Limitations on inventory size

[Emultra]

I think it would be much more professional if you were limited in the number of arms you could carry. Having an Uzi, an MP5, a sawn-off, 6 different pistols, a bottle of anaesthetic, a knife and the other equipment all concealed is too unrealistic. The weapons larger than pistols shouldn't be allowed to be put underneath a tuxedo either. In a Russian soldier's robe, a janitor's bag or packed between some towels (hint-hint ideas for IO), yes, but not otherwise.

This would make it so that you'd have to be more careful when choosing your arsenal. You could have, say, three pistols, the fibre wire and the anaesthetic concealed with the regular suit on. Sure, you could put a sawn-off behind your tie, but people would wonder whatever the heck happened to your pecs.

I like the Hitman games very much, but it just seems to over the top to carry so many large weapons on a single character. I don't know about you all, but I want to be a little limited when it comes to these sort of things. The expert assassin shouldn't have to use 500 rounds of 9mm and six different weapons to shoot them with even if it's fun to go back to the earlier levels with that late-game minigun. :)

I'm looking forward to Contracts. I very much like the idea of the setting of the game.

[IronChitlin]

I agree completely, any weapon larger than a pistol should have to be carried by hand, though you can conceal them like the suitcase sniper rifle, the flower box with the shotgun, etc. etc.

I think limiting the number of pistols would be great, you shouldnt be able to carry three differant knives, fiber wire, anaesthetic, binoculars, 12 different pistols, a sawn off and a MP5 all under that suit, I think maybe one set of dual pistols(Ballers, Golden Desert Eagles), and maybe one more in the small of his back, he may be able to fit one more pistol under that suit.

I think limitations are a good thing, the idea is to be stealthy and undetectable, not to carry a militia's weapons supply under your suit.

[TaN00Ki]

IO didn't mean to make the game a simulation


u can shoot a guy in head and/or chest and u can still wear the guy clothes even with bullet-holes and blood on it

[yanxi]

But I mean come on, it is a good idea, but I believe, even in H2 you couldn't carry a M4 or a SMG under your suit, I believe the only thing that can FIT into the suit are handguns and stuff, nothing big except for the Shawn-off shot gun........ But if you look at the second trailer, you see 47 with the suite case for sniper rifle, and hidding a SP12 in the flowers, so I think IoI have for sure imporved something about that.....

[Emultra]

The SMG (MP5) and Uzi can both be concealed (at the same time) together with a truckload of pistols and a sawn-off.

[TaN00Ki]

Emultra: u need to understand what u read before answering anything; in this topic and few other and the boards...

i said and confirm that eidos didn't want the game to be too realistic and in no way a real life "hitman simulation"


therefore the ennemmy won't notice your bloody/broken clothes and u can basically conceal all guns u find

[axel]

" you shouldnt be able to carry three differant knives, fiber wire, anaesthetic, binoculars, 12 different pistols, a sawn off and a MP5 all under that suit"

I know,err..."someone",who works for the DEA and carries evreyday under his clothes 4 knives,3 pistols and some other things like lockpicking tools &Co...you can always find a way to conceal things;)

"I think maybe one set of dual pistols(Ballers, Golden Desert Eagles)"

concerning dual pistols,I think you shouldn't be able to carry more than one set at the same time...those kind of pistols are too big !:)

there must be some limitations about the size rather than the type of weapon...you can always hide 5 pocket-revolver,but not 5 pistols like DE's (one DE is already hard to carry concealed,so 2...)

Axel

[Capone]

didnt the directions for hitman:codename 47 say that you could only carry 6 pistols? ive had like a berreta for every person in a level before

and i like desert eagles, but i think the dual gold deagles are gona make the ballers look bad :(

[Emultra]

Well, I just think that if you are going to be an undercover/hidden hitman, you shouldn't be able to carry so heavy a load and still look like your suit fits perfectly fine. Sure, I could simulate it by selecting fewer weapons and refusing to put large SMG's and sawn-off's inside the jacket, but I'd know that if I wanted to I could carry three SEAL's arsenal's worth of hardware.
Oh well...

Axel, yes, those pistols are big. I could agree to somewhat hiding a MAC-11 or a Micro Uzi, but an MP5? Plus two roughly equal-sized weapons?

Tan00Ki, ok. The game will be great anyway. :)

But maybe different limitations based on difficulty level? Easy could have it like it is in Silent Assassin, Normal (or it's final name) could have it so that you can't hide SMG's but you can hide DE's, Hardballers and such at the same time and Professional could have it so that the more stuff you carry, the more 'robotic' your suit looks like, and if a guard gets close enough he might see a bump from a larger pistol?

[Cutter-John]

To get a good idea of how many guns a person can actually hide in a set of clothes, watch Bowling for Columbine.

Any way I like the idea of limiting the number of guns a person can carry; I usually only take about one pistol or sub-machine gun on an average level in H2. It just makes me feel "cooler."

[The Warlock]

I think that they should use an inventory slots system, like in Deus Ex. A tiny pistol (like a Derringer) or a light item, like a knife, fiber wire, lockpicks, binocs, NVG, etc., would take half a slot. A normal pistol (like a Berretta 92 or single AMT Hardballer) or slightly larger item (like a brick of C4) would take one slot. A large pistol (like a single Desert Eagle) or set of two medium-sized pistols (i.e. Hardballers) would take two slots. A small submachinegun (such as a single MAC-10), pair of Desert Eagles, or a compact shotgun would take three slots. A large submachine gun (such as an MP5, either silenced or not), pair of MAC-10s, or assault carbine (M4, AKS-74U) would take four slots. Anything bigger cannot be concealed. You have five slots for inventory and can start a level carrying a gun in your hands or an R92 in a briefcase in addition to the weapons in your tux.

It would also be very nice to have a (rare) gun that could act as a sniper's weapon but be concealed. Maybe a single-shot Lone Eagle or something, taking three slots.

[Bullet-Tooth Limey]

The problem with that sort of inventory, though, is that it slows the game down. In the first two games, the inventory distracted you some, but you could still move around and such. With the DX-style, you have to stop actually playing to sort it out, which slows the game down and breaks pace. One of my favorite things is to walk out of the restroom and the Cheung-Chow Fish Restaurant switching between my shotgun and my Berettas while all the action is still going on.

[The Warlock]

Originally posted by Bullet-Tooth Limey
The problem with that sort of inventory, though, is that it slows the game down. In the first two games, the inventory distracted you some, but you could still move around and such. With the DX-style, you have to stop actually playing to sort it out, which slows the game down and breaks pace. One of my favorite things is to walk out of the restroom and the Cheung-Chow Fish Restaurant switching between my shotgun and my Berettas while all the action is still going on.

The reason that the inventory slowed the game down in Deus Ex is because it was so big. It had 36 slots, this would have 5. It would be easy to cycle through the entire thing with the mousewheel or even bind some items to some number keys (which whas what prevented the inventory from stopping the game in DX). The only time you would ever really need to mess around with it is when loading up, just before a mission.

[axel]

Originally posted by Emultra

Axel, yes, those pistols are big. I could agree to somewhat hiding a MAC-11 or a Micro Uzi, but an MP5? Plus two roughly equal-sized weapons?



well,a MP5 can be hide,for instance in your back...some holster especially designed for concealing weapons have been made;)

and besides,47 is also able to made some modifications on a hoslter...what does 47 when he is not killing someone ? training,and...perhaps thinking about how to hide efficiently a weapon:)

concerning the idea of slots and inventory...why not,but I suggest something more logical : the WEIGHT

according to the difficulty level,the player would be allowed to carry object whose weight don't exceed a total,for exemple in EASY you shouldn't be allowed to exceed 30 Kgs of weapons,20 kgs in Expert,and 10 in Professionnal...that could be good I think

Axel

[Emultra]

I like that idea, with a modification: you can carry the weight up to that point with more or less no adverse effects. However, past that point, the more you carry, the more encumbered you will be and the more suspicious your looks will be. What do you think about that?

[Mr.Nash]

well Eidos could always dress someone up as 47 and see how many guns they could hide on him :)

But a realistic way to do it would be;
swinging chest holser(think cop shows): 2 pistols
one side/back holster: one smg
Inside coat pocket: chlorophorm, one knife, fibre wire
two waist holsters: 2 pistols
2 thigh/back holsters: 2 pistols

Allowing for 6 pistols, an smg, chlorophorm, knife and fibre wire.

This way it's relatively realistic, and we dont have *too* many weapons... we could even cut the thigh/back holsters.

I don't think the guns are what makes it seem unrealistic to not spot, but where does 47 keep the stinkin ammo?!?!

assuming he carries:
150 SMG rounds: 5 clips
35 baller rounds(per baller): 10 clips
85 9mm berreta clips (17 bullets per clip): 5 clips

If 47 walks into a mission with these 3 guns, and the listed amounts of ammo (and I've gone in with far more) he would have to conceal the mp5, ballers and a 9mm berretta. Plus the 20 clips he needs for ammo...

I can see with the pistols how he could have one cip in the gun, but doing htat with an mp5 would make the gun much bulkier.

[Emultra]

If you by SMG mean the likes of Micro-Uzi or Mac-11, then yes.

[Mr.Nash]

well if you look at lengths of the guns (in inches);

~~Pistols~~
Beretta 92 = 8.54
Desert Eagle = 10.25
AMT Hardballer = 8.5

~~SMGs~~
H&K MP5k = 12.67
H&K MP5SD = 24.0
Uzi = 25.2 (stock extended) 17.3 (stock retracted)
Mini-Uzi = 18.75 (stock extended) 11.25 (stock retracted)
Micro-Uzi = 14.32 (stock extended) 7.8 (stock retracted)

[Alexlovesguns]

Im all for realism but.. lets face it, if we cant carry a whole bunch of guns we wont use most of the guns in game. I mean usual loadout is a sd beretta, fiber wire, cloroform and if things turn nasty the dual ballers to clear the way. Now i already found most of the gear in H2 quite useless like the ninja sword and ax amongst many others, but im a colector and i wouldnt like to throw away a good weapon so i could keep a useless shotgun or golf club and in the last mission in H2 it was cool to run to the shed and pick a whole bunch of pistols, smg and M60 and to throw them out when they didnt have any ammo left.
Ill problably end up playing in a realistic way meaning if cover is blown M60 and brutal force will make things easy, sometimes doing things the right way was very frustrating and much more dificult than blasting away. i dont like the word limitations , if some dont want to carry many guns so be it, if the gameplay requires stealth and low profile it wont do much diference what a player carries cause he will end up using the fiber wire and the sd beretta anyway ;) .

[TaN00Ki]

Originally posted by Emultra

Tan00Ki, ok. The game will be great anyway. :)


yes, can't wait another month for it !!!!!!!!!!!!

[axel]

Originally posted by Emultra
I like that idea, with a modification: you can carry the weight up to that point with more or less no adverse effects. However, past that point, the more you carry, the more encumbered you will be and the more suspicious your looks will be. What do you think about that?

it's a good idea,I think :)

concerning the ammunitions,I suggest that their weight would be included: clip full of ammos are considered to have their weight count in grammes (50 gr,20gr,etc...)

" i dont like the word limitations , if some dont want to carry many guns so be it, if the gameplay requires stealth and low profile it wont do much diference what a player carries cause he will end up using the fiber wire and the sd beretta anyway "

well,I suggest that the weight limitation in Normal mode should be ignored,so...only in Expert and Professionnal;)

"two waist holsters: 2 pistols
2 thigh/back holsters: 2 pistols "

lol,why not,but in that case 47 won't be able to run anymore:D

Axel

[Emultra]

These are my guns, they're both for fun. :D

Anyway, I second what you said, axel. For Normal (or Easy as it seems they'll be calling it now) a little arcade style fits nicely but for harder settings it should be all about outsmarting and outmaneuvering your opponents. That also mitigates the feeling of limitation, as you can then choose your style without setting it in stone for everyone else.

Mr.Nash, yeah. As one can see there, a Micro-Uzi is clearly compact (which it was made for), being even shorter than the semi-autos. Makes sense. The Russian 5.45 (designated the 5.45 in the menu, but .54 pistol ingame...I don't think so) in Silent Assassin would be an example of an extra concealable pistol compared to the Beretta (full-sized) or Deagle (big 'n brawling). That would also give it a purpose, since now it's just an inaccurate, weak pistol with less magazine capacity than the Beretta. It's still cool, but it deserves a real advantage for its small size.

[Mr.Nash]

well for thigh holders I meant outside of the leg... sorry about the misunderstanding :)

Another little thing about 47’s hiding stuff in his wardrobe… The Berretta 92 is 8.54 inches long. Add the silencer onto that, which should be from ¾ to the full length of the gun itself, and the beretta 92 has become a little larger then a micro-uzi with the stock extended.

You’ll note that I also added the length of the Mp-5k in those stats. Another question this issue raises, is; Why doesn’t 47 use smaller, more effective guns?

Sorry to you all if I seem to be getting to literal or trying to make things too ‘realistic’ etc.. but I have an idea that goes along with it..

Why not limit the things you can conceal to SMGs and Pistols, but limit them to the length of the gun you are trying to hide? 47 might be able to hide the mp-5, but can he stuff his ballers in there too?

[axel]

"The Russian 5.45 (designated the 5.45 in the menu, but .54 pistol ingame...I don't think so)"

that pistol,created by the Toula's Arsenal for KGB agents is in a special caliber,5.45.it has been created in order to have a small,concealable pistol that can be able to go through body armors (only LBA's,I suppose).

however,it is not a silenced weapon,and this pistol is quite ancient...a new silenced pistol has been made since this one,a pistol that doesn't make any noise when you shoot,without having a silencer on the barrel :eek:
(thanks to a new caliber)

Russian engineers show once again their ability to create amazing and ultra-efficient weapons:)

by the way,Beretta has made small-sized versions of the 92F ;) (the Cougar 8000 F)


"well for thigh holders I meant outside of the leg... sorry about the misunderstanding"

there wasn't a misunderstanding: to carry pistols on some points of the human body modificates your center of gravity,making some movements more difficult to make...;)

having two pistols in thigh holsters make the run harder,mostly because of the pistols' weight

Axel

[Emultra]

Axel, you mean the "gas lock" one, where the gas is kept locked inside the cartridge after fire by a piston which also pushes the bullet out? Yeah, that'd be nice to have. Weak, but compact and discreet.

I think you should be able to hide weapons in accessories of suits, if you know what I mean. For example, in Anathema (Silent Assassin) you can, as you know if you've played it, take a flower delivery guy's suit with a bouquette of flowers to go with it if you want to. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to hide a pistol (a small one like the 5.45, preferably) at the bottom of it? Put it down there and cover it with the flowers.

I don't know why they named it .54 (heavier than DE .50 in that small a pistol...) ingame but I guess it was a typo.

[axel]

no,not the "gas lock" one,the new pistol using the new caliber .9 mm Silent;)

"...take a flower delivery guy's suit with a bouquette of flowers to go with it if you want to. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to hide a pistol (a small one like the 5.45, preferably) at the bottom of it? Put it down there and cover it with the flowers. "

I wish hundred of times it would be possible to do that...imagin 47,walking quietly the bouquet in hand,having concealed in a silenced Beretta...:) :)

as it's impossible,the only thing I do when I 'm playing Anathema is taking the flowers,killing every guard and whiteness in the villa,and leaving the flowers near the mafioso's corpse,a kind of signature...lol:D

concerning the fact Io's named the 5.45 pistol ".54",I agree:it must be a typo;)

Axel

[Emultra]

.9 mm? As in 0.9mm? Hmm...would you even feel that? :p
Anyway, when you have the flowers in your left hand and fire a pistol in your right, Hitman brings the flowers lined up with the pistol. I first thought he used them to cover it.

[Alexlovesguns]

Originally posted by axel
I wish hundred of times it would be possible to do that...imagin 47,walking quietly the bouquet in hand,having concealed in a silenced Beretta...:) :)

I think the idea of walking inside the villa unarmed while the grocery man puts our weapons inside without even knowing it was way cooler, and when we enter the italian chick comes answering the door and leaves the flowers in the boss's desk, if we could put some poison type gas or something like that in the flowers it would be way cooler, prob was if we didnt kill the delivery guy he would run around naked and would alert the guards, so it wasnt very easy to get SA rating playing in the smartest, stealthy way:( , we need to tide our victims with rope or tape, that would be good.

[Mr.Nash]

The best additions to *any* hitman level: Duct tape and Plastic Wrap.

[Alexlovesguns]

Originally posted by Mr.Nash
The best additions to *any* hitman level: Duct tape and Plastic Wrap.
Duct tape definetly but plastic wrap would problably sufocate our victims and... yes, sounds good too:D .

[Emultra]

Originally posted by Alexlovesguns
I think the idea of walking inside the villa unarmed while the grocery man puts our weapons inside without even knowing it was way cooler, and when we enter the italian chick comes answering the door and leaves the flowers in the boss's desk...
Yes, maybe one could pour some of the anaesthetic from the bottle onto the flowers. When the boss smells them, he falls asleep...

[axel]

".9 mm? As in 0.9mm? Hmm...would you even feel that?"

lol ok,typo mistake;)

Axel

[Stonez]

Hey, just be glad it's not like Quake (1 BIG melee, 1 pistol, 1 smg, 1 laser rifle, 1 plasma rifle, 1 shotgun, 1 machine gun, 1 rocket launcher, 1 sniper... etc.) lol...

[Robert Rath]

A realistic way to carry items would be nice, similar to the "MANHUNT" game. Also, a sling would be good to have with some of weapons. Instead of dropping the primary weapon, put it across your back, chest, etc., and pick up another. Of course weight would be a factor. Also, a limited amount of magaszines (a realistic limit) would be nice.

[Emultra]

I agree. Especially on sniper rifles and assault rifles, a sling wouldn't only be nice, it would be logical.