This is Getting Stupid

[lacoha]

Ive been in contact with Eidos Tech Support...and they must know there are MAJOR issues to be dealt with. There is no reason why someone like myself with an up-to-date system should be having these kind of problems. I suggest that everyone email Eidos Tech support and let them know how seriously messed up this game is....

Killer is, the game does kick ass, but playing at 640x480 with a frame rate so jerky it makes me sick, and crashes as regular as unleaded...really sucks.

EMAIL THEM...let 'em know. Cause guess what, they are gamers too!:)


PS. THIS thread is now dedicated to MR. BLue and his great MLK/EIDOS quote.

[Sotos]

Originally posted by lacoha
Ive been in contact with Eidos Tech Support...and they must know there are MAJOR issues to be dealt with. There is no reason why someone like myself with an up-to-date system should be having these kind of problems. I suggest that everyone email Eidos Tech support and let them know how seriously messed up this game is....

Killer is, the game does kick ass, but playing at 640x480 with a frame rate so jerky it makes me sick, and crashes as regular as unleaded...really sucks.

EMAIL THEM...let 'em know. Cause guess what, they are gamers too!:)

Yes these is a SHAME for a gaming company (especcally ION STORM)
I am really angry especially with ION STORM and less with EIDOS

Until they release a patch try to use Windows 2000 compatibility mode if you have WIN XP
It fixes the crash problems as i heard and gives a little smoother perfromance

[lacoha]

tried that...minimal performance boost....crashes more managable (ive mastered the art of getting the game to "come back to life". But still i want to scream.

[lacoha]

I feel like like they (the tech support people) should make you take a little test before they give you any answers......

LIKE I DONT HAVE CURRENT DRIVERS!!!!

its so frustrating.....chances are most of us are on par copmuter-knowledge wise with most of these tech support guys.

hell, all i do is play PC games....and if im not playing them, im waiting impatiently for the next one.

MR. EIDOS....TEAR DOWN THESE BUGS!

(that was a crappy adaptation of a great JFK quote) :rolleyes:

[Mister Blue]

Sorry to be pedantic, but that was Ronald Reagan, not JFK. :)

[lacoha]

OH dont i feel like the horses ass.....ICH BIN EIN BERLINER....thats JFK.

thanks for the correction...its 5 am.....im drunk, lifes good, but a bit blury!

[Mister Blue]

lol...but to stick with JFK quotes..."ask not what software developers can do for gamers, but what gamers can do for software developers"...or for Ronnie, something about the "Evil Empire" ;)

[lacoha]

...that was great. how about this one:

"that's one step back for Gamers , one giant leap back for EIDOS."

or maybe....

"Read my lips.....No New Glitches!"

or perhaps...

"mmmmmmm......Patches."

that last one is a Homer Simpson adaptation.




:D

[lacoha]

hell the JFK one could go a little like this...

"ICH BIN EIN CRAPPYGAMEPROGRAMMER!"

im done.

[Mister Blue]

hehe...what about this...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty,the pursuit of Happiness, and the ability to purchase instantly playable PC games without having to tweak the hell out of .ini files and/or their computer systems...:D

[lacoha]

im dying here.....that was the winner....no further entries in this catagory.

Damn youre good.

KUDOS!!

[Mister Blue]

aww thx...now where do I collect my (no-need-to-tweak) prize? :)

[lacoha]

hell if i know....lord knows best buy isnt going to give me my money back.


Im thinking class action suit.


whos with me!!

[Mister Blue]

count me in...maybe Congress should also be lobbied to make my what I wrote the XXVIIIth Amendment to the Constitution...plus we could get a WTO ruling and a UN resolution about it...it's time to get serious! :)

[Mister Blue]

hey, thanks lacoha for the dedication :)...but you're gonna hate me cuz I'm gonna be pedantic again...that wasn't MLK, it was the Declaration of Independence ;)...but MLK can work..."I have a dream...(you can guess the rest :) )"...or,"playing at last, playing at last, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, I'm playing at last!" :D

[thegrommit]

Originally posted by Mister Blue
hehe...what about this...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty,the pursuit of Happiness, and the ability to purchase instantly playable PC games without having to tweak the hell out of .ini files and/or their computer systems...:D

In other words, buy an X-Box. No cutting edge PC game has ever run smoothly out of the box. The most recent example is Halo. If you've been gaming for a while, then you should know better - don't buy until the first patch comes out. And often not even then.

[PrimePaladin]

Nah, that's not entirely true, most games run fine, without any tweaking.

But I must admit that all the box-ports are....let's just say, not very good...

[thegrommit]

Originally posted by PrimePaladin
Nah, that's not entirely true, most games run fine, without any tweaking.



So you've played most PC games out there? Remind me, how many patches were released for the original DX? How many for UT2003? How many for Raven Shield? How many for CoD? Notice that none of those were X-Box ports.

[Eleazar]

Yes, I agree it is outrageous. It is sad when someone has to post a tweak guide just to get the game working at a playable fps. Emailing them will not be as effective, if we did a poll. A poll would be a very easy way everyone could participate without asking them to have to email. It would be anonymous as well. This would give you the greatest desired respons from the viewers. Maybe it could even be Stickied so everyone could participate. I don't know if the admin's would sticky somehting incriminating the company though. It would be a nice jester though, showing they care about our voice. Of course one problem arises, is that we would not catch everyone. There are still plenty of people that are only on the Ionstorm forums. Maybe someone could post a link to the poll there for everyone. Lets all agree on a decision to voice our opinions, then we will have the greatest effect.

[PrimePaladin]

Originally posted by PrimePaladin
Nah, that's not entirely true, most games run fine, without any tweaking.



So you've played most PC games out there? Remind me, how many patches were released for the original DX? How many for UT2003? How many for Raven Shield? How many for CoD? Notice that none of those were X-Box ports.


Well, Lucky me then, I musta picked the right games to play, because only halo gave me any trouble...
But I must say I don't keep track of all the patches I downloaded...

[thegrommit]

Originally posted by PrimePaladin
Well, Lucky me then, I musta picked the right games to play, because only halo gave me any trouble...


How many games have you played then? Which ones were they? The last unpatched game I played was back in 2001 (Alice) - what was yours?

I don't mean to bag on you, but the variations in PC hardware make it impossible for any developer to make the game work for everyone first time out. Just look at the number of purported "solutions" people have posted here - only to be followed by a litany of "doesn't work for me".

[Mister Blue]

Originally posted by thegrommit
In other words, buy an X-Box. No cutting edge PC game has ever run smoothly out of the box. The most recent example is Halo. If you've been gaming for a while, then you should know better - don't buy until the first patch comes out. And often not even then.

My post was merely a humorous aside about what SHOULD happen, not what DOES happen. That said though, the ONLY games out of the 20 or so that I've bought which WEREN'T playable straight out of the box have been, wait for it, the Deus Ex series! I count this series as my favorite, which is precisely why the playability issues are so annoying. Most other games I've played have eventually been patched, but none of them required any of the fiddling needed to get the Deus Ex games to run at an acceptable performance level.

[thegrommit]

Originally posted by Mister Blue
Most other games I've played have eventually been patched, but none of them required any of the fiddling needed to get the Deus Ex games to run at an acceptable performance level.

No offence (unless you want some), but Ion obviously disagreed with you:

http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/deusex/deusexpatch1014f.txt

Don't project your good luck on everyone else :)

[Mister Blue]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The main problem I had with DX1, like most people I think, was the inability to play it under Open GL, at a time when Direct 3D cards weren't developed to the extent they are today (I was using 2 x Voodoo 2 in SLI mode, total 16MB video RAM, and D3D was poor on this card). This meant a lot of messing around before a patch came out IIRC, hence my point above.

In any case, this is a silly argument we're having here. Let's stop it. :)

[thegrommit]

Originally posted by Mister Blue
[B]I'm not sure what you mean by this. The main problem I had with DX1, like most people I think, was the inability to play it under Open GL, at a time when Direct 3D cards weren't developed to the extent they are today (I was using 2 x Voodoo 2 in SLI mode, total 16MB video RAM, and D3D was poor on this card). This meant a lot of messing around before a patch came out IIRC, hence my point above.


Here's where the projection bit comes in. D3D support on 3dfx cards was always suspect (and arguably the death of them). OpenGL support wasn't much better (remember the miniGL?).

However, DX1 came out in June 2000. While the Geforce series were relatively new, the TNT2 had been out for over a year with solid OpenGL and Direct3D support (I played Q3 and UT on one). People with those cards had a different set of issues to contend with from you - ones which are addressed in the patch readme. :)


In any case, this is a silly argument we're having here. Let's stop it. :)

Well, the facts speak for themselves ;)

[Soundboy]

I would have to agree with Mister Blue on the fact that I don't feel most games are unplayable out of the box. This is actually the first one I can remember in a long while being UNPLAYABLE out of the box. Now, I have downloaded a ton of patches to fix minor problems in a bunch of games, but they were all playable out of the box. This one simply isn't!

[Mister Blue]

This seems to be an argument about whether whose experience somehow counts as general experience, which is why I think it's a silly argument when conducted on these terms. Therefore the terms need to be recast...

Grommit says, in his experience, more games have serious issues out of the box (and before the first patch comes out) than I realize. I (and anyone else who agrees with me) say I haven't come across such issues in anywhere near the amount of games he alludes to.

Grommit, if that's been your experience, that's fine. I'm not trying to "project my good luck" on to you. But I would bet anything that there is a large enough number of people whose experience matches mine, hence making the issue with the Deus Ex series (or even just DX IW) something which counts as a problem relative to other games.

Anyway, wouldn't you think this regardless? I mean, who can honestly say that DXIW, in its current state, is a product that should have gone anywhere near the marketplace? (as a PC game at least. I can't speak for the X-box one). This is what the issue boils down to, no?

[K^2]

Originally posted by Mister Blue
I mean, who can honestly say that DXIW, in its current state, is a product that should have gone anywhere near the marketplace?
We all bought it. As far as marketing goes that is the measure of how good the game was. And even though I don't have the actual numbers of how well it sold, I am sure it is a lot better than that of some games out there with far less bugs. Even after playing the demo I could tell that there is not one person in the Ion Storm who actualy learned some physics while getting a degree. And the size of the levels, assuming that the engine was the actual limitation, which it probably was, speaks about how much they know about writing the map engines. But that did not bother anyone because they knew that the game would sell well either way because the first one was such a success.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by K^2
We all bought it. As far as marketing goes that is the measure of how good the game was. And even though I don't have the actual numbers of how well it sold, I am sure it is a lot better than that of some games out there with far less bugs. Even after playing the demo I could tell that there is not one person in the Ion Storm who actualylearned some physics while getting a degree. And the size of the levels, assuming that the engine was the actual limitation, which it probably was, speaks about how much they know about writing the map engines. But that did not bother anyone because they knew that the game would sell well either way because the first one was such a success.
How do you know what they've learnt? :p

Anyway, yer right, I was actually quite excited about tha Havok 2 engine, they talking about how it will take into account all mass and momentum but turns out to be all hollywood physics (I think you know what that means), especially when yer talking down someone. The level size was limited by the xbox's 64MB of memory and WS admitted to this in a recent interview, he said that his team would've given anything for 128MB but...ah well.

Also, I was informed that this Unreal Warfare engine they used and got license for is the beta version, cheaper and crappy.

[thegrommit]

Originally posted by Mister Blue
Grommit says, in his experience, more games have serious issues out of the box (and before the first patch comes out) than I realize. I (see "and anyone else who agrees with me" :rolleyes: ) say I haven't come across such issues in anywhere near the amount of games he alludes to.


Take a look at any of the official forums for the games I've previously mentioned. Absolute chaos around the time of initial release.


Grommit, if that's been your experience, that's fine. I'm not trying to "project my good luck" on to you. But I would bet anything that there is a large enough number of people whose experience matches mine, hence making the issue with the Deus Ex series (or even just DX IW) something which counts as a problem relative to other games.

Anyway, wouldn't you think this regardless? I mean, who can honestly say that DXIW, in its current state, is a product that should have gone anywhere near the marketplace? (as a PC game at least. I can't speak for the X-box one). This is what the issue boils down to, no? [/B]

If it were only my experience, the patches wouldn't be necessary. Notice how I didn't deny your experience (yet you seem to want to rally the troops around your pov), just pointed out that DX isn't the only game for this to happen to.

And for the record, I personally have had good experience with PC games, but then I try to stay reasonably up to date hardware wise. However, I've followed enough forums to know my experience isn't typical. It's an unpleasant fact that buying a PC game before its patched is typically (not always) an act of faith.

[Pooeypants]

I think the argument should be centered on why the game was released with so many bugs and problems, it can be applied to many titles. Sure a patch will be released but why not implement the bulk of the corrections before you release? The answer is that EIDOS is very impatient and pushed for release, I'm sure Ion Storm were unhappy but what could they do?

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by lacoha
EMAIL THEM...let 'em know. Cause guess what, they are gamers too!:) [/B]

This has happened a few times before and I've drawn the line here. I'm not letting the game industry screw with me any more. Still, it's partially gamers fault because we've sent a message to developers that it's OK to send us beta grade games in a $50 box.
Even game stores are catching on to the developers shoddy business practices and are refusing to give refunds anymore, only exchanges and store credits.


I took mine back and got another game. You should too. Because they're gamers, they'll understand why I took my money back from them and gave it to someone else.

[mgeorge]

There is no excuse for this game being released the way it was. I have purchased many PC games in the past and other than (dare I say it), the original DE, I have never experienced these kind of problems before. There are many times when annoying little glitches appear in games, but never anything like DE IW. I purchased this title the day it came out, and to this day haven't been able to play it other than a few maps at the beginning. The game hitches at the loading screen, and I'm really sick of looking at the image of a cleaner bot while the game is trying to load in one of the first levels and then being tossed to the desktop. It's kind of sad when an honest person like myself pays 50 bucks for a game and then can't play it because of secrurerom issues. And while I don't have a state of the art computer, it is still under 2 years old and I do meet the system requirements. If anyone at Eidos or Ion Storm is reading this (which I kind of doubt at this point), release a patch for us poor saps who can't even play!

[Orumph]

I have purchased many games,, and I have not had the problems with any of them out of the box that I have with DX2.
Infact, every single one of them have ran perfectly fine (without patches or tweaking of any kind) with the exception of Halo which needed to be adjusted graphicly a bit.
But still it's more playable than DX2 and looks a 1000 times better.

BF1942
Call of Duty
Medal of Honor
Unreal 2
UT2003
Serious Sam 1&2
Hitman 1&2
Tron 2.0
Max Payne 1&2
No One Lives Forever 2
GTA 3 and Vice City
plus more.

All of these games have played perfectly, without crashing, no tweaking, no patches.

Conclusion, DX2 was shipped broken for everyone (except a lucky few).

Companies best be on notice about this type of behaviour.

If this is what gaming is coming to, You don't deserve my money.

[KallSu]

It's true that almost all games are patched, but MOST games work well before that patch. Patching is not a sign of a defective product, it merely seeks to improve it. HOWEVER, DX:IW is not in need of a little patch somewhere down the line to enhance performance or fix a couple bugs. DX:IW has huge, glaring problems that make it nearly unplayable for most PC users, including well run, high-end systems. More than a patch DX:IW needed more dev time, and a LOT of beta testing on the PC. It's terribly shoddy work on many levels, but after Tomb Raider AOD... DX:IW is not really a surprise. People who say that DX 1 had similar problems are kidding themselves. Yes, DX 1 had a host of issues, but none that compared with the framerate DEATH of DX:IW, and it's gameplay was fundamentally solid... something I don't think applies to DX:IW.

[RaidzaRai]

This game needs a patch, but what it neede first was a lot more work. I for one don't appreciate Ion Storm putting this thing out unfinished just to get more money on christmas.