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View Full Version : [SPOILER] Many Questions (with MANY SPOILERS!!)


HunterS233
11-20-2003, 07:34 PM
Ok, I've got a lot of them, so I hope you guys have the patience to bear with me through this.

#1) Vorador

Why's he still dead at the end of the game? I thought it was said that Defiance was going to answer why he was alive in BO2, but it didn't seem to. Considering everything else came together so perfectly, I have to assume it was carefully plotted to be this way.

I was really happy when Raziel set out to Vorador's mansion, cause I figured that, with this game being set during the events of Blood Omen, Raziel would run into the Vampire Hunters that were coming to capture Vorador while he was making his own way through the mansion, and would have to kill them. That would explain why Vorador survived to lead the Vampire rebellion in BO2. But instead they came while he was gone, and succeeded in capturing him. Since the game ends after the conclusion of BO would occur, and neither Kain nor Raziel seemed to do anything that would result in his rescue, I have to assume he was still killed as we all remember from BO.

This means one of two things: Either in the next LoK, Kain will, for whatever reason, travel back in time and for some reason save him (maybe because he knows his younger self will need his help if he and Nosgoth are to survive), or there's still a gaping plothole in the series. I, personally, have an abundance of faith in Amy and the LoK crew, so I suspect the former.

EDIT: Ok, I just finished reading that thread where Amy herself answered a bunch of questions, and apparently the reason Vorador still seems to die is because they had to cut part of the game. That still means the question is unanswered though, and so my "one of two things" still applies. I mean, Turel was cut from the first game, and they picked it up later, so I imagine they'll do the same with this.

Side question here: Did anyone else notice a portrait in Vorador's Mansion of a woman with three tatoos on her face, one on her forehead running vertically, and two more on her cheeks going horizontally? Umah, perhaps? It would have to be before she became a Vampire, as every Vampire save Kain (and possibly Vorador) was annihilated during this time period. Perhaps she was someone Vorador had loved when he was still human, or, possibly, even when he was a Vampire, before he had developed his hatred for humans (maybe something that happened to her was even the cause of that hatred; killed for loving a Vampire, maybe?).

#2) Moebius

In the beginning of the game, he implied that he still dies in the manner we participated in in the original BO. Yet, the game ends after the events of BO, and he is still alive right up to the finale. I'm assuming this is because, as he stated to Kain, he serves one who holds power over life and death, so he did in fact die after Vorador's execution, and the Elder God's little "I call you" speech he made before Raziel was actually him bringing him back to life, not just telling him to get his frail old ass back there.

EDIT: Again, Amy answered this, and Moebius was indeed resurrected, but the rest of my question still applies...

But what I don't get is why the Elder God brought him back then if he was "of no further use" as he told Raziel after he devoured him (side question: would this give Raziel power over time? Ooh, hehe). Maybe he just really wanted that report, which seems kind of funny for one who claims to be all-knowing and ever-present. Maybe the Elder God needed Raziel to devour his soul? Or maybe the Elder God wanted to give Raziel the opportunity to sacrifice himself as he did, which would mean that our heroes walked into yet another trap *shiver*. Regardless of whatever the circumstances, it was still very cool and very, VERY satisfying to see Moebius die, even moreso than in BO, heh.

This raises two more questions though: First, why did Moebius not see this second death coming? Second, let's assume that time had not been altered, and we were still following the path where Raziel had killed Kain before William's tomb, and subsequently been devoured by the Reaver after slaughtering the Sarafan heroes. In this timeline, the elder Kain wouldn't have been around to kill him this second time. Does that mean Moebius was alive all those thousands of years after BO, manipulating things from behind the scenes?

#3) Altering Time

There was never a period of "that familiar distortion," in which two incarnations of the Soul Reaver are present in the same time and space, in Defiance, which, technically, should mean that time was not altered any further than the initial alterations in SR2. Yet throughout the game characters speak of Raziel having free will. Why is this? If it is because technically, he shouldn't exist any more, as he should have been devoured by the Reaver, then Kain should have free will too, because he should have died in William's Chapel long before. Regardless, I can't really abide by that explanation, since time should have reshuffled and flowed around the obstruction Raziel represents, and his entire fate should have been rewritten at the very moment he was devoured, which would mean he still has no free will, he's just being propelled down a different path. The only explanation I can really begin to accept is that perhaps, after time has been changed, the "first time through," everything is up for grabs, but that seems very unlikely. If anyone has any theories on this, they'd be much appreciated, because for me this was the single most confusing aspect of the game.

Oh, secondly, why was there no period of distortion at that moment when his soul was being devoured, when his soul hovered both inside and outside the blade, as there was in Soul Reaver 2? The only answer I could really think of for that is that perhaps the cutscene at that point was from Kain's point of view, and that maybe only Raziel feels the distortion, not anyone else (Kain didn't feel it in BO when he fought William).

Side note: Does anyone else think it would be insanely cool if Kain travelled through time to retrieve a second Soul Reaver, then went around with dual Soul Reavers, altering time at every moment and changing whatever he wished?

#4) Kain

Ok, he survived because he's the Scion of Balance, and for some reason that renders him unkillable. I'm a little iffy on that, but I'll buy it. Here's the interesting thing though: when he confronts Moebius, the staff doesn't work anymore because, according to Kain, the part of him that affected is no longer with him. So the staff only had an effect on Kain because he had a vampiric heart inside him. Does this mean that Kain is no longer a vampire himself? Has he evolved so far that he has become something greater?


I'm sure I have more questions that I can't think of at the moment, but for now that's it. I think that's enough, anyway, to keep everyone satisfied for a while, hehe. If I think of any more I'll be sure to post them after these have been discussed for a while. Enjoy!


Arn "Hunter" Opar
Hunting Grounds (http://www.instinct.nu/hunter)

Rampant
11-20-2003, 09:03 PM
The answers to your questions are as follows.

First off, I'd add that the team that makes this game, Amy in particular have answers for just about everything that happens in the video games, but sometimes because of lack of time these things get cut out, but are later added.

As you said there is a reason why Vorador is alive in Blood Omen 2, and it was going to be explained but it was cut out. How Turel arrived at the time of Defiance was also going to be elaborated upon but they didn't have enough time to do this. No the woman's picture in Vorador's Mansion is not Umah, but it is someone he cared for that died long ago.

Time has been altered to such a degree that now Raziel has his free will back, Raziel himself can do as he pleases without being controlled by the Wheel of Fate. Therefore Moebius cannot see what Raziel is going to do, because Raziel is no longer bound to the timestream as he was before since he escaped his original destiny at the end of Soul Reaver 2. Moebius was working with the Elder with a plan to get rid of all the vampires, when Kain messed up their plans in Soul Reaver 2, they came up with a new plan, which is the one in Defiance. Moebius didn't exactly know what choice Raziel was going to choose, because he could no longer see the future as before, he could only guess what was going to happen based on his knowledge of events of the last timeline. Thus Moebius and the Elder to a degree manipulated Raziel. Moebius didn't know that he was going to be brought back to life, nor did he know that Kain was going to return. The Elder didn't want Raziel to uncover the Spirit Forge and forge the Spirit wraith blade. When Raziel did this, fearful of what might happen the Elder brought Moebius back to life as a diversion for Kain. The Elder did this in the hopes that he would have enough time to cause a toppling of the place and trap them both Raziel and Kain there. The Elder didn't know that Raziel was going to make the choice that he did, in fact he feared such a choice at this time. When Raziel healed Kain with the Spirit wraith blade and then became the Soul Reaver, the Elder's plan failed, he is not as omnipotent nor all knowing as he appears to be, he had lost and been defeated.

A new timeline has been set, in which Raziel may choose his outcome without there being any time distortions, you don't need the time distortions of Soul Reaver 2, because they only served to give Raziel back this chance at free will. When Raziel touched the Blood Reaver, there was no distortion as he said in Soul Reaver 2, when Janos showed him the Blood Reaver, he himself felt no distortion. The time distortion only happens when two Soul Reavers, the wraith blade on Raziel's right hand, and a wraith blade within the Soul Reaver meet. The exception occured in Soul Reaver 2, when the physical Blood Reaver blade was plunged into Raziel's chest, it began to devour him, thus for a moment there were two wraith blades. This time around Raziel has partially escaped his destiny of becoming the wraith blade, thus the temporal distorations do not occur. In addition Kain is using the Emblem of Balance which prevents a time distortion from occuring, remember the last piece he got was of time and he is the axis upon which all the others revolve upon. Also there are no time distortions because this time around, time is not being changed or rewritten, instead it is being written by Raziel. Yet still is Raziel drawn within the blade in order to achieve a balance without the time distortions. In addition the wraith blade at the end was different this time it was now imbued with the Spirit of Ariel and other Balance Guardians, who sought to restore Balance, if time can be changed there can be no balance.

Lastly Kain returned to life for two possible reasons, one being the Balance Guardian it creates a unique situation he may still be connected to the Heart of Darkness. Thus when it was returned to Janos's body, and he came back to life, so did Kain. Two, when Raziel baptized the wraith blade and it became the Spirit Reaver, somehow this began Kain's healing and allowed him to live again. As Ariel is the Balancer Guardian and Kain is the Scion of Balance, the activation of the final forge, which called upon all the Balance Guardians and the creation of the Spirit Reaver, brought Kain back so that he could fullfill his destiny. In the end the Spirit Reaver, went within Kain and healed him once and for all, both physically and spiritually.

Morcilla
11-20-2003, 09:48 PM
#1 - it got cut out of the game. Simple as that basically - they were going to explain it, and due to some reason I don't know, it didn't make the final cut.
Didn't think of the picture being Umah, but it's an interesting thought. And remember, Vorador did come back after dying. which means it's not inconceivable that any other vampire could as well, so Umah could've been a fledgling and been killed in the BO1 era purge and still return later.

#2 - I think Moebius's ressurection and 2nd death was done by EG just to get Raziel back into the physical realm without tipping his hand. I think it was his intention all along to allow Raziel to escape and enter the Reaver, and allow Kain to escape so that the Reaver can go where it belongs (eventually to King Willy & young Kain if nowhere before that). And I don't think Moebius would've been raised on the original timeline, since it wouldn't have been necessary. As for why Moebius wasn't aware of Kain's return and that he would kill him again, I can only attribute it to perhaps the collapse of the pillars weakening Moebius's powers along with his assumption that Kain had already died by Raziel's hand.

#3 - Raziel IS the Reaver, and so is the Wraith Blade. He has free will more in part I believe because he basically is 2 incarnations of the Soul Reaver, walking around bound together. And perhaps it matters that he didn't understand this before SR2's ending.
I'm guessing the reason he didn't go through the distortion maybe also had to do with the Wraith blade or some part of him also going into Kain to restore him. Not sure on that.

#4 - Everything else about him still suggests that he's a vampire. But who knows? I'll hold out till the next game on this one.

KainRaziel
11-21-2003, 04:44 PM
It has been a long held belief by myself that Kain brings Vorador back. I know that Kain is unable to make a Vampire because he was not born a vampire which makes Raziel, Turel, Dumah, Rahab, Zephon, and Melciah a complete mystery to me. If you look at Vorador in BO2, he looks much more batlike which shows he is evolving. Also, his neck has a white necklace strap around his neck that looks like a bandage. In order for Kain to build an army of vampires he needed a naturally born vampire or a turned vampire. In BO2 Vorador can be seen in the opening cutscene hanging around Kain's war room. Yeah, so how about that?

KainRaziel
11-21-2003, 04:46 PM
Also, Kain could only be killed by the Soul Reaver. You can rip out every organ in his body, he would not die. His role as Scion of Balance will not let him die, Kain is the one which will bring the pillars back to the rule of vampires.