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View Full Version : Got it, played it...my impressions


SneakyEerok
05-27-2004, 01:54 PM
Summary-
Thief fans rejoice, this game rocks! An amazing game that keeps the core of what was great about the first two games and makes many subtle (and a few not so subtle) improvements.

The Details -

**Graphics**

I got the PC version yesterday and have played through the tutorial and the first mission. I've read all the published 'official' game reviews from the various sites. From reading these reviews I was so totally expecting a crappy game with horrid graphics...and maybe that worked to my advantage. Let me tell you Thief fans...this game has AMAZING graphics.

Now I've never played Farcry and maybe there are a few FPS games on the market with even better graphics, but if you are like me the bar you compare this game to is the PREVIOUS THIEF GAMES. Compared to Thief I and II the graphics are spectacular. The NPC animations are superb. Guards stretch, sneeze, sigh and look around, and add many other subtle 'believability' improvements from the previous games. Yes, they occasionally do 'stutter' but man you have to be unbelievably picky to seriously knock the game engine for such a minor flaw.

The atmospheric graphics...from the moonlight streaming in from windows, to the torches casting flame as a guard carries it down the hall...are all top notch. The castle from the first 'real' mission is small but very well designed, believable, and looks great.

**The Sound**

I'll talk less about the sound because most reviews do a good job of giving props here. It is excellent...even better than the first two games. The guards and other NPC's are VERY observant about noticing torches and candles being snuffed out and mention it. They also notice when loot is missing. On 'normal' difficulty level they don't do much other than comment on 'hmmm, where did that go' or 'I'm not gonna relight that...its not my job!', but on higher difficulty levels it actually triggers the 'suspicious' AI routine and they start looking around.

**Other ways Thief:DS is an improvement over I and II**

First off, I feel like in DS Garret is actually a nimble thief! In I & II, although he was excellent at hiding in shadows, actually running and leaping and other 'dextrous' maneuvers could be quite a chore...part of it due to the clumsier interface and others just due to engine limitations...ie poor Garret could easily get stuck on a chair or bench. In DS, he feels much more nimble, and his default movement is a sort of 'stealthy run' which works out really well. He can jump much better and generally feels more acrobatic.

Second, I really really give props for the new lockpicking interface. I'm not saying its 'realistic' by any stretch, but much less clumsy than the first two games. First, you no longer have to manually select the tools, pull them to the 'front' and then click on a door. The lockpick interface just automatically comes up if you try to open a locked door or chest, and it goes away quickly if you right click. This makes for some GREAT tension moments if you are trying to lockpick a door in between guard patrols, as its quite possible to jigger the first tumbler away, hear footsteps getting closer, and step back into the shadows. This 'lockpick & duck' routine was much tougher to pull off in I & II simply because the interface was clumsy.

Third...WOW I really LOVE the 'up against the wall' feature that has been added! It works amazingly well and looks supremely cool. I've mapped the hotkey for it to one of my extra mouse buttons, so its very easy for me to scamper from wall to wall, quickly pressing up against it for safety as an NPC passes, and so forth. It REALLY adds to the gameplay...surprisingly so. If you are stuck in a narrow corridor and an NPC unexpectedly comes your way (hope they don't have a torch), you have options other than turning and running. There is a good chance you can press against the wall and still be unseen (if its dark enough of course)

Fourth...the engine, not just the graphics, is just superior. The physics of the game world are much easier. Garret can mantle and climb much more nimbly. He does not get stuck on gameworld objects. He can crawl through windows (discovered this by accident on the way out of the first mission...would have made my entry a lot easier hehe). I've committed to not using the 3rd person view to 'cheat' (view around corners) but I certainly like doing it frequently just for the coolness factor. Garret looks great. (tip...use 'up against the wall' feature and swithc to 3rd persion view and then move around. Too cool). Also, I have a 'mid-range' comp (2ghz) with a good graphics card (9800 pro) and it runs very smooth at 1280x1024 with full graphics pizzaz turned on. I bumped it up to 1600x1200 but the graphic difference was practically unnoticable and it did run considerably slower, so I dropped it back down.

Fifth...backstabbing...oooh for you assassin types (I'm more into avoidance) this is just too cool and has to be seen. My 12 year old son just cackles with glee its so cool.

6th...you can kill cats. How many games let you kill cats?

7th...AI/NPCs. Much better than previous games. MUCH. Doorways are no longer 'invisible zones' where you can stand and they won't see you. They notice a much broader range of 'odd things' to alert them, but they search more realistically...they no longer seem to hone in on you as easily as they did in the first two games. And the amount of dialogue they seem to have so far is amazing. Hopefully its not repeated endlessly throughout the game, but for the first couple of levels the NPC's really seem to have a huge range of comments they make that are situationally dependant, as well as scripted dialogues that are funny and useful.

Ok, things that didn't thrill me
You know, I only put this in because I don't want to be too fanboyish...but honestly the stuff that I didn't like is so nitpicky its insane. Thief I and II had way many more annoyances (although different ones) and I still loved the heck out of those games. Anyway here we go:

Sort of hard to tell what is loot and what isn't. objects light up so brightly when they are targetted its hard to see the 'loot sparkles'. For instance, there are candles in the first mission that are just worthless junk, and some are actual loot. Kind of hard to tell the difference unless you sit and stare at them for a bit to see the 'loot sparkle'

I can't see the blackjack swinging. In I & II it was very visceral...you raised your blackjack, held it steady, then gave a mighty 'whump' as it came down on your opponents head. In DS, you raise your blackjack automatically when you get in striking range and click to swing...but the swing animation is either too fast for me to see or its just not that good...not sure which, but its not the greatest either way. The dagger works under a similar concept but you can clearly see yourself driving the dagger into the victem's spine, so its much more satisfying :)

The eyezoom is much neater graphically, but actually not as useful. Its much grainier...a realistic touch but does reduce its functionality for me.

The map no longer has a 'blue' area to indicate where you are. Again, more realistic but less user friendly.Also doesn't show multi-levels well, so can be confusing (hey...there should be a corridor here...oh wait, thats on the first level)

I did have one situation (so far) where two NPC's got stuck in a door way (each walking the other direction) and would not leave the area.

*************Final Word**************

How this game is only getting scores in the mid-8's is mind blowing to me. Unless it goes significantly downhill after the first few levels, I would rate this game as a solid 9+. I AM biased towards medieval low tech settings, but even still it is so superior to Hitman/Pandora that its not even close. I've only played the first couple levels and I'm already DREADING the day I finish the game! I've never done that before...I was that impressed by it. For the sake of the future of the franchise (I want to see Thief 4) I hope the reviews start to come around and true Thief fans get the word out!!!!!!

riggs58
05-27-2004, 02:46 PM
Excellent review of your experience with the game. I may not like it as much as you but it does add some pretty cool features. I really like the new lock picking and the new Havok physics system - though I agree, some of the rag doll physics can look very silly.

The graphics however, are a mixed bag. While far away they look great but on closer inspection the textures look very crude. Graphics aren't everything though and in that respect this game stays true to the original in trying to create a rich atmosphere that exceed it shortcomings. While it does suceed on some levels I just didn't feel it wholeheartingly captured the Thief experience. Call me nostaglic but I just like the Looking Glass games better - of'course I could be in the minority as many people, like you, really like it.

ultravioletu
05-27-2004, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by SneakyEerok
6th...you can kill cats. How many games let you kill cats?
Well, this is not a good point for me!!
Could we have a "cat lover" version, when we can kick dogs instead? :)

Tybalt
05-28-2004, 12:25 AM
If killing cats doesn't appeal to you, you probably wouldn't enjoy shoving a shotgun up one's arse and firing repeatedly, would you? If not, well, don't play Postal 2.

van_HellSing PL
05-28-2004, 12:29 AM
I'm a cat lover AND a dog lover. I played Postal2 without "using" cats. I'd be happy if Garrett could keep a cat as a pet at his place.

ultravioletu
05-28-2004, 04:45 AM
My Garrett will surely keep!!

Astalder
05-28-2004, 04:45 AM
Nice review... I didn't know you could climb walls that early... now I gotta go make sure I didn't miss something. I agree with just about all of it, tack on a minor annoyance in the rag doll physics.

This game is definitely better than the latest Hitman game (frankly that one was just bad)... it's at least on par with Splinter Cell 1 and 2. I won't put it ahead of SC until I get a bigger bite out of the story, they gotta entertain me!

drow21
05-28-2004, 05:32 AM
I agree with all of what sneaky said only:

1) getting stuck on some objects is kind of a problem. You can't slide easily by it, you literally have to go almost 90 degrees away from the object to get by.

2) I LIKE cats :)

3) Stand back or turn mouse away a bit to see if something has loot glint to avoid the blue glow interfering.

4) I find eye zoom extremely helpful! I tap it once when I really need to see what's going on and can see as if it were daytime. Helps in navigation and seeing things you might have missed. You can even walk or sneak while eye zoom is on! Very useful when your about to blackjack someone who walks into the darkness and can't see your target or when your club's raised.

5) I agree that they could have at least hightlighted where you generally are on the map. It's really difficult to tell where the heck you are at times.

Great game and havin' fun!

BrokenArts
05-28-2004, 06:05 AM
Yeah, they could of done the highlighting on the maps, now what fun is that? Find your way through yourself. This will make the game last longer. :)

Tybalt
05-28-2004, 06:19 AM
Possibly my favorite improvement of Thief 2 over Thief 1 was the ability to annotate the map, and now they've discarded that as well haven't they? That's poor.

Karnie
05-28-2004, 09:07 AM
I generally agree with just about everything you said, again with the exception that you can ALSO kill cats in Postal2.... =) as well as dogs...

That having been said, you left out one of the better improvements of the game... the bartering system! You now can sell off your loot and pick up some extra thieving goodies (more arrows, health, bombs, etc.) That was one thing that always bothered me about the previous games, there was no real incentive to steal loot other than to just have a big number at the end of the game. It's not as advances as, say, Morrowind, but still a huge improvement over previous games.

SneakyEerok
05-28-2004, 01:20 PM
ah, I agree...the barter system is tres cool! Good point (although at the time I wrote my first impressions I hadn't made it that far).

The City in general (now that I've experienced it) works really well. Although it might possibly be the smallest, least populated, most cramped city ever rendered in a game :) (to be fair...it is night...so the rationale for small populace is solid) it still works for me!

For Thief 4 I would keep the City feature, expand on it, but also give Garrett a 'disguise' option that he can use if he just wants to go trek around the City incognito and not have to constantly duck City Watch. As it is, the City feels a bit like a mega-mission with no real end. It would be nice to have a break from the tension in between missions (if players wanted one).

Some more improvements over T1 & T2:

1. Noisemaker arrows are implemented much better.
2. Flasks of oil = :D To see a guard come running around a corner where you have strategically placed an oil slick, flail his arms and flop to the ground...priceless!
3. Flashbombs also better implemented (whee! I'm smart enough to close my eyes now before they explode so I don't blind myself)
4. More freedom to interact realistically with the world. By this I'm primarily talking about situations where restrictions with the game geometry smack you in the head and remind you your playing a computer game. Things like not being able to jump over a waist high balcony ledge, move game objects that had not been specifically scripted to move, etc. These are things that frustrated me frequently in T1 & T2. They still exist in T3 but are much less frequent and more minor in nature.

My favorite Thief:DS moment so far- In the Hammer Church went out onto a balcony in the inner courtyard, was able to hop over it onto a ledge and stalk silently above the guard below (my light gem was blazing bright...I prayed no other guards were around). Switched to 3rd person view and watched me in all my Thiefly glory creep along the ledge. Wow. Fun stuff.

darrincates
05-28-2004, 05:20 PM
I miss the scouting orb . . . is there one?

SneakyEerok
05-28-2004, 08:06 PM
If you don't object to the break in realism, you can just use 3rd person view to pan around.

Karnie
05-28-2004, 10:13 PM
The one thing I WAS disappointed that they took out were the rope arrows, those were the BEST! I guess they figured they'd replace them with the gloves, but in my opinion the arrows were much cooler.

riggs58
05-28-2004, 10:16 PM
Actually, alot of features from the earlier games just wouldn't work right with this supposedly next-generation engine :rolleyes:

xarax
05-29-2004, 07:24 AM
Here are my thoughts (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83291&page=2#post1038197).