What the hell happened with the sword?!!!

[racer1986]

Why isn't it part of the inventory anymore? Stealth can use a good messure of violence.

[jrsein]

They replaced it with a dagger. Which IMO is more suitable for a thief and now the ability to backstab.

[racer1986]

you could also backstab with the sword, and I can say it was more effective for combat.

[jrsein]

I didn't know that. When I think of a thief I think of daggers, swords just don't fit the image of a thief. I guess it's just me.

[racer1986]

you have a point. Thief and swords don't match, but I try to think that the character is more like a kind of ninja. But that is me.

[Mr. Perfect]

The dager seems like the more Thiefish thing, but in game it's practicly useless. I would apreciate either a longer dagger, or a short sword.

[jrsein]

I don't think it's really useless, I mean thiefs aren't supposed to go toe to toe with heavily armored guards. They are stealthy and the idea of stabbing someone in the back with a pointy dagger from the shadows sounds like a thief to me, short sword, long sword just doesn't feel right.

[UniTom]

To me the dagger isn't Garret either, Blackjack or nothing I say.

Lets face it, playing Thief properly means killing nobody.

I miss the sword, but only because I used to like fighting with the guards when I was bored. Blocking their combos and timing your counter attack was very satisfying.

Apart from that I am pretty indifferent towards the whole issue.

[Acimus]

Originally posted by jrsein
They replaced it with a dagger. Which IMO is more suitable for a thief and now the ability to backstab.

Would someone explain to me what's the difference between backstabbing and blackjacking a guy?

Unconscious guard is just as good as dead, because they never wake up! One of the major ***** ups in the previous Thefs that hasn't been corrected in DS as I see. Or would it make the game "too hard" for some crybabies that complain about respawning guards in one particular level?

How about that guard who founds unconscious fellow would wake him up and off we go again? Wouldn't it be much better implemented that way? There should also be some worse penalty in killing a guy than just a small pool of blood that doesn't matter too much after all. Perhaps after dead guard/blood revealed there would be reinforcements to investigate, I mean more guards somehow "respawned" in the level through the main gate or something?

Also seems stupid that a guy carrying torch doesn't light up the
torches/candles he notices to be extinguished. Same thing here as with unconscious bodies, light sources I extinguish never get lighted up again. After a while the whole castle is dark and most of guards kocked off/dead and rest of them just don't care, perhaps just say "How did that go off" or "Oh no he's dead" and after short search of the perimeter they just go back their patrol routes. Quite unrealistic if you ask me.

[Mr. Perfect]

Originally posted by UniTom
Lets face it, playing Thief properly means killing nobody.


That is your own personal opinion. There really is no right way to play Thief. When I'm playing I'm a thief, and I'll do anything necesary to complete a theft. Including killing.

There's a right way to play the expert dificulty on the other hand, but that's just to make the game as difficult as possible. :p

[jrsein]

Like the post above mine says:cool:

Would someone explain to me what's the difference between backstabbing and blackjacking a guy?

Some people like playing differently, maybe pretend they're an assassin rather then a thief.

[Acimus]

Originally posted by jrsein
Some people like playing differently, maybe pretend they're an assassin rather then a thief.

Yeah, like dagger instead of blackjack for those who have the principle of killing everyone in every game and want to see blood, none shall live etc.?

I'm thinking more of the consequences caused by different actions. One slightly different way to put guard out cold is quite needless if the consequences are exactly the same using both methods.

Why use the dagger if blackjack is much more cleanier way and causes the exact same result: A dead guard that never wakes up again? If the guard would wake up after some time from being blackjacked, I would imagine some players getting tired of knocking him out constantly so player would use his dagger to get rid of the guard, for good.

But then again, if guards would wake up after being knocked out, why use the blackjack while you can kill him with the dagger and he'll never be bothering you again? Because the consequences are just too lame, player doesn't really need to think is killing/knocking a guard really necessary.

If the guards would really become more beware after revealing a body (their seeing and hearing would improve, causing some kinda "paranoia" effect), player would perhaps think twice before putting a guard down. Or at least think better where to hide the body.

Well, this is just me thinking too much... Guess too much of a perfectionist I am. :p

[HornedSalmon]

Gards will get jumpy at a pool of blood so thats a reason to go blackjack.. but if there is a fire or better yet water around ill dump a blackjack victim in there and watch them die.. I loved that about the old thief games.. knocking someone out then drowning them... thats what its all about.

[MrWynd]

I like trying different things through the same lvls, including killing people. It's even fun to find inventive ways to kill people. I've thrown blackjacked people into gears and let them die. I've thrown people out high windows. I'ts all very fun :)

[Tybalt]

In case you hadn't noticed, stabbing a guy in the back is really f**king noisy. Much more chance of alerting a guard.

[UniTom]

Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
That is your own personal opinion. There really is no right way to play Thief. When I'm playing I'm a thief, and I'll do anything necesary to complete a theft. Including killing.

There's a right way to play the expert dificulty on the other hand, but that's just to make the game as difficult as possible. :p

I never said otherwise. My opinion based on the fact that expert is the true difficultly setting for Thief.

I remember the objectives stated, "You are a thief not a murderer". I have stuck by that ever since.

I feel a little saddened that killing has been allowed at expert setting.

However, on missions I see no difference between using a dagger and a blackjack. To me, the dagger is more trouble than its worth; what with the noise and blood created. At least the sword had a point to it, the ability to block blows if you ever found yourslef in a confrontation.

[UniTom]

Originally posted by Acimus
Yeah, like dagger instead of blackjack for those who have the principle of killing everyone in every game and want to see blood, none shall live etc.?

I'm thinking more of the consequences caused by different actions. One slightly different way to put guard out cold is quite needless if the consequences are exactly the same using both methods.

Why use the dagger if blackjack is much more cleanier way and causes the exact same result: A dead guard that never wakes up again? If the guard would wake up after some time from being blackjacked, I would imagine some players getting tired of knocking him out constantly so player would use his dagger to get rid of the guard, for good.

But then again, if guards would wake up after being knocked out, why use the blackjack while you can kill him with the dagger and he'll never be bothering you again? Because the consequences are just too lame, player doesn't really need to think is killing/knocking a guard really necessary.

If the guards would really become more beware after revealing a body (their seeing and hearing would improve, causing some kinda "paranoia" effect), player would perhaps think twice before putting a guard down. Or at least think better where to hide the body.

Well, this is just me thinking too much... Guess too much of a perfectionist I am. :p

I agree, I think if guards find a dead body they should always remain alert. That does not necessarily mean they will always search; just pay more attention on patrol.

[Acimus]

Originally posted by Tybalt
In case you hadn't noticed, stabbing a guy in the back is really f**king noisy. Much more chance of alerting a guard.

Noisy maybe, yes - but for the player's ear only.
For AI-guards backstabbing seem to be as quiet as blackjacking no matter how much noise the dropping sword and guard yelling "Aaarghhh" make.

Guards also don't seem to hear if I shoot normal broadhead arrows in to the wall next to them, no matter how loud sound they make. But I guess it's just another stupidly unrealistic balancing issue like "noisemaker arrows only are for distraction", why would I buy more expensive noisemakers if I can use broadheads for distraction as well? Anyway quite stupid, another mark for my "Thief 3 ultra unrealistic things"-list...

[jrsein]

For AI-guards backstabbing seem to be as quiet as blackjacking no matter how much noise the dropping sword and guard yelling "Aaarghhh" make.

Actually I notice that when I blackjack it makes less noise. I can blackjack someone in the shadows a couple feet from another guard and they won't notice. But if I backstab them the other guard will become alert. That plus if they see the blood they'll know a fight went on and start searching.

[Kaspre]

Meh, the only thing I miss about the sword is banner-slashing. I mean really, there are tons of pretty banners hanging about and I've got this perfectly servicable knife. Um, hello?

I could slash banners in T1 and T2, why'd they drop the ball in T3??

[Lord_Gareth]

Although I cannot get T3 to work I do indeed know that the sword was used by Garret I belive the sword made him what he was, the legendary theif.