get mad at them for thinking Lara's new dress is TOO revealing?

You should really review over some of the less 'insulting' posts of this thread however as they bring up some very valid points.

But like I said...I respect you and the work that you do so *bows* good day sir.

[Ruum Taedor]

At last, the storm is passing. Family arguments can be entertaining, if they're not too long, or too serious.

To ShadowOfOblivion, I say good closing. :thumbsup:

Seems to me that plenty has been said. Looks like we're going to need a new provocative topic. May I suggest religion or politics? ;)

[WraithStar]

So you don't like, it'll be only in 1 level of the game, and you could change it for one of the unlockable costumes we have heard of


Seriously? I *can* change it to something else? That might be alright then. I was working under the assumption that I would *have* to play in that dress for several hours out of a 10 hour game, and that was really troubling me.

Although, now that I think about it, if I didn't know the dress was in the game, I'd probably just come across it and be like, "What the hell?" and then not pay any attention to it. What really seems to annoy me is the fact that they have two advertising campaigns going on, one saying "We're returning Lady Croft to her roots and we've got Toby Gard, who is angry about how Lara has been oversexualized in the past," and the other campaign saying, "Holy hell, look how hot Lara is in this revealing outfit!" I think that they should pick one or the other. The two don't go well together.

Seems to me that plenty has been said. Looks like we're going to need a new provocative topic. May I suggest religion or politics? ;)

Don't get me started;)

[shurik]

I think yall are being ridiculous. People wear stuff like that everyday. I think she looks hot. Why is she a whore all of a sudden? Cause she's wearing a low cut dress thats in style in hollywood these days? She has ALWAYS had the sexy image...get over it.

Watch out, comic lara is showing some thong and big boobs
http://www.comic.eck24.de/images/TOMBRAIDER0207.jpg
I agree, let's not forget who Lara realy is. She's not just a tomb raider and period, she's simply more than just that. She had a great, athletic, sexy fugure that has been showing off for like what 14 years. In other simple words of saying it, she has become a LEGEND of beauty. Lara been a female character for a long time compare to some other games. Don't get me wrong by saying, so from time she's suppose to loose a bit of a cloth everytime and at the end run in naked. No, I'm just saying it changes a little through the games and in the comics, simply becoming a Legend as we can see already in this version. Lara Croft is a female character not some Tom Croft or something. She is the real legend of BEAUTY, it just has to be shown through time.
I don't even know why would someone ask this question anyway. And I agree, if you don't like that there should be plenty other costumes to go with.

[Psychopompador]

...She had a great, athletic, sexy fugure that has been showing off for like what 14 years...

actually... 10 years this year

[LaraAngelOfDarkness]

Personally I don't see what is wrong with the dress. It looks fine when you look at it from ALL angles, not just from under her breasts(obviously the magazine did this on purpose). Many say the dress didn't show much clevage as is the actual 3d model, well they are wrong. Also, the dress certainly does NOT go all the way down to her belly button like some claim(it looks exactly like the concept art):

http://www.tombraidercentral.net/images/concept15.jpg

The dress was revealed months ago, and people choose NOW to complain. I can see why some people think the dress is too "sexual" for Lara, but come on, its Lara and she always looks great.

[Joshorty]

I know...how about let's chill about this one and leave this thread alone for a while...unless, it's nothin' againts the dress and stuff - -I mean, the game's not even out yet -- calm!

[danny.rex]

Seriously? I *can* change it to something else? That might be alright then.

We have heard about unlocking costumes and that it will more than 20,
I guess you can change them for playing in the levels, but I don't know if you have to complete the whole game first for changing them

anyway is just 1 level, and if you don't like the clevage just turn the camera always behind Lara

[WraithStar]

We have heard about unlocking costumes and that it will more than 20,
I guess you can change them for playing in the levels, but I don't know if you have to complete the whole game first for changing them

anyway is just 1 level, and if you don't like the clevage just turn the camera always behind Lara

Good suggestion about the camera. What worries me, though, is that I heard the game only has about 8 levels, so if the dress is in an entire level, that's a large portion of the game.


Personally I don't see what is wrong with the dress. It looks fine when you look at it from ALL angles, not just from under her breasts(obviously the magazine did this on purpose). Many say the dress didn't show much clevage as is the actual 3d model, well they are wrong. Also, the dress certainly does NOT go all the way down to her belly button like some claim(it looks exactly like the concept art)

I've only seen the one image of the dress that's on the first page of this thread, and I only saw it in the last week or two. I was exaggerating a bit about the bellybutton, but my point was that her entire cleavage is exposed and it doesn't look like she has any...support, for lack of a better word, so I think it's ridiculous to fight in something like that. In all of the actual games to date, Lara's never worn anything quite that revealing and I don't think it belongs in the next game, either. The concept art looks a little different, by the way. Is that supposed to be a necklace she's wearing? In the concept art it looks like part of her dress, but in the screenshot it looks like she has a wire around her neck:confused:

[LaraAngelOfDarkness]

Good suggestion about the camera. What worries me, though, is that I heard the game only has about 8 levels, so if the dress is in an entire level, that's a large portion of the game.




I've only seen the one image of the dress that's on the first page of this thread, and I only saw it in the last week or two. I was exaggerating a bit about the bellybutton, but my point was that her entire cleavage is exposed and it doesn't look like she has any...support, for lack of a better word, so I think it's ridiculous to fight in something like that. In all of the actual games to date, Lara's never worn anything quite that revealing and I don't think it belongs in the next game, either. The concept art looks a little different, by the way. Is that supposed to be a necklace she's wearing? In the concept art it looks like part of her dress, but in the screenshot it looks like she has a wire around her neck:confused:


That extra wire might be her support. :D

Seriously though, I can see where you are coming from. Alot of people are worried that Lara will be dragged down into the dirt again because of this outfit or that its just to make Lara sexy. Who knows, though I do think we should wait for the game before we make judgements.

Anyways, I don't think Lara will wear the dress the entire level, because Lara appears to wear that red and black catsuit in Tokyo as well.

[WraithStar]

That extra wire might be her support. :D In that case, all I have to say is ouch, that must hurt:p

Seriously though, I can see where you are coming from. Alot of people are worried that Lara will be dragged down into the dirt again because of this outfit or that its just to make Lara sexy. Who knows, though I do think we should wait for the game before we make judgements.

I think that the only reason they would have to release screenshots of Lara in that outfit, especially in the pose in the picture I saw, is to use Lara's body as an advertisement for the game. I'm also disappointed about the context they've given for making Lara wear that dress. The idea that the main character has to dress half-naked in order to gain access to information, a location, or a key item is so cliche and overdone that I'm disappointed they would resort to that. If their story is a lot more complicated, then again I say they shouldn't have released that picture because, in so doing, they had to explain it and the explanation makes the story sound like it's following a format that's used way too often.

Anyways, I don't think Lara will wear the dress the entire level, because Lara appears to wear that red and black catsuit in Tokyo as well.

Hmmm...I haven't seen the catsuit. I've only seen the standard outfit, the sweater, and a glimpse of what looked like a wetsuit in one of the videos. Oh, and the dress:p

[SasaPisa]

Men represented as muscular and with square jaws = women being dressed in skimpy clothing?

Not to me it isn't.

Cheers Mangar. :)


They are equivocal comparisons. Both assume an ideal body image. Perhaps you don't see that because, assuming by your name, you are a woman.

There is a lot of pressure for men to try and comform to the "muscular athlete" body stereotype as the ideal sexual aesthetic for the male form. Unfortunatly for many, it's impossible. This has lead to a ballooning among young men of the same types of emotional and eating disorders traditionally associated with women.

Games, movies, magazines, ect...perpetuate this unrealistic standard with little regard for this growing trend.

Personally, in any given society there are standards of an aesthetic ideal. More power to the men and women who can meet it. If you cannot thats just the way it is then hmm? Life isn't fair after all.

In truth, far more people complain about their weight and health than work hard to do much about it. With a great majority of american (and increasingly europeans) overweight one has to wonder if the pc reaction against physical stereotypes is simply defensiveness on the part of the McGeneration.

I have little issue with the sexuality on display in TR. What irks me is the sheer ugliness of the dress on the first page. Granted I haven't seen the bottom half yet but that top is heinous. It looks like a cross between an evening dress and wrestling tights.

[=Shrensh=]

I think that perhaps a bit of the frustration in this thread comes from how non-Tomb Raider fans see Tomb Raider fans as only playing the game because of Lara's boobies. I myself don't mind at all when people critisize Tomb Raider for legitimate reasons, even if I don't agree with them. People have different tastes and are entitled to their own opinions. The only time I get offended and angry is when people say "Tomb Raider is only popular because people like to stare at Lara's titties". I am a heterosexual female and that is *not* why I love Tomb Raider. People are worried that CD are going to trade only on Lara's good looks, much the way Core & Eidos did in the past, or that people are going to see it that way.

(I rather like the dress... it's grown on me a bit :p )

[susan]

They are equivocal comparisons. Both assume an ideal body image. Perhaps you don't see that because, assuming by your name, you are a woman.

There is a lot of pressure for men to try and comform to the "muscular athlete" body stereotype as the ideal sexual aesthetic for the male form. Unfortunatly for many, it's impossible. This has lead to a ballooning among young men of the same types of emotional and eating disorders traditionally associated with women.Women are given "ideal sexual aesthetics" too, such as being presented with images of women that are thin, have big breasts, and so on.

Relative levels of clothing is in addition to the idealised body characteristics presented for both sexes. ... wonder if the pc reaction against physical stereotypes is simply defensiveness on the part of the McGeneration.How much a woman is wearing is in addition to those physical stereotypes. Any women, whatever her body shape or size, can dress in revealing clothes. Her clothes are not her body. That's why it's not the same. To me anyway.

Are you really trying to say that the ideal physical stereotype (or body image) for women is wearing revealing clothing?

I do. :) Thanks. :)

[jaycw2309]

Really cannot believe this topic is still raging on, its MORE talked about then the release date for the game, which kinda shows its decended beyond being actually about lara.. you could put ANYONE into this situation and this conversation would go on and on and on.

its going in circles, peoples differing views will not be resolved as obviously everyone is entitled to their own views..

[GoranAgar]

But at least in a somewhat civilized manner. You do not get that everywhere. :D

[Acceber]

its MORE talked about then the release date for the game,

I am not talking about the release date for the game in case it gets changed. No tempting fate for me. :D *raises umbrella indoors*

[ShadowOfOblivion]

Really cannot believe this topic is still raging on, its MORE talked about then the release date for the game, which kinda shows its decended beyond being actually about lara.. you could put ANYONE into this situation and this conversation would go on and on and on.

its going in circles, peoples differing views will not be resolved as obviously everyone is entitled to their own views..

Well you're a moderator? If you feel the topic no longer contributes to the forums and that it has served it's purpose you not only have the power to close it but delete it as well.

I'm sorry..it's just you seem to be getting mad at us for expressing our views, when you've had the power to close it all this time. Her dress is obviously a strong issue if I haven't posted in here for over a day, said it was over..and it's still going on.

But like I said, I'm surprised this thread hasn't been closed by now if it was such a bother.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

The reason this has gone on for 9+ pages is because A LOT of people LOVE Lara. (myself included)

We LOVE her and as a woman I can IDENTIFY with her. There are people who love the idea of Lara so much that in college they pursue archeology, travel to China or learn about British culture just because we want to be more like her.

She is like art with a million interpretations. Some people interpret her as an exquisitely well-mannered aristocrat with a daring side, others see her as someone who has cast off her former 'upper crust' identity almost completely.

Others might see her as a quite unpleasant parody of 'colonial Britain' --rich people willing to kill natives and steal precious treasures from poor countries (the diamond of India comes to mind)

Some of us may come from a wealthy background and see Lara as a reflection of a part of us that wants to escape it all and dress however we want and shoot people and be COMPLETELY UNINHIBITED.

Others may come from a wealthy background and feel that Lara can kill and maim in SELF-DEFENSE, but can never forget WHAT she is and therefore would not wear such a dress under any circumstances.

To close this thread would be a shame, unlike some other heavily censored forums, Eidos SHOULD hear this DEBATE because we are debating WHO LARA IS.

[WraithStar]

The reason this has gone on for 9+ pages is because A LOT of people LOVE Lara. (myself included)

We LOVE her and as a woman I can IDENTIFY with her. There are people who love the idea of Lara so much that in college they pursue archeology, travel to China or learn about British culture just because we want to be more like her.

She is like art with a million interpretations. Some people interpret her as an exquisitely well-mannered aristocrat with a daring side, others see her as someone who has cast off her former 'upper crust' identity almost completely.

Others might see her as a quite unpleasant parody of 'colonial Britain' --rich people willing to kill natives and steal precious treasures from poor countries (the diamond of India comes to mind)

Some of us may come from a wealthy background and see Lara as a reflection of a part of us that wants to escape it all and dress however we want and shoot people and be COMPLETELY UNINHIBITED.

Others may come from a wealthy background and feel that Lara can kill and maim in SELF-DEFENSE, but can never forget WHAT she is and therefore would not wear such a dress under any circumstances.

To close this thread would be a shame, unlike some other heavily censored forums, Eidos SHOULD hear this DEBATE because we are debating WHO LARA IS.

Very well said. I'm only debating this because I like Lara so much, and I respect Crystal and expect for them to live up to a high standard in both the quality of the game and in how they portray a character I've known for years.

[Joshorty]

I'd hate to say that if anyone makes a nude patch for this game...:mad: ...it just kills!!...you guys know abut the infamous Lara Naked Trampoline Party right? it's an actual game that's rated AO (Adults Only - don't have to ask why)...I was so disappointed to see that game...some company I guess got permission to do so...she basically jumps around trampolines and...aiya I don't know...Lara's NOT like THAT:mad:

[jaycw2309]

Well you're a moderator? If you feel the topic no longer contributes to the forums and that it has served it's purpose you not only have the power to close it but delete it as well.

I'm sorry..it's just you seem to be getting mad at us for expressing our views, when you've had the power to close it all this time. Her dress is obviously a strong issue if I haven't posted in here for over a day, said it was over..and it's still going on.

But like I said, I'm surprised this thread hasn't been closed by now if it was such a bother.

it aint a bother, just i find it fascinating that its still going on, even tho it has become a circular conversation :)

[ShadowOfOblivion]

I'd hate to say that if anyone makes a nude patch for this game...:mad: ...it just kills!!...you guys know abut the infamous Lara Naked Trampoline Party right? it's an actual game that's rated AO (Adults Only - don't have to ask why)...I was so disappointed to see that game...some company I guess got permission to do so...she basically jumps around trampolines and...aiya I don't know...Lara's NOT like THAT:mad:

LOL, WHAT?! I cannot believe this :|.

And sorry for the misunderstanding Jay.

[=Shrensh=]

The Naked Trampoline Party isn't real. It was an April Fool's joke ;)

[GoranAgar]

But at least [it is discussed] in a somewhat civilized manner. You do not get that everywhere. :D
But like I said, I'm surprised this thread hasn't been closed by now if it was such a bother.
That should have given it away. ;)

On the other hand, talk about the mentioned patch will get this thread closed because as a side effect it uninstalls our sense of humour. :) I just thought I should point this out. :)

[ShadowOfOblivion]

That should have given it away. ;)

On the other hand, talk about the mentioned patch will get this thread closed because as a side effect it uninstalls our sense of humour. :) I just thought I should point this out. :)

Yeah lets not look back on that dark area in Lara's history shall we? :D

[Joshorty]

The Naked Trampoline Party isn't real. It was an April Fool's joke ;)

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

well it wasn't funy -_-.... it was stupid in fact...I'm glad it ins't real 'cause then it'd be whole disappointment...it's even on www.cheatcc.com!! GRRRRR:mad: :mad:

[WraithStar]

Whatever it was, I don't know anything about it and I don't want to know anything about it. In this case, I'd say ignorance is bliss.

Back on topic, this discussion is indeed about *who* Lara is more than what she's wearing. I view Lara as being elegant with nerves of steel. She's not manipulative. She is very attractive, but in the previous games she doesn't use that to get what she wants. In fact, when she's interacting with other characters, they are always paying attention to what she is saying or where she is pointing her pistols; they don't even seem to notice her body. Lara is obviously comfortable with her figure, but she relies upon her intelligence and her athletic abilities. That's what I like and respect about Lara and I'm extremely disappointed to think that she's losing that personality trait.

[=Shrensh=]

Lara has lost a lot of personality traits that she had in the other games. Can you imagine the Lara from the other games relying on a tech team when she goes out to raid tombs? I'm more disappointed over her losing her independence than her wearing a skimpy dress.

[John Carter]

Lara has lost a lot of personality traits that she had in the other games. Can you imagine the Lara from the other games relying on a tech team when she goes out to raid tombs? I'm more disappointed over her losing her independence than her wearing a skimpy dress.

Well, hopefully she will have much more personality than before, but with the minimalist approach of the earlier games everybody could imagine for themselves what she was "really" like, here it will be more scripted for us.

The only real concern with anything I have seen yet is that tech team as Shrensh mentions. I will be OK and good for giving us story background info if used in small doses, but I do hope it doesn't intrude on the solitary coolness of Lara in magnificent surroundings.

[WraithStar]

Well, hopefully she will have much more personality than before, but with the minimalist approach of the earlier games everybody could imagine for themselves what she was "really" like, here it will be more scripted for us.

The only real concern with anything I have seen yet is that tech team as Shrensh mentions. I will be OK and good for giving us story background info if used in small doses, but I do hope it doesn't intrude on the solitary coolness of Lara in magnificent surroundings.

Of course Lara will have much more personality in Legend. She was a very flat character in the previous games, but she was also extremely consistent (I'm not counting AOD here because of the dialogue choosing). I'm worried that in the process of fleshing her character out, Crystal will leave out the few personality traits that she did have.

I'm undecided about the tech team. I don't think that actually having a tech team makes Lara any less independent. In TR1, she was working for Natla. Now she has people working for her. It seems like she's more in control in Legend. If the tech team is done correctly, it will open up many more possibilities for Lara. However, I acknowledge that if it is done incorrectly, it will be extremely annoying. The tech team's voices were alright in the trailer, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see more. I'm hoping that it will be like the whisper in Blood Omen 2, where the other vampires occassionally gave Kain a warning or information about the next objective, but it was never intrusive.

[Joshorty]

...as long as there's one level (other then flashbacks) where she completely lost her contect with Zip and Alister back at the mansion for some odd, unexplainable reason, then I'm happy:o

[midroth]

Lara has lost a lot of personality traits that she had in the other games. Can you imagine the Lara from the other games relying on a tech team when she goes out to raid tombs? I'm more disappointed over her losing her independence than her wearing a skimpy dress.Anyhow...yes. No I cannot imagine. A Team is like "Kurtis x 5". You know?

[=Shrensh=]

...as long as there's one level (other then flashbacks) where she completely lost her contect with Zip and Alister back at the mansion for some odd, unexplainable reason, then I'm happy:o
It's going to take more than one level with her being out of contact to make me happy :rolleyes:

I don't know... it might turn out that it's very well done and I won't mind, but since it's just the fact that they're there that annoys me, I think it's going to irritate me intensely. A tech team is just so opposite the whole point of Tomb Raider :(

[StarChampagne]

I don't flat out object to a tech team - Zip was fine in Chronicles for a bit of light relief, and he made sense because he could disable the high-tech security systems and it made sense to have a hacker, but loneliness is a part of Tomb Raider. For example, Last Revelation was the first game I ever got, and for the first three levels you have a NPC walking right next to you or leading the way. When the NPC disappeared I was a little put out, but then I loved it because there was this whole sensation of relying on your own wits and it just being you and Lara. It may be more realistic for Lara to enter an area with backup, but she's always been a free spirit. Yes, it would be a great idea if you lost contact with the tech team! Or even better, Lara *accidentally* crushes the headset or drops it off a cliff. She's a smart girl, she can figure out puzzles by herself (with a little help from you :p) - she shouldn't need a tech team.

Imagine you are walking down the Lost Valley, and suddenly somebody back at base pipes up, 'There's a T-Rex coming your way!' and, 'Quick, there's a passageway just on your right to snipe at it from.' That would just deflate the atmosphere a bit... that was a classic moment from TR history, and I hope that if there's events like that in Legend, the tech team should at least keep quiet. She can handle herself :)

Well, this is just my opinion, but I don't want to see Legend full of sarcastic comments, comebacks and puzzle-spoilers.

[WraithStar]

Well, this is just my opinion, but I don't want to see Legend full of sarcastic comments, comebacks and puzzle-spoilers.

Agreed:)

[dhama]

When I first loaded up Tomb Raider I was astounded by the new perspective if not slightly frustrated at the weird camera angles.... something i'd never experienced before.

But Tomb Raider / Lara Croft has become an obsession for many, almost like a piece of clothing or a new car. Most of us are scrutinizing with a fine tooth comb, but no differently from the first ever play of Tomb Raider, except now we say it out loud together. :D

There are a lot of things i'd like to change about Tomb Raider, but you can't satisfy everyone can you, otherwise the world would be particularly boring.

No i'm not going to mention the obvious in this thread, because it no longer matters. It's been analysed and covered more than the clothing itself for some time now. It's like an old warn out record. I just want to play the game and then get on with other stuff that is more meaningful. :)

[StarChampagne]

Hehehe, I am moaning a bit too much :)

But I just want CD to get it right! We'll probably have at least a year to wait for the next installment. And they set the bar quite high by criticising Aod so much. I'll love Legend anyway, but I just hope CD don't get too carried away with this whole team thing...

[WraithStar]

Hehehe, I am moaning a bit too much :)

But I just want CD to get it right! We'll probably have at least a year to wait for the next installment. And they set the bar quite high by criticising Aod so much. I'll love Legend anyway, but I just hope CD don't get too carried away with this whole team thing...

Replace "team" with "dress/infiltrating a Yakuza party" and that's my view:p

[TRaiderGurl]

I think that the dress was ripped on the sides during battle, or maybe she ripped them so that she could wear her guns...i dunno. Its just that in the latest video

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tr7/hdtv_movies.html

you see the black dress and heels for a quick moment, and there are no side slits.


Anyway....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Cassaundra82/BeatADeadHorse.gif

[melviso]

I have been reading the threads and I strongly suggest that Crystal D. should take extra caution the way they go about this game.Certain games have been criticized in the past on moral grounds and I definitely would not want Tomb Raider Legend to be one of them as it struggles to gain ground after what happened with AOD.
I wonder how parents would react if they find their kids playing some impropely dressed game model on the screen.I am sure that level where Lara has this controversial dress on will be hard to finish.Ur imagination should do the rest.
I think a hot dress is appropriate but there are other ways of achieving this.I personally think the dress is kinda hot:cool: but caution....Crystal Dynamics... caution!!!

[Psychopompador]

it is likely that those kids have a copy of GTA or DOA or any of the 'outlaw' games in their collection. I'm also sure that parents would likely research the game rather than blindly walking into their child playing the tokyo level and get offended. (especially if they are parents of a child who watches any TV whatsoever after 7pm)

[melviso]

Yeah, u right.
Well.. its up to them to figure out what to do...Hope they make the right decision.Crystal Dynamics, I mean.

[Psychopompador]

yeah- i definately understood what you meant- but there are way more serious fish to fry in the video game industry than Lara's dress... "hot coffee" anyone?

for instance.... has anyone been to the Hitman: Blood Money forum? I personally havent, but i do know that one of the levels is a mansion where a former porn magazine magnate lives, and where "movies" are being shot while you traverse the level. Definatley not a kids game. But has an almost 300 reply thread been started in there about some of that games content.

thats definately apples to oranges as Legend is an all-ages game, I'm just saying that there are much worse kids can get there hands on...

[WraithStar]

yeah- i definately understood what you meant- but there are way more serious fish to fry in the video game industry than Lara's dress... "hot coffee" anyone?

for instance.... has anyone been to the Hitman: Blood Money forum? I personally havent, but i do know that one of the levels is a mansion where a former porn magazine magnate lives, and where "movies" are being shot while you traverse the level. Definatley not a kids game. But has an almost 300 reply thread been started in there about some of that games content.

thats definately apples to oranges as Legend is an all-ages game, I'm just saying that there are much worse kids can get there hands on...

Just because there are worse things out there doesn't mean that Lara should lower herself a bit in order to remain popular. I've played games such as Prince of Persia:Warrior Within where the female characters were dressed worse than Lara (I believe someone posted a pic of them earlier in this thread). It bothered me, but nowhere near this much because Lara is Lara, not one of them.

[melviso]

With a perfect camera in comparison to AOD,a close up camera angle of Lara as she makes a jump in that dress.Your guess is as good as mine.
I even hear that the camera as been so designed u can zoom in on Lara's butt.
Sales strategy..What do u think?

[WraithStar]

I think that the dress was ripped on the sides during battle, or maybe she ripped them so that she could wear her guns...i dunno. Its just that in the latest video

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tr7/hdtv_movies.html

you see the black dress and heels for a quick moment, and there are no side slits.


I'm not bothered overly much by the side slits in the dress (I can force myself to accept that she needs to put her guns somewhere:rolleyes: ). It's mainly the way the top of the dress is cut that so repulses me. Ignoring my belief that it's totally out of character for Lara to go around flirting with people for information, I think that dress is ugly because of the vertical slit in the front. It obviously provides no support and would be worse than useless in a battle. Even if they wanted to go with roughly the same...exposure for Lara's body, I think that they should have done a normal low cut, like a Victoria's Secret commercial. That would have been a lot more functional in a fight, and I think it would look better too.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

This controversy over 'the dress' is probably doing more to help publicize Legend than ads... it gets people emotional

[WraithStar]

This controversy over 'the dress' is probably doing more to help publicize Legend than ads... it gets people emotional

Is there a controversy outside of this thread? I would think that the only people reading this thread are people who have already decided whether or not to buy Legend (they are, after all, on Legend's official forum). I think that the real advertising for Legend comes from plastering shots of Lara in that dress all over magazines and such, obviously to appeal to people's baser instincts:rolleyes: Granted other games have been advertised in this way before, but Crystal specifically said that Lara has been over-sexualised in the past and they were going to get away from that.

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

Good point. Maybe the only impression average people get is from pictures of lara in a skimpy dress as the so-called "return to the original Tomb Raider"

Even so a thread on this exact topic was closed/ banned on another (unnamed ::cough::) forum after only a few days. I think the dress has upset a lot of longtime TR fans, sadly its almost like the old days again when Lara was made into some cheap -looking boob girl (or topless) in the advert promos, during months right before the game release.

[GoranAgar]

I think that the real advertising for Legend comes from plastering shots of Lara in that dress all over magazines and such, obviously to appeal to people's baser instincts:rolleyes:
Gee, the real advertising has already started. How many pictures of Lara have been released so far? Several hundred I would say. And how many of those pictures show her in that beautiful dress? Do you have a hand free?

So what is your prediction based on? Not your observations obviously.

:rolleyes:


Even so a thread on this exact topic was closed/ banned on another (unnamed ::cough::) forum after only a few days. I think the dress has upset a lot of longtime TR fans.
It was someone from this thread who opened it and most people didn't care. Just like here. Almost all longtime TR fans do not care about this mini crusade.

Poor pony.
__________________

Sherlock Holmes: "You see, but you do not observe."

[WraithStar]

Gee, the real advertising has already started. How many pictures of Lara have been released so far? Several hundred I would say. And how many of those pictures show her in that beautiful dress? Do you have a hand free?

So what is your prediction based on? Not your observations obviously.

:rolleyes:

Sherlock Holmes: "You see, but you do not observe."

I meant I've seen several magazine articles linked to on this forum that have pics of Lara wearing that dress. My comment was merely that CD isn't using objections to the dress in order to advertise the game. The magazines seem to be doing well advertising, "Look at Lara's boobies in this dress!" so I don't see why CD would want to make it into a controversial thing publicly.

I "see" Lara in that dress, and I "observe" that she no longer has any self-respect.

[Acceber]

I meant I've seen several magazine articles linked to on this forum that have pics of Lara wearing that dress. My comment was merely that CD isn't using objections to the dress in order to advertise the game. The magazines seem to be doing well advertising, "Look at Lara's boobies in this dress!" so I don't see why CD would want to make it into a controversial thing publicly.

I "see" Lara in that dress, and I "observe" that she no longer has any self-respect.

FYI, the magazine that included the first image of the dress shown in this thread, PSM2, did not have Lara wearing the dress on the front cover. They did not have Lara wearing the dress on their 'Read all about the wonderful new TR Legend game on page X' contents menu, and in an article which contained 37 images from TR Legend, only five were of the dress, and only one of those five prominently featured the cleavage you are complaining about. :rolleyes:

[WraithStar]

FYI, the magazine that included the first image of the dress shown in this thread, PSM2, did not have Lara wearing the dress on the front cover. They did not have Lara wearing the dress on their 'Read all about the wonderful new TR Legend game on page X' contents menu, and in an article which contained 37 images from TR Legend, only five were of the dress, and only one of those five prominently featured the cleavage you are complaining about. :rolleyes:

And where did that one pic come from? Either it's in the game, in which case Crystal has totally changed Lara's character, or it was released for the magazine's use in publicizing the game.

I don't read gaming magazines; I only know what I've seen on this forum and that's what I was commenting on. One of the articles I read said that Legend has over 20 outfits in it. I've only seen 5: the standard outfit (I would expect that to be there), the sweater outfit and the coat outfit (it's cold, Lara wants to stay warm, that's perfectly reasonable), some sort of full-body outfit that might have been a wetsuit (Lara swims a lot, so again that's reasonable), and then that dress (if Lara's gone back to the tombs like they say, why is she wearing this?:rolleyes: ) They've only released pictures of 1/4 of the outfits in the game, and the dress is one of them, so presumably they are using the dress as advertising. It sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the other outfits. Even if they've only released a few pictures of it, I doubt anyone who sees all of the pictures won't automatically notice the dress and wonder what it's doing there (and then either like it or hate it, but in any case, remember it).

[Xxx_Lara_xxX]

If "no long-time TR fans care about the dress" why quickly close/ban a topic about the inappropriateness of the dress in another (unnamed) forum?? :confused: If no one cares, why has this one gone on for 10 pages?? :confused:

The fact of the matter is that I am a long-time TR fan, all the way back from TR1 in 1996, I remember the original Lara and the original TR, and I also find this dress outfit so over-the-top and vulgar as to be completely unbelievable!!

Not because its so low cut almost completely showing her breasts, and her legs are completely exposed up to the hip, and her back completely exposed, but the combination of all of these things is so ***obviously*** milking TR and Lara for sex, just like Core did with the topless and lame TR4 pictures. That's why its offensive and why fans are upset.

Lara has always been sexy but not ... okay well its been said enough times. Even magazine jokes about "favourite new gadget - double sided sticky tape" is just repeating that age-old message to readers that Lara Croft = big bouncy breasts. Double sided sticky tape? Don't forget, Lara Croft = big bouncy breasts. Even my signature covers up more of her bust than the black straps on the dress, and its a **bikini***!!:eek:

[GoranAgar]

"no long-time TR fans care about the dress"
I stopped reading right there. Who are you quoting? It can't be me.

...most people didn't care. Just like here. Almost all longtime TR fans do not care about this mini crusade.

Everything has been said here. Everybody's point has been made (over and over again). You two can continue this via PM.