What would you do? (SPOILER)

[[SYN] Nexus]

What would you do if you were JCDenton at the end of DeusEx?
-Would you decide not to go further with a dictotorship and blow Area 51 into pieces resulting a global dark age
-Would you unite with Helios and try to rule the world into a new age.
-Would you murder Page and let the Illuminati rule the world once again.
-Anything else?

And why?

[[SYN] Nexus]

I would go for Helios cause I think it wouldnt be a dictatorship like the others.I dont know if any of you played the game with Paul alive (most probably lol).Just before you have to make a decision Paul will contact you with this conversation.

Paul Denton: It let me through… I can’t believe it.
JC Denton: Paul… Where are you? What do mean – “it?”
Paul Denton: Helios… it’s taken over Aquinas. Now it’s everywhere. In Hong Kong, it already has power Majestic 12 never dreamed of.
JC Denton: What’s going on? The AI wants to merge with my brain or something. Does it really think it can take over the world?
Paul Denton: It’s decided to replace human government – I don’t know why. In Hong Kong, it ordered the police to remove all barricades from the roads; traffic is flowing again. It declared the Triads illegal and locked the door to the Luminous Path compound.
JC Denton: And people are obeying? Why? Because the AI can change some codes and turn out the lights?
Paul Denton: I think everyone wants the roads to be open and trade to pick up. They just obeyed. I don’t know what to think. They trust the AI. Almost no one complained when Helios cut power to the government buildings.
JC Denton: A benevolent dictator… Maybe it’s after my brain so it can figure out what people want and hot to control them.
Paul Denton: You have a tough choice, JC. If you defeat Page, the Illuminati will move in; they’ll release Majestic 12’s grip on world governments, they’ll give people some freedom, but essentially it will be 20th-century capitalism: a corporate elite protected by laws and tax-codes.
JC Denton: Or I listen to Tong and pull the plug on everything. Or hand the world over to Helios.
Paul Denton: Well, if it’s maximum freedom we want, maybe Tong is on to something, but there must be another way besides economic collapse… If we could trust the AI to be fair and just, as it appears to be….
JC Denton: If the brain it assimilated was mine, maybe it could be.
Paul Denton: I don’t know. I wish I had an answer for you, but you’ll have to decide for yourself who you can trust.
JC Denton: Trust me: I’ll do the right thing. You sound good. I guess you have the killswitch beat.
Paul Denton: I’m much better. Yes, I’m going to make it – and you will, too. Just do what you think is right.


The AI will get rid of the violence on the street and will keep trade coming I think it would be the best option of all.

[Big Ragu]

I picked to merge so I caould be all powerful. Muwhahahahahaha! Muwhahaha!

[DarkForge]

I would personally go for the "Dark Age" ending. Purely because I didn't trust anyone else. I just had a feeling that Everett wasn't playing straight with me, and I didn't trust an AI to merge with my brain for fear of the chance of it taking over me completely.

Maybe a new Dark Age does seem a little drastic, but sometimes you have to take the chance and make the sacrifice.





Of course, when playing the game, I went through all 3 endings anyway... ;)

[Cerpin Taxt]

word @ the dark age.

[Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames]

hmmm

even if tracer tong seems the only one being honest, I wouldn't go for his ending.

there is always an ethical problem about killing a lot of innocent people to save more innocent people, and shuting down everything (even if it is "only" the global network) would mean plane crashes, problems with hospotals, etc.

and the one to suffer wouldn't be the persons who caused this problems (MJ12, Illuminati, etc) but innocent people who just depended on that system

the "fairer" solution would be helios, but then again I don't know if I can trust It, since it lacks this human component it is trying to get through merging with JC. How can I be sure that JC won't be just a corpse with only Helios in his brain, instead of JC with the power of Helios?

tough choice

[Huntress]

Absolutely, first choice...Tong! Then I did the others too just to see how it played out :)

Reason for Tong...it was just to basically put things back to get a better start for the new world. Just like it took from Christianities viewpoint of the Bible, etc. (and please I'm not on a Bible kick but did have some similarities in theology). Noah and his group as an example. Wiped out the world in a flood, took a group of ppl and started over again, etc.

Killed a lot of innocent ppl? Well I didn't and when you blew up Page's area...what innocents other than your Augmented created Brother in his tube and perhaps some scientists that were good guys, and I don't recall that his act would have blown up the whole world...just that area and Icarus and apparently himself? However I think the old saying would be true!

"The one dies to save the many"! That I believe would have to be the ultimate choice of what would be the best option IMHO :) and that's the choice I made when faced with it ;) Ta and Good Hunting!

[Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames]

Well I didn't and when you blew up Page's area...what innocents other than your Augmented created Brother in his tube and perhaps some scientists

and a few thousand persons that were in places dependant on the information system, like planes, secured areas, etc, maybe? (you shut down the whole communication system, if I remember, which is why Tong can't reach you in the end)

But neither of the three ending are consequence-free, and it's something I liked in this game. like a lot of other decisions in the game (and like in real life), they have ethical aspects, that you have to decide for yourself

[Jerre]

Tracer Tong is my personal choice, Why??? The first time i met him in hong kong I really liked him. He was friendly and he had a great view over the holl sitiuation going on. So at the end of thegame I went for tracer tong. And just like dark forge said Everett wasn't playing fair and personal I wouldn't liked it to be controled by an AI. But if there was an other choise then those 3 i would take the 4th one, because a dark age isn't really something where the world has been waiting for. But i can't say the Tracer Tong ending wasn't nice.

[Jerre]

Maby it would be good if the old Illuminatie leader would be back again in power at the end of the game. I found the guy somewhere in the house where you meet up with Everett. Somewhere in a hidden room. I descoverd him when i was playing the game for a second time. But euh i killed him:(
Is there a way to get him out,if you don't kill him?????

[Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames]

you don't have to kill him, you can just leave him where he is. but since he's asking for it,...

[Catman]

Or you can let him in on Everett's little secret and leave him to wallow in his own private hell. It's not like he's been a good person his whole life.

[Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames]

I'm not even sure that either of the options gives you experience. again, another decision that is just for your conscience to decide...

(Deus Ex, definitely my favorite game)

[Florelle]

Sam Carter would know what to do! He's the man!

[Bio Denton]

I'd let Bob Page merge with Helios and then.. What..? WHAT!?

[x Rich x]

Originally posted by Jerre
Maby it would be good if the old Illuminatie leader would be back again in power at the end of the game. I found the guy somewhere in the house where you meet up with Everett. Somewhere in a hidden room. I descoverd him when i was playing the game for a second time. But euh i killed him:(
Is there a way to get him out,if you don't kill him?????

I killed him, but then I felt really guilty when Morgan Everett contacted him. I felt really bad for killing his friend that he wanted alive. I hate this game - I'm meant to be playing as a murderer, but I can't because I feel bad for the people I kill, and their families :confused:

[Server Cerbrous]

I usually go for the merge with Helios.

The reason is I don't trust Tracer, i mean...self-sacrifice is good but global sacriifce is friggin' crazy!

I also don't like Morgan, it would lead to a repeat of the MJ12, plus: With Helios I can play God!! *Evil Laugh*

and also remember the title Deus Ex is part of 'Deus Ex Machina'- God From A Machine :p

[Orinoco]

Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
there is always an ethical problem about killing a lot of innocent people to save more innocent people, and shuting down everything (even if it is "only" the global network) would mean plane crashes, problems with hospotals, etc.


I don't think it would, all you would lose would be global communications. Imagine the world without the internet and phones and the like. Planes would not fall out of the sky, hospitals would continue to function. We'd just need to learn to write letters instead of e-mails.

Just my viewpoint

[Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames]

hmm, it would be difficult to manage all the plane traffic without any communication (and it would be hard to communicate via letters with a plane)

and I was talking about plane already in flight at the moment you shut communications down. ok it's "only" a few thousand people, compared with the billions you help, but it's still an ethical problem.

about hospitals, I think there would be a problem : power management is done today mainly with computers. computers not working mean blackouts, and even if hospital usually have emergency generators, they can't rely only on that for a very long time

and again, these are only 2 examples. there are thousands of particular situation where the decision to shut down communication will lead to death for some people.

I know humanity can survive without global communication and even electricity (after all, it has done so for 35000 years). but

- these weren't particulary happy times
- comfort isn't something you can give up easily
- major change without notice is hardly possible without any casualties

(in my opinion)

[Orinoco]

Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
major change without notice is hardly possible without any casualties


I wouldn't disagree with you, my point is that it would not be as bad as you made out.

Only global communications went through Area 51, so radio traffic from Air Traffic Control to a plane a few miles awaay would not be affected. Same argument holds true for hospitals, their local networks would be fine, but if a US hospital was managed from say Canada then I would agree.

Fortunately this is all hypothetical.

[Icarus]

I dare you, I DARE YOU ALL, to guess which ending I chose.

(I'll give you a hint, wait, no I won't MWHAHAHAHA!!)

[Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames]

hmmm Icarus being a mythological character from 2000 years ago, did you go for the new dark age ending?

no?

[Icarus]

Originally posted by Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames
hmmm Icarus being a mythological character from 2000 years ago, did you go for the new dark age ending?

no?

*As the last sylable of the word "no" escapes Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames' lips it creates a chain reaction obliterating everything in existence.*

Great, thats the second person in these forums to create universal and galactical holocaust.

[Le`Sauveur`De`Ces`Dames]

I thought I was safe, cause everything had been obliterated in the first destruction.

again I was wrong.

[Trollslayer]

What: I'd join with Helios.

Why: Because it'd be an amazing event. The union of human with machine poses many interesting questions, while transposing many barriers.

I would've liked the game to have expanded the Helios ending. Specially because we're hinted that AI's had reached quite a step up from their former primitive selves. It'd be fun to see how the higher artificial intellect would combine with the higher natural emotion.

And because i enjoy cyberpunk.

[gareis]

I'd go with the Illuminati, of course. Why? Because I'm a powerhungry fiend--erm, I mean, because it's the gentlest transition from Majestic-12. Paul implies that it'll be the same thing all over again, but I don't think that that is the case. The Illuminati seeks to govern and enlighten itself and the world, to encourage morality and promote the well-being of the world. They do so through subversive politics. Is that a bad thing? Is it any worse than forging a god for yourself or causing famines throughout the world?

[DonMega]

well since u gave the option for something else, heres what i would have really done...
1. kill page
2. keep those locks on helios
3. left the generator alone and promoted the mechanic in that room to right hand man of the world (for being the funniest character in the game i.e. calling the aliens monkeys with no hair)
4. told dowd and everett the coast was clear to come along
5. horribly murder dowd and everett on arrival, steal their wallets and shoes and rule the world hand in hand with the retarded mechanic.
haha! the ultimate DX alternative ending!

[SlicerAce]

I went for Helios my first time around. My reasoning was that the world "I" lived in was heavily dependent on the global infrastructure to conduct trade, exchange ideas, and progress society as a whole. The Tong ending was my second choice simply because it would destroy the corrupt government in place, however I think JC learned over the course of the game of humans' desire to be free. I always loved to listen to his conversations with others about certain things -- the conversation with the Australian chap when JC goes to the Red Arrow club comes to mind. JC matures during the game, and I think that that maturity is exactly what the world needs. Even if you chose the Tong option, anarchy does not gaurantee freedom/peace. A government always arises out of anarchy eventually, and there was no gaurantee that that government would be benevelent toward the governed.

The tong option is attractive simply because you risk having a malicious government form because there's a possibility a benevolent one could also form, but I think that the Helios ending provides a benevolent government that can effectively serve justice without human flaws that get in the way of our current systems. All of this without damaging the delicate infrastructure the world has built for itself.

[Stormwraith]

If I had to make the decision, I'd have to pick the Illuminati ending. I wouldn't have a problem with the global dark age, but then there's the ethical problem of murdering, if not those outside of Area 51, the (for lack of a better term) test tube babies at Area 51 (I'm still wondering how Alex survived). I think that Helios had a great idea, but I don't know how much of JC would survive mentally. And a compationless machine is not someone that I'd like ruling the world. With the Illuminati, if they double-cross me or break their promises, I can take them down (it's a lot more difficult to take out an A.I. that's infected every machine and computer globally connected than a human or group of humans).

-J-

[ZeaLitY]

Helios.

The world evolved out of city-states and became the darkness we see in Deus Ex; who says it can't simply happen again as it seems to be doing in Invisible War? Alternatively, Helios is immortal (unlike Tong and his solution) and has infinite ability. If he does become corrupt, it would be JC's fault for introducing negative human sentiments, such as revenge, anger, etc.

[Woggy]

well since u gave the option for something else, heres what i would have really done...
1. kill page
2. keep those locks on helios
3. left the generator alone and promoted the mechanic in that room to right hand man of the world (for being the funniest character in the game i.e. calling the aliens monkeys with no hair)
4. told dowd and everett the coast was clear to come along
5. horribly murder dowd and everett on arrival, steal their wallets and shoes and rule the world hand in hand with the retarded mechanic.
haha! the ultimate DX alternative ending!

LOL :D
Hand in hand with a retarded mechanic - I LOVE IT :D

[SATCOM]

I'd defintatly go with the Helios ending because I can use Bob Page to my advantage and if I'm in control of technology, if Bob Page is annoying me, I can direct telemartketer calls at him :D

Also, I don't feel like outrunning an anti-matter - matter reaction.

*boom!* http://www.hecares4u.com/smiley/run.gif http://www.hecares4u.com/smiley/xeyes.gif

Also, I think that instead of A-51 blowing up, JC-Helios just decreased worldwide bandwith or shut down half the routing capacity

[gareis]

How could you use him to your advantage? You already have Helios. Or do you mean to give him augmentations, control his mind directly, and transform him into your figurehead and political agent?

[SATCOM]

Yeah, what you said...

[Nick_the_Taurus]

I'm a bit of an anarchist myself, so the first time I played the game, I chose the dark age ending. Although, a close second would definitely be the Helios ending, plus, the Helios ending is the storyline they're useing for Invisible War.

[freespace2dotcom]

Those are tough choices, I'd go for Tong's solution to the problem. Though if it were ME in Area 51, I might not, it would depend if I could get the heck out of there in time. If I couldn't, I'd probably just let Page do his thing and in return, take control of the continental 'states and maybe Japan, since both are leaders in world economy. Merging with an AI is out of the question, as I would not like to have something take over my mind in the slightest. And while I'm not against allying myself with the illuminati, I don't like their plans for the world. Still, though. No. 1 choice is Tong's option, simply because people should be able to live the way they want. The only downside is that the player risks dying by doing so

[gareis]

Why not join the Illuminati and stab them in the back so hard that their children have holes in their chests? Then you have complete freedom, no stodgy remnants seeking the return of a bygone era to get in your way.

[FlatFoot]

Would have been interesting to have choice 4 be to ally one's self with Page. What an interesting end movie *that* would have made.

If you think about it none of the choices are really great so if you have any concience at all you're left with picking what you think might be the least harmful of the 3.

When I first played the game I took Tong's choice. "It's all messed up so just blow the whole thing and start from scratch!" Only problem with this choice is that millions would die from hunger and disease. With no global communications food, medicines and other supplies would be unreachable. It would be a dark age indeed--and people would drop like flies just as they did in the European dark ages.

It would also be a brutish existance and feudal in more than one sense of the word. Sooner or later people would start establishing trade relations with other villages, towns and cities. People would miss and desire the things that better and wider communication could bring to them. This would start everything all over again and in a matter of time another Bob Page would arise to control another global commo network.

Trouble with handing the world back over to the Illuminati would be that this would set up a potential Page-like takeover of the nets yet again. Difference being that the potential for such a takeover and a return to the state of affairs at the end of the game could come sooner rather than later.

Merging with Helios isn't perfect but to me it's the least harmful of all the endings. Possibly by doing this you could balance out the opposing forces and come up with something that would give everyone at least part of what they want rather than the 'all or nothing' aproach.

[fishy]

I joined with Helios the first time, although back then it was just because i thought it was cool... Last time i played after a long time of not playing i decided to join with Helios again, because the Dark Age didn't work the first time, eventuallly it would all go back to what it is today, or turn wurse. The Dark Age was a age were Lords ruled the lands, were people were opressed and had to do what others wanted them to do or be killed. In those days that would mean Strong Company's, army's and people in controll of any organisation with weapons would rule the city's.

It would be a terrible place to live in, the strongest would rule the weakest. Not like Tong wanted not with Goverments that cared about and listend to its people, but goverments that would shoot its people if they didn't listen. The people wouldn't have a choice and it wouldn't be like anybody could ever stop them anyway. Big chance MJ-12 and the Illuminati would still gain huge controll of area's in the world, just not with a Global Network...

The Illiminati well no thanks, i never been much of a fan of the goverments of this centuary, really they screw up everything anyway, the Illiminati would just keep it like it is these days, and honestly i wouldn't mind some change. Then it basicly leaves me with Helios, sure not a good choice, afterall all of humanity is at its mercy, every computer in its control, and pretty much all of the world depands on computers, but that power could also do much good, atleast with a AI you can hope it doesn't have the ambition to make himself look more important and better then anybody or have the best stuff. So its the lesser of evils, atleast i think it is..

[daff]

Magnificent! I have just reached the point where I must choose. The way I see it, the choice resides upon three political extremities:

Progressive: Join with Helios and realise the ultimate goal of the Enlightenment; the centralisation of global government based on pure reason. The ultimate manifestation of the Panopticon, a non-bureaucratic(?) and ideology-free(?) intellectual elite (ie. Savage) manages local affairs and education and opportunity is universal.

Conservative: Open the doors for the Illuminati to maintain subversive and corporate governance. Consumption continues to dominate the social experience of the wealthy and middle classes and the economic gap continues to broaden. Political democracy continues to function through rhetoric of good and evil. In my opinion, highly undesirable.

Regressive: Far from anarchic, a new dark age hails a neo-feudalism, where underground and criminal (ie. Triads in Hong Kong) groups come to power and dominate through coercion and intimidation. As communication is restructured, newly reformed nation states vie for global dominance with the potential for another devastating global conflict.

This is my interpretation, any thoughts on it would be interesting.

Incidently, I think I have decided to join with Helios.

Cheers.

[iamf1sh]

i kno its long, please just read it anyway.


I chose Helios every time I play the game.

What it comes down to is weather people or machines are greater/better...

First, Tong believed that the machines were useless and that we were better off without them. But invention is inevitable, and is a part of our nature. Eventually we would again regain all the technology we had. This is just a loop. Not only this, but it suggests that the choices the human race has made since the dark ages, were wrong and now we need a second chance.
It wasn't the machines fault. People made them because of their lust for power. The human factor is at fault and that is what needs to be changed. Technology is the easiest way to gain power (I think Dowd says something about how Page discovers how “knowledge is power” when your talking to him @ Osgood n‘ Sons). Destroying all that we have accomplished since the dark ages (and they definitely were accomplishments) would only lose all of the progress we have made.
Also, Tong thinks that a global government is more tyrannical then a small one. This is not by any means true. There is no reason why a smaller government would be less oppressive than a large one. The best rulers of our time were not during the dark ages, that's why they were called the dark ages. It shouldn’t be considered the golden age of man. Sorry if this offends anyone, but it doesn‘t seem as if Tong is thinking this through.

Second, the members of the Illuminate are no improvement. They would simply return the world to the state it was already in before the game started, implying that it would be better if none of this had happened and that Page and Denton shouldn't have been born (my wording may be bit unclear, what I mean is if the best thing that can happen is for the present day gov. to be rebuilt, then basically, the best thing would be for the circumstances leading up to the game never to have taken place. It would mean that the only point of the game was would be for it to be over and for the player to pretend it never happened). This is also a loop. As I believe Paul said, we‘d just be going back the old century conspirators.
I also doubt the Illuminati's ability to rebuild the world. They seem as if they only really have the power to manipulate the system but not the power to rebuild the system. Personally, I also believe that they can’t be trusted. J.C. could end up like Luscious Debeers (forgive me if I spelled his name wrong).

Finally, Helios is the best choice. This is the only option that were the human race moves forward and evolves. In both Tong and Everett's solutions are just to start over, but by joining with Helios, the human race evolves and takes the next step. ( an interesting side note, while your talking to Helios at the end of the game, there are numerous references to “the dawning of a new day” and progression stuff like that). Throughout the game there is the theme of evolution: augmented people replace normal troops, you replace Paul, Page replaces you etc.. I doesn‘t make sense to me that the Ion Storm would make show the this process of evolution if it wasn‘t meant to continue. To sum it up. if this option isn’t chosen, it essentially voids the entire game and takes away the meaning of everything you’ve done.
The only moral issue to accepting this is that it also means accepting that humans are inferior to machines. It means admitting that our purpose was to create HelioJCDmergything. Its hard to accept that the best choice for the human race is a dictatorship by a foreign being. It means that we would be better off if we hadden‘t been given free will and god (modern equivalent: Helios/JCD) had continued to rule over us.
All of the oppression of history was caused by the human lust for power. The governments we consider good are the ones with the checks and balances system, but as Helios said, the checks and balances system was created when people realized how unfit they were to govern themselves.

The second time I played this game, I almost chose the Tong one in the spirit of free will because I believed that people deserved a second chance to better themselves, but then I thought that they deserved a good leader even more. The other options just prevent and prolong this from happening.

If JC was supposed to be there, he was supposed to be the mesiah (dont know how to spell it) like the old JC and bring the world into a new mesiahic age.

I am aware that I may be thinking about this too much but I do not have the ability to get it out of my head unless I write it down.

Its a very hard decision with loses no matter what you do.
I luuuuuuuuve this game.

-if you have ANY comments, post them. Id like to hear what people think.

(i definitely agree with what u said Daff)

[TheGrayfox]

Originally posted by [SYN] Nexus
I would go for Helios cause I think it wouldnt be a dictatorship like the others.I dont know if any of you played the game with Paul alive (most probably lol).Just before you have to make a decision Paul will contact you with this conversation.

Paul Denton: It let me through… I can’t believe it.
JC Denton: Paul… Where are you? What do mean – “it?”
Paul Denton: Helios… it’s taken over Aquinas. Now it’s everywhere. In Hong Kong, it already has power Majestic 12 never dreamed of.
JC Denton: What’s going on? The AI wants to merge with my brain or something. Does it really think it can take over the world?
Paul Denton: It’s decided to replace human government – I don’t know why. In Hong Kong, it ordered the police to remove all barricades from the roads; traffic is flowing again. It declared the Triads illegal and locked the door to the Luminous Path compound.
JC Denton: And people are obeying? Why? Because the AI can change some codes and turn out the lights?
Paul Denton: I think everyone wants the roads to be open and trade to pick up. They just obeyed. I don’t know what to think. They trust the AI. Almost no one complained when Helios cut power to the government buildings.
JC Denton: A benevolent dictator… Maybe it’s after my brain so it can figure out what people want and hot to control them.
Paul Denton: You have a tough choice, JC. If you defeat Page, the Illuminati will move in; they’ll release Majestic 12’s grip on world governments, they’ll give people some freedom, but essentially it will be 20th-century capitalism: a corporate elite protected by laws and tax-codes.
JC Denton: Or I listen to Tong and pull the plug on everything. Or hand the world over to Helios.
Paul Denton: Well, if it’s maximum freedom we want, maybe Tong is on to something, but there must be another way besides economic collapse… If we could trust the AI to be fair and just, as it appears to be….
JC Denton: If the brain it assimilated was mine, maybe it could be.
Paul Denton: I don’t know. I wish I had an answer for you, but you’ll have to decide for yourself who you can trust.
JC Denton: Trust me: I’ll do the right thing. You sound good. I guess you have the killswitch beat.
Paul Denton: I’m much better. Yes, I’m going to make it – and you will, too. Just do what you think is right.


The AI will get rid of the violence on the street and will keep trade coming I think it would be the best option of all.


WHAT THE HECK???!!! Paul alive? How?! Every time I get to that area it's always Dr. Savage who comes through and not Paul...Paul is dead, you can't save him...I mean he's dead in the MJ12 lab? How did he show up for you? I played the game three times and every time there is no way to save Paul, it's always Savage saying that.

[iamf1sh]

to get paul to live, all you have to do is...

kill EVERYONE in the ton'.
kill EVERYONE outside on the streets.
kill EVERYONE anywhere else.

If you do this, paul will be able to get out alive.

save just before you leave, if herman tells you paul is dead, go back to your save, you missed someone.

[RobK]

No you don't lol

As long as you don't go out the window of his apartment, Paul will live. I got "killed" in the 'Ton after talking with Paul, and he's still alive and kicking.

Hey here's a question (since I've never done this before): I just ran away from Gunther in the Knights Templar cathedral, does he ever pop up again?

[RobK]

Originally posted by gareis
I'd go with the Illuminati, of course. Why? Because I'm a powerhungry fiend--erm, I mean, because it's the gentlest transition from Majestic-12. Paul implies that it'll be the same thing all over again, but I don't think that that is the case. The Illuminati seeks to govern and enlighten itself and the world, to encourage morality and promote the well-being of the world. They do so through subversive politics. Is that a bad thing? Is it any worse than forging a god for yourself or causing famines throughout the world?

I think this is a matter of choosing the least of the evils.


The worldwide famine and death of countless thousands is morally impermissible. But the end of Area 51 would mean an end of dictatorship.

The Illuminati would puppet the world in their own self interest and toward their own ideologies, but the ends don't justify the means. This ending also means a return to 'apparent'
financial stability.

The Helios merger would create a new world dictator, the first fusion of the mind of man and mind of machine. On the other hand, he would be the world's first truly benevolent dictator.



Personally, I prefer the Helios ending. It involves the least of the moral wrongs that would ensue in the aftermath of either of the other choices, as I see it.

[brangdon]

I'd like to go for the Helios ending, but my fear would prevent me. I could never be sure the computer understood the difference between "merging" and "eating".

So it would have to be the Illuminatus. It's the only option which isn't an actual disaster. It's just more of what is already working so well today.

The history of the world is the history of the warfare between secret societies.

[TheGrayfox]

Well I usually do the Tong ending or the Helios ending. While the merge with Helios sounds great, I don't know if I want to put the fate of the world in the hands of an AI merged with a nano-augmented person. To be honest it doesn't sound like something JC would really do.

The Illuminati, well I think the ending with JC gives it away that he isn't entirely comfortable of what he has done..."But who are we, who are we really?".

I personally like the Tracer Tong ending. First of all, he was a true ally throughout most of the game. He's also not selfish, he himself has the Gray Death and is asking you to get rid of it all, Gray Death, Cure, everything, start all over.

I also choose the Tracer Tong ending for the following reason:

Have any of you read the comic book "V for Vendetta" by Alan Moore, the guy who also wrote Swamp Thing, League of Extraordinary Gentleman, and of course The Watchmen. Well in V for Vendetta, the story line reminds me somewhat of Deus Ex (YOU HAVE TO READ THIS GRAPHIC NOVEL IT'S GREAT). In the comic V says that there are two kinds of leaders of people, both important to the other and to civilization.

The first are those who destroy and kill. They get rid of the old so that the other kinds of people can rebuild and build it better. V plays the part of the destroyer while his predecesor plays the part of rebuilding society.

I think Deus Ex is the same...I think JC's role in the first one was to destroy everything first so that we could rebuild it again. Therefore, I believe Alex is there to rebuild on top of the old.

Just my 2 cents...but seriously go out and get "V for Vendetta" best comic ever written.

[Simetrical]

A summary of the endings, in my opinion: Helios is a risk, Illuminati isn't, and Dark Age is insanity.


Let me explain. Helios has potential for either good or evil—but whichever one it is will be eternal. Helios will be able to connect up with some UC's, if he wasn't already connected, and then he'll be able to make endless robotic minions to take control of the entire world. Forever. He'll have enough power to get started just through his control over networks, he'll be able to solidify his power base across a fair bit of the world before those parts will be able to break away from the network, and since he'll be watching everyone constantly, no one will be able to organize resistance. (Once his control is sufficient, he'll integrate all local network into the global network and add more security cameras and such, making NSF-type resistance impossible.) So, if you trust Helios, this will result in eternal happiness for humanity. If you don't, this will result in eternal tyranny.

This is the one I chose. I felt that Helios would rule justly.


The Illuminati ending, on the other hand, just returns things to normal. MJ12 will have lost its control of the world—for now—and the Illuminati will be relatively benign, but eventually you'll have tyranny again. No risk—you're pretty sure it'll be better than MJ12—but no real potential for gain, either. Things will return to the same old problems again. You'll die eventually, or maybe even be betrayed like poor Lucius, and all your efforts will be erased. No human organization can persist indefinitely. MJ12 sprung from the Illuminati once, and it could do so again. Helios sprung from advanced technology, and it would do so again. Nothing would be solved permanently, only temporarily.


The Dark Age is just crazy. I don't know what people are thinking—that the entire global economy will crumble into nothing with no Internet? That everyone who formerly worked in any technology sector will vanish? That MJ12 will disappear without Page?

Truth is, the only technology that might be lost, assuming MJ12 didn't back up all their data somewhere outside of A51, is the very most sophisticated. All the technology that created the network will remain, and almost all of the lines will as well (the only ones gone will be the ones immediately surrounding A51). It wouldn't take more than a few weeks to create a rudimentary Internet again, and a few years to bring it up to pretty much its former strength. Furthermore, there will be enough MJ12 officers left that at best, it will split into several factions—all military (and paramilitary) groups have a chain of command, so removing a few people won't affect them much.

The Dark Age would accomplish nothing whatsoever. It wouldn't eliminate MJ12, it wouldn't eliminate advanced technology, it wouldn't eliminate large governments, it wouldn't eliminate a global economy, nothing. I can't believe so many people missed this.

[iamf1sh]

a lot of people seem to be posting things like: the bond w/ helios would destoy jc's mind, the illuminate might night be successful, shutting down area 51 wouldn't fufill tongs vision etc.

Of course this is all true, but what the final choice should be about is which is the best solution. Not which solution would work. What i mean is, the decision shouldn't be if wheather or not doing an action will yield the intended results, it should be about which vision for the future, if completed successfully, is right.

[DaedalusXXX]

I went with the new dark age. Kinda cool to see awesome civilization to get wasted in one moment.

[Night Mage]

I'd put Helios back to the Stone Age.

Wipe out Mr Bob

And pop a cap in tracers @$$

They're all out of my idea of an ideal world. The world imho would work best with an untouchable fanatasist (aka Osama Bin Laden) but fighting for a good cause.

If we were all fanatasists for Tony Blair there would be little anyone could do to stop us, terrorrism is a strong form of attack and in a world where the good are larger in number and "terrorists" to evil then it is unstoppable.

Jc Denton kills them all, takes charge and leads the world into the light through fear and sensible economic moves.

Sort of like a communist-fanatasists-dictatorship.

Mage :)

[Kex]

hmmmmmmmmmmm, well if i got to chose ANY, i would go with DonMega's, think someone should make that into a Mod just for a laugh :D first time i finished it paul was dead, and i merged with helios, then second time paul was alive and i went with tracer, THEN i FINALY went with my favorite choice with the iluminati, MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA rulin the world with them would kik a$$,
plus ive done all invisable wars endins too, and well.....

dunno if i should realy spoil it for anyone who hasnt done it, someone post again to tell me im alowed to tell all about it :D

[Sadokitty]

*Looks at the amount of votes for Helios ruling the world*
wtf is it with all you geeks, so willing to be told what to do by a computer program :p

Illuminatii all the way.

[Gruf]

I usually go either illuminati or helios, with the illuminati ending you could eventually build up the power to the levels you'd have with the helios, without the computer in your head thing...

new dark age, I tried it once, meh

[Skanky Burns]

Another +1 for Helios.

To my mind, the other two options aren't a solution.

The dark age idea follows the "people stuck in a black box seperated from each other can't hurt each other" idea. True, but nor can they help each other. Besides, the first thing people would do with the communitcation network down would be to start building a new one. We would be back in the same situation very soon, only having paid for it with untold innocent lives.

Then the illuminati ending we are promoting the same situation that led to our initial problems. Secrecy means no accountability, hence no responsibility. It wouldn't take long for the system to start being abused by individuals.

This leaves a global dictatorship in the form of me. :D

[RECLAIMER214]

OBVIOUSLY HELIOS AND JC COMBINED TOLD ME "WHAT COULD GO WRONG?"

THEN I REMEMBERED THE MATRIX SO I JUST SAID SCREW IT THAT MOVIE WAS COOL SO THIS WILL BE COOL