Soul Reaver 1 Menu Screen

[hippiechk]

Hey, a friend on the gfaqs board has a great theory (IMO) about the figures on the menu screen. I'm hoping that Chris might be able to answer for sure. Tell us if this is correct or not and even fill in the blanks. Please? Pretty please?

Posted here with permission from FFKonoko…

The 8th Figure on the menu for Soul Reaver
The figure at the top right is Raziel. In his vampiric form, his eyes are blue and he loses his lower jaw.
The figure to the left, centre of the top row, is Kain. He is the focal point of the picture and is the most imposing figure there.
The figure at top left is Dumah. He was one of the eldest of the brothers and his sharing the top area with Kain and Raziel makes sense.
The bearded figure just below and to the right of Kain is Turel. His vampiric form has the longest ears and his position at Kains feet mirrors that in the game (according to deleted material).
Rahab and Zephon are more interchangeable.
I think that the one in human clothes to be Zephon (due to his use of the cathedral as his home) and Rahab to be the one just below Dumah.
Now, there is two figures left, both bald. Melchiah was bald so he must be one of them.
Now, Melchiah is the youngest so he is more likely to be the one near the bottom, covering his face with his hands.
The one below Kain, the figure looking off to one side is, as yet, unidentified. It cannot be one of the Elite 6 which Kain raised nor Kain himself, as they have all been accounted for.
It is indeed a vampire so this limits who it could be.
It could be Janos or Vorador, but this is highly unlikely as they have very distinctive looks.
It could be that Kain raised one other vampire and hide that from everyone (somehow). This raises some interesting issues for the future...
Or it could be a simple mistake on behalf of the developers, a left over portion of story that was abandoned...
Not sure, but I like the idea that Kain had another son. ^_^ It's pretty unlikely, but it would be rather funny if 'Vastian' was really in the LoK storyline...
Malek? He had a grave with the rest in the Tomb of the Sarafan, there were seven tombs there.
Well...it sounds possible, but first of all, they all have a vampiric stage in the picture, Malek is no vampire. His body was in his bastion as well. Why would Kain raise Malek, a Guardian? Would it be possible after Mortanius' punishment?
Hey, maybe it's Morlock? He could have been the first vampire raised by the brothers...it would explain why you get a power from a 'normal' vampire...

[Matthew]

Yes, I saw this the moment I bought SR and checked the menu.

The additional figure is truly a mystery. I agree that it could be just a blooper, but just MAYBE - it could have some influence on the future of the series? :)

- Matthew

[FFKonoko]

Yay, my theory!

[hippiechk]

Hey dude! You made it! Welcome :D

[warpsavant]

Thats very interesting. Somewhere around here someone actually told us what them things were, but I can't remember or find where the info is at. I bet BLinc knows.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by warpsavant
Thats very interesting. Somewhere around here someone actually told us what them things were, but I can't remember or find where the info is at. I bet BLinc knows.

Bad warp. No biscuit! How dare you forget what the eighth one was dubbed. :eek:

We're going to have a deity war over this... (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2985&perpage=20&highlight=SR1%20menu&pagenumber=2)

:D :p ;)

[Nessdark]

I know I'm arriving kinda really, really, REALLY late to this. But couldn't those guys be the fallen 8 Guardians from Blood Omen 1?

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

Aren't they all male though? There were two female Guardians that Kain kills in Blood Omen. Of course, I probably should actually look at the menu again to make sure...
But this is a really good point. Is there more to it? I always just thought it was just a cool thing there, not really having any bearing on the story since none of them look like anyone from the game.

[The Hylden]

They all appear to be male, yes. One appears more feminine, initially -- the one with his hand on the head of the one at the bottom. However, post his transformation phase, his face is clearly male. They could simply be an allegory for the Pillar Guardians, or, for that matter, Kain and his sons -- just kind of an effigy that represents the empire, or the Guardians. I'm leaning toward Kain and his sons, simply because the faces morph into vampires (though, and this game predates the inclusion of the ancients, mind, they could be representatives of the original vampire Guardians, or perhaps a set of human Guardians-turned-vampires before Moebius and Mortanius' lot rebelled). However, they are also all wearing monks' shrouds, except the one near the bottom with the goatee. He looks like he's wearing some sort of renaissance-like period wear. The one that looks the most like Raziel, whom also loses his jaw, funny enough, when he morphs into vampire form and looks at the camera (and his eyes glow blue like Raiel's, while the other seven have eyes that glow red) is praying. Inherently, I can't see Raziel doing that, but it might fit with just showing his devotion to Kain, or to their cause. before he was abyssed.

So, yeah, I think it's all just a loose representation of various things and themes that you'll find in the game. Kain and his sons, a broken pillar/wall behind them (Balance), dutiful son Raziel gets betrayed and deformed, the other sons live on under Kain in relative misery (if you look at them, they're shunning the light, looking away, etc), the paradox of beings worshiped as Gods that are, in fact, monstrous vampires -- or, perhaps, the dichotomy of monstrosity and beauty, righteousness and unholy evil -- that no-one in the world of Nosgoth is either, or, but are, in fact, a shade of gray in between...

Anyway, we'll likely never know, given how long it's been. lol, and the last page of the link Umah provided up there has her post this:

As I posted over at NR. I have inquired with Chris about this issue and he has not gotten back to me. He does have a busy schedule and we can be patient.

That was posted on 08-01-2003, 09:10 PM, :lol: Man, that's truly one hell of a wait.

[Bazielim]

It's been a while...I'm sure it was confirmed somewhere that those were representations of Kain and his vampire sons, I'll have to check around a bit and see what I can find.
They do also make an appearance on the first page of the (English) SR1 comic, behind Raz. Though this makes it no clearer what they are.

EDIT: Upon further checking, I have discovered that LoK Fanatic's GameFAQs Plot Guide (http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197763-legacy-of-kain-soul-reaver/faqs/25247) (SR1 Observations #46) says:-
The seven hooded vampires on the main menu are, according to Crystal Dynamics' Test Manager Chris Bruno, meant to represent Kain and his six lieutenants. Note they are not actually Kain and his six lieutenants, only a representation.
though there must be a source with something more concrete than that;)...still looking...

[Nessdark]

it's nice to see how active can this threads still be. thanks for the feedback. see ya around

[Vampirito87]

Sorry for reviving this post too late. I found a picture of an early render of the main menu screen from the early beta of the game. It seems it confirms the theory that the mural depicts Kain and his liutenants.
Its obvious mainly because of the character from the upper right corner of the picture. Any guess who may be???:thumb::)

http://www.imagengratis.org/images/1wo8iw.jpg

[majinkura]

YES!! i knew it from the beginning!!
although i like how Raziel looks here than with his short hair in the final drawings.

[Linikratyo]

I do think the monk on the left looks very feminine, so I would be guessing it to be Ariel for that matter :scratch:

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

The guy in the topmost middle would likely be Kain, and the one in the upper right has got to be Raziel, the one below him might be Dumah, but there's still the problem that there is an extra person in that picture. Kain and his six sons equals 7, but there are eight in that picture. The one with eyes that aren't red stands out. Who is it? Ariel? The Priestess?

[Vampirito87]

The guy in the topmost middle would likely be Kain, and the one in the upper right has got to be Raziel, the one below him might be Dumah, but there's still the problem that there is an extra person in that picture. Kain and his six sons equals 7, but there are eight in that picture. The one with eyes that aren't red stands out. Who is it? Ariel? The Priestess?

I would like to think that it represent the Priestess of the human vampire worshipers. If you get a closer look, she doesn´t have that red glowing in her eyes like the rest of the vamps. And I assume the mural depicts the ruling class of Kain Fallen Empire and their corrupted nature. And as such, the Priestess may be the "de facto" leader of the humans of the Soul reaver era.

[Mr.Milky]

Sorry for reviving this post too late. I found a picture of an early render of the main menu screen from the early beta of the game. It seems it confirms the theory that the mural depicts Kain and his liutenants.
Its obvious mainly because of the character from the upper right corner of the picture. Any guess who may be???:thumb::)

http://www.imagengratis.org/images/1wo8iw.jpg

http://nosgoth.net/Soul_Reaver/conceptart/coolcollage.JPG

The lady with the hood, looks like a priestess. Early art, early concept of Ariel, the pre-guardian of the ballance. Also found in the comic book.
However, the white eyes are somewhat misguiding. Hyldens usually have yellow eyes-green eyes seen in some game parts.
Epic find, non the less. And one of the reasons why this game series rule is because they hold so much mystery trough the history symbols which is left to all of us, fans, to find and connect. Just like the earring (Vorador's ring) on the Kains ear during the SR2 intro (and so on). :whistle:

While I find the hands and legs quite feminine, the muscular structure of the abdomen is quite masculine, so to speak. Even with white eyes and a huge round face i still believe that it is a female, however it can also be a mistake in the concept art...

[Bazielim]

@ Milky - I may be reading this wrong, but you do understand that Ariel and the Priestess are completely separate and unrelated characters? Though you are correct that the only definite depiction we have of the Priestess is in the Soul Reaver Comic where she is depicted in similar hooded fashion. Don't go too far with the eyes though, the 'Hylden eyes' effect thing didn't come in until much later - these are just plain eyes, probably because she's the only one who isn't a vampire.

For this I'd agree with Vampirito's sentiments - The title screen is a symbol of the 'struggles you will face through the game'; so that would seem to say bosses/territory leaders to me - which would suggest Kain, the Council and the Priestess.

[Mr.Milky]

I can't see the error. I wrote "looks like" and not "is". Also, much of what I wrote is a simple speculation, thou I don't quite understand the Hylden reference.
Similar eyes have been seen in the Time guardian. His eyes are kind of white-purple (similar to neji's Byakugan, from Naruto, for example).
Same eyes have been seen at Mortanius, too.

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/lok/_images/guardians/Guard_Death_Mortanius.jpg

I'm not saying that the person at the pre-released version of the game is actually any of those characters, just pinpointing the similarities with the eyes :D

In the original the image is quite the female character. But all the deformations on the face, alongside with the white eyes, are misleading.

However, the cape sure does look like a Balance guardian one... but than again many characters wore hoods like that :D

Anyway, since it was a pre-beta, and the comic book was around the same time, I'm pretty sure it's logical to assume it's the priestess :]

[essex1990]

I can't see the error. I wrote "looks like" and not "is". Also, much of what I wrote is a simple speculation, thou I don't quite understand the Hylden reference.
Similar eyes have been seen in the Time guardian. His eyes are kind of white-purple (similar to neji's Byakugan, from Naruto, for example).
Same eyes have been seen at Mortanius, too.

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/lok/_images/guardians/Guard_Death_Mortanius.jpg

I'm not saying that the person at the pre-released version of the game is actually any of those characters, just pinpointing the similarities with the eyes :D

In the original the image is quite the female character. But all the deformations on the face, alongside with the white eyes, are misleading.

However, the cape sure does look like a Balance guardian one... but than again many characters wore hoods like that :D

Anyway, since it was a pre-beta, and the comic book was around the same time, I'm pretty sure it's logical to assume it's the priestess :]

doesn't ariel say that she is bound to the pillars where Kain's throne/broken balance pillar is, it would make sense that she is in the picture because she can't actually leave.

[The Hylden]

Ariel is bound to the Pillar of Balance for all eternity. As the Balance Guardian, her soul was her binding item (unlike other Guardians that have tokens, like Moebius' hour glass). When she was killed, her soul was on its way back to the Pillar of Balance to be released, but the Circle was infected with corruption by Nupraptor and the Pillars, also corrupted, stopped functioning completely, so she wasn't released. Even after the Pillars go boom after Kain's refusal to sacrifice himself, she's still, apparently, eternally bound to them.



Clearing other things up: Hylden "eyes" (more their soul's energy) glow green, not yellow. Moebius' eyes are grey and are still actual eyes -- looking more like severe cataracts than an his natural eye color and adding credence to Kain's statements about what he saw by peering into all of time, that "as a man, I could never have contained [it]." Moebius can still see, by his powers as Time Guardian, but it looks like his eyes have suffered the physical consequences. Back when Moebius was in BO1, by Silicon Knights, it seems they were actually going for that old blind sooth sayer look, which is why his eyes are entirely whited out there.

Mortanius' eyes are whited out, perhaps due to his peering into the Spectral Realm so much, or that he's master of the dead. His only glow green when the Hylden Lord within him emerges.

Ariel's one eye that she has left is a hazel blue color and an actual eye. I'm pretty sure the Priestess was to have actual human eyes also. Neither here, nor there, imo, as that "female" in the menu screen has always looked male to me and it still does in this beta version.

[Corlagon]

History abhors repetition (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=2985) :nut:

[The Hylden]

Actually, history wouldn't know what to do with itself without repetition. And around the forums, it's like clockwork seeing repeating threads and ideas. I sometimes think I should copy a catalogue of my responses to paste in threads to save time :D

btw, where were you with that reply about four months ago? :p One thing that thread never cleared up totally is who the eighth man/woman is, but I say so what? The official answer by Daniel Cabuco is that they were supposed to generally represent Kain, Raziel, and the Lieutenants. That's about all that's ever gonna be gleaned about it, to be sure. I still say that "female" is a male :D

[Mr.Milky]

Well, yeah, the physical construction of that body surely looks quite masculine.

While other females throughout the series do have a very slim figure.

however, could it be, by any chance, a resemblance to the Vorador's Mystery woman?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100606220857/legacyofkain/images/2/2e/VoradorWoman.jpg

You get her once during the FMV in the BO1 and once again in the Cathedral during the Def.

[Corlagon]

I want to say this is just a stupid thought on my part and that I already realise its serious flaws, because I don't want anybody to spend too much time composing lots of detailed counter-arguments :), but I suppose there's always the possibility that the upper-left guy is not Dumah but instead a very, VERY, loose representation of Malek; unlike Ariel and the Priestess, he shared in the same corruption as Kain and his vampires did (assuming spirits can be corrupted...), could've just as easily been one of the lieutenants if not for destiny and happenstance, and if you think about Kain's monologue that the Sarafan and the vampires are symbolically similar, then it could sort of work. His detached position up there might suggest he is on par with Kain, and not beneath him like the real lieutenants.

I think someone from this forum has been in contact with Dan in recent times and he kindly answered plenty of questions, so maybe we would still be able to find out who it is.

[The Hylden]

Mr. Milky, given she's Vorador's mystery woman and he's, by the time of SR1, centuries past, I'd say highly unlikely.



Er, to Corlagon: *insert catalogued reply here* :D

[TheSquid]

The 8th figure represents you, the player of the game. That's why it's so androgynous.

[Mr.Milky]

The 8th figure represents you, the player of the game. That's why it's so androgynous.

I don't think that's the case. Mainly because this is a game with a lot of dedication and, thank god, no empty androgynous avatars. Besides, the story-line follows Raziel and as Eaziel realizes things - so do we throughout the monologues and dialogues.

@The Hylden : I hear you, but chronological factors are of no issue here. It's a stone figure. Just a speculation about the pre-released mystery character from the menu screed and given the fact that Voradors mystery woman is quite a resemblance given the facial contour, I used it.
Also, why would he / she be holding the head of a vampire (presumably Zephon)?
I'd like to see your speculation, for a change, instead of constructive criticism.
Also, I don't want that anyone get the idea of a debate here, my goal is to make this thread a bit more challenging for some imaginative mind :D

[TheSquid]

You were just offered a chance to have a statue of yourself standing alongside vampire lieutenants and you rejected it. Just think about that the next time nobody builds a statue of you.

Also,
It's the priestess.

[Allegory]

The 8th Figure on the menu for Soul Reaver
The figure at the top right is Raziel. In his vampiric form, his eyes are blue and he loses his lower jaw.
The figure to the left, centre of the top row, is Kain. He is the focal point of the picture and is the most imposing figure there.
The figure at top left is Dumah. He was one of the eldest of the brothers and his sharing the top area with Kain and Raziel makes sense.
The bearded figure just below and to the right of Kain is Turel. His vampiric form has the longest ears and his position at Kains feet mirrors that in the game (according to deleted material).
Rahab and Zephon are more interchangeable.
I think that the one in human clothes to be Zephon (due to his use of the cathedral as his home) and Rahab to be the one just below Dumah.
Now, there is two figures left, both bald. Melchiah was bald so he must be one of them.
Now, Melchiah is the youngest so he is more likely to be the one near the bottom, covering his face with his hands.
The one below Kain, the figure looking off to one side is, as yet, unidentified. It cannot be one of the Elite 6 which Kain raised nor Kain himself, as they have all been accounted for.
It is indeed a vampire so this limits who it could be.
It could be Janos or Vorador, but this is highly unlikely as they have very distinctive looks.
It could be that Kain raised one other vampire and hide that from everyone (somehow). This raises some interesting issues for the future...
Or it could be a simple mistake on behalf of the developers, a left over portion of story that was abandoned...
Not sure, but I like the idea that Kain had another son. ^_^ It's pretty unlikely, but it would be rather funny if 'Vastian' was really in the LoK storyline...
Malek? He had a grave with the rest in the Tomb of the Sarafan, there were seven tombs there.
Well...it sounds possible, but first of all, they all have a vampiric stage in the picture, Malek is no vampire. His body was in his bastion as well. Why would Kain raise Malek, a Guardian? Would it be possible after Mortanius' punishment?
Hey, maybe it's Morlock? He could have been the first vampire raised by the brothers...it would explain why you get a power from a 'normal' vampire...

Marcus was bald. He had ability to possess the minds of mortals. Kain tried to kill him. Failed. Succeeds later in the Cathedral.

Problem Solve Coagula.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

The 8th figure represents you, the player of the game. That's why it's so androgynous.

I really doubt that. This isn't Metal Gear Solid 2. The Legacy of Kain series doesn't play with post-modernism and metafiction. Symbology, sure, but not in that kind. It's most likely that all of these guys are supposed to represent something about the story and mythos itself, and very likely specific characters.

[Custer]

Sorry for the bump, but...
Anyone notice the wings on the upper right figure? Definitely Raziel.

http://www.imagengratis.org/images/1wo8iw.jpg

[majinkura]

Custer - the face alone is a dead giveaway that its raz.
:)

[Custer]

Sure, but in the actual game the figure's face & hair are different. While the wings are still there.

[Zulgbrtzchllha]

I can't believe I didn't notice those wings....

[Paradoks]

They still exist in the final version. That and his blue eyes always made me think of him as Raziel, but I somehow couldn't treat the remaining characters as other vampires because the extra figure was ruining the whole concept.

And looking at this early images I have to agree that it probably is the Priestess.

[Mr.Milky]

Sorry for the bump, but...
Anyone notice the wings on the upper right figure? Definitely Raziel.


Of course... also the flag on his hands, "dark tears" representing "agony", not being as aggressive as the rest of his "brothers" who are a clear symbol of either greed, hunger or just plain good ol' vampire syndrome :D

But, I don't see sexy ladies in red... so... :o:p

[Custer]

also the flag on his hands
Damn! I just noticed that.

[Teldar]

Here's a little Photoshop edit I made, one half showing all faces sad, and the other half shows them happy :)

[TheSquid]

Looking at the face on the left side and in the middle of the screen (in terms of up and down)

This one is more effeminate than the others while in human form, and when red-eyed "she" still doesn't display fangs. Priestess



Then there's the bottom left statue who's wearing some ridiculous school uniform from the 1700s. That one might be a cross-dresser, or one of those adults with a diaper fetish....... Melchiah?

[Raina Audron]

What´s more interesting that the figure on the middle left has white eyes in SR Beta, so maybe it is the Priestess..

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iXP8ydPMnZg/TIIoC48gb-I/AAAAAAAABOU/L7eOqIbioks/s800/Title%2520screen.JPG