Ghosting Help

[MistyDP]

To be honest I have been playing Thief for ages and never considered ghosting.

I've always blackjacked everything in sight (with the occasional kill) and called it a day. The level gets a lot easier with no guards!

Anyway I was thinking about ghosting the game from beginning to end on easy level just to try it out. Any experienced ghosters out there care to give some advice beyond the usual listen at the door first, put out alll the lights?

I was notorious in my first game for saving my items. I think I ended the game with about 22k in cash and most items maxed. This time around I plan to use the tools more effectively like shooting moss arrows to temporarily sufficate the guards, etc.

[MistyDP]

By the way..

Do you "ghosters" not use any tactics at all to alert them to a possible presence? For example, shooting a noisemaker, using a moss arrow to chocke them while you sneak by, throwing some oil on the stairs?

[tealsmith]

'Ghosting' is done in many different forms. I myself have never been able to achieve an entire game through ghosting, only a couple levels.

Your best bet when ghosting is to already know the layout of the place, and the routes of the guards. The main point of ghosting is to never come into contact with guards or civilians. Now, depending on how hardcore you want to go, there are different levels. Everything from, 'Use all items as long as you aren't seen' to 'Water arrows only' and even further.

[Lake]

Originally posted by MistyDP
By the way..

Do you "ghosters" not use any tactics at all to alert them to a possible presence? For example, shooting a noisemaker, using a moss arrow to chocke them while you sneak by, throwing some oil on the stairs?

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Some missions, it is possible to complete all the objectives on expert with 100% of the loot without alerting the guards or using any arrows. So, it all depends.

[tealsmith]

Ghosting Rules by Peter Smith: Click me taffer (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29204&highlight=Ghosting+Rules)

[MistyDP]

While I respect anyone who follows those rules, they are not for me! I'd spend more time reloading the game (as if I don't do that enough already) than playing it.

My personal definition of a successful ghosting would be to make it through the mission without being seen. Being heard is a different story.
Thanks so much

[Rockn-Roll]

IMHO:

Mice squeek when Garret steps on one. The squeeking WILL trigger a second level AI alert when close enough to the AI, even if there is no line of sight...causing wildlife to make noises is bad for a sneak...like one of the best ways of detecting an intruder into an outside area is to sow the yard with grasshoppers and/or frogs...they will become very quiet when an intruder appears. I think ghosting should also mean not making the wildlife change...this also includes the light wands in Thief I: Lost City. If you trigger one of the light wands so that they stop making that noise then it's only pure luck that a fire elemental has not seen it.

I also think that doors should be shut...in other words any room that is entered should look exactly the same when it is exited except for the liberal lifting of valuables, this includes chest doors, trap doors, etc.

I also think that extinguishing torches or using moss arrows should be minimized, and performed only if absolutely necessary, and it should not trigger any alarm except for someone just noticing that it went out. And, I think the AI should include noticing that a huge moss plant has suddenly appeared...I mean come on...that thing is about 5' x 5' and with a water arrow follow up is about 8' x 8' and can be like 6" high!

Also, I don't think a reload should be allowed...I think the mission should be played in one sitting from beginning to end without a reload.

[Rockn-Roll]

Originally posted by MistyDP
By the way..

Do you "ghosters" not use any tactics at all to alert them to a possible presence? For example, shooting a noisemaker, using a moss arrow to chocke them while you sneak by, throwing some oil on the stairs?

In Thief 1 the guards would run over to the noisemaker arrow and say something like, "it's just this thing...ok, someone must be around." This does trigger a second level alarm and thus is not ghosting. If the arrow can be lodged into a tree above ground, or somewhere that a guard can not get to it I think they don't say anything, but still go into second level alarm, and so again doesn't meet ghosting rules.

Also, no choking allowed, the guards can not be interacted with at all in my opinion. I think oil might be OK as long as the guard is not injured, but it would be better to not use oil.

I think the game is directed toward sneaking around. There is usually a way to get around disturbing a guard. Most guards can be coaxed into stepping out of their post on a level 1 alert...for example running across a hallway can sometimes startle a guard into triggering them to start walking a path, but they don't go into level 2 and start looking for anything. In T3:DS the guards usually rub the back of their neck and then walk around; though, some guards simply take a couple of steps and then turn around and walk back to their post...again just level 1 alarm which puts them into an alternate AI configuration. This is indeed necessary in the museum mission of T3 where there is a guard with his back against the wall and full light in front of him...but just a little noise will get him to turn to look toward the noise, rub his neck, and then start walking around...and in one place the guard will have an alternate conversation with another guard that you won't hear unless you can coax the one guard out of place.

[Catghost]

Excuse my stupidity, but what exactly is ghosting?
From what I read it's fun.:confused:

[uberam]

Originally posted by tealsmith
Ghosting Rules by Peter Smith: Click me taffer (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29204&highlight=Ghosting+Rules) Wanna know about ghosting? Click the link above. I just Ghosted the "End of a Bloodline" Mission. It was quite a challenging.

Edit: Well, O.K., summarized:

Ghosting is playing the mission on highest difficulty level and completing the objectives: Without being seen, detected or getting the guards/NPCs hunting/searching for you. Generally getting 2nd level alerts. Without killing or knocking anyone out, this includes gassing people. Without sustaining any combat damage. No damage to anything.For clarifcation, read the rules.

[tealsmith]

Originally posted by Rockn-Roll
Also, I don't think a reload should be allowed...I think the mission should be played in one sitting from beginning to end without a reload.

I believe that's called 'Ironman' Ghosting.