Thoughts on finishing the game (spoilerish)

[phydeux]

1) There's a tunnel with a Keeper Door in the Docks just WEST of the gate. Does ANYONE know what this is for? I never saw a use for it in the entire game.

2) WTH happened to Garrett's face in the final cutscenes? He looks about 20 years younger and the artwork looks completely different than anything in the entire series. Please don't tell me this was something thrown together at the end so they could make deadline.

3) And I can't tell what the ending is supposed to mean. Does it mean the story comes full circle and Garrett just ends up teaching a new protogee? Or is he stuck in a perpetual loop and catches his younger self picking his older self's pockets?

[harishreddy]

Uhmn, check the genders in the cutscenes

[phydeux]

Its kinda hard to tell one way or another from just a face. Especially if its a kid.

[tealsmith]

The final bit of the ending is just a nod towards fans of the original Thief. It's a girl he catches trying to pick-pocket him. Besides, how could a time loop like that occur? Especially since all the glyphs are gone and the Keepers have lost their power.

[phydeux]

Who's to say there's not other forces at work in their world? The Pagans and Hammers don't use glyphs. ;)

[Odyseeos]

If you notice, when Garrett places the last Sentient, there's a white light from the sky which burns the Keeper symbol into his hand, rids him of his facial scar, and makes his features much younger. A lot of people have complained about the change in his features, but I think it was by design.

[Rockn-Roll]

Originally posted by phydeux There's a tunnel with a Keeper Door in the Docks just WEST of the gate. Does ANYONE know what this is for? I never saw a use for it in the entire game.

I believe that is where I climbed out of the Prison...don't tell me you made it out the front door!

[phydeux]

So what about my original question? What's the point of the keeper door under the docks?


And to RocknRoll above: I'm aware of the prison exit, and yes I made it through the front door. Not that difficult really. Anyway, the spot I'm talking about is on the Docks side of the gate, not South Quarter.

[Odyseeos]

Your description for #1 is a little difficult to apprehend, because 'gate' can refer to a number of different gates.

If you mean the gate to the South Quarter, that gate is to the West when you stand in front of it. So, I'm a little puzzled as to what the references are. But let me give it a try.

If Garrett is in the Docks area, looking toward the big gate to the South Quarter, to his right is a depressed wall behind some boxes. And, on that wall is a Keeper Symbol which allows G. to go to the South Quarter. But I'm pretty sure you're aware of that.

Now, if Garrett is still looking at that big gate to the South Quarter, to his left a little bit, but along that same wall, there is a tunnel that can lead to another Keeper Symbol. And that one is the one that leads to the Sunken Citadel. But I imagine you're aware of that.

So, could you give a more precise description of where the new Symbol is? I'd like to look at it; but I'm really uncertain as to even what part of the Docks area you're referring to. Or what part of the Game it is, since Keeper Symbols to particular Missions appear and disappear at different times.

By the way, I sure agree with you that the ending is obscure in its intent. Right now, I've got interpretations that run the gamut from "Secret Keeper Initiation Ceremony" to "Stone Age Economic Ideal". I suspect that part of the story was suppressed due to time. The lack of a speaker who does appear in the credits for the Heart, a story and Mission for the Heart; the lack of a full experience with the Sentients as the Being it is advertised to be; the peculiar beginning of the note at the topmost point in the Forbidden Library; the unexplained sudden completed knowledge in Inventory of where the Sentients are supposed to go; the lack of full play on the Time theme. The lack of extension in the Gamall's Episode, which clearly was intended as a full Mission. All that, and a lot more, spells truncated story to me. Other than the fact that it is all repeated for the child, the ending is innecessarily obscure, unsatisfying to immersion, and heartless to me. It lacks generation and basis.

[Guineapiggy]

'The first keeper is just a surrogate for the one true keeper, who's arival we await with dread.'

The idea was that whoever activated the final glyph became the true keeper, forever present dead or alive like Viktoria or the Trickster. The dread wasn't in reference to the keeper himself, but what came before. Why would they be afraid of the man who held all the glyphs, the keystone of balance after all?

(And I believe that that tree being grown in the pagan section was indeed Viktoria. Not entirely sure why, I was just given that impression. Why else would it be so big, magical, important and grow so quickly?)

Anyway, this is also alluded to in the writings of Gamall and the loading screens, where Garrett is the most prominent man in the prophecies at every turn, and those from Thief 1 will remember such signs as 'His skills were unmatched'. The Eye also seems to hnt to to this in a way with his surprise over seeing Garrett again and wondering how a mere mortal could still be alive.

Not only this but consider that in the first game, he kept the Trickster in check, balance, making sure he didn't get what he intended, and in the second it was the builder. In the third, the keepers lost all balance and who was caught in the middle again? Garrett. No matter what his reasons, his actions kept the balance of power in check. Where all the other keepers had fallen apart, one person holding all the glyphs... that keyhole mark... one true keeper. The others had all endangered the balance of the city and only one man had protected it.

Seems pretty clear to me at least. Every reference in the game, no matter how minor, to the state of the city had some significance. Even the very first overheard conversation, the man who had no skin. Then the childeren's rhymes, etc, etc. It all adds up, so the quote above must be of similar signifcance IMO.

Also, why else would Orland want Garrett to destroy the final glyph? Why would Gamall want Garrett to do likewise as well? She was hedging her bets, if he got his hands on them then everything she had feared in her writing, the prominence of Garrett, would come true. Orland didn't want Garrett to be party to this power either, considering who he was and what Orland had done to him. Orland had already proven he was greedy and self-motivated.

Seems pretty clear to me.

[Odyseeos]

Possible; and really kind of nice. Even so, what actually happens at the end is very obscure, and your interesting idea is not determinable from the ending.

And now, try your hand at interpreting the obscure beginning of the message at the top of the Forbidden Library:

"Thorenson: An acolyte scribed this passage yesterday. Sound familiar? 'Meet me-- Isolde'" I'm writing that from memory; I hope I remembered it.

That carries a burden of meaning to me. I don't know what it means, but I know what it should mean. And that bothers me.

[Guineapiggy]

It sounds like it's related to that video where the glyphs start changing, Gamall's influence I think, not sure. They must have found it in the desk, seems to fit with the deliberate wording of 'this passage' instead of 'this book', or just 'this' though I'm not sure. It is a bit obscure.

[Odyseeos]

Looking at the rest of the message might help, although it is relatable only via a pun on "Mark". And, remember, where it is found.

I agree that it has a certain similarity with Gamal's cute message to Garrett. But the problem I really have with this runs back to Viktoria.

Anyway, here's the full document:"Thorenson: An acolyte ascribed this passage yesterday. Sound familiar? Meet me-- Isolde. The safeguard against the Evil Ones will be found. The last of All Glyphs that all can view but none can see. The Eye will be borne by the One who will not yet bear the Mark. Between the two none shall come until the Unwritten Times are upon us.

I don't think Gamal would have written that. The body of it is pretty clear, taken literally. Garrett finally gets the mark in his hand at the end. He and the Eye are separated when he gives it up to the City.

Maybe that last is right. I'm not sure. He delivers the essentials of an entire body to the City. What that means is not entirely clear. Your idea that he becomes avatar works in this fairy tale. You've got the crown and the whole schtick and the long struggle.

But there's a problem. And I think it's the top of that passage. As it stands, it makes no sense. And I don't think one can integrate Garrett's cynicism into anything without it. He gets youth, he gets beauty, he gets knowledge, he gets power. What's missing there?

[Acrimitis]

Odyseeos, isnt it a note from one scribe to another?

"Thorenson: An acolyte ascribed this passage yesterday. Sound familiar? Meet me-- Isolde." thats the message to the other scribe
tye rest of is the actually passage he's talking about.

[Guineapiggy]

I never suggested the message was by Gamall, just about her influence.