Malak Can Not Be!

[Raziel'sRevenge]

MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD!


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First of all, sorry if I spelled Malak's name wrong, but I've found something that really confuses me! I just defeated Blood Omen(That's right, the first one) and I found something that doesn't make sense to me. In Blood Omen, you get to see Vorador attack and kill six of the circle of nine, then Malak comes rushing in and fights Vorador. Malak loses, but is not killed, however, for his failure to protect the circle Mortainus(sorry about the spelling) "denies him the pleasures of the flesh", by that I mean that Mortainus rips Malak's soul out of his still living body and fuses it with his armor. This all made perfect sense to me, but when I beat SR2 again I was confused by my new knolege of Nosgoths past. You see, at the end of SR2 Raziel kills his "Former vamperic brothers", and this includes Malak! But if Raziel kills Malak then Vorador couldn't of fought him! And if Vorador fought Malak first then he never would of been killed by Raziel! AND if Malak's soul was bound to the armor then there wouldn't of been a body for Kain to use to bring Malak back to life as a vampire, even though he can be clearly seen in the begining of SR1!!! If anyone knows how all of these events could take place without offsetting each other then PLEASE TELL ME!!!

[Apocrypha Roxy]

Originally posted by Raziel'sRevenge
First of all, sorry if I spelled Malak's name wrong, but I've found something that really confuses me! I just defeated Blood Omen(That's right, the first one) and I found something that doesn't make sense to me. In Blood Omen, you get to see Vorador attack and kill six of the circle of nine, then Malak comes rushing in and fights Vorador. Malak loses, but is not killed, however, for his failure to protect the circle Mortainus(sorry about the spelling) "denies him the pleasures of the flesh", by that I mean that Mortainus rips Malak's soul out of his still living body and fuses it with his armor. This all made perfect sense to me, but when I beat SR2 again I was confused by my new knolege of Nosgoths past. You see, at the end of SR2 Raziel kills his "Former vamperic brothers", and this includes Malak! But if Raziel kills Malak then Vorador couldn't of fought him! And if Vorador fought Malak first then he never would of been killed by Raziel! AND if Malak's soul was bound to the armor then there wouldn't of been a body for Kain to use to bring Malak back to life as a vampire, even though he can be clearly seen in the begining of SR1!!! If anyone knows how all of these events could take place without offsetting each other then PLEASE TELL ME!!!


Firstly, it's Malek. :)

When Raziel kills his forver vampiric brethren, he meant the Lieutenants, but collectively he meant the Sarafan Knights. This included Malek, to some extent. In SR1, the Tomb of the Sarafan, you see the brethren's caskets, as well as a place for Malek - but Malek never had a casket (he was never technically buried).

But Raziel never killed Malek. Malek ran to the Circle after Moebius stalled him as long as he needed, fell into battle with Vorador, was struck down, and then punished by Morty.

Vorador killed him - but this is 500 years in the future, when Kain is a fledgling. (Remember, you're thinking of the SR2 era in which Janos is murdered and the Circle is slaughtered. Also keep in mind that it was Moebius, Malek, and Mortanius that survived, for collective reasons - Ariel was born LATER ON, contrary to some thoughts). And we also don't know what happened to Malek - we got his helmet, but we never found out the result of the duel between he and Vorador. Obviously, Vorador survived. Who knows?

And as for the Malek vampire you refer to - that's Morlock. Supposedly one of Turel's decendants. But we never met Turel then. We will (hopefully, it's in the cards).

Hoped that cleared some things up for you. :)

[PhoenixReaver]

To put it simply: Malek was not part of Raziel's Sarafan group. Yes, he was a Sarafan, but he was not part of Raziel, Turel, Dumah and the gang who went after Janos, and got killed by wraith Raziel.

Therefore, Malek was never one of Kain's vampiric lieutenants. Malek lived only one life. Sarafan warrior-priest -> living armor -> slain by Vorador.

[KoolKat]

I think you are referring to Melchiah or Morlock, RR, cos Malek never becomes one of the Vampire lieutenants.

Btw, PR, I'm sure that Malek was a Sarafan brother or he would not have had his name in the brotherhood tomb (despite not having a coffin).

[PhoenixReaver]

Well, he was a powerful and respected Sarafan, chief protector of the Circle.

But he was not part of Raziel's "inquisitor" group - the group that followed wraith Raziel and killed Janos.

[Raziel'sRevenge]

Oh, now I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[KoolKat]

I can see what you mean, PR, but what if he was part of the group, but by SR2, he had been plucked out and told to stand close guard whilst Vorador was at large? Only an idea, but y'never know.

[Apocrypha Roxy]

Malek lived 530 years longer than the Brethren - namely because he was fused to armor. I'm thinking that the tomb may have been prepared long before the brethren were dead - but the span between Raz & Co's deaths, and that of Malek's, let it be forgotten. Remember that also the Sarafan had collapsed quickly following the death of the Inquisition.

Plus, they never found ol' Malek's body. Or armor. Whatever was left.

So 530 years is a long time to remember a dead order's sacred tomb. Except for Kain. But he's a special case, you know. :)

[chuffy]

and just to make it a little more confusing, malek was part of the circle of nine.

the piller of conflict i believe, you take his helmet to restore the piller

chuffy

[Apocrypha Roxy]

That too, Chuffy...

[Omni_Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Apocrypha Roxy
That too, Chuffy... Chuffy ? lol whats Chuffy

[The Amazing Rando]

the name of the member who posted just above what you quoted.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by The Amazing Rando
the name of the member who posted just above what you quoted.

**shakes head**

In regards to the topic, I don't think there is much more Malek can accomplish in the storyline. Perhaps maybe a brief mention of what became of his remains, but we certainly don't need to focus on it as we have in the past.

[Omega]

I believe Malek was the creator of the Sarafan?

Hence the Conflict Guardian...

But, on topic...

Malek did not fight Raziel at the end of SR2... I'm not entirely sure how a soul-in-armour could be killed by Vorador... but, anyhow.

What I was going to say was, that I can understand where your coming from. In SR1 we see the Sarafan Tomb with Malek's (empty) coffin, so Goddess knows what's happened to him.

[The Amazing Rando]

I could have sworn I replied to this once before (when we explained with pics-not my above responce this time), but Malek did not have a coffin in the Sarafan tomb. His name was listed but that's it. There was no body there. His soul was fused to the armor and defeted by V (which shouldn't be changed IMO). He had his name listed because he was a great Sarafan warrior, it was a respect type thing.

He was part of the Circle, and the Circle created the Sarafan. He was a part of the Sarafan, and I think he went on Vampire hunting cruisades, but not with Raz & co. He did not fight Raz at the end of Sr2, nor was he at Janos' place in Sr2. He was guardian of the circle, which is why he was fused to his armor (when he failed-due to being help back by Moe).

His body is either still chained up where the fusing ritual took place, or frozen in his Bastion, but it's not sure which is which.

[Umah Bloodomen]

I assumed his actual body remained beneath Avernus, while his armor rests in Dark Eden where he was defeated by Vorador.

[The Amazing Rando]

So what about the comment of looking at your own corpse day after day or whatever, with the frozen corpse on the throne in his Bastion. I don' have the actual quote on me at the moment, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Edit: Aha! Now (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?threadid=19572&highlight=malek) I know why this sounded so familiar to me.

[Umah Bloodomen]

The dialogue there at Malek's Bastion reads:



BO dialogue courtesy of Nosgothic Realm
Malek: I know you are here, demon. The stench of death clings to you.

Kain: The interior was as cold and sterile as the snow outside, with empty suits of armor and sharp, cruel steel lining the walls.

Malek: My warriors are but shadows of my skill, child.

Kain discovers the first minion generation room:

Kain: The towering metal structure gave birth to these wraiths. I could hazard only a guess at its function: fusing the souls of long dead warriors to their armor, so that they may do battle once again.

Life without blood. What a travesty!

Each time Kain silences one of the generators, he receives a taunt:

Malek: Do you hope to best me, Kain? Do not worry. Your challenge will not go unmet.

Your undeath does not make you immortal, vampire.

Come to slay the slayer of vampires, have you?

Finding a secret door that leads to the power source of the machines:

Kain: The globe powered the machinery. With its destruction, the deafening shrieks of the machines ceased to echo throughout the bastion. It was now time to silence the machines’ maker.

Malek: You try my patience, fledgling. Care to try my blade instead?

Kain: My eyes yearned from lack of contrast, my mouth ached for want of blood. In this cold wasteland, food was scarce, and my hunger grew.

Entering the heart of the Bastion:

The guards at the gate offered no resistance; they were frozen solid and dead as they stood, their flesh welded to the cold metal of their armor . . .

Kain: A corpse held court on a tattered throne, grinning malignantly at me through blackened teeth.

Malek: It is not often that a man sees his own corpse, it is a sobering experience. But I am far less interested in my own corpse than I am in yours. Prepare yourself, vampire.

I've always considered this an error in continuity to be honest with you. Realistically, Mortanius was a bit ticked at Malek in the first place so he would not be the likely candidate to return Malek's corpse to the Bastion, nor would he order anyone else to do it. I have played with the notion of either Malek himself or Moebius being the one to return the corpse to the Bastion (without anyone knowing), but that's purely speculative at this point.

EDIT: Added warp's notion of Malek returning his own corpse.

[The Amazing Rando]

I figure it's a continuity error as well, but either could be the real body, tho I suspect it's under Avernus as well. Different people interpret things differently, however.

Edit: thanks for the dialog, I got sidetracked on my way to get it.

[warpsavant]

Maybe Malek brought his own corpse back there. Or Turelzevir! I would keep in mind that it is explicitly stated to be his corpse in the bastion, and nothing is said about who's skeleton is beneath Avernus.

:p

Edit: Error my arse. :)

[The Amazing Rando]

I have factored that in as well warp, so it could very well be in the bastion. It's just that we saw it go 'sploadie and only be bones, and the corpse in the Bastion still has skin and flesh and stuff. Maybe Morty used his magic to piece it together and gave it to Malek for their 500 year Anniversary of serving the Pillars together.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by warpsavant
Maybe Malek brought his own corpse back there. Or Turelzevir! I would keep in mind that it is explicitly stated to be his corpse in the bastion, and nothing is said about who's skeleton is beneath Avernus.

:p

Edit: Error my arse. :)

I was just going to edit my statment to include that notion as well, warp. Turelzevir's elusive appearance in the original game better be touched on in LOKD, that's all I have to say. :D

[warpsavant]

Hrm. He did kind of explode, didn't he? Only thing I can come up with is that thats not really malek in the cutscene...I mean, maybe Malek was in the Bastion, and then Morte somehow tore his soul from his body and brought it to that place, kind of like how he met Kain in the Underworld and pulled the swrod out. Ok, I know! I sniffed too much glue today, leave me alone.

[Umah Bloodomen]

I revert to my notion of an error in continuity thank you. ;)

[The Amazing Rando]

I don't want to poke holes, but why would Malek be at his bastion without his armor? Doesn't seem like a smar tthing to do. Hm, Maybe Malek tried to make himself another body somehow-and that's what the machines were for. He was just trying to figure out a way to transfer back? I got nothin.

Edit: I figured it out. That was the hylden's plan, the end of sr2-it brought Malek back. We do know that it's the right time for Defiance. The dark forces knew that Kain couldn't take out Malek, even as evolved as he is. Only V knew how (maybe a spell/dark gift or magic item that Kain didn't know about) could do the job. They unleash him, and it's more deadly than the ultimate weapon in BO2, just slower. :D We've seen other apparently dead people return with a vengeance, why not him.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by The Amazing Rando
I don't want to poke holes, but why would Malek be at his bastion without his armor? Doesn't seem like a smar tthing to do. Hm, Maybe Malek tried to make himself another body somehow-and that's what the machines were for. He was just trying to figure out a way to transfer back? I go tnothin.

He was there with his armor. Remember that you fight him for a bit, but can't do anything to him, and flee, before meeting up with him again at Dark Eden.

For all we know, he was communicating telepathically.

[The Amazing Rando]

Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
He was there with his armor. Remember that you fight him for a bit, but can't do anything to him, and flee, before meeting up with him again at Dark Eden.

For all we know, he was communicating telepathically.

I meant that in response to warp's idea that it wasn't Maelk in the cutscene. His armor was there, but he wasn't sounded kinda fishy to me.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Uh huh... I think I'll just leave that one alone. :D

[warpsavant]

What, you think Kain showed up in the Underword in his Armor, too?

Malek was probably just chillin with some girls he met at one of the brothels, when Morty rips his soul from his body and then he just appears all decked out like the Guardian of Conflict he is. Just like Kain looked all pretty in the Underworld. (despite the sword in his belly) And theres a connection, because they are both chained up.

[Umah Bloodomen]

So does that mean that Malek's armor constitutes being a form of Bling Bling? :D

[The Amazing Rando]

Are you suggesting that it's really Kain's corpse under Avernus? :eek: That would mean that he is really a wraith-thingy too, only still a blood drinker, and would explain why Raz turned into what he did and why the brothers could shift. It's all so clear now.

I bet this will mean Kain's invincible if he gets ahold of the wraith reaver. Wraith Raz (soul drinker) +BR (blood drinker)=invincability.

So by the same logic: Wraith Kain (blood drinker) + WR (soul eater)...:D

[warpsavant]

No, the corpse under Avernus is Evil Vampire Lt Raziel, son of Evil Janos from the Demon Realm.

[Umah Bloodomen]

**draws gun and aims at warp and Rando**

Alright, boys. Put the glue (markers, paint thinner, nail polish remover, aerosol cans etc.) down and step away, s-l-o-w-l-y. No one has to get hurt here. :p

EDIT: Covered the basic inhalants.

[The Amazing Rando]

Maybe the corpse on the throne is a really detailed doll made by Elzevir then. Or another Malek brought there by Moe (like the future Kain thing you fight).

Edit: i don't have no glue. All I've got is a marker that smells liek spray paint. ;)

[Umah Bloodomen]

Um, I don't think that would be a doll then necessarily. It's more of a G.I Joe or something. :D

[The Amazing Rando]

LAst time I checked, Elzevir didn't work for McFarlane toys. He was Elzevir the doll maker. I don't think he branched off into plastic Action figures with kung-fu grips.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by The Amazing Rando
LAst time I checked, Elzevir didn't work for McFarlane toys. He was Elzevir the doll maker. I don't think he branched off into plastic Action figures with kung-fu grips.

Last time I checked, McFarlane didn't make G.I. Joe toys either. **coughcoughHasbrocoughcough*** ;)

Besides, it's not PC anymore for Elzevir to make dolls. He's resorted to calling himself a Toy Specialist. :p

[warpsavant]

I still think Malek was chillin on the throne with girls from the brothel when Morty rudely ripped his soul from his body and brought it to wherever he was when he was naked and tied up and fused to the Armor. That skeleton under Avernus must belong to someone else.

[The Amazing Rando]

lol, I bet he was behind that dang beanie baby craze too. He is just plain eeeeeeeeeevil. We did nothing to deserve something so drastic.

And how come I get the feeling that such an upstanding citizen like Elzevir doesn't care if he's PC or not. I've never really thought he'd care about others' opinions. I thought he was above such things, but you're making it sound like he sold out.:D

Edit; warp, didn't the cutscene show the soul floating from the exploading body to the armor tho? I just can't go on thinking that his body just pieced itself back together and found its way to Malek's place. If the soul doesn't float there, then i guess it could be someone else and Morte was just multitasking.

[jesta]

two things to think aout
1: Malek was one of the greatest and most Ruthless vapire slayers of his time as it states in the game the hair on his helmet was torn from the scalps of his victims (nasty)

2:the only piller guardian that had not been born into the roll (that we know off)

i beleve the fact that he has a place in the tomb is a token jesture and find it quite ironic as he was still around for over 500 years after Raz and co die tho they ould have put his body back in his bastion to serve as a reminder for future ocasions. tho i find that would probly be a bit much.

just wondering my self why he never ratted moby out by saying hang on a minute here, he held me up.

i would have:D

I oftern wonder if Vorador got the blame for Razel and the rest of the leutenant's death???

[Zephonim]

Who is Turelzever ,dont think ive heard of him or is he just a made up name by the forum folks:D

[Umah Bloodomen]

The Official Legacy of Turelzevir site. (http://members.aol.com/turelzevir/)

[Apocrypha Roxy]

Whoever made those trailers is a very sick individual...

GENIUS!

:p