GameSpy Review

[Majnun]

Like it says...GameSpy review:

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/thief-deadly-shadows/518035p1.html

There is at least one spoiler that I remember.

If ya don't want to see any spoilers they gave it a 4 out of 5 stars. He said it was a great game overall. But the graphics sucked (I'm still playing Thief 2 fan missions so that's not gonna be a problem) and the loading zones (xbox...cough) suck. Oh, and he also said the free-roaming City zones were a good idea that became no fun since he quickly ruined faction and the streets were full of guards,etc all hunting him (I'm wondering if that happens if nobody SEES you being a criminal or maybe the reviewer just isn't a very good thief). Everything else he praised...most importantly the gameplay and AI (on harder difficulties).

'Bout what I expected (although the graphics I've seen in screenies and videos dont look too bad to me). Just hope you can turn off the blue glow everything seems to get when you target it...

[tealsmith]

I read it and don't understand his beef with the graphics. From what I've seen, they look incredible, and a lot of the previews I've read have mentioned them as high point as well.

[HOC]

that kinda sucks about the faction system. hopefully it will matter if you're discreet about a looting spree or not. i also hope it's a bit more lenient when ya rob a particular faction, and not just some average citizen (which is probably why all factions came down on him. guess we'll see soon enough).

concerning the graphics...to each his own. i'm certain a number of people here could care less (myself included) about how intense the graphics are, as long as the game plays well. maybe this one reviewer is a bit too anal over technology's advances.

[van_HellSing PL]

Quite controversial... First of all, the bragging about the "ugliness" of the game - what the hell? Every preview I read stated that the game looks nice. Also, the author says that the framerate is choppy, when some week or two ago he said in his own preview that it was smooth!:confused:

What still bugs me though are the small levels and time freezing in the zones...

[Pint0 Xtreme]

I, for one, thought the gamespy review to be utterly worthless. All it did was criticize whole lot on the graphics, which most thief fans know make up for a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of value to any thief game.

I know not one person who thinks of "Amazing graphics" when it comes to Thief in general. Yet, the review kept on talking on and on and ON about graphics. Geez. And then they give like a small snippet on gameplay and stealth.

The review was not in-depth at all about the game and mentions way too little about "the city"'s faction system to take with any sort of weight.

One thing I am disappointed at though, are the load zones and the fact that there aren't any city top levels like the "Party" level in Thief 2.

[WNxScythe]

Well I do think graphics are important. Why? They increase immersion...

I'm suprised he complained about them though... from what I've seen they look quite good, not the best, but certainly good and better than plenty of FPS games on the market currently.

The loading zones are annoying tho :(

[BloodRiot]

The truth is graphics do matter nowadays, but the thief series has acustummed us to play with simple (mostly dark) graphics, but stunning sound, story and mood/feel.

The truth is... i dont find the T: DS graphics shabby at all.

Sound has been getting great reviews. So overall I think we're in for what we're used to get with thief. I'm replaying the series right now... and to be honest, im not worried im playing with graphics from the stone ages. The game rocks... period.

If T: DS follows the same tradition, which seems to be true at this point, I dont have anything to fear.

PS: The Trickster bought the farm and Basso got the girl... im currently workign the warehouses... I plan to finish Thief 2 right before i get my hands on Thief 3. ;) JUST WARMIN' UP ;)

[ultravioletu]

A good warmin'-up would be also Calendra's Legacy ...

[tealsmith]

Originally posted by BloodRiot

PS: The Trickster bought the farm

Completely off topic here, but just think about how great a farmer The Trickster would be (yes, I know you mean 'died', but bear with me). He has complete control of the land, and he could grow those jacksberries! Instant cash!

Oh, right, review.... AHEM.

As I mentioned earlier, I still don't see his beef with the graphics. He's positive on a lot of other things, but seems to point to the game not being what it could have been do to developing it on the XBOX as well (the XBOX review gave it a 3/5). Personally, I agree: If all resources had been used on the PC version, then after release it was PORTED to XBOX, we wouldn't have to deal with loading zones, and other annoying things created due to the limitations of Microsoft's console.

[Skanky Burns]

Then again, the Trickster has access to unlimited amounts of raw gold, so the whole farming venture is somewhat reduntant. ;)

[tealsmith]

OK, so I've been looking over the videos and screens for Thief 3, looking for the ugly. I can't find it. However, as if my opinion really counts for anything in the grand scheme of things, I've gathered several quotes from other T: DS previews:

Visually, Thief: Deadly Shadows is looking fantastic. Using a Dell XPS, 3 GHZ, 512 RAM machine with a 128 ATI Radeon 9800 all ran fairly smooth. The textures and lighting effects so far are most impressive –- especially when you get to alter the situation by dousing a torch and watching the change in scenery. I especially was intrigued when wandering the old stone mansions. The shadow lighting against the walls is super nice, almost makes you not want to distinguish the torches to pull off your job.

- Gamepro Preview

“Thief III will take advantage of Ion Storm's advanced game engine, with lip synching for every bit of character speech in the game…”

“While Thief III's advanced graphics engine helps the visuals look technically impressive, the game's distinct artistic vision and unique environments are what really make it stand out. We saw a few different environments in motion, and the use of colors, light, and shadows was always remarkable.”

- Gamespot Preview

“We just got ourselves a copy of the PC version of the game in today and decided to skulk around in some shadows for a while. The game, while still pre-beta, runs surprisingly well. The performance problems that we had with Deus Ex: Invisible War are non-existent. Whether this has to do with easier AI considerations, the fact that there aren't quite as many interactive objects with physical properties, or just that they've figured out the tricks to the engine, it works. It works well. And it works very, very prettily.”

- IGN Preview

“Already the graphics look impressive -- as with DX: Invisible War, every object in the game casts realtime shadows, and there's dynamic lighting to be found everywhere.”

- 1UP Preview


Now, this means:


[list=1]
All these previews are faulty and the people who did them are high
The graphics in the final version of the game are significantly different from the ones in the beta versions
The Gamespy reviewer was playuing on a really poor PC or...
The Gamespy reviewer is smoking something REALLY heavy.
[/list=1]

[Acronomic]

Hey, that's odd... the Gamepro review says that there's lip synching all the way... while the Gamespy review says there's none at all!? :confused:

[BloodRiot]

The Iraqui minister of information also said there were no americans in baghdad... and yet... who knows... maybe there wasn't!!!

maybe we should make a website www.welovethegamespythiefdarkshadowsreviewer.com ;p

so many foolsie questions...

someone must be taffin' around here.

(dont mind me...it's monday and work is over...im headin' home ;p)

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Originally posted by WNxScythe
Well I do think graphics are important. Why? They increase immersion...

I'm suprised he complained about them though... from what I've seen they look quite good, not the best, but certainly good and better than plenty of FPS games on the market currently.

The loading zones are annoying tho :(

Actually, I disagree. Right now, I'm playing Thief 1 and Thief 2 all over again for the fun of it. And given the really outdated graphics of those games, I STILL feel immersed, which is just a testament to Looking Glass' excellent sound and lighting abilities.

The fact that I feel immersed already tells me that top-notch graphics is unnecessary for this game to succeed.

[San_John]

It sounds like this reviewer went into the game with a bad attitude and just needed to let off a lot of steam about the graphics. Who knows, maybe he's going through a divorce or something really bad and just needs something to rip on.

Then there's the artistic design of the world. Even the worst graphics engine can be made up for with inspired artwork, texturing, and architecture. Alas, these too are conspicuously missing in Deadly Shadows. Whether the culprit was the graphics engine or that someone stole all the artistic talent at Ion Storm, Deadly Shadows' architecture bears a mind-numbing sameness, an oppressive concrete realism that makes one think of Soviet buildings at the height of the Cold War. I thought the original Thief games totally made up for the engine graphic capabilities with their artwork. From what I've seen, Thief--DS follows suit. I think I'll trust Digital Nightfall's review over this one--he said the atmosphere was great.

[chris20202]

From the end of the article:

"Reviewer System Specifications
Pentium 4 2.53 GHz, 1 GB RAM, Windows XP, DirectX 8.0, 128 MB GeForce4 Ti 4600 video card, SoundMax sound card, 16x DVD-ROM drive, 120 GB hard-disk space, Mouse, Keyboard."

[Quillan]

It sounds to me as if the reviewer had some technical issues with the game, and didn't recognize them as such. To use a specific example: lip synching. T: DS uses the same engine as DX: Invisible War. My copy of IW definitely does lip synch the conversations characters have, but it seems buggy. Occasionally when a rendered conversation will start between two characters, one character won't lip synch. The conversation will switch to the other character, who will lip synch, and then when it switches back to the first, he/she will lip synch from that point on. I think the reviewer had something like that going on. A problem with the video card could screw up lip synching, textures, rendering, and all sorts of other visual bells and whistles. I want to see what other reviewers have to say about the final version, but my initial feeling is the GameSpy review is based upon a flawed playtest, and therefore isn't reliable.

[Skull Gun]

The review is fair enough, the graphics do look a bit dated by today's standards as the Deus Ex IW engine itself is a bit blocky and bland looking.

I will buy for the game-play, though I have one major gripe; the small environments and loading times. I can't believe Ion Storm have done this, they received more than enough crits about the same flaw with Deus Ex IW, do they even listen to their fans? Why they cannot tailor a game for the individual systems is beyond me. Valve, Crytek and Id are creating their excellent PC games (Farcry, Half-life 2 and Doom 3) for the Xbox too but have said they're working from the ground up, admitting that a PC has strengths the Xbox doesn't, optimising for the Xbox. If Ion Storm keep standing by their "one size fits all" laziness we'll be playing console games on a PC for a long time. Do us all a favour and make for PC first THEN optimise for Xbox

[dipdipdip]

If they keep with the "one size fits all" (good way of putting it) trash, I can't imagine our obstinate friends at Ion Storm will be around for very long, as they're most certainly playing with fire dealing with much respected franchises in such a way as they are.

(I still expect to like this game)

[Tergiver]

Originally posted by Majnun
Oh, and he also said the free-roaming City zones were a good idea that became no fun since he quickly ruined faction and the streets were full of guards,etc all hunting him (I'm wondering if that happens if nobody SEES you being a criminal or maybe the reviewer just isn't a very good thief).
I wondered the same thing myself. I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I bring it home :)

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Skull Gun
Do us all a favour and make for PC first THEN optimise for Xbox
The Xbox is expected to sell much much more than PC, so if you insist on games being developed for one system first and then optimised for another system can you guess which version would be getting the subpar treatment?

[Majnun]

Well, the best thing I've read so far was the line in the Gamespy review of the x-box version of T-DS.

He says:

I couldn't help feeling that it was a PC game slapped on a console.

:):):):)

That made me smile largely. That's right Mr. Reviewer...now you know what most PC gamers felt like with DX-IW...and plenty of other half-assed console ports.

And in the 2nd half of the latest IGN interview when they asked Warren Spector about system requirements he said:

We don't make games for low-end machines.

He couldn't remember the actual system req's. But that pretty much tells me this game was designed with high end PCs in mind primarily. The x-box version will be great too I'm sure and if I only had an x-box I'd get it for that.

Happy thieving taffers. 2 (maybe only 1) more days.

[mgeorge]

It seems to me that a lot of the time Gamespy writes reviews that contradict themselfs. This guy said that the game looked ugly, was linear, poor level design, had "waxy" looking NPC's and choppy graphics, (which doesn't hinder gameplay, what does that mean??). He also calls it an "action" game, when comparing it to other FPS titles out there today. Action game? Thief? He then gives it four out of five stars. It seems like it would merit more like three out of five (based on the review), but perhaps that's not such a bad thing as he did give the gameplay kudos. I personally don't care so much about the graphics. I'm playing through Metal Age right now and have been pleasantly surprised at how good the graphics are in a game that's over three years old. Don't remember them being this good when I first played it. Anyway, I'm gonna wait to hear some forum members opinions, and then make up my mind about buying it. It took me over two months (and a couple of upgrades), to get DE IW to even play on my comp and I really don't want to go through that again. Still not sure if I trust Eidos yet.

[Ogami Itto]

I just read the Xbox review, and the framerate stuff worries me. (although it contradicts what I have read elsewhere from people who saw/played it.)

Other than that, I think that its probably just not the reviewers type of game. He mentions that he had to reload constantly (apparently due to death) and that the game is repetitive in that you sneak, knock out all the guards in room, sneak, knock out all guards, sneak...
This reminds me of the reviews of the Hitman games where people complained that you just went from room to room gunning people down. The fun of the games comes from finding other ways to go about things.

It seems like the guy just went around knocking out everyone, and got killed often in his attempts to knock out everyone. (small SPOILER!!!!!! WATCH YOUR STEP!!!!!) .......................................................... He even mentions how he finds one level clever because it forces you to sneak past enemies rather than clubbing them. :rolleyes:

[ultravioletu]

I agree, ghosting is a funny bussiness. Or at least, trying to ghost as much as possible.

I remember after playing the Shoalsgate for the first time (on Expert, when you must stealth), I tried to finish the Ambush in the same way. Not intentionally!! I simply forgot theat the 'don't knock' objective was not valid anymore. And after the n-th failed attempt to jump in my room without alerting the guards, I found myself realizing: "what the hell! you can do a little blackjack here, taffer!".

[spectecjr]

Originally posted by Majnun

That made me smile largely. That's right Mr. Reviewer...now you know what most PC gamers felt like with DX-IW...and plenty of other half-assed console ports.

I'm sorry.. DX-IW was a half-assed console port? I owned the XBOX version... I thought it was a half-assed PC port (like most of the Bethesda games).

They certainly didn't do a good job of the XBOX version. If the PC version sucks as well, then perhaps it's not that they're doing half-assed XBOX ports, but that they're doing a half-assed job, period.

What I want to know is why XBOX developers - apparently stuck in the PC development mindset - seem to have such a hard time getting their heads around synchronizing to the frame flyback sync. It's not difficult: only swap buffers when the display is not being updated. The API does it for you in fact. It's one flag.

[TheBoss]

Wait a sec… he tested the game using an Geforce4 4600!! You cant do directx9 functions on that card and the game uses pixel shaders on all surfaces which Geforce 4 cant run at v2.0 but only v1.0 which gives considerable lower quality on textures and characters. I think I understand why he complained so much about the gfx since it seems he didn’t know his hardware couldn’t display (no DX9, PS, 2.0+) it normally as designed or he’d make a note about it.

[Quillan]

The engine only uses Pixel Shader 1.1, so a DX9 card wouldn't help in that regard. The main thing you would have would be more power and a higher fillrate as a result.

[TheBoss]

Ehmm game engine uses Pixel shader 2.0 but will be backwards compatable with PS 1.1 sacrifising quality and this is a DirectX9 game as DeusEx 2 is.