View Full Version : [SPOILERS] Timeline question
11-16-2003, 01:51 PM
Can someone who understands the timelines explain this to me?
If raziel is in the timeline of the original Blood Omen game, how is Turel alive? Was there a time change I missed? Shouldn't he still be dead as Kain has not yet revived him? He says that he heard about what Raziel did to his brethren so it would appear as though this is after the events of the first soul reaver game.
11-16-2003, 02:03 PM
Turel went back in time at some point. It's not hard to assume considering that #1, Turel could likely make it to the chronoplast if he wished and used it to go as far back as he liked, and #2, the pillars are in such disrepair by that time that a Hylden influence moving him there seems very reasonable. I only wonder how long Turel was actually down there, since Hash'Ak'Gik was supposed to have existed with his cult for a considerable amount of time.
11-16-2003, 02:17 PM
That makes sense.
Here's another timeline question:
Is it the "young" kain(post BO) or the "old" Kain(post LOK: D) who fights the Sarafan Lord before BO2 occurs? Initially I thought it would have to be the young kain since he doesn't have the reaver but Kain has the reaver at the end of both BO and LOK: D.
Also, I assume that Kain is going to travel back to the "future" before restoring the pilars or he will create another paradox that will prevent ANY of the evens that happened after the original BO from happening...
Or maybe I'm just thinking too hard...
11-19-2003, 11:40 AM
As to your last question:
It is the young Kain, fresh from Blood Omen 1 that fights the Sarafan Lord at the beginning introduction of Blood Omen 2, which is 200 years after Blood Omen 1. At the end of Soul Reaver 2 the Elder Kain received new memories, these memories are the events of Blood Omen 2. In Defiance the Elder Kain attempted to stop the events his younger self goes through in Blood Omen 2 from happening, ultimately he failed in this regard but still wins a vitory of sorts.
11-19-2003, 01:34 PM
remember when the hylden appeared in BO2? and they didnt know how a breach was made for the Sarafan lord to get through....who do you think possessed Janos at the end of defiance? could it have possibly been the Sarafan Lord BEFORE the events of BO:2? yet another question remains....what happens when Janos is tossed into the demon realm at the end of BO:2?????? that is what trruly will set the stage for the next game
consider this: if Janos is in their realm....could there not be another hylden in Kain's realm after BO:2....one who could have then started the cycle of orchestrating the events of all of the games....and even more intriguing, if so what does the EG really have to do with all this...The hylden made the vampires immortal as a punishment but we can assume that hylden(who apparently didnt believe in the Wheel of Life) desired immortality.....could it be that this whole time, the EG is really only trying to destroy the hylden(with his hatred of vampires only due to feeling of betrayal when they no longer entered the wheel)? remember moebius mentions that hylden are a minor complication easily taken care of...yet they dont seem so minor when you look at the big picture
i dont think this series can ever truly be resolved...the time traveling and inter-dimensional implications of even BO:2 are far greater than many realize....who says the defiance doesnt have a cliffhanger ending?
Keep in mind, Turel escaped Raziels wrath in SR1. It's quiet possible for him to have heard about what happened to the others before the Hylden or whatever pulled him back in time to BO1 era.
And yes it's a young Kain that faces down the SL. Keep in mind that while at the end of LOKD Kain has the soul reaver that doesn't mean that he doesn't leave it somewhere to be found later. He can travel through time after all.
Max von Bek
11-19-2003, 03:30 PM
Forgive me if I missed the answer to this somewhere, but where did the Hylden originally come from? From the murals under the pillars and those at the beginning of SR2, it looks like they appeared from "elsewhere". That they weren't actually native to Nosgoth. Anyone else got the information to prove that wrong, as I'd like to hear it.
No answer there. I don't think they ever explore that.
11-19-2003, 04:30 PM
At the end of Defiance, what time do the events occur?
When Ariel is summoned to the Spirit Forge, I contend that this is the Ariel from the future which is linked with the older Kain. When older Kain died, she was released from the Pillars and went to the Vampire Citadel through a portal that brought her to the Vampire Citadel in the time of Defiance. Kain returned to life because he is the Scion of Balance, and since Ariel was restored and the wraith-blade became the Spirit Reaver, it brought Kain back through the link he shares with Ariel. What I wonder is what happened afterwards. How long was Raziel in the Spectral Realm after his defeat at the hands of Janos? He could have been there for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Also when Kain left the demon dimension, at what time period did he return to in Nosgoth? He could've returned to the same time or farther into the future.
11-19-2003, 05:43 PM
I think it has to be the Ariel from the future, because if the Ariel from the past was the one absorbed into the Soul Reaver, then Ariel would never have existed in the future, and so Raziel wouldn't have even known who she was. ...Though, come to think of it, Kain seemed to know what had changed when they changed time, so I guess those involved in the change of time still know what happened before the change? Urgh, the answer to one question always brings up another in these games, hehe.
Like the Janos situation. Kain seems to be extraordinarily deadset on Janos not being revived. A lot of people seem to think that this is because of how he was used in BO2. But that can't be the case because Kain remembers defeating that particular plot, without anything really drastic occuring. So that must mean that Janos being sent to the demon realm has even more dire consequences than... well... everything
Oh, and one last thing that I'm surprised no one else has brought up. Of course it's the young Kain that fights the Sarafan Lord. The Kain in BO2 is still mostly human, not the awesomely evolved Kain we all know and love.
Arn "Hunter" Opar
Raziel had only been gone a few moments. No more than a handful of hours. Kain pretty much returned about the same time. Only hours after he had been killed.
Kain mentions that he returned to Nosgoth just moments after his fateful descion. And from what it appears Moebuis was giving an acount of the recent actions which implies not alot of time has passed between his own death and that of Kain's or Raz's defeat at the hands of Janos.
As for Kain being dead set against Janos being brought back I would be too if I had the memories of BO2. He may not have wanted them to occur in the first place. Or maybe something else happens after BO2 that we don't know about that he wishes to avoid.
11-19-2003, 06:31 PM
a few thoughts
Ariel is definately the future one.
About the Hylden, my bet is that they are and at least as long as it matters, always have been immortal, and they never accepted the wheel of fate. Which even somewhat explains how Raziel was there champion, since Raziel was the one creature who cannot be spun into the wheel.
This could also explain the Nexus Stone a little, as my guess is now that it was an artifact made by the Hylden during the war to protect themselves from having their souls fed into the wheel, which is what would happen to them if they were consumed by Raziel, and that happens to folks in BO2 times only when they are struck down with the Soul Reaver.
And Hunter is right, there is more to Kain's opposition to having Janos raised then what happens in BO2, and my bet is that it has to do with the Hylden now possessing the Heart of Darkness. Kain says plainly to Raziel when he has Raz weakened in Avernus that "The Heart of Darkness must remain undiscovered, great harm will come of it's use". I don't think he meant the device in BO2. But I do think we will find out in a future game.
11-23-2003, 10:26 PM
why now does kain not just travel to the point at the end of bo2 where he finds janos and rescue him before he can fall into the world of the hylden?, would that not save the world a good deal of trouble? he could after all being more powerful kill the sarafan lord and just leave the earlier reaver for his younger self to find
edit forgot the / :) good thing I noticed
not really a spoiler though
11-24-2003, 01:52 AM
First off, Maybe Kain just wants Umah to live so his younger self will meet her and have her as his queen. It doesn't alwasy have to be something drastically important to the survival of Nosgoth.
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