Rip-off character

[LaraAngelOfDarkness]

Does this character kind look like a rip-off Lara from Aod? And it does not have to look like a clone like but just bits and pieces of her.

this is the character Nikki

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/rogueops/screens_6025944.html?page=9

here is Lara

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/images/angelofdarkness_screen4/screen2.jpg

[Raven25]

Yes, I'd definately say that looks quite like Lara. Not the face so much, but the hair and body shape sure do. Her top also looks quite similar to the top Lara wears in AOD.

[Ethereal]

Yes!!! It's a rip-off!!! bah!!!

[Mr.Deflok]

The New Zealand military is using a CG chick that's exactly like Lara to promote women joining the army... it's just sad. Surely they have some sort of creativity they can put to good use.

[Digital Angel]

*cough* Rip-off *cough*

Looks like a case of Attack of the Clones. :P Surely they could have given her a more original look?

[Cyber_Punk_303]

I never expected anything that BLATANT. That is a direct copy, man, where has all the creativity gone? Their not even TRYING to give her anything special or idiosycratic.

The holsters, hair, color scheme, pants... 100% Lara.

[Mr.Deflok]

Attack of the Clones? What's Star Wars got to do with Lara?

[tomb_raiding]

Who is that Girl ?? :confused:

[MacAngel]

Ok her name's Nikki Connors and the game looks like Oni crossed with TR. Some people just can't be original.:rolleyes:

[John Carter]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, they say. Looks like possible copyright infringement to me, though.

[total_inferno]

I hope they get sued..:o






:D

[snark^]

Tis the way of the world now. Bloodrayne was heavily modelled on a 2000AD character called Durham Red -- and indeed the game changed considerably from it's inital E3 outing last year to the one that hit the shops -- it's setting got shifted back to WW2 and Rayne's look has changed considerably from the almost complete resemblence it bore to Red's.

In the same vein, the upcoming vampire vs werewolves movie Underworld (Kate Beckinsdale in tight leather... how can it go wrong? :) ) is in serious trouble from some vampire role playing game and various other elements it bares more than a passing resemblence to.

[Cyber_Punk_303]

We could turn the tables and name the similarities between AOD and Metal Gear Solid/Splinter Cell/Resident Evil. It's got that kind of a vibe to it, don't it?

But ya, this is a shamful copy.

[Ethereal]

Originally posted by Cyber_Punk_303
We could turn the tables and name the similarities between AOD and Metal Gear Solid/Splinter Cell/Resident Evil. It's got that kind of a vibe to it, don't it?

But ya, this is a shamful copy.


No No No

AOD has nothing to do with those games you called. The only thing they have in common are the moves, and TR was just way behind with the moves. AOD gets them now too. A normal character is simply able to do all those moves. Otherwise it's not realistic. Those moves are a 'need' these days for games like TR. It's no copy of one of those games you said. It's completely independent and a normal progress in character movement that EVERY character in todays games should be able to do.

Look, characters with the same look, like they copied Lara is simply FOOLISH. The fact that people have the same moves is simply a NATURAL LAW because all people on earth are able to do the same moves. And to have a realistic game all characters must be able to do all those moves.

[Omega_Weapon]

That's an excuse.

Anyone who rips off Lara = thief

Anyone Lara rips off = natural; she should have had those moves by now anyway. Should've, could've, and would've doesn't change the fact that she didn't and MGS did first. I don't mind too much though. It brings the TR series into a different genre in a way, and as long as it doesn't completely abandon it's treasure hunting roots that made it fun in the first place, that's not so bad.

The new "serious stealth" Lara reminds me of the "Cool Girl" series from Japan (I think it's called "Cy Girl" in the US). Hell the coming game based on CG is being made by Konami, will use the very same engine and AI used in the MGS games, and is due later this year. I wonder if more arguments of "'X' game ripping off 'Y game'" will come up when that comes out and becomes a much more apparent competitor to the new TR game style.

[Ethereal]

Originally posted by Omega_Weapon
[B]That's an excuse.

On what is that based?
I didn't mension any argument that defends the lara rip-off.
And the moves lara now gets are not a 'rip-off' of anything!

You must see it like this:

The game evolution is one big tendency to reach realism. The fact that EVERY game has to follow this PRECLUDES the fact that a progress in AI, graphics, sound, character control etc. is considered as any form of aping.

[Omega_Weapon]

You don't think so? Solid Snake was sneaking up on people and breaking necks years before anyone else did. It's not evolution to suddenly change to carry features found in competing games. TR is a series that's now being forced to compete heavily now when it used to stand alone in the action genre, so it's no surprise and not a stretch of the imagination to figure out how to bring in elements of competing games that have been successful lately.

[Ethereal]

You really don't get it. Realism is that a character can do ANY movement. The fact that this isn't reached by ANY game in the near future does not take away that TR already has to take the moves that ARE available with todays technologie. TR is simply a game that has the tendency to have as much as possible moves. That is what makes TR TR. And if ALL moves will be available some day then they INCLUDE those moves you just called. Including stealth. So ONCE there will be a time they HAVE to be available in TR
And let AOD be this 'once'.
And the next game will have even more moves...
And the next one even more...
Etc.

And let other games also have even more moves...
Solid Snake will also get moves from Lara. Simply cause of the fact that EACH game has the tendency to... you know what I mean.

One game will need those moves more, another less. But some day the optimum is reached and EVERY game has all the moves, if they are needed or not. It's just the realism that cares.

AOD is just a TR with more moves, yes moves from other games included. But this is just a need. No aping from other games.


And about the rip-off character?
Well there is NO tendency to reach the ultimate character. This is just a matter of taste. For everyone it does look different. And Lara is NOT the ultimate character every game wants to have. The look of a game is a PURE form of art. And I think games allow one of the purest forms of art in every way. The fact that they design a character that looks like Lara is a pure form of LAG in creativity.

[Omega_Weapon]

What you call realism, I call a lack of creativity. Not all characters should be alike. Ever play Final Fantasy IX? Every character has his/her own unique capacities and abilities, and no two are alike. It's better that way. If too many "evolve" into being the same, then they'll all end up being the same to the point to where mediocracy breeds it's way into games. This is a problem especially noticable in fighter games, where there are so few out now that offer anything new that makes them worth buying. It'll suck if the action genre ends up as stale and uncreative as the fighter genre.

Besides, in the real world, not everyone has the same abilities. It would be more unrealistic than realistic to make game characters share too many abilities.

[Ethereal]

I don't mean every personal ability, lol. I mean all the moves EVERYONE can do. From picking up a coin to...
EVERYONE can do stealth. EVERYONE can do some fighting. The lag is just how good you're ate it? But some day EVERY character is able to do ANY basic move in games like TR.

You are going to a wrong direction, strategy games and FF** are complete different game types.
I'm talking about 'movement-games', games like TR where movement is one of the basic enjoyments.

[Omega_Weapon]

And about the rip-off character?
Well there is NO tendency to reach the ultimate character. This is just a matter of taste. For everyone it does look different. And Lara is NOT the ultimate character every game wants to have. The look of a game is a PURE form of art. And I think games allow one of the purest forms of art in every way. The fact that they design a character that looks like Lara is a pure form of LAG in creativity.

This is Nikki from Cool Girl:

http://www.hlj.com/cgi-perl/hljpage.cgi?TAK52576

This is Revenger from CG:
http://www.hlj.com/cgi-perl/hljpage.cgi?TAK53752

Hell here's the whole CG line-up:
http://www.hlj.com/cgi-perl/hljlist.cgi

The CG series has been out long enough to make a logical speculation that their para-military operations could be an influence for the "new" lara," and the fact that a CG game has been in the works for a couple of years and will use the MGS engine only lends credence to this theory. Lara is not the first "bad girl" dressed in black with a ton of weapons skills, and as Lara deters from raiding tombs, it is her who becomes more like other characters and not the other way around. She's entering a new genre with AOD. Believe it or not, there are many things in the stealth-action genre that have been in place before Lara joined in.

[Ethereal]

You are not listening. The only point I want to make clear is:
The fact that she gets the movements is a pure need. Cause of the evolution in games. Once EACH game has to take something from another game. ONLY because each game lies ahead with different things.

Now I stop argueing.

[Omega_Weapon]

Calling it a pure need now is not justification to cover up that the TR series is now borrowing form other games. Not everyone can do stealth. Snake, a trained military black-op specialist can. Lara, a millionaire with a lust for treasure, can't. Did she do a few years in the SEALS without us knowing about it? Final Fantasy IX is very much relevant as a comparison. You can't expect some princess who's never worked a day in her life to have the strength and skills of a battle-hardened knight general, and she doesn't. That's realism. I think they should keep her doing what's realistically possible to expect, instead of pushing her into another genre that's doing well right now.

Now I stop argueing.

I'm not arguing. I thought we were having a debate.

[Ethereal]

Okay, my lag of english maybe, a debate then. - Sorry -


Read back, I said this:

"The lag is just how good you're at it?"
In a scale from 0 to 100 this varies from 0 to 100!

And you are walking away!!! Now you're talking about the FF series. ALL THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR.

Ask yourself, TR always got more moves with each game. AOD also gets new moves. The fact that stealth moves are included is just a need. If TR didn't gets them now, okay!!! in 100 years then?!?!!! Yes! some day also she will be able to do those moves. You really don't get it.
That AOD has these moves now is not a 'ripping off' but an 'ALSO', yes ALSO she can do these moves now. Just like you can walk and I can walk!
She can do stealth and another action character can do stealth!

[Omega_Weapon]

Yes other action characters can, but they're trained to do so. Once again, is it reasonable to expect it of her to have skills to rival military personnel elsewhere? Don't forget she's not such a person, and at the core just a treasure hunter. Being realistic does also imply having realistic expectations of what someone can do. Remember Lara's amazing mid-air twist backwards jumps that clear more air than Michael Jordan?

[Mangar The Dark]

As we're talking of rip-offs, just a quick reminder:

Lara being chased by giant boulder while hunting for relics in Peru.... hmmm....

"Tomb RAIDER"... "RAIDERS of the Lost Ark." Nah... couldn't be a rip-off, could it? Lara would NEVER do something like that!

[Leigh Croft]

SUE SUE SUE! OH MY GOD THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! (SORRY IF IM BEIN A LITTLE DRAMATIC HERE!) HOW DARE THEY RIP OF THE MOSE SUCCESSFUL CHARACTER OF ALL TIME! SURELY IF YOUR GONNA NICK AN IDEA U AT LEAST TRY TO MAKE IT MODERATELY DIFFERENT, NOT JUST SLAP A NEW FACE ON IT.

[XanderD2]

Originally posted by Ethereal
AOD has nothing to do with those games you called. The only thing they have in common are the moves, and TR was just way behind with the moves. AOD gets them now too. A normal character is simply able to do all those moves. Otherwise it's not realistic. Those moves are a 'need' these days for games like TR. It's no copy of one of those games you said. It's completely independent and a normal progress in character movement that EVERY character in todays games should be able to do.

Look, characters with the same look, like they copied Lara is simply FOOLISH. The fact that people have the same moves is simply a NATURAL LAW because all people on earth are able to do the same moves. And to have a realistic game all characters must be able to do all those moves.

I could not agree more. When developers want to improve a character in a game series, they have the option of tweaking with the look of the character, and/or improving his/her abilities, including the moves. The trend is that they try to simulate real human moves as closely as possible (true, sometimes they go beyond human abilities when they use impossibly high or long jumps, gravity defying kicks just like those in a cheap kung-fu flick, or Matrix style slo-mo). This leads to a certain kind of convergence, which in turn leads to accusations because of the similarities.

As to the stealth move, it seems to me an obvious addition to Lara's moves. The ability to move unseen and undetected is, IMHO, a must for an adventurer. Why slaughter a whole tribe of natives guarding a sacred place when you can sneak past them? Many people complained that Lara killed innocent guards and MPs indiscriminately, now Core introduces the stealth move so you have the option to evade them safely (or the option to eliminate a single opponent without unleashing a small army alerted by the gunshots), and here comes the new complaint that they are copying other games, and only a person trained by military experts should be able to sneak. Man, Lara did a lot of things that went beyond the abilities of a self-proclaimed, high society drop-out adventurer (a high society girl's ability to use a silenced MP5, a grenade launcher or a rocket launcher efficiently is strange enough in itself).

In TR3, the High Security Compound level could have been a perfect stealth. So I think the stealth move is long overdue.

[Omega_Weapon]

I still find it laughable the way any TR rip-off is criticized while anything TR "evolved" from other games is justified. Maybe the makers in that first game in that first link just felt like "evolving" it's own game. Fanboys is what you are, and you don't even see it. Sure the TR games have been good, but please quit it with acting like it's not without outside influence with claims that Lara would have picked up those skills anyway. TR influenced other games and now TR is the one being influenced. It's that simple.

[rimfire]

Well, there's definitely a resemblance. The outfits are nearly identical. If you look close, the faces are a little bit different. It becomes a matter of "how many ways are there to display a woman in a computer game?" Beyond changing the color of the hair, eyes, and possibly skin, the faces are going to look a lot alike.

In the case of Harvey comics versus the movie "Ghostbusters," the court ruled that there simply aren't enough ways to draw a cartoon ghost so that one character isn't going to resemble another.

Hard to tell what they'd say here, but women's faces in computer games are fairly generic. They're either anime or they aren't. Back in the old forum I once posted a picture from Scientific American magazine in which a large number of women's faces had been computer-morphed into an average image. The result was not unlike Lara.

In other words, we recognize faces by the differences in things such as size and spacing of eyes, lips, nose, etc; but we find beauty in conformance to the average, and in that Lara is pretty average.

If Lara was beady-eyed, thin-lipped, and had a long hooked nose she'd be distinctive but we wouldn't like it much.

[Mangar The Dark]

Rimfire, re your signature: it's probably "rhetorical questions" that you hate (along with annoying nitpickers like me, sorry!)

[LaraAngelOfDarkness]

Originally posted by Mangar The Dark
As we're talking of rip-offs, just a quick reminder:

Lara being chased by giant boulder while hunting for relics in Peru.... hmmm....

"Tomb RAIDER"... "RAIDERS of the Lost Ark." Nah... couldn't be a rip-off, could it? Lara would NEVER do something like that!

Seeing how you are comparing the movie to a game isn't really relevant.(plus the boulder wasn't that big)

All I asked was do any of you think this character looks like a somewhat copy cat of Lara, not moves or any of that other crap! I mean they copied the double holster(with double pistol), the hair ,and some of the clothes. I mean why do all main character women seem to be modeled after Lara? And don't any one say well Lara wasn't the first playable "badass" girl (giving example: saying for instance Samus Aran from Metroid) Because I will respond that she has yet to be in a 3-d third person action/adventure game. I believe Lara was the first (and games where you can choose the guy don't count either). That is why mostly everygame that stars a woman by herself is compared to Lara. Anyway where has all the creativity gone? Why can't there be games with woman of different races as the hero? Oh well just forget this thread It just seems to cause anger.

Ps: Im not a TR fanboy, I play many other games with women to tell you if they rip off the way a character LOOKS not ACTS. Like Jill Valentine(RE1), Claire Redfield(RE2), Jennifer Tate(Primal), Alyssa Hamilton(Clock Tower 3), and All the FF series of women(they are all different looking and never seem to borrow others looks.) And also I told you guys that you didn't need to compare Lara's face to hers, just the way the body and clothes looked,and the gun holsters. Plus Lara looks more like a video game character and doesn't try to look real.

[Digital Angel]

Originally posted by Mr.Deflok
Attack of the Clones? What's Star Wars got to do with Lara?

I was refering to the fact that it looked like Lara had been cloned. :rolleyes:

[XanderD2]

Originally posted by LaraAngelOfDarkness
Why can't there be games with woman of different races as the hero?

Well, Rayne from BloodRayne is a woman of a different race (dhampir), but still a quote from the website intro says "Imagine if Kain and Lara had a daugther..." so it appears for some reason every major female character is automatically compared with Lara.

[Digital Angel]

I guess all female game characters now will automatically be compared with Lara. She is, after all, perhaps the most sucessful and most wellknown female character in video games now..

But I'm sure it's possible to make the new characters look different from Lara...or do all of them have to have Lara's chest size and hair colour? :p

[total_inferno]

lara is that sexy girl which you just wish you could be *to the gals* ..

i.e. I wanted to make a charecter one day named inferno drew a few sketches ... couldn't draw allt ht too well.. heard of devil may cry 2 looked at some pics and he looked almost like Inferno in my head *except for da hair..* this is because I pictuafre tht as the ultimate cool guy... core pictured lara as the ultimate sexy girl.. remember when she won a beauty contest in '98 as a core/eidos guy pulled a huge tv and and simulated her walk down the path... al the other woman where real... lara won..

My point is how ever you pictuare the ultimate charecter is up to you .. people tend tot hink the same sometimes looking at a charecter trying to base one upon another but then ending up with way too much in common.. even her stance.. tht is lack of creativity... and that is what courts are for.. gary is probably reading this thread lookin' at da pic.. core might just as well file for inrcimination(sp?) of copyright or w.e. it is...

last thoguhts: sometimes things happen by accident .. sometimes you like something so much you would like to make your own of that.

--Inferno out

[Iron Fuse]

"I've been deeply invovled in the gaming comunity for years"(G4 add on TR website), Lara has been around for a while (almost 7 years) so any one who has'nt seen what Lara looks like is must not know what a Playsation is. I have Metal Gear solid 1 its rated as one of the best PS1 games ever and the second is looking like it will do the smae thing. I was actully hoping you could do some of the Metal Gear stuff in TR because its fun interesting and can change some of the aspects of the game. AOD will be interesting because of the fact that we will finally see "Smart" enermies, something MGS is proud of.

Sometimes you can't help copying things which are good, because they SELL! Plus how many variations of a woman made out 500 polygons can you have?

[Mr.Deflok]

I'm surprised no-one mentioned the pillege of the Quake 3 engine.

[THE True Lara]

Am I the only person who can't see the picture!?

[XanderD2]

Originally posted by Iron Fuse
Sometimes you can't help copying things which are good, because they SELL! Plus how many variations of a woman made out 500 polygons can you have?

But now that she is made up of 5000 polygons striking resemblance cannot be explained any more by that reasoning.