Has anyone discussed this yet?

[doomswoman1]

I've finally gotten a hold of Blood Omen 2 and
I just wanted to know if anyone has discussed
'How Umah died' as opposed to 'why'Umah died.
I'd really appreciate any information on the
subject. I'm trying to resolve what might be
a small inconsistency on the part of the game
between 'Soul Reaver' and 'Blood Omen'.
"Vampire's Immortal flesh begins to close as
soon as it is cleaved." Raziel says.
Could Umah have been killed by Kain simply ripping
out her throat? Or did a Sarafan 'clean-up'
man come through and shove a stake in her chest?

[FireSnake]

I hope You enjoyed BO2. :) I did.
Anyway, down to the matter.
My opinion is...
You see, Raziel's from the future when vampire's were more much more highly evolved.
Umah did die through Kain's hands (if the developers don't want to bring her back). And besides - in BO2 Kain also dies of "simple" sword-attacks.
At BO2 time the vampires were not so highly evolved, they retained much of their human image. Their skin was similar to humans and that's why they died of slash wounds. At least that's what I think.

EDIT: Oh, it popped to my mind later that Umah was "running out of blood". But nonetheless yeah - the thing probably is that they weren't so highly evolved. They could have some minor healing ability but who knows. Umah could have been saved if Kain gave her his blood, then the wounds would have closed.

[doomswoman1]

Yes, I enjoyed it tremendously!:D The acting
and the closeups are wonderful; although I wish
some of the longer scenes could be broken up
better. And I love the wall murals.
But back to Umah. If vamps could be killed by
simple sword strokes, why bother with the whole
impalement thing? Back in the original Sarafan
age, you see large numbers of vampires on stakes.
I always felt that they used the swords to hold the vampires at bay, then somebody would bring
the stake. Umah didn't crumble to dust, like
Kain does; her body just lies there. I figured
that at that rate, she could simply heal up (its
not a conscious action;it just happens)and crawl
to the next body. Maybe the swords were dipped
in garlic, or something.

[Jeffers]

I think that she died because of the lack of blood. If you remember it is that which she requests from kain before he actually kills her.

I will go and see if I can find the quote, at the moment all I can remember from that bit is Kain saying "you will die enlightend"

Jeffers

[FireSnake]

Actually no need for a quote. She said something uh: "I need your blood, Kain, PLEASE!" or something.
The thing is she just received too many blows and "ran" out of blood (just like the in-game in BO2 - you receive attacks, the blood level in the blood-o-meter decreases).
And vampires NEED blood to survive as Umah pointed out.
But Kain didn't give her blood, so naturally, she died.

And I think the Sarafan used impalement for a "quickjob". There were other ways to kill a vampire. One is the lack of blood. And Umah suffered from it. So she died.

So my theory wasn't entirely wrong - the vampires in SR couldn't be fully destroyed by simple attacks, because they were too highly evolved.

The vampires of BO2, SR2 and BO were too "young". I hope that answers Your question. :)

[doomswoman1]

There's the problem!
Vampires can't die, because they're dead already! Blood, unless I'm mistaken, is for
maintaining the corpse they're in, i.e. not
smelling funny, not having hunks of rotting
flesh falling off, not withering up and looking
like desicated mummies, or not lapsing into a
coma. Don't mistake me, I know they need blood,
but I don't think not having blood will kill them.
If anything, it would only motivate the desperate
vampire to get more. The first person who opened
the crypt would get it---big time!
Kain I can see 'dying' because he is the
'player-character', who isn't exactly subject
to the same rules as non-player characters.
You don't see other dead vampires reforming
at save points. I can see him crumbling to
dust too, because he is indeed quite old.
If all you needed to do to kill a vampire
was just starve them of blood, all they'd have
to do was simply seal their tomb and walk away.
If all you needed to do was hack them with swords
you could do that, and just dump their bodies
in a plague pit and walk away. You wouldn't
have to worry about them coming back to get you.
But they are worried.
In BO2 I saw a mural with a hylden holding
the upper torso of a vampire. Pretty permanent
way of disposing of an enemy, I'd say. My point
is that, without impalement, without the body
crumbling to dust, without dismemberment, can we
really say that Umah is dead? Its kind of like
the original Dracula...after and pages of talking
about wooden stakes, the Count is dispatched with
a knife?

[Umah Bloodomen]

Umah is physically dead, but there is no evidence that she ceases to exist spiritually.

Her soul was never reaved, and Kain never drank from her, taking whatever life-force she had. (Kind of like what he does to Sebastian, Faustus, Marcus and Magnus - which ensured their passing).

Whether they bring her back for BO3, is uncertain. But from my perspective, it has been left open for it to happen.

[Time Streamer]

I can agree with that, Umah. As long as the traditional methods to kill a vampire (in Nosgoth) aren't used and the corpse remains intact, he/she can come back in some way e.g. with help of another, stronger vampire.

[warpsavant]

Vampires can't die, because they're dead already!


No, they are not. It depends what vampires you are talking about. Even then, there isn't much(any...) evidence to support the theory that they are already dead (unless you talk about Kain and his six sons, who are the only known(for certain) vampires raised from dead people).

[FireSnake]

I have to agree - Umah WAS left in a condition capable of bringing her character back in future series. She wasn't burned, impaled, cut to slices, thrown to water or sunlight or slashed with the SR.
She can be very much alive in BO3.

[darien_specter]

I had just chalked it up to another one of the rampant inconsistencies in BO2, altered timeline or not. The altered timeline doesn't change that there are only certain ways to kill a vampire, which has been true of every other game (unless it's when we play as Kain, in which case something has to happen to him to give that as a gameplay element.) I suppose it's plausible that they could starve to death, as with any creature; but I just don't know about getting beaten up as enough to kill a vampire...

And while it does seem plausible that she has been left in some method to return (for instance: she wakes up, and crawls off to heal herself...) I should hope that she doesn't, unless it's as some sort of heinous biyotch bent on revenge who must be dispatched as a matter of course. BO3, I should hope, really needs to get to the point, that is, the raising of the six lieutenants and building the empire ruled from Kain's throne at the Pillar of Balance, a story arc that seemed complete from the end of BO to the beginning of SR, and which was sort of interrupted by BO2. We really don't need more dithering about...

[doomswoman1]

O.k., I can see Umah returning for BO3 or even
SR 3 (I think it would be soooo ironic for Kain
to have to ask for Umah and Raziel's help to
save Nosgoth. Squirm Kain! Or just for Umah to
be able to say "I told you so!"
But on the idea of whether vampires are dead...
I think they are. The fact that, even though
their curse makes them immortal, they can no
longer reproduce says so. By reproduce I mean
there will be no cute blue winged babies with
three fingered hands. What the Hylden did seems
to me to be like mass-murder. A species which
can no longer reproduce is dead.
I mean, I know that they can reproduce magically.
But they have to use human corpses
to do it. The parent-child relationship remains,
because a baby vampire still has to be taught, and
is probably very dependent upon its creator until
it learns about its new 'life'. (Kain, of course,
is the exception because he kept his memories)
Temporarily switching to a different subject:
does anyone know where I can find copies of those
pictures of Kain from the ending credits of BO2?
He is so fine!

[FireSnake]

Ummm... The vampires in Nosgoth can have offspring. They just slightly bite their victim, infecting them with their curse. The victim starts to be poisoned... and voila - a vampire.
Kain is a rare exception for he was resurrected in a whole different way. He can generate new vampires by 'blowing' a piece of his soul into them, of course he can infect them with his curse.
The 'common' vampires of Nosgoth have one way, Kain has two, of doing it.
Anyway, I just remembered that Vorador said that "making a vampire requires time and a lot of energy" (BO2). Was he referring that he also could make a vampire the same way as Kain could?

- Matthew

[keepittrue]

Firesnake, this is one reason why I think they tampered with the story too much, but no I dont think V made his Vamps the same way as Kain.

I disagree somewhat of what Warpsavant said. I believe ALL Vampires are dead or should I say in a undead state. I think the fact that Kain makes his Vampires with his soul is what makes the difference like what Warp said. I believe maybe this somewhat played a role in why the Vamps in SR1 never died by wounds or loss of blood, they all were products of Kains race of Vamps. Actually I also did believe ALL Vamps had to die in one of the such ways but it appears that maybe the ones in the non-Kain race could not survive without blood for too long.

[solidsnake]

It's been said in the interview w/ Amy that Vorador doesn't make his vamps like Kain... Vorador uses the traditional method while Kain uses a unique necromancy method. It says this in Blincs site, I think. And while the topic was on whether Umah could die by just receiving slash wounds because she wasn't evolved enough... I'd say she was pretty evolved... she just lacked the cloven claws and feet... I mean she could already teleport. That seems something a vamp wouldn't be gifted w/ without quite a few years under their belt.

[Darakari]

I think the developers created this opportunity on purpose. That way they can have the option of bringing Umah back in SR3. Umah is just too cool of a character to out-right totally destroy. She needs the opportunity to redeem herself and become a much larger part of a future storyline, rather than just being demoted to a simple trainer for the main character.

If Kain can come back after 200 years of death, then I don't see why a decapitated Vorador or a blood-empty Umah cannot come back thru some kind of resurrection.

[Hash'ak'gik]

It wouldn't work if it turned out Kain hadn't killed Umah properly. It would completly take all the drama out of when Kain did kill her.:rolleyes: The only way I think Crystal could succesfully pull it off is if something like the Heart of Darkness was involved.:p

[Vampmaster]

I recon she would have just lay there like one of the SR1 wraiths until she either recovered enough blood (maybe someone else would need to put in into her sice she's incapacitated)to heal or was finished off by a random Sarafan passing by or if she stayed there until daytime. (It was always night or indoors in BO2. I guess the cabal would have waited until night to begin their missions.) I think Kain turned to dust because that's how his body is drawn to the check points. Same way Raziel gathers matter except Kain re-uses his.

Hehe "We're all dust in the wind, dude!" ~ Bill & Ted

I guess we don't see if he goes spectral because he'd just be a floating soul there and can't manifest like raziel does.

[Umah Bloodomen]

I think it is warp and I who held a rather interesting debate on the reproduction habits of Nosgoth's vampire populace.

A question about Vorador (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2356&highlight=Vampire+reproduction+habits)

Doomswoman ~ FireSnake pretty much summed it up. The Ancients had to find another means of reproducing, hence the bite. To delve deeper into this a bit, the question now raised from this is, did the Ancients actually intend to reproduce that way or was the "vampiric curse" inflicted on the land of Nosgoth, merely an accident?

Allow me to elaborate.

When the Hylden cursed the Ancient race after their little battle royalé, the Ancients underwent a dramatic evolutionary change (including physical changes and needs e.g. the thirst for blood, ability to reproduce by normal means). Here we have two imediate threats to the Ancient's survival (Hunger and Extinction). Okay, I am willing to bet now that the discovery of their inability to reproduce wasn't made right off the bat. Let's focus on the Hunger aspect. The Ancients begin lusting after something new, something feral if you will. Let's assume that at first they began feeding off the Nosgoth animal population, which was sustaining them for awhile, but also posing a threat to that animal population. Somewhere down the line, a hungry Ancient gets it in his head to feed off the next best thing (which would also be increasing in numbers) humanity. Seeing that I've never seen or heard of a vampiric cow or anything, I think we can assume that animals weren't at risk for becoming a vampire. Humans on the otherhand, (as we've seen) either due to genetics or the intentions of the Hylden curse, were susceptible to becoming vampires.

Lets now focus back on the reproduction aspect. I believe when the Ancients tried carrying on what normal everyday functions they could following the curse (again, I feel that the bloodthirst would be the most apparent), it was discovered that their ability to reproduce normally existed no longer. Let's assume that their numbers began to dwindle, from death occuring from natural causes, disease etc. and the time came to replenish themselves and they could not (implying that the focus on reproduction was stronger than normal). From feeding off the human race, it is also discovered that humans now join the wonderful world of the undead. Okay, so the last of the Ancients make the decision to round up who they've turned (if they could) and turned new individuals to carry on their legacy. I think this is where Vorador comes in.

Also, you may wish to check the Nosgothic Realm or the Xbox site for BO2 related images. I also recommend a search through Google.

FireSnake ~ My objective opinion regarding Vorador knowing how to reproduce magically (as Kain does) does not fly. I don't think he does, although I am sure it could be possible for him to learn. Vorador also doesn't strike me as much of a weilder of magic other than the dark gifts intended for him to use and acquire.

My biased opinion reverts back to my hell-bent nature on exposing Vorador as a traitor. :p I believe Vorador's comment in BO2 was one of BS to be honest. He could've reproduced the species if he wanted and didn't. I felt that he was merely buying time and trying to get Kain to stop dwelling on that as an option. What little vampire group he had was merely expendible IMO, after Vorador acheived what he was promised from whoever he has ties with, and Kain was brought to his knees, only then I believe Vorador would've replenished the race.

Vorador...something fishy going on with this one. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4168&highlight=Vampire+reproduction+habits)

Keep ~ To elaborate a bit on what you and warp expressed, from Kain being of "magical origins" I would assume that his traits would be passed on to his sons, meaning, I don't think they can reproduce through the bite either. (Same goes for their offspring). I agree with your sentiments of how Kain's progeny cannot die through normal wounds or loss of blood.

solidsnake ~ warp and I once estimated Umah's age to be around 200 years or below. She was definately not as old as Sebastian, Marcus or Magnus, although Faustus could most likely be around her age. She was still a fledgling IMO. Again this points back to what Keep was expressing, normal vampires have relatively easy-to-determine weaknesses as far as being inflicted with fatal wounds and loss of blood. Vorador being Umah's sire would make her susceptible to these. I don't think you could inflict the same wounds upon fledgling Raziel. I believe it would take a lot more to hurt/destroy him. As far as ripping Raziel's wings off is concerned, it was obvious that he felt the pain, and a wound was inflicted (although it isn't quite the same as slashing Umah). Raziel clearly underwent a period of weakness due to his injury, but it wasn't enough to cause him to bleed to death as he was taken to the Abyss. Had Kain allowed him to recover, I would assume that it wouldn't take as long as it would a normal Ancient/vampire.

Darakari ~ I believe that the only way we will see Umah in a SR-game will be if the SR series transcends time to the extent of following the BO storyline/ BO2 timeline. (Moreso, traveling back to BO1 and maybe seeking the Seer's guidence in BO2 from a SR-perspective). I am inclined to believe that in SR3 we will see interference with the BO storyline a bit. Again though, I don't find the Umah appearance very likely unless it was in BO3. Also, BO2 is on the altered timeline which does give us a little bit of insight as to how Vorador returned, but at the same token, if he proves to be a traitor, then whoever resurrected him, he would be in some sort of debt to I would imagine. (Vorador strikes me as being that proper and courteous).

Hash ~ The Heart of Darkness is again another option, but realisitically, you could pick those things up all over BO, (like they were candy) that isn't too realistic IMO. Also, lets assume Janos is resurrected in SR3, how are you going to bring anyone else back with his heart if it is in his chest? Kill him again? Janos would become the Kenny of Nosgoth. :p
I would like to hear Janos' sentiments on being so expendible. LOL. What I am trying to get at is that because the series wasn't expected to come this far, we need to consider the new light shed on old artifacts (such as the HoD). Since SR2, it has been given a more direct purpose in its being, I am assuming that its usage now also has more limitations.

Vampmaster ~ Nice thought on Umah becoming a wraith. Although if she did/does prove to still be holding on to the material realm (by the skin of her teeth :p) then I would assume that someone would have to assist in her recovery. (Be it the Cabal, Vorador or whoever Vorador is working for).

See, I told you I was hell-bent on V being a traitor. :p

[FireSnake]

-Nods-

Hmmm... Yes...
You've got a point there Umah. Vorador was very likely BS-ing about the thing that he couldn't produce other vampires to help Kain (BO2)...
I mean - exactly HOW much time and energy does hunting a bunch of peasants down, biting them and waiting for them to turn into vampires take?
It would seem rather easy to me if I was a vampire...

-Nods-

Yes. It now seems a lot clearer. I'm beginning to see Vorador in another way... Why didn't I think of that?

Thanks, I'm now going to read that thread about Vorador too.

- Matthew

[Vinicius]

I thought the creation of a vampire was more like Anne Rice style, that's why Vorador couldn't produce more vampires

[FireSnake]

How is exactly that Anne Rice-style vampire creating? *Feels embarassed* :(

But still, I read that thread mentioned above, and now I too think that there's something wrong with Vorador...
I always thought him as a quiet, neutral character who was grieving over his fallen family... But now it seems that there's far more to it.

- Matthew

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by Vinicius
I thought the creation of a vampire was more like Anne Rice style, that's why Vorador couldn't produce more vampires

There are currently no specifics on anything other than a bite-induced reproduction method. Over the centuries there have been many instances of modern vampire folklore, each with a new method of their birth, death, and methods of survival, length between feeds, etc.

The LOK-vampires (although derived from modern folklore and molded into a new breed in their own right) are left open for speculations such as the one I, and others have provided.


I would also like to take this opportunity to disclose the fact the first link I posted in my last response was from July into August. It was partly due to that discussion which began making me question if Vorador is a traitor.


FireSnake ~ I never doubted the validity of Vorador being a tortured soul. I imagine he was very close to his own sire, and his death was very traumatic for him. It has been very apparent throughout the series that Vorador is anti-humanity. Joining forces with the Hylden (whom I believe are the main candidates for him to join) would further guarantee his dominance over humanity, alongside the Hylden. Vorador never strikes me as liking Kain (in BO or BO2), and we know The Sarafan Lord doesn't like Kain (as well as The Elder, Moebius and to an extent, Raziel). Vorador isn't amongst the ancients the Hylden battled in the past, so I don't see why TSL's grudge would be carried over to Vorador.

[Hash'ak'gik]

The Hylden hate all vampires Umah, even those who didn't paticipate in the Hylden/Winged Vampires (WV) war.

As for ressurecting Umah, there might be other ways to ressurect Vampires, like through Necromancy. as for the heart of darkness, there are two options to using it again:

-The HOD can be used multiple times.

-Its not just Janos's heart that can be used. Perhaps all the WV's hearts had the ability, afterall they were supposed to once be god-like in power.

Plus we don't know yet if Raziel uses the HOD on Janos.:cool:

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by Hash'ak'gik
The Hylden hate all vampires Umah, even those who didn't paticipate in the Hylden/Winged Vampires (WV) war.

I don't feel they actually hate any vampire other than those they initally cursed. It's called propaganda. How else is an alien-race going to sway the majority into following/helping them? Play off a bigger problem.

The Human sentiments towards the vampire race was not kind (and is common knowledge). "Human's fear what they don't understand", yet if what they don't understand caters to their needs and rids them of what hunts them in the night, a new relationship arises. I didn't exactly see any Hylden-hating noblemen and women in Meridian. They existed rather peacefully. The Sarafan Knights served the Sarafan Lord loyally and without question.

Originally posted by Hash'ak'gik
As for ressurecting Umah, there might be other ways to ressurect Vampires, like through Necromancy. as for the heart of darkness, there are two options to using it again:

-The HOD can be used multiple times.

-Its not just Janos's heart that can be used. Perhaps all the WV's hearts had the ability, afterall they were supposed to once be god-like in power.

Plus we don't know yet if Raziel uses the HOD on Janos.:cool:


1. Point out one other individual besides Kain and Mortanius who has demonstrated the means of raising a vampire through necromancy. Better yet, point out another possible candidate. There aren't that many vampires remaining in Nosgoth you know. (And I will shoot a notion of Vorador down in a heartbeat and I've backed up my claims as to why).

2. Explain to me how the HoD can be used numerous times in a believable manner now that new light has been shed on its existence.

3. I have not seen any evidence to support your last theory. From the beginning (BO) it was stated that the HoD belonged specificially to Janos Audron. (Which leads to our speculations of him being the Eldest ancient or whatever).

I am not disputing the fact that the ancients aren't "godlike" as you put it, but go back to Vorador's sentiments in SR2 of how the Ancients are perceived as being fairytales. Sure they have power, but how much of what we know of the Ancients is actually truth and how much of it is fiction?

Many modern religions and beings have been distorted through the ages, it could very well apply here as well especially from the different perspectives (Ancient vs. Hylden bias).

Nobody is going to claim they are the biggest idiots or weakest race, or the sore loser. They're each going to build themselves up as being divine because of their pride and so they preserve themselves for future generations in legends etc.

[Hash'ak'gik]

1. I think Amy Henning said Kain"s Vampires were all raised through Necromany, so probably the clan leaders could do it, and possibly some old members of the Clans. Correct me if I am wrong.

2. We don't know if it can or can't its just a theory.:rolleyes:

3. Same as 2.

As for your last comment, the SL said that both the Vampires and the Hylden were fallen gods, both trying regain they're former glory. Even the Hylden, the WV sworn enemies, don't dispute the WV were God-like.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by Hash'ak'gik
1. I think Amy Henning said Kain"s Vampires were all raised through Necromany, so probably the clan leaders could do it, and possibly some old members of the Clans. Correct me if I am wrong.

I believe I actually said something similar to that based on the heritage of Kain, that his offspring would naturally reproduce in the same manner as he would. My statements elaborated on Amy's when she stated that Kain had unique heritage and further explained how his soul was used. In fact I believe I made that comment rather recently.


Originally posted by Hash'ak'gik
2. We don't know if it can or can't its just a theory.:rolleyes:

3. Same as 2.

No, we don't, but at least one of us can actually say we've fully elaborated on our speculations as opposed to just throwing them in the open. I'll give you a hint, so far it hasn't been you. I asked you to support your theory and so far I am still waiting for your elaboration.

After all it really isn't much of a theory if it isn't explained. That is like me saying:

Grass is green.

Okay and? Where was my point? That's right there wasn't one. Now if I would have descibed the intricacies of chlorophil and how it enables grass and other vegetation to appear green, then we'd have something to ponder wouldn't we? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Hash'ak'gik
As for your last comment, the SL said that both the Vampires and the Hylden were fallen gods, both trying regain they're former glory. Even the Hylden, the WV sworn enemies, don't dispute the WV were God-like.

Allow me to even quote myself, because this part obviously slipped through some crack or another. :rolleyes: :o

Originally posted by me not even 10 minutes ago

I am not disputing the fact that the ancients aren't "godlike" as you put it, but go back to Vorador's sentiments in SR2 of how the Ancients are perceived as being fairytales. Sure they have power, but how much of what we know of the Ancients is actually truth and how much of it is fiction?

Many modern religions and beings have been distorted through the ages, it could very well apply here as well especially from the different perspectives (Ancient vs. Hylden bias).

Nobody is going to claim they are the biggest idiots or weakest race, or the sore loser. They're each going to build themselves up as being divine because of their pride and so they preserve themselves for future generations in legends etc.

I said nothing about who was and wasn't returning anything to their former glory. I dissected the notion of propaganda and bias amongst humans, vampires and hylden. I will now disesect the "god" notion. :rolleyes:

The "fallen god" aspect is clearly egotism at its finest. Sure, if I pulled off a bunch of feats in my lifetime that were worthy of recognition, I'd call myself a god too. In modern standards, gods are actually saints. :rolleyes: But even to be cannonized, one must prove their contributions (usually in the form of a set amount of "miracles" and other good deeds, not to mention you usually have to be dead). Prove to me where either race is worthy of being considered a god by the general consensus. Sure, we built some pillars, and a sword, used a little magic here and there, even dished out the miracle grow into the finest hydroponic lab that ever existed. But where does that differ from any other magic/technological weilding race/being whatever. The Circle of Nine weren't gods. They didn't create anything special, they had magic that served a specific purpose. It's all smoke and mirrors. David Copperfield would be a great example of magic in modern day, he isn't a god.

Originally posted by warpsavant
So to these people and Moebius the Elder is a god.

The same way that Kain was a god to the Priestess. Kain was a small baby Kain at one time but people in Nosgoth (and on this board) still think of him as a god.

But does this really make them gods? No, I dont think so. They are gods "in" Nosgoth. But somewhere there might be gods "of" Nosgoth. Who knows.

warp sums it up well here. People believe what they are lead to believe and what they want to believe. The ancients and the hylden both paint a perfect picture of themselves. It is all based on interpretation. We weren't there, how are we to know otherwise? They create their gods and their religions and whatever. To their followers, they are heroes, and it doesn't matter what little tidbits are left out of the public eye.

All I am getting at is that there is too much bias and heresay involved. I never disputed the power of each race or their ability to weild magic or technology. I merely dissected the notion of their "godhood" and called for some actual proof not based on bias and perspective.

In closing though, do me a big favor and tell me where either race stated any of their faults and where/how they screwed up anywhere in the series. :o

EDIT: Just for clarification, being "godlike" isn't the same as being a god.

[Vampmaster]

As far as I know, only the Sarafan lord claimed to actually be a god and only the manual and Moebius said the Elder was a god. Kain and Janos compare themselves with gods but don't actually think they are.

[Umah Bloodomen]

Originally posted by Vampmaster
As far as I know, only the Sarafan lord claimed to actually be a god and only the manual and Moebius said the Elder was a god. Kain and Janos compare themselves with gods but don't actually think they are.

I am much obliged for this little tidbit, Vampmaster.

[Hash'ak'gik]

I'm not disputing if the WV or Hylden were gods, I was talking about wether or not all WV hearts had the same powers as Janos's. It would certinly explain why Janos apparently has 100 hearts:p :D .

[Vampmaster]

The coloured ones in the Air forge sure didn't!

[doomswoman1]

The discussion on the Heart of Darkness is fascinating, so here's my take on it:
there is only one Heart of Darkness. What
you win, in BO, are opportunities to 'use'
said 'Heart'. You know, "Kain kills thirty
ground sloths and earns a spare minute to use
the heart of darkness. He doesn't have to
use it right away, instead he saves it for
a more opportune moment. I guess that would've
probably made it come under the time streamer's
powers, though.
So Kain is carrying this black, heart-thing
(In a pouch I hope) and drinks from it whenever
he tires, or can't find a victim. Gross, but
neat!:cool:

[Hash'ak'gik]

Me agree.:)

[Plink]

Hey everyone, the whole heart of darkness thing going on in Blood Omen was a way of getting Kain more health. The game wasn't supposed to carry on. CD bought the rights or something, seeing potential, and voila, SoulReaver was born. The point I'm making is that sometimes things are being taken too seriously.
I don't think the whole multiple HoD thingo in BO has anything to do with SR's HoD. It was a great idea and the crew used it to the best of their ability.
My two cents...

[DMraider]

Originally posted by Plink
Hey everyone, the whole heart of darkness thing going on in Blood Omen was a way of getting Kain more health. The game wasn't supposed to carry on. CD bought the rights or something, seeing potential, and voila, SoulReaver was born. The point I'm making is that sometimes things are being taken too seriously.
I don't think the whole multiple HoD thingo in BO has anything to do with SR's HoD. It was a great idea and the crew used it to the best of their ability.
My two cents...

I agree !!:)

[Plink]

Hmm...what if Raziel didn't use the heart on Janos, as Kain asked...and used it on himself...? Is it not rumored we loose the power to shift...?
Hmm....the ancients reborn...through Raziel...

Scary.

[Hash'ak'gik]

I don't think Raziel is strictly dead, or a proper Vampire, so he couldn't use the the HOD :( . Cool idea though....