why was lara going 2 meet von croy in the 1st place wern't they enimies????

[lilara]

iam a bit confused need answer and were did she spend most of her time after the accident 2

i need 2 know

[LarzBritsh]

Von Croy and Lara were not enemies, well they were competitive and scornful of each other sometimes, but during the times where he was trying to kill her, he was posscessed by Set. In the end of TR4, he was back to normal and he tried to save Lara.

After she escaped, we do know that she spent sometime with a South African tribe. We do not know why he summoned her to Paris, but we are discussing it ;) .
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http://www.angelfire.com/empire/larazade/anim1.txt (http://larzbritsh.topcities.com)

[Eckhardt]

I think he summoned Lara to Paris because Eckhardt was threatening him. He probably already new what would happen if Eckhardt got his hands on the Obscura paintings

The first part I read somewhere, the second is speculation :rolleyes: :D

[hbic3]

of Lara's father, who was also an archealogist. Von Croy took Lara on her first excursion when she was 16 and in Pig Tails (You'll remember from the training level in "Last Revelation". I think the idea is that Von Croy taught Lara what she knows, and that's why she is so loyal to him. Von Croy had not only a deep respect for Lara, but he loved her. (I had to question what kind of love in TR4, the WAY he told Lara she was a "Valuable...Asset."

However, Lara grew up and became very good at Tomb Raiding, Better than Von Croy. Von Croy started to compete with Lara, to get to the prize faster than she does (you get that hint at the end of the training level in TRTLR), after all, the one who gets it is the one who gets paid. So, Von Croy would try to sabotage all of Lara's attempts. However, the last time he tried to slow her down, he accidentally got her trapped in a Tomb(Was it Set's or Horus's). He thought she died, because after weeks and months of searching, all he found was her magic backpack. Between TLR and Chronicles was the "Times Level." It began with the caption "Somewhere in Egypt 2000" Telling us that Lara had survived. This game doesn't explain, however, when or how Von Croy first learned that Lara was alive. I doubt Lara called him because she is so bitter with him, that she has a serious 'tude with him in the beginning of this game.

[Mangar The Dark]

I got the impression at the beginning of TR4 that Von Croy respected Lara's skills, but he also saw fit to use them to his own advantage. He turned against Lara when she left him to die as he tried to retrieve the Iris. Of course, she didn't have much choice, but more on that later....

Lara made herself even more unpopular with him when she broke into his office building, for no reason whatsoever, and proceeded to kill all of his men and destroy the facilities in an attempt to steal the Iris from him (I never saw any justification in her doing that.)

Needless to say, by TR4, Werner was a little pissed off with Lara. Things only got worse when he became possessed. However, he finally came back to his senses and saw fit to try and save Lara. But, just as Lara couldn't save Werner at the beginning of TR4, Werner couldn't save Lara at the end of TR4. Yet, for some inexplicable reason, Lara holds this against him (oh how quickly she forgets....)

Werner went one step further. He actually started an expedition to find Lara. As far as we know, Lara did no such thing for Werner when he was trapped.

Anyway, I think both parties are at fault, though Lara is one who started the trouble during the whole VCI incident in Chronicles, so she comes off looking worse than Werner, in my opinion. She had no business being there, and certainly no business killing the security guards. I can't imagine why Werner would call on her again after all she'd done. I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her.

[T_Rex]

I'm sorry, but I am totally lost in what you are discussing here. I would just like to figure out what happened between the time in Chronicles where Von Croy comes out of the pyramid saying "We've found her" holding her backpack (that isnt magical) and where we begin in Angel of Darkness, with Lara holding a grudge against Von Croy for "what happened in Egypt."

The last I remember, Von Croy was possessed by the spirit of the Egyptian god Seth for the entire Last Revelation game and then he was cured when Lara defeated the true Seth. Therefore the 'good' Von Croy was back and tried his best to save Lara from the collapsing tomb.

I would like to know where you got the information that Lara was in Africa or something between the end of Chronicles and the beginning of Darkness? As you remember, all of the gameplay in Chronicles were flash-backs, the 3 men reminissing about her past after her memoriam (because they thought she was dead), so nothing to do with the VCI building or the Russian Submarine or anything really matters in line with the current story plot.

Does this information surface later on in Darkness? I havent gotten that far, I am only at the Archeological Dig. Or was this info in some spin-off add-on PC game? I sure hope not.

This is one thing (of many things) that is confusing me about Darkness, that they never explained the link through the storyline of Revelations to the present story in Darkness. Help me understand!!! But dont give any spoilers if it deals with later parts of Darkness!

Thanks.

[Mangar The Dark]

Originally posted by T_Rex
As you remember, all of the gameplay in Chronicles were flash-backs, the 3 men reminissing about her past after her memoriam (because they thought she was dead), so nothing to do with the VCI building or the Russian Submarine or anything really matters in line with the current story plot.



Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you. The only reason I mentioned the VCI Towers incident is that it could explain why Von Croy was justified in not liking Lara in TR4 (she stole from him without provocation or just cause, and she murdered his men in the process.) I haven't played AOD yet, so I don't know how they explain what happened in between Chronicles and the Paris reunion. I do remember several magazine articles a while back stating that we would see a few cutscenes throughout AOD explaining how Lara survived her fall in Egypt, and I'll be disappointed if Core decided not to show them after all.

[hbic3]

Ok, not intentionally, it was a sarcasm, referring to the fact that Lara can hold several guns, loads of ammo, Large and small medipacks, Flares, all the secrets and Item pick-ups in that tiny back pack. And you don't think that's magic?

[hbic3]

"I would like to know where you got the information that Lara was in Africa or something between the end of Chronicles and the beginning of Darkness"

It wasn't between Chronicles and Darkness, it was between TR4 and Chronicles. Like I said.

"Between TLR and Chronicles was the "Times Level." It began with the caption "Somewhere in Egypt 2000" Telling us that Lara had survived. " And THAT'S where I "got that information."

I'm sure you could download the Times level from somewhere, and check it out.


The Von Croy thing where he comes in ( played Chronicles tonight to check on it, and to see if I could catch some hint of how we got from there to here) and says he's found her, was a one of the flash back sequences... but when she still didnt turn up, That is when they decided she had probably died and had the memorial service.

[LCfan]

Why was Lara breaking into Von Croy industries, in Chronicles? I'snt he her friend.....

[flamingblue8z]

To answer that one, well, she wanted the Iris, so she broke into VCI to get it.

Now, about that thing where Von Croy "finding her" being a flashback, remember IT'S NOT! During i think the beginning FMV Winston says to Father Patrick that he's afraid that Von Croy's search for Lara will end in black reality. *that's from memory, i should go pop in the game and check if that's what he said exactly*

[Mangar The Dark]

Originally posted by flamingblue8z
To answer that one, well, she wanted the Iris, so she broke into VCI to get it.

Now, about that thing where Von Croy "finding her" being a flashback, remember IT'S NOT! During i think the beginning FMV Winston says to Father Patrick that he's afraid that Von Croy's search for Lara will end in black reality. *that's from memory, i should go pop in the game and check if that's what he said exactly*

Yes, you're right. To sum up the order of events as best I can (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)--

1. Angkor Wat adventure from TR4
2. Black Isle adventure from Chronicles (we know this comes after Angkor Wat because she already has all of the skills Von Croy taught her.)
3. Tomb Raider 1
4. Rome from "Chronicles"-- this must come after TR1 because Larson and Pierre are killed in this. If it came before, they could not be in TR1.
5. Tomb Raider 2
6. VCI Towers (this must come before TR3 because Lara has the Iris in her mansion by TR3.)
7. TR3
8. Lost Artifact
9. TR4
10. Lara's memorial as shown in Chronicles. At the same time as Lara's memorial, Von Croy is in Egypt looking for her.

(I'm not sure that there's any real evidence to indicate when the nuclear sub incident from Chronicles took place. It's obviously sometime before TR4, but beyond that, I don't know. If anyone else sees any evidence, let me know.)

[T_Rex]

as posted by Mangar The Dark

Yes, you're right. To sum up the order of events as best I can (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)--

1. Angkor Wat adventure from TR4
2. Black Isle adventure from Chronicles (we know this comes after Angkor Wat because she already has all of the skills Von Croy taught her.)
3. Tomb Raider 1
4. Rome from "Chronicles"-- this must come after TR1 because Larson and Pierre are killed in this. If it came before, they could not be in TR1.




Im not saying you are wrong, but I think that it is clearly impossible to put all 6 games into a "timeline."

For example, in TR1, Lara shoots and kills Pierre before getting the second piece of the Scion. Also in TR1, Lara shoots and kills Larson inside the Sphinx before getting the final piece of the Scion.

However, In Rome in Chronicles, Larson is thrown across the yard by the 3 headed dragon and lands with a thump, nothing ever said he died. And Pierre falls into a dark chasm, and we hear the bone crunching thump on the ground, though we never technically SEE him die.

I am illustrating how there is an obvious conflict of timeline created by the story's of both games. I personally split the entire history of Tomb Raider into 2 groups.

There is the Tomb Raider from TR1, TR2, TR3 (the best). The one that says Lara learned her skills from surviving a plane crash in the Himalayas and surviving in the wild. Her parents disown her for not wanting to be the aristocratic wealthy class that they are in. They somehow die and she enherits thier fortune, thus funding her expiditions.

And then, from TRLR and on, is this new storyline. Saying that Lara learned her skills from Von Croy when she was just a teen, and that her passion for tomb raiding was facilitated by her father and encouraged. So I think that Eidos has created a completely new storyline, with a completely different Lara. They didnt feel that the original Lara, who just went out tomb raiding for the thrill of it, was enough. Every storyline since TRLR has been personal to Lara, giving her more motivation than "just for the fun of it."

And then of course, you have the Movie's storyline, a completely different 3rd Lara. And then the comic books, a 4th Lara. And so on and so on. So basically, I try to look at it as Lara Croft, the character, being put into many multiple storys and plots that have no relation to eachother what-so-ever, and it would be impossible to create any sort of 'timeline' for 1 single Lara Croft.

I personally have never played any of the expansion-packs or extra-levels for the PC like "Lost Artifact" or the other ones. I guess I'm a TR purist and I cant bring myself to play any Tomb Raider game with a keyboard and mouse. I dont feel that any storyline should be held in those additional games, because it would be like making a movie, then releasing a TV series, and then creating a 2nd movie with storylines from the TV series, assuming that everyone has seen the TV series. Not smart storytelling.

Then again, Eidos lately has been filled with not smart storytelling, as shown by the fact that we, die hard TR fans, cant even figure out what happened when!?

[flamingblue8z]

Eh, i take Mangar's look on this one. I think the sub level, by the way, is before TR4, but after TR3 most likely. Plus, if you add in the Golds, which were released on the NATIVE platform of Tomb Raider, the PC (yes, it's native to the PC, i'm gunna slap the next Tomb Raider "purist" that says it was a PS game to begin with) the storyline would be such...

1. Ankor Wat
2. Black Isle from Chronicles
3. TR1
4. TR Gold
5. Rome from Chronicles
6. TR2
7. TR2 Gold
8. VCI from Chronicles
9. TR3
10. Lost Artifact (the search for the 5th Meteorite artifact, by far my favorite "Gold" storyline)
11. Russia from Chronicles
12. TR:LR
13. Chronicles base timeframe, with Jean-Yves, Patrick Dunstan and Winston
14. Angel of Darkness

[Mangar The Dark]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by T_Rex

For example, in TR1, Lara shoots and kills Pierre before getting the second piece of the Scion. Also in TR1, Lara shoots and kills Larson inside the Sphinx before getting the final piece of the Scion.


I'll have to play TR1 again. I don't remember her killing Larson or Pierre. I thought she just killed some generic henchmen, but it's been a while, so I can't say for sure.


However, In Rome in Chronicles, Larson is thrown across the yard by the 3 headed dragon and lands with a thump, nothing ever said he died. And Pierre falls into a dark chasm, and we hear the bone crunching thump on the ground, though we never technically SEE him die.


No way Pierre could have survived that! As for Larson, I'm not sure, I always just assumed he was killed there.


There is the Tomb Raider from TR1, TR2, TR3 (the best). The one that says Lara learned her skills from surviving a plane crash in the Himalayas and surviving in the wild. Her parents disown her for not wanting to be the aristocratic wealthy class that they are in. They somehow die and she enherits thier fortune, thus funding her expiditions.

And then, from TRLR and on, is this new storyline. Saying that Lara learned her skills from Von Croy when she was just a teen, and that her passion for tomb raiding was facilitated by her father and encouraged. So I think that Eidos has created a completely new storyline, with a completely different Lara. They didnt feel that the original Lara, who just went out tomb raiding for the thrill of it, was enough. Every storyline since TRLR has been personal to Lara, giving her more motivation than "just for the fun of it."



Great point. The storylines do contradict each other. I remember hoping we'd get to one day play Lara's adventures that occurred after her plane crash in the Himalayas-- would have made a great prequel adventure. But TLR threw that storyline away... sort of.

But maybe the Himalaya thing is still valid. She learned some skills from Von Croy, sure, but it wasn't until she was forced to survive on her own that they really came into play. After the plane crashed in the Himalayas, she would have needed to resort to the skills Von Croy taught her, and that's when she started to realize just how much she loved that lifestyle. Yeah, I know it's a stretch, but hey, I'm trying to make sense of it somehow.

As for the movie, I just disregard its backstory. To me, the Lara in the movies is not the same Lara as the one in the game.

[flamingblue8z]

That's the most sense i've heard made out of the games. LOL. And yeah, the movie totally botched up. Damned Simon West, or whoever wrote the script. I wonder if the new movie can better coincide with the games? I doubt it, with Hillary and Bryce, because they're DEFINATELY not part of Tomb Raider. LOL

[Naga]

here is the answer to you origional question. contains info that you would find in the last scene of the game

Von Croy is working for Eckhardt, von croy's job is to find the painting in the hall of seasons but he cant. So he calls lara to come over wanting here to get it. As he is about to be killed he said "She can get it for you" and Eckhardt kills him because he is no longer of use. Von Croy was just planning to use lara to save his skin, while lara maybe had some hope that they might patch things up as they were once friends.

also, Lara went into the VCI building to get her iris back, which she had origionally found (if you played that first level right). i think most anyone would try and get back something that was yours and is worth millions, Lara is just one of those people who can do it.

[Mangar The Dark]

Originally posted by Naga
also, Lara went into the VCI building to get her iris back, which she had origionally found (if you played that first level right). i think most anyone would try and get back something that was yours and is worth millions, Lara is just one of those people who can do it.

She may have found it, but Werner is the one who risked his life trying to get it, while Lara said to leave it alone. Anyway you look at it, she's a thief and a murderer in those VCI levels.

[Leigh Croft]

Right i have in my hand the OFFICIAL timeline of events from start to present (taken from the official AOD companion):-

1968- Lara born
1971- Private Tutoring
1979- Enrolled at Wimbledon High School
1984- Cambodian exp. with Von Croy, Discovery of Iris
1986- Ireland, Sent to boarding school
1989- Plane crash in Himalayas
1990- Inherits Croft Manor
1995- Visits Rome to buy philosophers stone, kills bigfoot
1996- Atlantean Scion, Shadow of the Cat, Return to Atlantis
1997- Dagger of Xian, Golden mask, Steals Iris from Von Croy Industries
1998- Metiorite Idols, The Lost Artefact
1999- The Hand of Rathmore, Egyptian Ankh
2003- Angel of Darkness begins.


I also have some info. on events after the events of Egypt:-

"Lara's entombment in the Great Pyramid has caused deep trauma, and she is noticeably changed. Although Lara clawed her way out of her ancient prison, she has no idea how it happened. Her memories are vague.
A nomadic tribe helped Lara survive the harshness of the desert, where they travelled togeather along the ancient trade routes of North Africa. This inspired the stories of 'El Hawa' the Desert Wind, a mysterious figure who would appear and protect nomadic traders from marauding aggressors.
Although Lara is still alive her previous existance and old way of life are truly dead deep inside her. She returned to England to seek sanctuary after her adopted tribe family were murdered, sending Lara into dispair.
After a series of desperate phone calls from Von Croy, Lara agrees to meet him in Paris..."


I hope that clears a few things up! :rolleyes: :p

[flamingblue8z]

The only thing that doesn't make sense is Lara going to Rome BEFORE TR1. In Rome, Pierre falls to his death, and Larson, he has no choice but to be dead after being thrown like he was! I protest that Publisher's findings. LOL. That, and they said "Lost Artifact" was a different year from Hand of Rathmore. Uh, the Lost Artifact IS the Hand of Rathmore. LOL. So actually Lost Artifact belongs in 1999 as the Hand of Rathmore. Oy vey. But hey, that helps. Now, Kurtis' timeline is in the official Strategy Guide from Prima.

June 26, 1972 - Born in Utah Salt Flats, USA
1975: Kurtis, 3 years old, is trained by his father Konstantin as a Lux Veritatis initiate. The ancient order is being ruthlessly hunted by Eckhardt and the Cabal.
1988: Kurtis, aged 16, undergoes the most intense stages of his Lux Veritatis initiation.
1991: At age 19, Kurtis disappears and joins the Foreign Legion, changing his name to Trent. He remains hidden within the legion for 5 years, constantly assaulted by bizarre events linked to the occult. In this time, he gets the nickname "Demon Hunter."
1996: Kurtis leaves the Legion and begins freelancing with a variety of mercenary and less-than-legal agencies. He hears from his father, but never sees him alive again.
2001: Konstantin is murdered by Eckhardt. This is Kurtis's wakeup call. He receives 2 talismanic items, the Periapt Shards, and the terrifying Chirugai blade. In a rage of vengeance, he goes after Eckhardt.
2003: Kurtis crosses paths with Lara in Paris, and they team up in Prague to combat the Cabal and Eckhardt. Lara first sees Kurtis tearing away from Le Serpent Rouge on his motorcycle. Their paths cross several times during their adventure, but it isn't until the end of the Maximum Containment Area level that Lara finds out if Kurtis is a friend or foe. Kurtis has several psychic talents, including telekineses and a Farsee ability that gives him a glimse of areas he can't pysically reach.

There, hope you enjoy that. Hehe.

[frostyplatinum]

some one said that lara's father was an arciologist? i was not aware of that. i was always under the impression that she decided to be an arciologist because of her love for doing that. and i thought that her parents disowned her for doing that? why would a fater disown his daughter for following in his foot steps? i think some one crossed the movie and the game together.... or maybe its because its 1.40 in the morning and my eyes are burning?