View Full Version : Blood reaver / Soul reaver
11-19-2003, 05:46 AM
Hi guys. I cannot remember if Kain uses the Blood Reaver or Soul reaver in Blood Omen 2!
Just need to know to try an confirm some ideas about the whole upside down story!!!!
11-19-2003, 08:36 AM
iīm at the 11th level and until now he didnīt use the soul reaver, because when sarafan lord defeated Kain, he took this weapon from a vampire.
11-19-2003, 06:25 PM
Soul reaver. It was the soul reaver in the first Blood Omen, and it still is in the second.
11-20-2003, 09:32 AM
Cheers guys. Screwed my theory (perhaps not).
If Raziel did not become the Soul Reaver at the end of SR2 and events changed in the past (BO2), Kain Should have had the Blood Reaver. Unless the end of SR2 finished BEFORE BO 1 and 2 in which Raziel does become the SR in the end regardless!!!
11-21-2003, 08:14 PM
I have only 1 theory about this. ITS NOT THE SOUL REAVER because if you remember there was a common denominator- the screams. When you made a swipe with the blade, screams can be heard with a bluish streak (probably why Raziel is blue (decided by CD perhaps?)).
3pwud is right based on what I currently know on the LoK series. I hope everyone agrees... at least I know whether my thoughts are accurate or not.
PEACE OUT !!!
11-21-2003, 09:13 PM
Guys...it's like this. SR2 ended LONG before the events of BO1, and as of that point Raz makes a comment that means he will still be trapped in the blade at some point. Then comes BO!, where Kain uses the SOUL Reaver. BO2 happens after that, it is still the SOUL Reaver. Open the manual and read the Introduction/Story. It says it in there plain as day that it is the Soul Reaver.
11-21-2003, 10:50 PM
@ BanzaiHeil: -
That still doesnt explain why there was no screams when the blade was swung. In every other LoK game a swipe can be heard with the Soul Reaver, why then wouldnt BO2 adhere to that ? A technicality ?
PEACE OUT !!!
11-22-2003, 05:50 AM
I agree with BanzaiHeil, but itīs not just a soul reaver itīs a question of power, because the main goal of KAin is to rule Norgoth, but he could do it only when he got his weapon back.
11-22-2003, 09:25 AM
I would have to say it's a technicality. Take a look at the opening movie. It show's Kain with the Soul Reaver, and the reaver has a blue "lightening" effect going on. That wasn't in SR2, but I always made the assumption that the blue lightening is Raziel. So, why would you have a Soul Reaver that looks different AND sounds different that from previous games? The answer is because BO2 was made from a near completely different team than the previous games. If you haven't noticed, Kain himself looks different in this game than all others. It's because the BO2 team made their own game.
11-22-2003, 02:15 PM
Its not just that BanzaiHeil. He looks different because its 400 yrs after Blood Omen 1. He appears different because in SR1 he has evolved ten fold. It was a 1000 yrs later so you would expect him to look different. And if you ask me, due to technological advances - Kain looks pretty decent for 400 yrs later. The original team of SR couldnt have made Kain look any different (primiarily because he would need to appear young and naive - which BO2 did perfectly). He would have to remain vampiric looking as he was still quite young, whilst in SR1 and SR2 - he looks more demonic but with his vampiric qualities.
Another thing people dont seem to understand is that even though BO2 was designed as a game that is a consequence of SR2's ending not happening. However BO2 doesnt happen straight after SR2, it appears just as the name implies SR2, BO1, BO2 because it has to remain chronological (i.e. according to time).
PEACE OUT !!!
11-22-2003, 02:42 PM
Well, my only issue with Kain's looks in BO2 is that he is ghost white, while in BO1 there was a greenish hue to his skin tone. I tried to justify this by saying, "maybe he looks pale cause he got his butt whooped by the Sarafan Lord." However, he was that color in that battle, so that doesn't pan out. Anyways, his looks are irrelevant, my entire point was that the different teams made different games, and not all characteristics of one weapon or person are the same from game to game. The blade used in BO2 is the Soul Reaver, regardless of whether or not the team put in a scream sound effect. Now, I can take this a step further by saying that there is another instance in which the Soul Reaver doesn not scream, and that is in SR1. Did you hear it scream when Kain struck Raziel with it?
11-22-2003, 05:08 PM
At that point it would have really mattered whether it screamed or not when it Raziel. I know I sound like Im being a hippocrite but a) it might have been a technicality or b) it may have been done on purpose because it was such a climax that the scream wouldnt have been remembered unless you were really looking for it. That cutscene was important to watch simply for the story.
However during the rest of the game, Raziel continues to use his wraith blade - and once he slashes, it sounds like a lightsaber. Waow waow :p
PEACE OUT !!!
- SpiritShift -
11-23-2003, 02:31 AM
It depends on how you would define the sword itself. I prefer to think of the Blood Reaver as the physical blade and the Soul Reaver as the living, wraith form.
So I'd say that Kain has the Blood Reaver in Blood Omen 2.
But I'm probably completely wrong. ;)
11-24-2003, 05:02 AM
3pwud, it is very simple indeed: Raziel DOES get inside de blade after all. Remember you still have to play Defiance. I haven't yet, but I asume this is what happens, since, like raziel himself said at the end of SR2, he didn't change his destiny, he merely postponed it. He said this because he saw the wraith reaver emerging from his arm again, what can only meant one thing: his soul is still getting inside de blade
11-24-2003, 04:50 PM
Ok, here's how I define the Reavers.
Possible Spoilers for those who have not played SR2:
Blood Reaver: Also referred to as just "The Reaver" The physical blade that was forged for Raziel. This blade does NOT have Raziel trapped within. It only draws the blood of it's victims to it.
Soul Reaver (Physical Blade): This is the exact same blade as the Blood Reaver, however it has Raziel trapped within, thus changing it's properties to a soul devouring blade.
Soul Reaver (Wraith Blade): Obviously this it the soul of Raziel bound to his past self, released when Kain struck the physical Soul Reaver blade on Raziel.
Now, assuming all my definitions are accurate, you can also assume that the physical blade didn't gain the title Soul Reaver until Raziel became trapped within. Now, play through Blood Omen 2 again. There is not one reference to the blade that does not call it the Soul Reaver. Besides, why else would they call it a Soul Reaver unless it reaved to souls, which doesn't happen until Raziel becomes trapped within
And one more arguement for the Blade in BO2 being the Soul Reaver. Relatively early on in the game Kain mentions something about being a pawn before. Now, obviously there is no concrete proof as to what he is referring to, but I find it a safe assumtion that he is referring to being coerced into going back in time and killing William The Just. That whole dilema of him altering the timeline and reigniting a vampire purge would not have been possible if it weren't for the paradox caused from there being two Soul Reavers being in the same place at one time. And if it was the Soul Reaver then, then it is still the Soul Reaver 400 years later in BO2.
11-29-2003, 06:55 AM
I agree whole heartedly with BanzaiHeil ! I cant argue any better than that. Remember Kain drew the Blood Reaver from Raziels chest. If he didnt, Raziel's destiny would have come full circle only to end ! The reason he says it has come full circle is being his whole existance was orchestrated and looped, thus not creating any such paradox. If Raziel was sucked into the blade, Mobius would have been there once the blade fell only to pick it up and probably give it to William in the past and thus, the streams of time fit perfectly.
Kain was only there (end of SR2) because he had already seen the streams of time and how it flows. Mobius was probably watching all this and unable to intervene as his death may have been inevitable at that moment, had only Kain seen him. Time reshuffled because of the paradox that makes 2 reavers meet each other. Kain stopped the newly created Soul Reaver from completely leeching on Raziels soul and therefore Raziels destiny changed allowing him a new stitch in the cloth of time ;). Raziel was supposed to die allowing the "parasite" of time as Kain referred to it, to be elliminated!
PEACE OUT !!!
11-29-2003, 07:49 AM
Sigh.....somehow I am losing clarity. babifrence, you say you agree with me....but you say you believe the sword in BO2 is the Blood Reaver. I do not. I believe the sword in BO2 is the Soul Reaver, WITH Raziel's soul trapped within. True, he does not become stuck there at the end of SR2, but when he slips into the spectral realm and sees the wraith blade, he comments on how Kain has merely postponed his destiny. He means that, while he's not stuck in the blade right now...he will. (And just for clarity, he knows this because he wouldn't have a soul reaver stuck on his arm if the blade never becomes the soul reaver.) So then if he is not stuck in the blade, how can I think it's the Soul Reaver in BO2? Because, Raziel knows he WILL become trapped within at some point, and my GUESS is Defiance. Yeah....haven't played it yet, but regardless my theory pans out without Defiance. The blade will become the Soul Reaver, thus alowing Kain to change history in BO1. As for the Mobius part of your arguement, I disagree because do not forget that the time period that they are in is hundreds of year's before William the Just is even born. Mobius will have plenty of opportunuties to reclaim the sword and bring it to William.
11-29-2003, 09:20 AM
In regards to my earlier post in this thread, I have changed my perceptions since arriving at this forum and hence the reason for different opinions this time around. I really have come to adopt different perrogatives and perceptions and thus they are changing all the time. Hope this clarifies a few situations, at least with me anyway :p.
PEACE OUT !!!
11-29-2003, 09:02 PM
aren't there 2 soul reavers in circulation?
the one Raziel fixed, you know, the one William possessed....then the one in the making, the blood reaver, the one he was bound to be trapped in....obviously there is something paradoxical about this....we're playing with time here.
11-30-2003, 06:09 AM
The Soul Reaver that Kain has IS the Soul Reaver that Kain destroyed, he didn't get it until after Raziel Fixed it. It's like this....
50 Years before the majority of BO1 (the present time of BO1): The Soul Reaver was broken in the battle of Kain and William the Just.
30 years before the majority of BO1 (the present time of BO1): The Soul Reaver was fixed by Raziel.
During BO1: Kain finds the Soul Reaver in Avernus. A little later he travels back 50 years and slays William the Just, breaking William's Soul Reaver. He then returns to his own time, bringing his Soul Reaver with him. So, with the exceptions of the William the Just battle and when Raziel fixes the broken blade, there is only one Soul Reaver at any given time in the BLOOD OMEN era, that's 1 AND 2.
As fas as the Blood Reaver, "the one in the making," coming into play, as far as I am concerned, that was 500 years before BO1 and I see ZERO reason to specutlate that someone from the past brought Kain the Blood Reaver, and Kain willingly took the less powerful blade, and then sometime later Kain returned it to to the past so that Raziel can get stuck in it for it to be the Soul Reaver that Kain used in BO1. None of that makes any sense, nor is there anything that hints that was the case.
So no, I do not believe that there is more than one reaver coming into play during the BO2 time period.
12-01-2003, 05:18 PM
do you really believe there is only 1 soul reaver in circulation at all times?
What about this...at the end of Defiance, Elder Kain holds a purified version of the Soul Reaver, and Young Kain chooses his fate while having the other Soul Reaver, the one that followed him through time up until breaking it on Raziel.
I'm still gonna stand by what I think happened unless I am completely proven wrong.
this is why I hate playing with Time, it becomes such a big
mind - **4 lettered word**
12-01-2003, 05:28 PM
Alright, well A: I haven't played Defiance yet, so thanks for the spoiler.
And B: I see that I stand corrected on that there is more than one reaver during BO1, however that still changes nothing about how many are in BO2. (And even if there is two in BO2, from what you said they are both Soul Reavers....so again no Blood Reaver came into play.)
12-01-2003, 06:55 PM
If you're going to be using specific information from Defiance as an example in your posts, you must put a SPOILER tag around it, especially outside of the Defiance forum.
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