What happened to tradition?

[Bloodspawn]

What happened to Lara's go to, and signature double pistols??? Has it come down to swapping crap for bullets at pawn shops? Not impressed. Why did Core change the game controller configuration from Tomb Raider's traditional, to what we obviously have as an inferior, unchangeable default now? That sucks!!! Now I have to continually fight the camera angles as everything is in reverse. I think Core has been reading the forum pages to much, as per their decision to scap the fomer version which was to be reliesed around Christmas, as has been the traditional reliese date for most of the previeous TR serries, to a half a year later. They have had four years to get this right. On the positive side, the graphic quaulity is second to none. I guess I'm just sentimental taditionalist, but why mess with a winning formula?

[Katie_Tomb_Raider]

I agree with the pistols thing -- but I really enjoyed the last few levels in TR5 when Lara didn't have them -- it made the game more challenging. She'll still have them in the game, but just not handy whenever you feel like shooting those little bugs that fly around :D

[XanderD2]

Originally posted by Bloodspawn
why mess with a winning formula?

That's a question I kept asking of myself.

[Mangar The Dark]

Originally posted by Bloodspawn
why mess with a winning formula?

It's a gamble they had to take, and unfortunately, it sounds like they lost. If they released a carbon copy of the previous TR games with the only improvement being better graphics, they would have been crucified by both gamers and reviewers. Let's face it, the only people who would have accepted another run-of-the-mill TR game would have been the die-hard fans (i.e. the people on this forum.) Releasing the level editor with Chronicles made it impossible for them to release another standard TR game. Who would pay for one when we can just download free levels?

So, what do they do? They had to think how to take TR and change it so the player has an all-new experience, but so that it still, in some way, resembles the old TR. On paper, their ideas sounded great. I was thrilled with the concept when I first read about it, especially since it was EXACTLY like an idea I had back in 1997 (my friend and I said, "wouldn't it be cool to have a TR style game with adventure game elements, such as being able to talk to other characters?" We then even came up with a "wrongfully accused of murder" plot-- I swear, I kid you not!! You can imagine how my eyes popped out of my head when I read what AOD would be about! The main difference was that my idea was set in the middle ages and did not star Lara Croft.)

Anyway, I think most of us here thought the premise sounded fantastic, and that's why we were so excited about it being released. It sounds to me like the problem came in the execution of the idea. What a shame.

[T_Rex]

I definetly agree that Eidos messed with a winning formula and is dissapointing us 'old-school' tomb raiders.

I pride myself on being able to say that I started playing Tomb Raider when it first came out on the Playstation, and I played each game, in order of release, since then. And Tomb Raider 1 is still my favorite game ever! Sure it didnt have the big graphics and she didnt even have a flowing pony tail, but it was completely groundbreaking. TR2 and TR3 followed the same exact formula and I couldnt be happier with those games either. I still try to make time to play them over and over again.

Then something happened around The Last Revelation, the storyline changed, it wasnt the Tomb Raider "Three Chapter" story set up. I still like Last Revelation alot, much more than Chronicles, but when I play it, it just feels different. And Chronicles, while being a fun game to play, completely lost all story and plot elements that were so strong in the first 3 games.

Maybe they got new managment at Eidos? Maybe new game writers? Who knows. But it is very sad that I dont believe that we will ever have another winning combination like that of the original 3 tomb raider games.

Things and traditions I miss from the original TR games:

The T. Rex! (hence my user name) They always figured out a way to put the big green boss into the first 3 Tomb Raider games, and to put a T. Rex head in her trophy room in her house in TR3, classic!

Lara's House! It was a genius idea for a training level. Why not teach the gamer how to control Lara where she logically would do her training for her missions? And Jeeves! (Eidos named him Winston.) The shuffling, farting, jolly fellow who followed you around the entire house in TR2 and TR3! And seeing him in army fatigues and deflecting bullets with his serving tray in TR3 made me laugh for hours!

The humor! Tomb Raider always had a delightful bit of sarcastic humor to it. Whether it be Lara's dry wit or the enemy's stupid personalities! Larson from TR1, the stupid southern henchman for Natla who just cant seem to get anything right! My personal favorite. And Lara herself, the best humor at the end of TR2, you see her in the shower about to take off her robe... then she looks at the camera, says "Dont you think you've seen enough?" and blows the camera away with a shotgun! Best... ending.... ever!

So we've lost the T. Rex (I guess Eidos didnt think it was very 'realistic'), weve lost Lara's House, and I havent come across a bit of anything in AOD that made me laugh (except for the glitches).

I also noticed that Lara doesnt have any flares or light sticks anymore, those were useful. I miss those, expecially in the dark levels that are all over AOD. Her guns dont shoot big streams of flames anymore either. And vehicles, I hope she eventually drives vehicles in AOD (I havent gotten far yet). Ah the memories.

If anyone can think of any other things that they are missing from the original trilogy of games, please, post them! Nostalga is great! And maybe it will open Eidos' eyes to what the fans REALLY want, and not what Eidos THINKS we want.

Thanks.

[Mangar The Dark]

Originally posted by T_Rex
I
Then something happened around The Last Revelation, the storyline changed, it wasnt the Tomb Raider "Three Chapter" story set up. I still like Last Revelation alot, much more than Chronicles, but when I play it, it just feels different. And Chronicles, while being a fun game to play, completely lost all story and plot elements that were so strong in the first 3 games.



I have to disagree about TLR. For me, that was the first game in the series where the plot really seemed relevant and coherent. To be honest, I completed TR1 without fully knowing what was going on, and I didn't care. Don't get me wrong, I love the first TR game, but the plot just didn't seem relevant most of the time. TR2 and 3 also lost me in terms of plot. I don't think it's that the plots were so difficult, but they weren't told well (bad voice acting and fake accents didn't help-- I couldn't make out what the characters were saying half the time.) TLR was the first TR game that had me playing partly just to find out "what happens next." I loved the little twists in the story, and the way they introduced a major new character (Von Croy.) Also, the way she moved from location to location seemed believable (taking the train to Alexandria was brilliant), not just an excuse to throw in new maps.

Anyway, I DO know what you mean about the game feeling different, but I think it was an improvement in terms of plot.

[Atreyu]

the graphic quaulity is second to none

the graphics are second to plenty and even thirds, fourths, and fifths. it's a nice looking game but it is nowhere near the best.

enemy's stupid personalities

i don't think it was meant to be funny i think they just screwed up and made the enemys stupid.

but alas with all its shortcomings and glitches and sh*tty control i still enjoy playing tomb raider but the occasional bug pisses me off and lets me know, once more, that core screwed up by not polishing the game the way it should have been polished. and for not realizing that the control was pissy.

[T_Rex]

I agree that Last Revelation had the strongest plot line and twists and fun things like that. I was referring to Chronicles not having any strong story, which, in my opinion, was just a game that they made up to fill the time between TRLR and TRAOD.

And as for the stupid enemies in Tomb Raider 1? I think that it would have to be pretty intentional to make one of Natla's henchman a guy riding a skateboard with uzis. Either that or I am giving the people at Eidos and Core more credit than worth it.

I think that may be my personal taste, that I like the cheesyness of the first 3 Tomb Raider games. The simplicity. There was no big personal story for Lara in it. She just went out and had archeological adventures just for the fun of it. It just always happened to turn out that in the end she would be saving the world! It was the simpleness of the character Lara Croft. Now that all these dark things have been opened and large storylines panning her whole life, are still interesting and very ingaging, but very different. I like them in a DIFFERENT way.

Thats why I think of the first 3 Tomb Raider games, and then TRLR to present as 2 completely different entities. You cant put them within the same timeline as eachother or even in the same genre I dont think.

And that is what I guess I mean by, "something changed." Im not saying for the worst, but just something changed. I miss things from TR1,2,3. Then again I love some NEW things in the recetnt games.

As for the graphics of TRLR, they are groundbreaking for the Tomb Raider series. As a multimedia major in college, I understand that there are FAR FAR better technologies out there, expecially for the PC. They have graphics cards and programs that can make games with individually rendered blades of grass that react differently to wind. So I understand that.

It is very speculated that, since Core and Eidos started production on AOD 3 years ago, that the actual engine of the game is getting old, its from 2001 almost. In computer game terms, that is ancient. So yes, I agree that my original statment about the graphics might have been hasty.

[Mangar The Dark]

I do know what you mean, T-Rex, about the change in tone from TR1-3 to the later games. I just recently started playing TR1 again, and there is a certain charm in its simplicity. "I only play for sport," she tells Natla, and that just sums it up perfectly. But I think that works well for TR4 too. At the beginning, she's going after the amulet of Horus. Why? Presumably for sport. But this time, it gets her in trouble and she has to fix things. So really, she hasn't changed. Her initial intention was still the same, but something went wrong, propelling her into a new type of adventure.

(wow, I bet we put more thought into this than Core ever did!)

[soniqstylz]

Well, there's always the possibility that AoD is NOT the first chapter (or chapters) in this storyline, but that LR is. Notice, there's no "Tomb Raider IV", it's "Last Revelation", and now "Angel Of Darkness". So there's your first clue at leaving tradition.

I can't remember if there was a chapter in TR:LR where you start out without your guns, like in the first three, is there?

The change in the inventory.

This is a darker Lara, so of course some of her wit is gone (although she does get a bit smart with the hobo).

And I hear the T-Rex is coming back in the next one. *shrug*

Maybe Core and Eidos will listen in to what we miss.

[T_Rex]

Thanks for the backup Mangar. Im glad I found some people who sort of see what I see. Most other people dont, but I still play the original 3 Tomb Raider games quite often. I cant get enough of them, and every time I play I find something new or different and fun. When I get sick of GTA or whatever else I may have been playing, I turn back to what I know I can get enjoyment from. I unfortunately can't see myself in the future 'going back' and playing Angel of Darkness again-and-again like I have with the original TR games.

[Deviancy]

The comic book is going to start their adaption of the game in the next issue. Should be interesting. I remember the first Tomb Raider a little.. It was ok.. It was the second one that pulled me in.

I won't miss the t rex.. I felt they were trying to capitalize on the jurassic park trend that was going on at the time. I willl miss riding boats or atv's tho.. I'm assuming in aod there isn't any of that.

No sarcasm in aod? awww.. bummer. I liked that was well. It had that dry brit like sarcasm before.. Then again this is supposed to be a darker chapter in the characters life.. From the screenshots I keep expecting her to run into Splinter Cell.. Which reminds me.. clancy games are to bloody realistic..

[frostyplatinum]

Personally, I don.t much care for not having the double pistols, there her trademark... and I do have to say that i was misguided by almost all the pictures on the website, stratigy guide, and the manual, of her with the double pistols, and i admit, with this installment, i let my research slip awayfrom me and didnt get into as much research on the game as i have with previous ones.... but, i was pretty devastated when i was playing, and went to draw her double pistols, only to see that it was a single gun, with limited ammo.
Now, the whole controll thing, really didn.t get to me. It actually made me feel as though i was a beginner to the whole Tomb Raider thing. Which I liked because it was more challenging, and I liked the fact that she talks to YOU, rather than leaving you all alone to figure it out for yourself.
But, I do have to admit that I.m pretty upset that we don.t go back to her mansion any more, that was my favorite part about the whole game.
I would pull the game open, pop in in the playstation two, and spend hours and hours on end messing around in the mansion. It was the best, but when they came out with The Last Revolation, It really shocked me.... made me very sad face >_<,

[Radfad]

Bout all these bugs n all, u guys r talkin bout the PS2 version rite?????

[T_Rex]

Originally posted by Radfad
Bout all these bugs n all, u guys r talkin bout the PS2 version rite?????

Yes, we are mostly talking about the PS2 version of AOD with many problems with bugs, glitches and major slow-downs.

However that doesnt mean that the PC version will be any better. The only advantage that the PC version has will be that Eidos will be able to release versions of code patches for bugs that are present as time goes by. This is a major problem with the PC gaming industry, the games are mostly always released on-time but sometimes un-polished. They figure they can just count on everyone downloading patches from thier website for the game. Only the best PC game companies like Blizzard or Remedy keep this patches buisness to a minimum. I dont quite trust Eidos after the recent PS2 problems with AOD.

[Amy]

I'm glad you mentioned that, T-REX. If you play the PC version, you will most likely be able to download patches to fix glitches. I just had a disappointing experience with a brand new PS2 with PS versions of TR after playing TR on PC for the past . . . well, let's say since TR 1 Gold was brand new! Very disappointed witht the graphics in comparison with the PC. Anyhoo, I'm glad you brought that up about patches. I plan to go back to my old Gateway 2000 and play TR, hopefully to the end!

Thanks!

BTW, interesting viewpoint on the whole thing about TR's evolving and changing over games from one to the next. Very interesting reading!