What do you like about THIEF?

[cGREGgo]

The developers making THI4F should know why we like it so much, don't you agree? So the tradition can continue in THI4F... right?

I like Thief because there are no guns! Almost every major game out there is "shoot him, shoot her, shoot him, get shot, shooting, shooting, shooting, shoot, shot, shot...

THIEF is sooooo different, I can't wait to play again! :wave:

[jtr7]

We spent all of 2009 and over half of 2010 describing these things for the devs. I could fill a small book alone, but I'd get bored pretty quick.

[acridrose]

We spent all of 2009 and over half of 2010 describing these things for the devs. I could fill a small book alone, but I'd get bored pretty quick.

small book is an understatement. You could write the thief bible, man!

[Umah Bloodomen]

I like the fact that Thief requires a lot of skill and patience. I also like the variation of "no guns".

[xAcerbusx]

The atramentous look. The mood. The fact that the world is so different, so unique. The endlessly varied gameplay. The depth of detail in each level. The godlike feeling that you can get through any mission without anyone even raising an eyebrow.

That's the magic of Thief to me.

[phaelax]

I like the atmosphere and ambient effect of the game. I like the humor that's been mixed into the game in a way that it makes me laugh but isn't so cheesy that I just walk away. Love the story line and style of the cut-scenes. And no other game has ever managed to sneak up on me in the dark and scare the crap out of me!

[jtr7]

Yes! :cool: :thumb:

[L34dP1LL]

I don't remember what game reviewer once mentioned "I never thought that (taking into account the action-packed games that were around when TDP was released) just staying in the shadows hearing everything around you could be so much fun."

[Psychomorph]

One of the things I like about Thief is, that even if you have a normal burglary mission, the places always have this eerie atmosphere, like something supernatural could occur any moment. It feels like the whole city is encased by a mist of the mysterious and magical, even during the normal every day life... at least at night.

[Davehall380]

A game that requires patience, the ability to listen and to apply logic and skill to solve (by and large) non-scripted situations

[CabooseMan]

I love the open ended, sprawling levels more than anything else. There are few games to this day that I can still replay and find secrets like in Thief 2 (well, perhaps Deus Ex)

[ApertureRat]

The atmosphere , and dropping dead guards from a ledge onto a crowded street. priceless.

[:-D]

I like that Thief Gold can still make me lose control of my mouse in fright, still catch me out, still make me think ahead and plan, after 12 years away. I don't think any of the 40+ xbox games I've bought in the interval have done that for me. A bargain at £6 for the trilogy!

[jtr7]

:cool: :thumb:

[:-D]

lol garretedit!

[jtr7]

Danger averted! Heh heh.



I love how the game seems tailored to players like myself who consider run'n'gun hack'n'slash gaming as cerebral and rewarding as watching television after midnight until the sun comes up: An utter waste of time and money, in a trance-like, state allowing the happenings playing out on the monitor to pull me along just barely from one second to the next.

[cGREGgo]

Turn out all the lights in the room so you're playing the game in the dark. Start up one of those levels where you're standing outside a mansion or castle. Roaming around the grounds trying to figure how to break in without getting busted. Once you're inside, pull out your to-do list of things to steal. Then get busy... :nut:

OMG, The adrenaline is flowing and I'm a total criminal without doing anything wrong!

Priceless! :nut:

[JCpie]

No idea. It crashes when I try to play.

[:-D]

No idea. It crashes when I try to play.

. . .
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/62/patient_bear.jpg

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131046

[Dragonflame]

Thief is one of my all time favourite games. i love how you can sneak in the back alleys and walk around the city and explore, i wish this game takes place in a huge city with much to explore and the arrows that takes out torches is so cool. and beeing on rooftops is another cool thing

[veilur]

I like the Garretts's voice, because his voice is that voice that matches perfect with the character and other strong element in this game I like it is the ambient sound that generate a great game atmosphere.

[Fredster]

I love the atmosphere, the fact that stealth is the majority skill required and the great great great! story!

[trentwalker]

The ambient music is awesome. It does so much for the game's atmosphere and feeling.

[keeperr]

Turn out all the lights in the room so you're playing the game in the dark. Start up one of those levels where you're standing outside a mansion or castle. Roaming around the grounds trying to figure how to break in without getting busted. Once you're inside, pull out your to-do list of things to steal. Then get busy... :nut:

OMG, The adrenaline is flowing and I'm a total criminal without doing anything wrong!

Priceless! :nut:

Yes!
The medieval atmosphere, conversations, environment, the quiet zones, the slow pace, the timing, the required patience and intense moments where it could be now or never, the choices to climb up to a balcony, break in on the roof, a back door or through the damn sewage, or damn even the front door if you can pull it off.
The element of suprise. First time I did EAVESDROPPING a guard spotted me (must have been from the upper level) when i was checking the alter. I heard nothing and saw nothing, until she was directly behind me swinging that damn hammer "RAAAAH DIE TAFFER!!" omg i screamed like a *****.
Good times.

[Ytheif]

I love that its thrilling, kind of mysterious. Also love the no guns. Sward + bow and arrow.
Love the middle age theme. Love that you play as the person, in there view.
Completed Thief 1-3. My daughter also played them and we would play together sometime.
Can not wait to play Thi4f!!!!!!! :D

[trentwalker]

I like how there are so many different random things that the characters say. I have played T3 a million times, and every time I play, once in a while, somebody will say something I have never heard before.

[Zhoul]

I must say that the previous responses contain many of the things that I too loved in Thief. It's good to see these people still exist that don't want the game to start and then immediately, fireworks and fanfare for successfully completing the intro. (Seriously, some games today offer so much instant gratification, i'm surprised people can play them without c@#%ing all over themselves, thus requiring towel support from an outsider, like the wife or girlfriend.).

Since thief dev has been so slow since it's inception (not a complaint.. get it right... when it's done it's done) and I have seen darn near every inch of the 3 worlds currently available, I went searching for other games like Thief.

Assassins Creed. The first in it's series, an epic failure. By far, not as cool as thief, especially since it was built for console, then later ported to PC. Uninstallation of this game was much faster than installation and gave the user more options than a given mission in the game itself. I played uninstall over and over, just to see how many paths to completion I had. A total of 3 paths to completion gave me 2 more paths than a given mission in AC offered.

(Note: If you're thinking "ALL AC games are made for console.", you are both right and wrong. After AC 2's massive success, design of each successive game has taken into account that the game would later be ported to PC, where as AC1 does not appear to have ever had this intention in it's initial design.)


Then, someone over at Ubisoft finally plays Thief 1-3 and starts ripping the good ideas directly into AC gameplay. The story even closely parallels Thief stories if you look for the right things. Things such as 'association with people who have contracted mysterious and mystical powers' and bloodlines that pull the player from 'average joe' to 'main character in a story as ancient as dust itself', giving the player a feeling of great importance (watch out though, too great and it is completely unbelievable, which takes away from the game itself.).

It is one thing to play 'Superman', where the player knows they are this super-power and expects super-abilities from the get-go. Feelings of tedious button mashing and resentment over the fact that you cannot see through all the fine ladies undergarments resonate with this method.

It is a totally different other thing to start a game as 'Clark Nobody', eventually building and becoming 'A Superman'. Feelings of accomplishment and awe surround this method.


AC Brotherhood is released and many subtle changes lead to an even 'More like Thief' experience. Finally, they had ripped most of the features I had loved in Thief, into a modern day graphics engine. I was as sickened by the rip-offs as I was taken aback by Ubi's ability to create a sizable, open environment that was still very fun to play in, even *after* all the missions, side missions etc had been completed.

So to round out this post I'll list the top 3 things I liked in both.

1)The definition of a true Thief.
The number one thing of all time for me in Thief, was to "Never, ever ever ever" be 'seen' by the guards/watch/bad guys. If I had been detected at *any* point in the game, I hit "Reload last save". Sure, I let guards detect another guards death, but only to lure that guard into another trap where he too met his demise. By game end, I had not once been 'seen', and this was incredibly awesome to me. AC takes this further, allowing you to 'mix and mingle' with the locals. Allowing one to disappear into the anonymous mass of the population is w1n, with Brotherhood allowing you to mix with a group of roaming citizens with ease (auto-walk once disguised). I would love to see similar implementation in Thief 4 .

2) Patience is a virtue. RUNNING FORWARD , HITTING ATTACK !!!! One one one eleven is not.
As people write here, a game that requires patience. We don't mean tedious patience, like having to find hidden objects that are hidden in places I myself would never 'hide' something (money chests, 'hidden' on peoples balconies is not a proper 'hiding' spot AC)... We mean logical patience.

i.e.
In Thief 3 among the first things a player learns is patience vs risk vs reward. Guard patrol routes vs lock-picking times is one clear example.

In AC Brotherhood, there is a mission called "In and Out" where you are tasked with following a chest of money to 'The Banker', then follow The Banker until the time is right to kill him. This banker leads you (unknowingly) to a party and begins to mingle with the attendees. I could just kill him from range and be done with it... but I noticed, during a certain point in his walk, he is joined by a guard. Most would wait until he is no longer with the guard, but I was able to kill this guard and slide into the guards position, right behind The Banker, without notice. <evil grin>

Tin-Foil Hat Fun Fact: Ezio is only 2 letters short of creating Eidos, 1 if you count Z as an S, as that is phonically how it is pronounced.

3. Cause and Effect Chains
Any player wants to see and feel the impact they have in their environment, but they don't always want to be linked directly to the cause and effect of a given event (Especially thieves, right?).
Thief Example:
- Player oils the top and bottom of a stair casing that a guard is currently patrolling.
- Player lights bottom-of-stairs oil on fire.
- Guard patrolling makes it to top of stair area, sees the fire, runs to fire, slips and falls into the fire, bashing his head on the stairs while screaming bloody hell.
- The oil on the stairs and fire at the bottom is indeed my fault, but I did not directly kill the guard.
- Guard 2 hears this and comes running
- He too slips to his bloody demise (Initial cause was guard 1 screaming , Resulting effect, guard 2 dies).

Cause/Effect Chain here would be:
Player acts: Oil on stairs, fire at bottom. ->
Guard detects interesting event, rushes to scene ->
Oil on stairs causes guard to fall into interesting event area, which happens to be a fire ->
Scream from guard dying causes guard 2 to rush to scene ->
Oil on stairs causes guard 2's similar demise.

AC Example: (of which, there are many more than the Thief series currently holds)
I call this one "Blood Money" (AKA Pike Fishing) and it was created out of pure amusement, but later used as a tactic.

2 poison darts..................................350 florin.
10x florin 20 times............................200 florin.
4 dead guards and 20 dead civilians...priceless.

- Guards 1-4 standing in huddle. 2 of 4 have pikes.
- Player reaches tactical position above guards where he cannot be detected directly.
- Player starts throwing money in the middle of guard group.
- Civilians rush in "Money!" "Gold" "I had a dream about this" and other hilarious quotes... hilarious, because of what is about to happen.
- The guards attention is drawn to the crowd which has amassed around them.
- Player shoots a poison dart into each pikesmen. The other guards are still oblivious that anything is afoul.
- Player immediately switches back to throwing money in the middle of the crowd.
- Pikesmen start thrashing their pikes wildly in circles.
- The other guards try to move away from the pikes, but are surrounded by the hoard of civilians which cant decide if they are going to run away from the pikes of death, or directly into them.
- Money has a way to make people do crazy things in attempts to obtain it. Civilians who choose to get rich, get piked instead.
- By the end of this fiasco, some 20 civilians and all 4 guards are dead, leaving the player with 24 lootable corpses that contain much more value than the cost of the act itself.


Summary:
1) A mission system that provides the player with innumerable methods to accomplish the tasks at hand.
2) A world that punishes OMG!!!111!1ONEONE!!ELEVEN players and rewards those willing to wait or act with thought, rather than speed.
3) A persistent world that provides play well past it's own 'mission' system.


There are many other things to mention but all previous posts pretty much cover the core of what we the people are after.

- Zhoul

p.s. This post is TL so even I DR . I apologize now for any fragmented sentences or misspelled words.

[GepardenK]

Some of my favorite things about thief:

1: Extremely focused game design. Every mission is an open challenge; its just you, your tools and the guards. No gimmicky features, RPG elements or interrupting dialogue/cinematic moments. Yet every mission feels completely different (especially in TDP) because of the emergent gameplay and how different obstacles affect the player. Some levels even feel like completely different genres (stealth game, horror game, exploration adventure) but all fit perfectly within Thief and never change the core gameplay.

2: Perfect storytelling that fits a game. The mission briefings and cutscenes are well done and not too long. Every mission is oozing with atmosphere and each help tell the story in an open ended player-driven way. Its a real thrill to figure out whats going on the first time you play, and its equally thrilling to find and experience more nuances to the story the second time you play.

3: Garret and the player always have the same goals. The atmosphere encourages stealth and make you feel like a thief. Finding loot is more enjoyable than collecting coins in Mario and the player really share Garrets joy for every gold goblet stolen. In Thief you are Garret, unlike DX:HR where the player is him/herself and merely watch Adam in the cutscenes.

4: Thief is neither a shooter nor a sneaker (like splinter "wait for the guard to patrol correctly" cell). Thief is an adventure game that gives you a set of tools and expects you to find your own solution to the current challenge. Actually, forget adventure game, Thief is a taffer simulator!

[keeperr]

3. Cause and Effect Chains
Any player wants to see and feel the impact they have in their environment, but they don't always want to be linked directly to the cause and effect of a given event (Especially thieves, right?).
Thief Example:
- Player oils the top and bottom of a stair casing that a guard is currently patrolling.
- Player lights bottom-of-stairs oil on fire.
- Guard patrolling makes it to top of stair area, sees the fire, runs to fire, slips and falls into the fire, bashing his head on the stairs while screaming bloody hell.
- The oil on the stairs and fire at the bottom is indeed my fault, but I did not directly kill the guard.
- Guard 2 hears this and comes running
- He too slips to his bloody demise (Initial cause was guard 1 screaming , Resulting effect, guard 2 dies).

This is so a hitman (AS SEEN IN HITMAN GAMES) situation. To me this sounds like a way around murder. As a thief fan, this is not good. Regardless of how they died, you set that up from the start. If anything the second guard that came and 'killed himself' would more more an accident than the first as you didn't anticipate him coming.
None the less, if it would be an objective to kill said guard, without assassinating said guard these 'accidents' would be the way to do it!
Im thinking of the pagen level in TDS where we pushed the big wooden thing on their heads and they all got crushed.
I care not for pagans.

[SonataFanatica]

One of the things I like about Thief is, that even if you have a normal burglary mission, the places always have this eerie atmosphere, like something supernatural could occur any moment. It feels like the whole city is encased by a mist of the mysterious and magical, even during the normal every day life... at least at night.

Awesome description, Psychomorph! :thumb:
I'm glad that somebody feels the same way about The City as I do.

The whole Thief universe is totally unique. There's nothing even slightly comparable out there! Most people say "yeah, it's some medieval dark age with steampunk elements" - but it's SO MUCH MORE than that!! It's a universe you could write a whole cycle of novels, pen & paper roleplaying systems and lots of other stuff about!

Another thing that always strikes me with awe is the fact that everything's connected in a way! Even the myths about the Precursor civilization – something very few people actually remember – are connected to The City as it is in Garrett's day.

I simply can't wait to see how the Thief universe will further unfold with Thief IV!

[cGREGgo]

I like Thief because the logo looks cool. The gameplay is secondary..

Ha! That poor logo gets sooo much static from everyone! Someone needs to start a logo bashing thread? :scratch:

Meanwhile, the drunk security was always fun to listen to! I don't remember which one it was (maybe all of them), but I remember a drunk guard stumbling by a door he was supposed to be guarding. If my memory serves me correct, I shot a noise arrow off to the side & made him go run & look while I ran thru the door. He's singing something (or trying to anyway) with the hiccups & another security comes & yells at him.

I can only imagine what goofy things they'll be doing in T4. With the advancements in gaming technology today they'll be doing some pretty outrageous things!

:)

[Woldan]

*Steps out of the shadows*

Like others said I could fill a book the size of three bibles with the things I like in Thief, I'll try to shrink it down to a few important points:

* Gameplay revolves around avoiding fights, using your wits and planning ahead
* The unique medieval-steampunkish-pagan + undead setting without getting over the top and going full fantasy. (I mean, how hard is it to put all these things in one franchise without screwing up the gameplay and atmosphere?)
* Sound in general, Garretts voice, the music, the ambient sounds - I don't know any other game that even remotely pleases my ears like a Thief game.
* The gadgets, moss arrow, noise maker arrow, flash bomb, special tools for special tasks.
* The story and how it slowly unfolds creating immense tension, the story has been great in all three games.

[Davehall380]

I personally like the chest high walls and bullet time, real adds to the sense of excitement!

[larix]

RazorFist recapped Thief II really good, and it's nearly everything EM needs to know to make the game good.
http://www.youtube.com/user/xRazorFistx#p/u/23/NuuWxlj0EZM

[Hypevosa]

I personally like the chest high walls and bullet time, real adds to the sense of excitement!

yay! things that get in my way!

Yay! It's so exciting when the action is slower!

[SirTaffaLot]

Anyone else love to grab free arrows from the archer guard!?!?

[keeperr]

Yea, how come he can shoot at me with the make up arrows afterwards?

[SirTaffaLot]

This series keeps me coming back. Maybe when I first get the games, I try and breeze through to finish, but now I go back and play them years later and find it just as entertaining if not more.
I find myself wandering what buildings I could sneak around at night :nut:

[theMackaN]

For me, THEF 4 need to have:
- Huge, complex and nolinear level design. Many ways to get in, many ways to get out etc.
- Old style of art in briefings to missions.
- Old style of cinematics.
- Gameplay, where I need to think and plan things, sometimes improvise and generaly be patience and stay in the shadow.
- No 3th person perspective if I do not want to. For me it was really nicer to look out from corrner from 1st peson perspective. I dont like this 3th one in Deus Ex 3. But still DE:HR is the best game of this year for me! :D And I really really like it very much.
- Dark atmoshpere.
- Cool but not too heroic plot.

PS: Hope my poor english is understandable... or something like that...

[VoidWanderer]

I remember reading a review in one of a PC gaming magazine that encapsules this nicely. There was an excellent quote from a young woman who was watching another person play, I can't remember the exact quote but it went along the lines of thus.

"I like Thief because not about the righting, it's the running and the hiding."

To me, Thief is a cheeky version of 'Hide and go seek', more like 'Hide and go Steal'. It was thrilling to sneak past the city watch and steal the trinkets that are all around.

I have not played the first two Thief games, but I enjoyed the third one. I could go on to mention what features I would like in this game, the search feature for this site searches all forums, and not the one you are currently in.

[jtr7]

........................

[Tryst]

I like it because there are always ways to avoid violence. Ghosting an entire mission means to don't have to interact with any NPC's. It's probably the only game where you can complete a mission without even being seen.

I know Splinter Cell and Hitman can use stealth or disguise but at some point, they have to interact with an enemy. In Thief, you don't have to at all and the only time he really needs to interact is during cut-scenes or dealing with shops to buy gear etc or dealing with a ghost as in the Cradle. The actual part where you break in and steal things can be done without anyone even knowing you are there.

[Sublimer]

I just looooove to steal ! :D
(I happen to have the exact opposite feelings in life though :p)

But I think that this is because of the thief character in QfG :)
(It is been a looooong time since I first robbed that old lady's house hehe)

[Tucrila]

Thief is the most immersive game that i 've ever played. The sound effects of the game is something so carefully done that it puts you right into the Thief universe. Also the AI, at the time the Dark project came out we weren't used to this type of advanced AI in games.
The enemies are really believable of hiding from. Thief is such an unique game and garret is such an original character. In order to succeed in a mission, you would have to be patience, explore and use your brain. It could take you days to get through a mission maybe. That is so different fom the games now a days where you do not have to think and just play a movie script. Peolpe care more about the graphics and forget about the gameplay itself. There are somethings in Thief that i will never forget, like for instance:
The first missions in T1 an T2, the haunted cathedral and all the others supernatural missions, the hammerite undercover and so on...

Thats why i believe it is time for Thief to return to its fans.
Our hopes and dreams are in the hands of the devs right now.

[Agenor86]

i like the story, the world,
and the fact that you dont just go out and kill everyone on sight, like with most games.
i like sneaking around, and searching for loot, climbing, and all that ninja stuff :P

[wjb0078]

Hi, I like theif because he have some idea than others...

[Neuromancer07]

My first comment on the Thief 4 discussion board. People have undoubtedly already stated my own reasons, both here and in years past.


Enormous, non-linear levels that allow for dozens of possible approaches and paths. The 'Life of the Party' mission in Thief II still ranks as one of the greatest examples of level design in any game for reasons that should be clear to anyone.
The art design. I think Thief II is chronically underrated in this respect with many lauding the sound design of Eric Brosius but seldom the stunningly diverse array of influences; Hellenic, Gothic, Baroque, Art Nouveau and Deco, Victorian, Neo-Classical and Surreal. Astounding. The resultant world from these influences, one that is both fantastical and steeped in modernity is also one of the reasons I love the series.
The atmosphere. Like Deus Ex there's an incredibly pervasive feeling of isolation, tension and manipulation. The intangible feeling of clambering up a rope arrow above an intersection of guards and steampunk robots or across a rafter to the dark industrial drone of Eric Brosius's soundscapes is a unique achievement. I also felt that for all the disappointment and failings of Deadly Shadows that some of the missions therein like the Overlook Mansion did a similar superlative atmosphere. You're in a dark world, literally and metaphorically, you do dark things while witnessing dark events.
Rope arrows. It's strange, but this is one of the small things I loved most about the Thief games, the sheer vertical and even lateral freedom (jump from the top of one rope to the bottom of another parallel to the first) afforded to you, in such as simple, explicable and cogent mechanic makes me pine for it in the inclusion of basically every non-linear game.


Saying that, inspite of being one of my favourite games, there's a large amount that should be improved for Thief 4 and undoubtedly will, even by sole virtue of being created on a modern engine. I loved DX: HR and can't wait to see what Eidos-Montreal have done now.

[Alai]

I like Thief because.... hell I don't know I hate them because they steal stuff. Thieves suck!

[7h30n]

First of all, I love true stealth games which we all know are very rare.

But, the thing that seperates Thief from others is the sheer immersion. I have never experienced such tension in any other game. Being able to see through the eyes of the main protagonist and having so much control over movement (leaning forward, left, right, way of walking etc.) is a special experience. Experience that no other game (especially 3rd person camera) can do. Another great factor is the size of levels, you can easily get lost and that feeling of loneliness and desperation is at it's peak not only because of size of levels but because of the sounds which are immaculate!

That is how I feel about Thief although I haven't played Deadly Shadows yet.

[CaptainObvious]

I like the options it gives, there's usually more than one way to do what matters. Also the scariness. While it's only a part of the game, it manages to be creepier than dedicated horror games.