TR is dead...

[unkwon]

Yes I said it, TR is officially dead, Core had butchered the classic Prince of Perisa style gaming, with this [Let's go copy Metal Gear and DMC] Style gameplay... I don't understand why Core design can't get a clue that TR is a Adventure game, and not some espionage action game, are you that desperate to gain audinces, Core the people YOU'RE trying to Appeal won't and never had gave a crap about TR at all, Go back to the bright Multicolors, and jumping, puzzles, and shooting, and cut with this "stealth", "Ultra-Realistic", "Demonic"; crap and go play TR1 again... TR was famous for breaking away from all the Dark and moody atmosphere from games like Doom, and the annoying cuteness from Mario[though I really love mario though]. Lara was a brite and interesting character... TR was about sheer adventure, not stealth, techincal crap, and fancy effects... Why in the hell have you butchered the foundry just because some ass says that the first TR sucks... All you need to do with TR was just make interesting level designs, alittle Tighter controls, new weapons, and no bugs, not with all this crouching, Stealth, and gimmicky crap... Personally I have no interest TR:AOD, I hate the way Core changes it just to get people interested in it... I shall await Galleon...

Core go back and play TR1 and 2 and see what maded them great... Quit trying to copy everybody else, just because some Anti TR ass says soo...

All you need to do is make good level designs, THATS IT!!!

[chloe]

hey hope you don't get spam which i think you will if don't
like the new tomb raider 6 angel darness then don't get it okay
anyway i am looking forward to new tomb raider game i will always like tomb raider even if lara not raiding tombs anymore
i will still get tomb raider 7 and 8 if the make them

[unkwon]

I Still love the TR series, but the whole concept and classic gameplay are dead... They threw out the TR style gameplay, and try to compete with MGS2 and Sython Fillter and add goofy gimicks that are not TR, I don't mind the darker and edgier, but it's just a marketing gimmick... TR is about exploring, gunfighting, and blowing up endangered speices... TR is not about sneaking around gaurds and fighting stereotypical mutants and terriost. The dangerous animals, where a breake from all the Demons, Terrost, Mutants, Aliens, that we always see sense space invaders...

I'll still buy it sense I'm a TR fanboy...


But I don't like the way Core is trying to put unneeded gimmicks... Core does'nt need to go all that far to make a good TR. They just need EXELENT LEVEL DESIGN, MORE WEAPONS, ENEMIE TYPES, VECHICLES, BETTER CONTROLS, No GLITCHES in it...

[THE True Lara]

It's no secret, I don't like the direction AOD has gone. but as there's nothing what so ever I can do about it -short of building a time machine and going back in time to sabotage AOD in it's conception stages- so I've tried stopped whinging about it.

I don't care if it was getting old, I liked old Lara with the mint green leotard and little brown shorts raiding tombs (most of the time) with a coy smile and a trigger happy finger. I liked the fact that it had the archaeological undertones, and wasn't all about 'edgeyness' and 'stealth' and yada yada yada.

As you say it'd be nice if they went "back to the bright Multicolors, and jumping, puzzles, and shooting" and all the things that set it apart from other games and what made me first want to play instead of mimicking everything else on the market these days. It's no fun quinting at a dark screen trying to work out which Louvre guard's neck you have to break next.

But as I said nothing to be done about it now. We're stuck with this damned format for the next 3 games at least. And if they can make it sell, I doubt they'll go back to the old values.

I feel sorry for Toby.

[Blue Skies]

Let's wait until the game is out first. It might be great!!!!!

[Ethereal]

Originally posted by Blue Skies
Let's wait until the game is out first. It might be great!!!!!

Exactly.

[Mr.Deflok]

Oh fantastic, another "It's not liek part 1" thread... It's called evolution, happens in all franchise games. Just wait and see if you like the game after playing it, don't go jumping to conclusions.

[RebeL_fARmeR]

TR isn't dead... it's just changed direction.

Ok, I couldn't agree more, Tomb Raider needs TOMBS for you to RAID to be CLASSIC Tomb Raider. All this demon whooping, area-51 running, Submarine wrecking isn't classic Tomb Raider AT ALL... but it's *still* good fun so TR lives on.

[Cyber_Punk_303]

1) There was demonic creatures in TR1. Lol.
2) I found the first game rather dark, actually. Maybe cuz i was young, but i mean, there was backstabbing, monsters, eerie tombs - it wasen't that bright and happy (TR2 was however).

I think this is JUST the direction to take TR in. It won't be all action and espionage. Their just making the game creepier so that the experience will be more intense. It'll be like TR1 again, where your almost afraid to look around the corner.

I hope the architecture will be good.

[trfreak5243]

well, i figure this is a big step for tomb raider in developing lara's character, and they needed a big story line to make this game revolutionary rather than just another tomb raider. But hopefully in the next few installments they will return to the free, fun spirit of the original tomb raider just with better graphics. LARA'S HOUSE WILL RETURN (or so says a contact at core), so im guessing stuff will return to old style tomb raider before the series ends.

[Cyber_Punk_303]

YEAH!!! I'm gonna miss the mansion in AOD. It's so idiosyncratic and original - it's one of those "Tomb Raider Things". That mansion defines Lara (well, not quite... but ya know!)!!!

[unkwon]

Originally posted by Cyber_Punk_303
1) There was demonic creatures in TR1. Lol.
2) I found the first game rather dark, actually. Maybe cuz i was young, but i mean, there was backstabbing, monsters, eerie tombs - it wasen't that bright and happy (TR2 was however).

I think this is JUST the direction to take TR in. It won't be all action and espionage. Their just making the game creepier so that the experience will be more intense. It'll be like TR1 again, where your almost afraid to look around the corner.

I hope the architecture will be good.

TR 1 was Dark! It shows off in a more Indy style, and doe'snt hype about thoses values...

AOD is gimmicky Dark! The whole darkness about it is being totaly marketed... I still have high hopes for AOD, I'm just being cautious...

[Johnny]

Hey, unkwon. Be open to change. This new direction Core is taking with Tomb Raider is allowing gamers to connect more with Lara's character. ;)

[LaraAngelOfDarkness]

Why is it that Lara has to always be in tombs to some people. I think the plot to TR:AOD is very good! So she dosen't raid tombs(actually she will go through the catacombs of paris, which ARE tombs). Indiana Jones wasn't always in a tomb either! TR established the 3d third person adventure gameplay, this game expands on it and turns to a darkside for a while. Core said TR:AOD is part of a book they wrote and the game is only a few chapters of it. Maybe Later in the story Lara will end up back in a more traditional form, but right now this is just the opening to a great adventure that is unfolding in front of us!!!!

[DaveJ]

Some people won't be happy if it changes too much and are happy for the same game to be re-released every year.
They will become an ever dwindling few. ("Can't fool all the people all of the time, but....")

And some people won't be happy if the game hasn't changed enough, and is merely a re-tread of the old TR games with a new paint job.

If some old stick in the mud fans get lost along the way, and some new gamers take to Lara for the first time with this one, the Universe will still be in balance.

Lara dead? She's been in a coma for the last few games....maybe this will be the shock treatment that revives her.


I'm staying open minded until I've actually played the game before casting aspersions and predicting doom all round.

[sbp]

Good post unkwon.

I played the various Tomb Raider games. TR1 and TR2 had a sense of amazement and freshness about them. While the last 3 Tomb Raiders had their moments-I'm still wanting that thrill and excitement the first 2 done so well. From what is seen AoD won't deliver that.

Time moves forward with some things left behind.

[Katie_Fleming]

Change is a good thing! I'm having no doubts...and until AOD comes out, I'm replaying TR1!!! woo hoo!

*shields eyes* the graphics! ah! They're hurting my eyes! hehehhehe

[XanderD2]

Originally posted by Katie_Tomb_Raider
I'm replaying TR1!!! woo hoo!

*shields eyes* the graphics! ah! They're hurting my eyes! hehehhehe

Why, at 1024x768 it is quite palatable (provided that you have GLIdos 1.7 installed) :)

[df2colonel]

Originally posted by LaraAngelOfDarkness
Why is it that Lara has to always be in tombs to some people.

I think it could be argued that the game should not be named "Tomb Raider: AOD" if there is no tomb raiding going on. Why not call it "Adventures of Lara Croft: AOD"?

This point may not make sense from a marketing standpoint, but from the average Joe Gamer viewpoint, it make perfect sense.

Just my $.02
Colonel

[Katie_Fleming]

Because it's always been called Tomb Raider: _______

Why suddenly change it? It's like saying Lara paid to have her name changed...

[Mgardiner]

Yeah well one could argue that Tomb Raider II, TR 3, TRC had nothing to do with tombs in certain levels as well therefore it's not TOMB raider. Tomb Raider is just the name which we recognize Lara Croft in. It's more about the character than the title call it whatever the hell you want, as long as it has Lara in it and it keeps the usual play style with some new goodies Iam happy.

[Katie_Fleming]

That's very true...I guess as long as she has a history of raiding tombs, you can still call it Tomb Raider ;)

But that's how I will always refer to it as, even if they do change the title someday!

[Holly]

Actually, from a marketing standpoint, keeping Tomb Raider in the title is a good thing for Core/Eidos (and I suspect it's more Eidos since Core has repeatedly said they are trying seperate Lara from the Tomb Raider mantle). Remember a couple years back when Chronicles came out and Core was hinting about a new Tomb Raider game? They said on several occasions that the next Lara Croft adventure might not even have Tomb Raider in the title. Naming the new game the way they did keeps the market open to a familiar product, Tomb Raider, while trying to establish a new product, Lara Croft. This facilitates the new gamers who have no clue who Lara is but have heard about this cool Tomb Raider game. They'll see a big TOMB RAIDER logo on the box and be reminded of a game they played a little at a friend's house 4 years ago or wait a minute, wasn't there a movie a couple years back called Tomb Raider?

See, for those of us here in this forum, having Tomb Raider (or Lara Croft) in the title is redundant. We all know that Tomb Raider is synonymous with Lara Croft and vice versa but believe it or not, boys and girls, there are some out there that don't know that. They do know that their brother's girlfriend's sister has a cousin who knows this guy that was talking to some chick at a party her boyfriend was having and his little brother plays this game where a girl runs around in tombs, shooting wolves and raiding treasures but the girl who's going with the little brother's older brother can't remember the name of it but thinks the game is from some movie. Flash forward to June 25th. Joe Average is crusing the mall with his peeps and walks past EB. He sees a poster and in huge silver letters, bigger than any other words on the poster TOMB RAIDER. He is struck by a revelation, almost an epiphany: "Dude! That's the game whatsherface was talking about! Oh, yeah, Lara Croft, I heard of her!" And, if the game is good, another fan is added to our ranks and Core/Eidos have a new repeat customer.

That's the reason the words Tomb Raider still exist and are so prominent in the title; to draw in the gamers that are thinking about or have heard about but have no experience with Tomb Raider. Why else would the title be so cumbersome? Lara Croft Tomb Raider The Angel of Darkness....that's a mouthful. Tomb Raider is just a title, a description if you will, of Lara Croft. It's who she is and what she does; kind of like Stephen King Fiction Writer. Would Lara's boyfriend (or, if you prefer, girlfriend) call her Tomb Raider during moments of intimacy? No and neither would we; Lara Croft's her name, Tomb Raider's her old job and that's what Core is trying to establish.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next Tomb Raider game doesn't even have that in the title. If it does, I would bet that words Lara Croft will have the biggest letters.

[XanderD2]

Originally posted by Katie_Tomb_Raider
Because it's always been called Tomb Raider: _______

Why suddenly change it?

The same reasoning can be reversed:

It's always been called Tomb Raider. Why not change it?

You, yourself said that change is a good thing. ;)

[Katie_Fleming]

Yes, I see what you mean. I have no problem if they change it, but history is history -- one will always call something by the old name for awhile at least. Know what I mean?

It wouldn't bother me if they did change it, but I will always think of it as TR, because that's how it started out as.

:)

[PLAYA INC'S BIG THUG]

Originally posted by unkwon
Yes I said it, TR is officially dead, Core had butchered the classic Prince of Perisa style gaming, with this [Let's go copy Metal Gear and DMC] Style gameplay... I don't understand why Core design can't get a clue that TR is a Adventure game, and not some espionage action game, are you that desperate to gain audinces, Core the people YOU'RE trying to Appeal won't and never had gave a crap about TR at all, Go back to the bright Multicolors, and jumping, puzzles, and shooting, and cut with this "stealth", "Ultra-Realistic", "Demonic"; crap and go play TR1 again... TR was famous for breaking away from all the Dark and moody atmosphere from games like Doom, and the annoying cuteness from Mario[though I really love mario though]. Lara was a brite and interesting character... TR was about sheer adventure, not stealth, techincal crap, and fancy effects... Why in the hell have you butchered the foundry just because some ass says that the first TR sucks... All you need to do with TR was just make interesting level designs, alittle Tighter controls, new weapons, and no bugs, not with all this crouching, Stealth, and gimmicky crap... Personally I have no interest TR:AOD, I hate the way Core changes it just to get people interested in it... I shall await Galleon...

Core go back and play TR1 and 2 and see what maded them great... Quit trying to copy everybody else, just because some Anti TR ass says soo...

All you need to do is make good level designs, THATS IT!!!

We can see that your not a die hard TR fan. It's not dead what makes you think all this stuff!????????

[Mangar The Dark]

Originally posted by Katie_Tomb_Raider
Yes, I see what you mean. I have no problem if they change it, but history is history -- one will always call something by the old name for awhile at least. Know what I mean?

It wouldn't bother me if they did change it, but I will always think of it as TR, because that's how it started out as.

:)

We had another, rather in-depth thread on this topic a while back, and I think Xander and I were the only two who were really in favor of dropping the "Tomb Raider" moniker. Anyway, I won't restate my arguments because you can look them up if you actually care (and I know nobody does.)

It's funny, though, how franchise names stick, even when they don't apply. I don't know how many of you remember The Bard's Tale series, but that's one of my favorite examples of a bad (and unintentional) franchise name. For those who don't remember, "The Bard's Tale" was an RPG back in the 80s. The cover of the box said: "Tales of The Unknown, Vol.1: The Bard's Tale." But, of course, everyone called it the Bard's Tale for short. When Electronic Arts released the sequel, it was supposed to be titled "Tales of The Unknown, Vol. 2: The Archmage's Tale." But the marketing people realized that would be a mistake, so it was simply called "The Bard's Tale 2." And the same thing happened with the third game (went from "Tales Of The Unknown Vol. 3: The Thief's Tale" to "Bard's Tale 3")

Anyway, the point is, the Bard had nothing much to do with the sequels, but the name stuck for marketing reasons, and I guess that's what's happening here. Though, if you read my arguments in the other thread, you'll see I don't agree with that decision.

[DaveJ]

I was quietly in favour of dropping the Tomb Raider name too.

I think Core were as well, after the first game.
It became a millstone of a title that restricted them in the kinds of adventures they could put Lara on, as everyone expected her to raid dusty ol' tombs all the time, and cried when she didn't.
As has been proven, one can only do that so many times before the general populace get bored with the same old same old.

Perhaps more emphasis should have been placed on the line "Lets go adventuring!".

[XanderD2]

Originally posted by DaveJ
I was quietly in favour of dropping the Tomb Raider name too.

I think Core were as well, after the first game.
It became a millstone of a title that restricted them in the kinds of adventures they could put Lara on, as everyone expected her to raid dusty ol' tombs all the time, and cried when she didn't.
As has been proven, one can only do that so many times before the general populace get bored with the same old same old.

Perhaps more emphasis should have been placed on the line "Lets go adventuring!".

I couldn't agree more. Because of the title "Tomb Raider" many people wanted to see a return to tomb raiding (typically those who indicate TR1 and TR4 as their favorite TR games). While many enhancements in TR4 were welcome, and the puzzles were excellent, I did not like TR4 as a whole. From the promotional campaigns it was evident that Eidos/Core put Lara in the limelight so I expected that they will drop the name "Tomb Raider" when the next generation game comes out.

[Katie_Fleming]

True, true. There are only so many tombs in the world to raid...and once they're all raided....no more!

They'll probably end up changing it to "Lara Croft: ______" which would now make more sense.