The Clinics

[Donvermicelli]

Alright so I read in a gameplay magazine today that the development team decided to rework the limb clinics in a way that you could exchange currency for praxis points there instead of having to visit the clinic itself in order to perform upgrades. Now naturally I was curious as to what the reason was, I was stunned by the answer that was given:"Players forgot to visit clinics to upgrade their augmentations so we decided to use the praxis point system instead." Now since DeusEx is a game of consequences, something the team itself promotes, why change it for such a simple reason? Wouldn't it simply be another choice the player made? It simply seemed so much more realistic if they player actually went to a clinic in order to change his augmentations instead of just opening a menu anywhere and investing points into a skilltree. What I really want to know now is why? Surely there were more reasons behind the changing of this system?

[vengeancepuppy]

The idea behind praxis points is that Adam is getting used to his augmentations rather than getting specific ones installed as happened in DX1 and IW.

[Donvermicelli]

hmm then the article was unclear about that. You would still have to visit a clinic in order to install new ones then?

[Deltaslayer]

Like they say in some DX:HR videos... this game is apparently for retard people.

[nomotog]

Alright so I read in a gameplay magazine today that the development team decided to rework the limb clinics in a way that you could exchange currency for praxis points there instead of having to visit the clinic itself in order to perform upgrades. Now naturally I was curious as to what the reason was, I was stunned by the answer that was given:"Players forgot to visit clinics to upgrade their augmentations so we decided to use the praxis point system instead." Now since DeusEx is a game of consequences, something the team itself promotes, why change it for such a simple reason? Wouldn't it simply be another choice the player made? It simply seemed so much more realistic if they player actually went to a clinic in order to change his augmentations instead of just opening a menu anywhere and investing points into a skilltree. What I really want to know now is why? Surely there were more reasons behind the changing of this system?

I think it's just that players forgot. They are so set on completing the mission that by the time they think maybe I will need a new augment, it's to late and they cant move back. Doesn't surprise me.

[subtlesnake]

Alright so I read in a gameplay magazine today that the development team decided to rework the limb clinics in a way that you could exchange currency for praxis points there instead of having to visit the clinic itself in order to perform upgrades. Now naturally I was curious as to what the reason was, I was stunned by the answer that was given:"Players forgot to visit clinics to upgrade their augmentations so we decided to use the praxis point system instead." Now since DeusEx is a game of consequences, something the team itself promotes, why change it for such a simple reason? Wouldn't it simply be another choice the player made?
Sure, but you can say that about every choice: the player could theoretically have chosen the 'right' option - even if say, the choices were poorly presented or explained to him - therefore there's nothing wrong with the game; the player simply chose wrong.

At some point though, designers have to take responsibility for what the players are actually doing (rather than what they're supposed to be doing), and if they find that players frequently forget to go out of their way to visit limb clinics between missions, and get 'stuck' with a particular configuration, then that's a problem that needs to be solved.

From a gameplay perspective, it makes sense to give players the most flexibility possible. It's only from a narrative perspective, I think, that limb clinics are important: as a way to add meaning and permanency to the player's choices (each time Adam 'upgrades' himself, he has to modify his body further). In this case, as in many cases, narrative was sacrificed for gameplay.

[ShadowRatchet6]

Pardon me, I haven't actually played DX1, but if I see how it works from your discussions, may I add that it would be a pain to go to a particular place in the middle of a mission just to get upgrades; that would be tiresome. Unless of course, the clinics were scattered all around in the level.

[Deltaslayer]

Pardon me, I haven't actually played DX1, but if I see how it works from your discussions, may I add that it would be a pain to go to a particular place in the middle of a mission just to get upgrades; that would be tiresome. Unless of course, the clinics were scattered all around in the level.

You don't have to augment yourself at the moment you find the aug. canister... the game has a lot of medical bots you can use to upgrade and heal yourself... and it is way more realistic.

[rokstrombo]

Sure, but you can say that about every choice: the player could theoretically have chosen the 'right' option - even if say, the choices were poorly presented or explained to him - therefore there's nothing wrong with the game; the player simply chose wrong.

At some point though, designers have to take responsibility for what the players are actually doing (rather than what they're supposed to be doing), and if they find that players frequently forget to go out of their way to visit limb clinics between missions, and get 'stuck' with a particular configuration, then that's a problem that needs to be solved.

I agree with this, though I think the risk of missing out on Aug canisters in Deus Ex was an important motivator for exploration. Hopefully now that the augmentations and skills have been combined for Human Revolution, a lack of exploration or experimentation may still limit augmentation upgrades in a meaningful way.

From a gameplay perspective, it makes sense to give players the most flexibility possible. It's only from a narrative perspective, I think, that limb clinics are important: as a way to add meaning and permanency to the player's choices (each time Adam 'upgrades' himself, he has to modify his body further). In this case, as in many cases, narrative was sacrificed for gameplay.

I'm quite disappointed that the player's decision to upgrade will probably not affect the narrative, because I think the reward/sacrifice of altering Adam's physical body would be a very interesting dynamic in a narrative related to consequences of transhumanism. I think it could be quite confronting to hear Adam's grunt replaced by a mechanical whir as he lifts crates, or to see the NPC reactions to Adam's permanent adaptations for combat as he extends blades from his new arms. And what would his girlfriend think of making it with black, plastic robot?

[gh0s7]

So, if they're taking away the need of having to visit a clinic to upgrade, and I understand if it's as subtlesnake pointed out, they'll have to compensate with just about everything else in the game so that the player doesn't consciously notice this. :)

[VectorM]

Every single aug that you have in the game, is already installed on Adam. He just learns how to use them, hence, praxis points.

You don't have to augment yourself at the moment you find the aug. canister... the game has a lot of medical bots you can use to upgrade and heal yourself... and it is way more realistic.

Yeah, it was so realistic to have all of these aug canisters that 4 people in the entire country could use. It was also very realistic, that you could only install them trough a robot, that barely looked more advanced than a very expensive coffee maker.

And what is so unrealistic about learning how to use your ****?

[IdiotInAJeep]

The industry has grown up.

[Deltaslayer]

Yeah, it was so realistic to have all of these aug canisters that 4 people in the entire country could use. It was also very realistic, that you could only install them trough a robot, that barely looked more advanced than a very expensive coffee maker.

And what is so unrealistic about learning how to use your ****?

Yeah, because getting 2 bionic arms without manual instructions is also very realistic.:hmm:

[IOOI]

^^ *giggles*

Oh wait... Maybe Pritchard did it on purpose. :D
I think he has some kind of plot. :lol:


Yeah, it was so realistic to have all of these aug canisters that 4 people in the entire country could use. It was also very realistic, that you could only install them trough a robot, that barely looked more advanced than a very expensive coffee maker.

I found that the stolen shipment excuse - and most of all other excuses for the aug canisters to be dispersed aswell the medbots - believable.

[nomotog]

Every single aug that you have in the game, is already installed on Adam. He just learns how to use them, hence, praxis points.



Yeah, it was so realistic to have all of these aug canisters that 4 people in the entire country could use. It was also very realistic, that you could only install them trough a robot, that barely looked more advanced than a very expensive coffee maker.

And what is so unrealistic about learning how to use your ****?

I also wondered why people like the NSF had augments stored in there bases, or why they would be making augments that so few people can use.

When I played, you could just equip the aug when you found it. Again I played the PS2 version. It made sense to me. They are nano bots. I just figured he injected them or rubbed them on his knee or something. They are nano bots they can do anything :P.

Doing that with mech augments makes a lot less sense though. I understand why you would remove the limb clinics, but I think a better option would be to force the player to visit the clinics to advance the plot. Like in DX when you would visit the doctor between missions.