Ideas for LoK series yet to come.

[Huncules]

i was searching the net for info about SR3. and i found some screens that could be fake. But they showed Raz like in the intro of SR1. Now i always wanted to play with raz full fleshed and in his former glorious state. So i hoped they could use the heart of darkness on raz instead of on Janos as raz was going to do after the serefan tore out janosses heart in SR2. I mean think of it a vampire raz like kain in Bo2 but the SR combat engine and surroundings. Oh i REALLY hope u get to play raz with wings!!!! DAMN they are so ***** cool.

I read some posts on this forum and noticed how many ppl crave for the full story with every detail explained. And as a die hard LoK fan i agree. Let eidos show the construction of the pillars the empire of the ancients. The war with the hylden. and later the banishment and blood curse story. But also the raising of kains luitenants and the slaughter of the human citys (all except the last one is SR1) The creating of the clans the time that went by during raziels absence, yknow with his clan and stuff.

Oh i've got some more to tell ask ya. What do you think about the things eidos scraps from their games in SR1 u have places and wavs on even the playstation cd that aren't used(like the fire reaver,kain reaver,ariel reaver(i can activate the last two with a code) etc). And in SR2 u see a COMPLETE map of nosgoth and i walked that same freakin path 50 times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So i think that's about all i have to say.... if u have any ideas about the future flow of the LoK series plz drop a line on this forum about it.
thx kev :D :D :D

[Anubis_Orr]

Amy Hennig has stated that Raziel will never be returned to his previous self, this however doesn't mean that he could not use the heart of darkness on himself and become LIKE Janos but different.

Some people have theorized that in the next game Raziel will go back further in time, perhaps to the times you've mentioned but we'll have to wait and see.

Generally the things that get scrapped in games have good potential story-wise and can be quite entertaining, however because of a lack of manpower, money, inclination, they get left out so the game can make it's announced release date.

Personally I don't know IF Raziel can indeed go back to the construction of the pillars and the battle with the cursed ones, because I think the Time Streaming Chambers were built AFTER the pillars (can't be a Guardian of Time until there's a pillar). I'd REALLY like to see the raising of Kain's lieutenants especially from Raziel's perspective and his narrative, I'd also like to know what happened to Raziel's clan, were they exterminated, fight amongst themselves, disband without a leader... who knows :)

Ya gotta wonder how much has been affected by outside forces, like Moebius and the Elder. Does it begin with the death of Raziel's brothers or with the death of Ariel (IMO it's the latter, I believe that Raziel HAS to die and then be brought back as a vampire, however Kain's decisions and actions are limited by Ariel's murder)

Well that's my 2 ce....... 3,4,5
5 cents :)

[Huncules]

about the heart i didn't say become like janos . the only statement i get from the heart is that it restores vampiric unlife! so that would mean our pretty raziel gets to be the pretty raziel before he was cast into the abyss :p

[Huncules]

Lol i shouldn't worry about the time streaming chambre cause if nececary raz could try to get a hand on the time streaming device kain uses.... then it wouldn't matter if there's a chambre right? And i get the thing about the not enough manpower but..... they delayed the game tons of times they could just as well finish it!!! The LoK series can e an even bigger hit if they pump more effort in it...don't ya agree :)
that's ur 5 cents back i just got some from someone else :)

[Anubis_Orr]

But they showed Raz like in the intro of SR1. Now i always wanted to play with raz full fleshed and in his former glorious state. So i hoped they could use the heart of darkness on raz

You said become full fleshed, I said like Janos for the reasons already stated.
IMO the Time Chambers work like an anchor in their time periods and the Time Piece is just an extension of that power

[blincoln]

It's still technically possible to have a game set before the events of SR1. I don't know if it's something CrystalD has planned, though. It would need an entirely new gameplay mechanic since Raziel could fly.
As long as there's deleted material for me to find, I'll be happy =).

[Huncules]

what u mean extension of that power? I just played bo1, bo2, Sr1,sr2. The entry of a time streamiong chambre comes from the SR series. and only in SR2 are u able to use em. I haven't seen any time streaming chambres in the entire blood omen series except maybe the one where mobious told kains future as he so sais at the end of SR1. But apart from that i haven't seen any other time chambres on the way.... so i think the time streaming device is just a magical item wich enables u to travel trough time once(cause i beleive it shatered after kain gets back) And since mobious gave the device to kain he prob could give one to raz as well. Ur fun discussing with :) :D :D :)

[Anubis_Orr]

Oh I know it's likely.... and like I said it's just my opinion on how the Time Streaming Chambers work, I would like to see the rising of the pillars and the war, but just don't know how they'll get there :)

And Huncules because you don't see it, it doesn't exist?? And as shown by SR2 the Time Streaming Chambers existed well before BO. (And don't forget the source of that device, Moebius is in control of the TSC) The device that Moebius gave to Kain broke when he returned from his sojourn to the past of the Nemesis.

Discussions are what these forums are all about, and the more ideas that get kicked around the more thoughts that get dug up :)

[Huncules]

Lol i know it's inpossible to get raz his wings back cause i can't even imagine the controls and the graphics needed to do this. But what about.... the wings could only like flap 3 times or so because they are still fragile ....like a baby learning how to walk...like in the beginning it just floats and later on he could flap them alil to reach higher and more secluded places....like the vampiric lore in Bo2 the more enemies the stronger he gets..as do his wings....

Now the TS thing..... i was thinking about the chambres and the devices that can be carried as 2 different ways of getting to the past or future....what if those devices were created by the ancients....and they scattered them trough nosgoth , And as in BO1 u can make it brake after using it to get back. y know. And maybe if you could use it as an item like selecting the era u want to go as kain did (he picked the time before the making of the nemesis) this could add some dept and freedom wich i somethimes miss in the LoK series.... just a couple of thoughts eh :) could be fun:p

[Huncules]

hey anubis... can i try the buddy list on u? u seem cool :)

[darien_specter]

Anubis, on your fifth cent (congratulations, we have a nickel! :p) you're right, Raziel has to come back as a vamp in that time frame... but Kain has to be there to raise him. Both things, though, were part of what I call the "original" timeline (that is, before Kain went back and killed William.) And I think you're right: the manipulation started with Ariel's murder... but that must have always been part of the timeline... hmmm.

As far as controls, etc., for Raziel flying... I can't see that it would be too different from what we have now. You can already make Raziel "flap" by letting go of his wings and then grabbing them again; it has no positive effect, but the control could easily be similar to that. Think about swimming: you can either repeatedly hit the jump key, or you can hold it down and he breaks into that rhythm... Raziel can already change direction in flight; just make the up and down keys perform that function for aiming, and you've got all the controls you need. And the graphical functions are all there already, too... So, if they ever wanted to for whatever reason (pre-SR1, Raziel becomes an ancient, etc.), they could put in a free-flight ability with little difficulty... :D

[Anubis_Orr]

Why must it always have been a part of the timeline? We've really only seen one timeline from anybody's perspective....
Raziel flying.... *imagines Raziel joining the Ancients in an aerial battle against the Hylden* :) That would be sweet

The only problem with that is the way puzzles are set up right now, Raziel flying means he can go anyplace he wants with easy access (unless he has to go through a labyrinth or something like that). Makes it easier to get confused and lost too, but would still be fun :)

[Huncules]

Well about the f'ree flight thing..... If u follow the idea of infant wings that grow stronger during the game.... like the reavers strengthened raz they could do the same to his wing or something :) and if you take the ancients/hylden war as something in the ed...then u might be able to work raz up to semi flying and fighting the war:) that would indeed be cool :D
oh about the timeline...... I still stand behind the headache thing about..... TIME DOESN'T CHANGE..... like kain said time is everflowing.... so the paradoxes aren't paradoxes at all :) they've just always hapened.. they just play out the parts fate has written for them...with the fake paradoxes a part of em :) that would also explain how mobious sees trough the timechanges and knows whatever raz will do :)

[Huncules]

sorry for the amount of :)'s
oh anubis if u read this can i do the buddy list or whatever i saw somewhere in this forum on u? i need a buddy :p

[Huncules]

Damn i just thought of something....... This big headache about mobious knowing everything or if raziel is choosing his own path or not could be solved with the introduction...of an item...LOL....i mean what if... raziel find some item very welml guarded wich gives him imunity from the changes in time... that would enable him to persue his own meanings without mobious being able to predict everything!!!!!! would be nice.....sigh

[Anubis_Orr]

Kain didn't say time doesn't change, he said they were like pebbles in a river and time just flowed around them admitted only the smallest of changes, but when the Reaver is used (the temporal effect seen) it's like throwing a big rock in the river, one that alters the flow of the river causing a time changing event (like from BO1 - Kain killing the Nemesis).

Moebius is not omniscient, he doesn't know everything, he expected Raziel to kill Kain in the temple but the Reaver allowed Raziel to change that.

You can add me if you want.

[darien_specter]

Yeah, I thought about that problem; also, there is a graphics issue with him flying that I didn't think about at the time but that is illustrated by using blincon's hacked saves: if you fly over the canyon wall, you drop into eternity, so there would need to be a logical prevention of that. Maybe Raziel is slightly afraid of heights... ;)

[Huncules]

Anubis... i meant that over the entire game of SR1 kain keep repeating time is everflowing, they play out the parts time has written for them, and if u forget the changes made by the paradoxes.... then u have a strait lien right??? and the paradoxes like twist the line so some changes are permitted ...but what if... the curves the paradoxes create aren't curves!!! they're just a strait line... but to raz and kain and whoever else except mobious(wich i will explain in a sec) it seems as if they changed the timeline.... BUT THEY ACTUALLY DIDN't :p that's what's givving me the headache. Now about mobious well raz creates alot of paradoxes in SR2 well when raz runs into the room where the reaver lies on the pedastale and he is stopped by malek and mabious mobious SAYS that he knew raziels every step before he even took it, but with the paradoxes that would be inpossible because time changes, But if the paradoxes were actually just time going it's normal course that would explain why mobious knew what raz did and is going to do :p oof glad to have that chunk out there :p

k i'll try the buddy thing :p

[Anubis_Orr]

Well it's not a bad theory but one thing disproves it, when Kain had his sojourn his past he history was changed by the death of William.

And it's not quite a strange line, even as they travel through time they ARE making changes but only the most minor of changes, that's why the Reaver has such an important role in things. Moebius and the Elder are like typical villains they know everything that's going to happen until it unexpectedly blows up in their faces.

[Huncules]

the william thing is like a circel.....noone know where it started but it just keeps going round and round what if kain has always made that decision...that it was meant to be.... like it's a change but it has always been there! so it isn't a change just like it has always been :p

[Anubis_Orr]

Time doesn't operate like that in the LoK universe, time is a straight line or river, it a person goes back in time and does ANYTHING then it's different then it was before depending on their actions. It's not like a loop or else nothing else could get resolved and the unseen enemy would not be able to interfere with time and nor would Moebius

[Huncules]

lol i know what u mean and i get ur point completely but the thought of it being a lopp gives me a headache . ofcourse it would be nice if time could be changeable i'd like taht alot it would simplify the game a bit :) but thinking about the other point of view it gives me headaches :p:d:p:p:d:p

[darien_specter]

To expand on one of Anubis' points: Moebius knew Raziel's every move because his sparing Kain's life didn't change a whole lot. Even though he was supposed to kill Kain there, from then on he went right back on the course Moebius had laid out for him. Everything he did after that was unchanged - until Kain, whose existence was new here, came and saved Raziel's life. Think about this: everything in SR3 will be things that were never supposed to happen, because Raziel ought now to be dead...

[Huncules]

lol these entire forums are about assumptions :) i really hope they get us some info from the creators soon :)

[Anubis_Orr]

Personally I'd rather not know what was going to happen in the next game til I play it, ruins the experience if you expect something and sometimes it is even detrimental because you can expect too much and then be disappointed by what's in the game. Let's just call it educated guessing since we do have some of the background and information from characters' point of view we just need to fill in the blanks

[Huncules]

Hmmm hey u know if there's an e-mail adress to get some onfo out of eidos? lol if they'd give us some

[Huncules]

cmon ppl what would u like to see in the next SR or BO?:D