>Question For TR Fans About The Controls <

[Blue Skies]

From reading various sources over the years the chaps at Core seem to imply that the gaming masses hate the TR controls of old.

What do you lot think?

I personally thought that Tomb Raider was the ONLY game that really nailed it.
I found in the first game the controls were completely invisible.

You could perform a back flip (with a twist), yank out the trusty pistols and give it to the bad guy….seamless…

It made you feel cool and in control, you could instantly put Lara anywhere you wanted to with ease. I remember performing a long jump, pulling out the pistols in mid air and then holstering them again just before grabbing the ledge with your finger tips….Why? Because you can and this level of control is COOL (+ Tomb Raider specific).

Most third person games today (Splinter Cell, MGS2, Lord Of The Rings, TTT, Zelda: TWW, etc, etc) have not really the same level of control.
Great games, but you often jump at the wrong point and die or you want to go left and the character goes right……ARGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

I always thought that TR could never have this type of control owing to the amount of climbing, jumping, exploring, etc. TR has always had more of a platformer approach than others and requires precision.

It makes it so much harder to get into a game when you are constantly wrestling with a lump of plastic in your hands.

Anyway, if I have any fears for the new TR game then it is the controls. This is what I want to read about in Reviews.
I am sure that the rest of it will be up to scratch, graphics, atmosphere, etc, etc.

Anyway, back to the original question, I would like to know what you (as a TR fan) thought of the original controls.

Do you think they were that bad and in desperate need of updating?

[Mangar The Dark]

I liked the old controls, but that may be because TR was the first 3rd person game I ever played, and so I got used to it and everything else felt slightly wrong.

One thing I kind of liked about TR controls is that I always knew how far I could jump. Since everything is broken up into squares, I know how many squares I can leap from a standing jump, how many I can leap with a running jump, how many I can handle with a grab, etc, etc. Plus, I always know how to time the jump. I know that if I hop backwards, and then run forward and jump, Lara will not jump until she reaches the end of her current square.

On the other hand, I hated that aspect of it at first. I wanted her to jump exactly when I pressed the jump button, NOT after she finished her current stride. You have no idea how many times I plunged to my death as a result of this when I first played TR back in 1996!

When I played other games, like Jedi Knight in third person mode, the controls felt almost slippery because the character was TOO responsive to my commands! He would jump immediately, he could run almost anywhere... it was a level of control I wasn't used to.

So, getting back to your question-- I'd be most happy if they left the controls "as is." But I would understand if they felt the need to revamp them to be more responsive.

[susan]

Originally posted by Blue Skies
Do you think they were that bad and in desperate need of updating?

Absolutely not. They work fine for me.

I find that using the analogue stick thing on the controller is less precise than the directional pad. No matter how well it's configured, I always feel I can't trust it in delicate situations - like jumping onto thin ledges, or crisis moments - quickly turning to run away, etc.

I'm also not keen on the fact that in AoD when you get near to something Lara can climb, she automatically does it. To me that's not realistic and takes away an element of the exploration. When I first played TR I'd get stuck for ages because I wouldn't realise that Lara could jump up onto something. I can see why that would irritate some people, but to me that was part of the fun - slowly finding my way through the game. Now the controls will do that for me.

Likewise with the new hand symbol which will pop up whenever Lara gets close to something she can do something with. What is the purpose of this? Half the fun of adventure games is trying stuff to see what works and what doesn't.

I'm hoping it's all going to work ok, but it seems to me that these controls are for a type of game which doesn't have the same emphasis on exploration as the previous TR games.

[Blue Skies]

Susan, I'm with you on that.
BTW, nice weather we are having in ye olde Londinium today :)

I wonder if the controls are going to be like those found in Splinter Cell???
The stealth 'wall sidle' and crouch walk look familiar.

I am very interested to see what control the right analogue stick will have in AOD.

Problems that I seem to run into all the time with analogue controls:

Example #1 - Splinter Cell:
There you are creeping along a wall and all of a sudden you find yourself looking like a dolt clinging to a fence/pole whilst the bad guys takes pot shots at you.
Note to Developers - If I fancy climbing a wall/fence then I would REALLY like to have a say in the matter.

Example #2 - Zelda (TWW):
How many times do you find yourself climbing down/up a ladder and after reaching the destination you try and disembark and you find yourself climbing it again....PAH!!!!!!

Example #3 - Zelda (TWW):
Each time you walk off a high step you perform a forward jump and DIE, DIE, DIE DARKMAN DIE!!!!!!

Example #4 - Splinter Cell:
Not really an analogue fault, but a major irritant.
All you want to do is jump from one location to another (simple yeah?....NO) and you end up falling to your doom.
You have to start looking at your feet all the time to get the jump timing EXACTLY right (very realistic....NOT).
AOD has this 'Last Chance Grab' thingy and I bet it is a common sight.

Example #5 - Lord Of The Rings (TTT) & The Rest:
The old camera change problem.
You are running down a path away from the enemy and all of a sudden the camera view switches and you find yourself running back to the enemy....ARGGHHHHH!!!!!

Anyway, this is just a few of the common problems that I have come across with analogue controls.
The original TR series was the only set of games that did not suffer from ANY of these.
I just hope Core have invented a new approach which retains the level of control found in the TR games of old.
If they have fallen into exactly the same holes then.....PAH!!!!!!!

[susan]

Originally posted by Blue Skies
Susan, I'm with you on that.
BTW, nice weather we are having in ye olde Londinium today :)



Sweet isn't it? Definitely "after-work-drinks-by-the-river" weather. Roll on home time :)

I don't think we'll get your Example 5 problems with TR (*crosses fingers*) because that normally happens when the controls are in that annoying - left=move left, right=move right, up=move to top of screen, down=move to bottom of screen - configuration. I think with AoD they've kept the up=move forward, down=move backward set up, so it shouldn't happen....unless they've seriously messed up the camera....

All your other examples...I think we've got problems! Especially example 4 - I mean, why else have they put that "last grab" option in the game?? :rolleyes:

[GoranAgar]

Originally posted by Susan
I think with AoD they've kept the up=move forward, down=move backward set up
They did not.

[Lr&Kt]

The control´s from the original tr were very comfortable, when u got used to them of course, i felt that i could cook with lara...

[I Think I'm Paranoid]

I agree that the original controls took a bit of getting used to, but after a quick run in the training sessions, they become second nature.
I find that using the analogue stick thing on the controller is less precise than the directional pad. No matter how well it's configured, I always feel I can't trust it in delicate situations - like jumping onto thin ledges, or crisis moments - quickly turning to run away, etc.
I feel the same way - the D-pad is more reliable, IMO. The analog is just too herky-jerky for me.

[Mangar The Dark]

Um, am I the only person here who has always just used the keyboard to control Lara? I see everyone else talking about D-pads and analogue sticks and whatnot. I tried using a gamepad once, and didn't like it at all. Also tried a joystick, but hated it. So I stuck with the Arrow keys, shift to walk, INS to look, ALT to control her legs (jump, swim), CTRL to control her hands (grab, shoot, etc.)

[susan]

Originally posted by GoranAgar
They did not.
OMG. (*sigh* Where do they get the people for their customer focus groups?)


I read this on the tombraiderchronicles.com site though:

While in stealth mode with a weapon drawn, move the left analog stick UP to move forward in the direction your character is looking, move LEFT or RIGHT to sidestep, and pull DOWN to step backward.

I don't know if they actually know anything but if they're right, then I guess I'll be doing the whole game in stealth mode. :rolleyes:

[snark^]

Originally posted by Susan
tombraiderchronicles.com info
While in stealth mode with a weapon drawn, move the left analog stick UP to move forward in the direction your character is looking, move LEFT or RIGHT to sidestep, and pull DOWN to step backwards

I don't know if they actually know anything but if they're right, then I guess I'll be doing the whole game in stealth mode. :rolleyes:

Same here and its not only because they're including some manual-aim with the stealth mode either -- it's just the FPS-style of forward/back + sidestep left/right, w/ mouse/analog/whatever for turning is by far the easiest way to control a character, even in 3rdPP games. Might be slower creeping around in TRAOD but infinity less frustrating than wrestling with both the camera and Lara simultaneously.

[JunoJIm]

I've bought & played a whole bunch of games, but always came back to TR, mainly because the controls did NOT use the mouse !!!

I use a mouse at work - don't want to for recreation !!!

I actually got a gamepad for the latest Indy game, cause it was nearly impossible to play it with the mouse...

By the way, I tried an XBox gamepad, with an analog stick - now that was sweet !!! BUT, I think since Indy was set up to use the WASD keyboard controls, an analog gamepad won't work - does anybody know ???

We need to know this answer, because I'm almost sure AOD is gonna be set up the same - it's cheaper to make all versions of a game the same - and the consoles with their gamepads seem to be winning...

BTW - If AOD is like Indy, with NO SAVEGAMES, I'm gonna smash the disk, and mail it to EIDOS !!!