Maps are useless

[llanita]

I have a very bad sense of direction in real life, and it's no better in this game. These maps are useless to me. I have a harder time getting around the towns than doing the quests.

Not only from being totally lost but having to duck every three steps I make,because of guards, frantically looking for shadows etc, or climbing the walls as a last resort. By the time, the guards have gone and I can resume, I'm even more lost lol.

I've decided that I'm going to kill every guard I see from now on.

[Lendrik]

I understand how you feel. The maps in the game only show the basic outline; many of the turns, exits and walkways aren't there, so you have to kind of figure out how they relate to the map. If there was some kind of editor, someone could have produced accurate maps from overhead screenshots.

[Powerslave]

Yet another of the dissappointments DEADLY SHADOWS contained in comparison to THIEF II.

In THIEF II the place you are would be highlighted yellow in the map so that you know where you are, and in both THIEF I and II every place you've visited would be blue-coloured in the map, so that you know where you've been and which places you haven't visited yet.

[De2nis]

agreed, they just get me more lost.

[sycotiksid]

lol, you guys all suck. I could find my way very easy with the map. Just learn how to read a basic map people hehe. Look for things around you to try and figure out where you are, and then go from there. Just basic map reading really. If you have a hard time reading these maps then geez, God help you :D

[De2nis]

All it tells me is if I need to go North, South, etc. but it doesn't even tell be what floor I'm on. I got really lost in the cradle. And I risked Garret's virtual neck for that map.

[cccc]

mm maps aren't quite useful for directions in close areas, i just use the city map and compass to find the relative position of each area and if i have to go north, east, etc. But after a while you notice that you don't need this map either. After all, it's my city:-)

As for the guards you don't have to kill/blackjack anyone.The city districts are so carefully designed that there's at least 1 way in each district (rooftops or balconies or pipes) to pass to another part of it avoiding guards or "crowded" places. (For some of them you need to get the "climbing gloves" first)

[peteuplink]

I'm quite good at reading maps (not wanting to sound big headed), but it is still very easy to lose track of what area you are in using the maps in Thief 3. I think using the highlight system like they had on the older games would have been a neat idea.

[DreamEndless]

I gotta agree. The maps are bloody pointless.

I have an excellent sense of direction and inertial spacing so I can find my way round even the most complex game of real world situiation.

But the prob with TDS is that everywhere looks to similar. Sure, by the time I'm good chunk into the game I'll be doing it blindfold, but for now the town sections are a sodding nightmare! Oh and dont get me STARTED on the 'map' you get given for the church (2nd or so mission?). Actually makes it harder to navigate!:D

[Chickenboy]

Originally posted by Lendrik
so you have to kind of figure out how they relate to the map

I think that is the whole point, it adds to the challenge of the game!

[DreamEndless]

Originally posted by Chickenboy
I think that is the whole point, it

Challenge of the game? My hairy bits!

These guys have advanced mech and magic technology and yet basic cartography escapes them? Its just daft.:rolleyes:

[Catghost]

I have a very bad sense of direction in real life, and it's no better in this game. These maps are useless to me. I have a harder time getting around the towns than doing the quests.

It's realy simple: look up the sign for the city-guard. Get as close to it as you can without being seen and put your back to it. Check your compass. Compare your position to your map. You know now wich way you basicly have to go (norht, south a.s.o) to get to your goal. Wing it from there (keep checking your map when you come across a street- or locationsign), because I agree the map is realy basic and doesn't show silly turns 'n stuff.

[Catghost]

Yet another of the dissappointments DEADLY SHADOWS contained in comparison to THIEF II.

I remember the maps in the previous Thiefs fondly. T would be nice to have them back, but admit: it's more realistic to the age the game is taking place in. I mean, GPS in the Dark Ages so your map gets highlighted, come on!!

[Powerslave]

More realistic...
Well, to talk about realism in a game where the hero has a mechanical eye, water arrows, moss arrows and is attacked by a Grey Hag and walking gargoyles while his allies Pagan/Hammer mages cast invisibility/speed spells on him is quite a difficult thing :P

[Quillan]

Well, I'm probably going to make people angry by saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway. There is no pleasing some people. For those who really have a poor sense of direction, you have my sympathy. I know some people like that in real life, so I have an idea what you are going through.

But for the rest of those complaining, there is really no satisfying you people, is there? If they made the maps the exact size with a GPS locator on it, you'd complain the game was "dumbed down". Instead, they make the maps look like hand drawn (poorly) on parchment, with nothing besides your own observation to figure out exactly where you are, and it's too hard.

I do wish I had a few suggestions to make it easier for those having problems, but I don't. Some people just can't use maps, no matter how hard they try. They can't make the correspondence between the drawing and the real world. It's not their fault, it's just the way they are. I wish you guys luck.

[Kheldin]

I'm not sure offhand, but I remember at least 1 map not having the North direction upwards, think North on the map was facing to the right of the screen. Might have been that church. Seems that I remember at least 1 map where the North direction wasn't facing upwards. Am I wrong on this, can anyone verify this? It could have just been a figment of my imagination.

[Chickenboy]

Originally posted by DreamEndless


Challenge of the game? My hairy bits!

These guys have advanced mech and magic technology and yet basic cartography escapes them? Its just daft.:rolleyes: [/B]

Well, I can honestly say I had no problems using the maps. Sure, they didn't allow me to pinpoint my exact location but, to get my bearings they had more than enough detail. Who said the maps were drawn by cartographers? A servant, or someone who had access to the building and was prepared to part with such info would most likely draw a simple sketch.

I'm not sure where people are coming from complaining about the maps, it's almost as if they just can't handle having to think for themselves?!

[Lendrik]

Originally posted by Kheldin
I'm not sure offhand, but I remember at least 1 map not having the North direction upwards, think North on the map was facing to the right of the screen. Might have been that church. Seems that I remember at least 1 map where the North direction wasn't facing upwards. Am I wrong on this, can anyone verify this? It could have just been a figment of my imagination.

I think it was the map for your first Pagan mission in the sewers,
to recover that mummified hand.
Tis Pagan witchery, brethren!
I remember I had to lean my head sideways to make it look like North is where it should be. Another reason to rant about maps in the game, he he. :D

[Socio]

i had no trouble using the maps. They're general, not precise, but that was only a small hurdle, and besides, i don't want a detailed walkthrough. Half the fun of this game, for me, is exploring and learning. i guess we should just consider ourselves lucky that there's a map to begin with.

[Powerslave]

Ultra-detailed maps is one thing, not being sure whether you're in the right corner of the map or did the flight of stairs you took lead you to the lower left basement is another. Call me a retarded taffer if you must, but that is not exactly my idea of "learning and exploring" :rolleyes:

Besides, the missions in I and II hardly required frequent use of the map to position myself, for me at least (except for the missions in the Lost City and the abandoned city quarter before the haunted Cathedral. And the amazing stroll through the Thieves' Highway, of course!), and the over-shadowing only made the few times I checked the map more convenient (without being a "walkthrough" or dumbing the game down as said; just imagine that Garrett himself marked on the map the areas he's visited :D)

It's the damned dungeon crawls in DS that made the game look more like Daggerfall and that made maps inconvenient for an 18-year-old taffer like me :eek:

[SilverZ]

You cannot see where you are - they are useless.

[Lendrik]

Originally posted by SilverZ
You cannot see where you are - they are useless.
I wouldn't call them useless for that reason, at the start of a mission you can always check your position against some sort of landmark - gates to another district for example. The trouble with the map is that it doesn't show all the ways in that area, so if I do a bit of "exploring", going into all these ziggy-zaggy passages, going into a house through one door and walking out through the other, I find myself having no idea where I am. And so I have to find some sort of landmark and compare it to the map to get my bearings. That usually happens when I'm in an unfamiliar territory, after a while I get used to the layout.

[eXz]

OMG newbies...
did you even use the maps?
I never even looked at them.
Just walk around, then u start to recognize.

[Chickenboy]

Originally posted by Powerslave
Ultra-detailed maps is one thing, not being sure whether you're in the right corner of the map or did the flight of stairs you took lead you to the lower left basement is another. Call me a retarded taffer if you must, but that is not exactly my idea of "learning and exploring" :rolleyes:

I see the problem! You're forgetting to remember as well!!

I'm sure anyone who first played in the South Quarter area, or any new area, may have found that it seemed a little confusing, I know I did. But, it's so easy to become familiar with it. As someone already mentioned, use the map for identifying landmarks - if you're not sure where you are it is simple enough to use the compass to get your bearings. It's beyond me how anyone could really have found it so confusing?!

I certainly would be enjoying the game less if anytime I felt lost I had to just look at the map and knew exactly where I was and where to go!

[DreamEndless]

Originally posted by eXz
OMG newbies...
did you even use the maps?
I never even looked at them.
Just walk around, then u start to recognize.

And people wonder why the THief community gets a bad name....

Idiot:rolleyes:

[eXz]

Originally posted by DreamEndless
And people wonder why the THief community gets a bad name....

Idiot:rolleyes:

Thanks? I'm an idiot just because i said that.
I wonder who the idiot is.

[cccc]

Originally posted by Quillan
But for the rest of those complaining, there is really no satisfying you people, is there? If they made the maps the exact size with a GPS locator on it, you'd complain the game was "dumbed down". [...]

hahah -> GPS? nice one! anyway got to agree with your point of view, but you can't prevent this from happening:-)

As for the maps, i wrote before that they are almost useles to me because when i start a mission i "sweep" the areas in a specific way so my movement is somehow related with the various rooms/locations, and despite my sense of direction is rather mediocre, i can cope with almost any area in thief.It's just a matter of how careful/open-eyed i am at the first "sweep".

[njcl]

i never use maps,i see it as cheating also the longevity of the game is increased if you have to go in blind,explore and memorise

[cccc]

Originally posted by njcl
i never use maps,i see it as cheating also the longevity of the game is increased if you have to go in blind,explore and memorise

mm i don't think you could consider maps as cheating. Don't forget that in many cases you have to search yourself to find a map and it's not always very easy. So you get the map "with your sword (ermm dagger)". Let alone the fact that maps in t3 do not go too much into details, they are rather like rough outlines of areas.
Anyway the developers surely had in mind that you could finish the game without any maps (or with just very few). That's why you don't always have the map, but you have to aquire it first (NOT as an objective -just optional)

[Ariinya]

The basic problem with these maps is that, generally, you use these maps to avoid getting lost. So say you're lost, not sure where you are, but you know where you wish to go. So you open up your map...

...where the hell am I?!

The landmarks on it are few and far between. I don't use the maps at all any longer since they're basically useless if you don't even know where YOU are on it. I bumble around until I find a place I recognize, or stumble on my destination.

[freewilly]

I think there is a point to be made for realism. I know there's all this BS about mechanical eyes and walking statues, but the point is, you're a master thief, and you should be able to find your way around without relying on a map. The map is there to give you a general idea of where things are, but it's unrealistic to expect a "You Are Here" arrow. And think where you got the maps: the one for Lord Ember's house came from a cook, the one for St. Edgar's Church was made by an amateur thief, the one for the Sunken Citadel was made by a creature that isn't even human, and the Pagans, well, they're the pagans. I guess we could have expected better maps for the Clocktower, Keeper Compound, and the Cradle, but the rest of them were supposed to be crude, hand-drawn diagrams.

The one thing that always confuses me is that a lot of the areas have an outer part and an inner part, and each of these would have its own map. For Overlook Manor and the Cradle, they were drawn on the same page without any clear indication that they represented two separate parts, and how you could get from one part to the other. Eventually, though, as I went through more and more of the compound, the map made more and more sense (Although it still took me forever to find the Staff Tower). But it's just another challenge that you have to overcome.

[llanita]

When I started this thread, I was referring to the city maps not the quest maps, those I don't bother with since I search every nook and cranny, but the town maps have me running around in circles escpecially in Stonemarket trying to get to Stonemarket proper. Looking at the compass doesn't help either if the map doesn't show where N is. Anyway, I'm glad I"m not the only one who thinks they are useless. :D

[zaerkkahn]

One thing that cut me short was how you couldn't leave little notes on the map like you used to be able to. That's the only qualm I have with it. It was a useful tool, as it was; you could leave notes about guards and their patrol routes if you didn't want to go about remembering everything. Other than that, I figure the maps are alright. Not succinct to the extent that Garrett practically has a blueprint before the job, but enough to let you know what's in store for you.

[SirWeasel]

Originally posted by llanita
When I started this thread, I was referring to the city maps not the quest maps, those I don't bother with since I search every nook and cranny, but the town maps have me running around in circles escpecially in Stonemarket trying to get to Stonemarket proper.

Two different parts of town both named... Stonemarket.:rolleyes: Guaranteed confusion.

[Lendrik]

Originally posted by SirWeasel
Two different parts of town both named... Stonemarket.:rolleyes: Guaranteed confusion.
Um... Stonemarket Plaza and Stonemarket Proper. Not exactly the same, are they?

[SirWeasel]

Originally posted by Lendrik
Um... Stonemarket Plaza and Stonemarket Proper. Not exactly the same, are they?

When you press M you see a map that just says "Stonemarket". And then you have to figure out which side you're on. Unlike the other sections of town.

But confusion is a religion in my country, so I'll just go along with it. :D

[Panther13]

Hmmm.. I like the maps of Thief 3 much more than those of Thief 1/2, especially because they are 'more realistic' and give an outline of a level without acting like a fully featured GPS moving map system (which is really boring).

Im my opinion, these maps - additional to many other things - make Thief 3 a much better game than Thief 1 and Thief 2.

[StealthMaster]

llanita I completely agree with you. My sense of direction is confused as it is. The medical term is dexlicia (spelling) I get things back to front. The maps are appauling.