Odyseeos
06-27-2004, 05:36 AM
I read somewhere that the Hag can be killed, so I ran some extensive tests and thought I would report on the results.
The first responsibility was to find a perfectly safe and effective place:
I found that the upper ledge of the "Thieves' Highway" is safe. Her angle of trajectory wasn't quite high enough. The lower ledge is not safe. But that is awfully far away and she tends to get out of sight a lot. So, I finally settled on the building across the street from Cothron's Armory at Stonemarket Proper. I also tested the alley next to Cothron's Armory. It was fairly safe, but she can occasionally get into that alley. OTOH, she never succeeded in entering the other Building. Every area has some availability for sniping, but I chose the one given here at Stonemarket-- because it was safe, quite near the Hag, and had the advantage of many fighting Townspeople. I wanted that, because I wanted their help.
The first thing G* did was to put out all lighting that could possibly be extinguished.
The basic method used was shoot, hide, and wait until she settled again. The entire sequence of tests took perhaps twelve hours. There were also a few varying tests whose saves were erased by the main set.
At one point, G* found a place half in front of the door of that building where there was a pitched frontal battle between the two. Because of the position, I wanted to see how she would react to shooting herself. A wall prevented her shooting hand from actually hitting Garrett. Unfortunately, an occasional shot came partially through the wall with slight injury to G*
On the first full test, G* used up 5 Mines, 15 Fire Arrows, 20 Flashbombs, 5 Oil Flasks, 3 Holy Water Vials, and 30 Broadarrows. On the second full test, G* used up 10 Mines, 30 Fire Arrows, 10 Oil Flasks, and 60 Broadarrows.
The second Test required repurchasing, so G* did not deposit the Sentient.
During the first test, the streets filled with people. At the end, I had never seen so many discarded wands. They must have totaled something better than 100. The people did not cease coming.
But, on the second test, when G* returned, the Hag attacked into the juxtaposed street often, and Stonemarket Proper quickly became a Ghost Town. And no one ever came again. In fact, after G* used up his weaponry, I had him sit for 30 minutes in a far part of Stonemarket Proper to see if anyone would ever show up. No one did. Unfortunately, I didn't test an Exit and Return.
The idea of battling Groups or individuals gaining dominance in some area, so that members of an opposed group cease to appear, is an interesting phenomenon. It happens often, but I am uncertain what keys its occurrence. In the Docks area, I have seen the City Guard completely disappear, and the Pagans take over the Guardwork. Also, the Hammers have controlled some other areas, by eliminating the Keeper Enforcers or Golem-like Stonemen, while the Guard was eliminated by those same enemies. Afterwards, the Guard may not re-appear, and numerous Hammers or Pagans will patrol those streets. Also, in come areas, the Pagans and Hammers can easily themselves contest a particular street during a period of riot, with great mutual bloodshed, resulting in dominance of one or the other.
Again, I don't know what keys in a situation in which members of groups do not re-appear ad infinitum.
Anyway, the conclusion of the two tests was that the Hag, after much damage, will freeze and turn invisible for less than 30 seconds. Throughout, you can see her image. And the image is solid enough to strike with Dagger or Blackjack. After the time of "ghostliness", she will re-appear in full solidity, which return cannot be prevented by repeated strikes of Dagger during the ghostly period.
Further, if Garrett remains somewhere within her sight-perspective, even in complete darkness, when she re-appears, she will know exactly where he is and attack him with great fury and certainty. The effect is less permanent, since he can run, but is almost as terrible as when Constantine would see Garrett in the Maw. She's quick, and she's tough to get rid of.
A final test was that, when she was invisible, Garrett attacked her with, first, the BJ, and then the Dagger. When she subsequently came to full solidity, she laughed at the BJ, but did not laugh at the Dagger. She seemed to be troubled by them both, however, and only got one shot off, each time, before she was again returned to invisibility. During invisibility, she is motionless; so, it should be possible to attack and to survive, for a time.
But, in conclusion, I do not think it is possible to eliminate her from any of her areas. She is not factually killable, according to these tests, although the Ghost period seems to imply an impermanent vulnerability.
There may be a curious partial exception; but I am uncertain as to what happened. During one previous play, the Hag did not show up at all at the Docks. Whether she just Buggishly did not appear or fell into the water, I do not know.
The first responsibility was to find a perfectly safe and effective place:
I found that the upper ledge of the "Thieves' Highway" is safe. Her angle of trajectory wasn't quite high enough. The lower ledge is not safe. But that is awfully far away and she tends to get out of sight a lot. So, I finally settled on the building across the street from Cothron's Armory at Stonemarket Proper. I also tested the alley next to Cothron's Armory. It was fairly safe, but she can occasionally get into that alley. OTOH, she never succeeded in entering the other Building. Every area has some availability for sniping, but I chose the one given here at Stonemarket-- because it was safe, quite near the Hag, and had the advantage of many fighting Townspeople. I wanted that, because I wanted their help.
The first thing G* did was to put out all lighting that could possibly be extinguished.
The basic method used was shoot, hide, and wait until she settled again. The entire sequence of tests took perhaps twelve hours. There were also a few varying tests whose saves were erased by the main set.
At one point, G* found a place half in front of the door of that building where there was a pitched frontal battle between the two. Because of the position, I wanted to see how she would react to shooting herself. A wall prevented her shooting hand from actually hitting Garrett. Unfortunately, an occasional shot came partially through the wall with slight injury to G*
On the first full test, G* used up 5 Mines, 15 Fire Arrows, 20 Flashbombs, 5 Oil Flasks, 3 Holy Water Vials, and 30 Broadarrows. On the second full test, G* used up 10 Mines, 30 Fire Arrows, 10 Oil Flasks, and 60 Broadarrows.
The second Test required repurchasing, so G* did not deposit the Sentient.
During the first test, the streets filled with people. At the end, I had never seen so many discarded wands. They must have totaled something better than 100. The people did not cease coming.
But, on the second test, when G* returned, the Hag attacked into the juxtaposed street often, and Stonemarket Proper quickly became a Ghost Town. And no one ever came again. In fact, after G* used up his weaponry, I had him sit for 30 minutes in a far part of Stonemarket Proper to see if anyone would ever show up. No one did. Unfortunately, I didn't test an Exit and Return.
The idea of battling Groups or individuals gaining dominance in some area, so that members of an opposed group cease to appear, is an interesting phenomenon. It happens often, but I am uncertain what keys its occurrence. In the Docks area, I have seen the City Guard completely disappear, and the Pagans take over the Guardwork. Also, the Hammers have controlled some other areas, by eliminating the Keeper Enforcers or Golem-like Stonemen, while the Guard was eliminated by those same enemies. Afterwards, the Guard may not re-appear, and numerous Hammers or Pagans will patrol those streets. Also, in come areas, the Pagans and Hammers can easily themselves contest a particular street during a period of riot, with great mutual bloodshed, resulting in dominance of one or the other.
Again, I don't know what keys in a situation in which members of groups do not re-appear ad infinitum.
Anyway, the conclusion of the two tests was that the Hag, after much damage, will freeze and turn invisible for less than 30 seconds. Throughout, you can see her image. And the image is solid enough to strike with Dagger or Blackjack. After the time of "ghostliness", she will re-appear in full solidity, which return cannot be prevented by repeated strikes of Dagger during the ghostly period.
Further, if Garrett remains somewhere within her sight-perspective, even in complete darkness, when she re-appears, she will know exactly where he is and attack him with great fury and certainty. The effect is less permanent, since he can run, but is almost as terrible as when Constantine would see Garrett in the Maw. She's quick, and she's tough to get rid of.
A final test was that, when she was invisible, Garrett attacked her with, first, the BJ, and then the Dagger. When she subsequently came to full solidity, she laughed at the BJ, but did not laugh at the Dagger. She seemed to be troubled by them both, however, and only got one shot off, each time, before she was again returned to invisibility. During invisibility, she is motionless; so, it should be possible to attack and to survive, for a time.
But, in conclusion, I do not think it is possible to eliminate her from any of her areas. She is not factually killable, according to these tests, although the Ghost period seems to imply an impermanent vulnerability.
There may be a curious partial exception; but I am uncertain as to what happened. During one previous play, the Hag did not show up at all at the Docks. Whether she just Buggishly did not appear or fell into the water, I do not know.