Deus Ex and Rockstar (Motion Scan)

[Balmora]

I wouldn't mind leaving the people from Rockstar make a new Deus Ex with this technology. This truly surpasses anything seen before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQjLGTXa8ao&feature=topvideos

Rockstar has clearly made a new step with this. How sad, they're not even into the RPGs genre, yet they have accomplished this.

[Kodaemon]

I wouldn't mind leaving the people from Rockstar make a new Deus Ex

Get out. Now. Seriously.

[Balmora]

You wouldn't play a mediocre Deus Ex with this technology?

After all, will HR be any better?

[[FGS]Shadowrunner]

I wouldn't mind leaving the people from Rockstar make a new Deus Ex with this technology. This truly surpasses anything seen before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQjLGTXa8ao&feature=topvideos

Rockstar has clearly made a new step with this. How sad, they're not even into the RPGs genre, yet they have accomplished this.

It's a great link, thank you for sharing, however I can't say it surpasses anything at all from my perspective, other than some extra detail in the facial expressions and mouth grimacing a little.

The title even is ringing alarm bells in my head. I smell technical excellence combined with geekery that would come up with a totally unoriginal title like LA Noire. I suspect the game is going to be a pastiche of cliches all the way through and I will fall asleep halfway through, however good the animation. But then you might have guessed already, a lot DX fans play it for other reasons than the wonderful graphics.

[Kodaemon]

You wouldn't play a mediocre Deus Ex with this technology?

No.

After all, will HR be any better?

Yes.

Rockstar is cool for sandbox console games. But don't let it anywhere near DX.

[AlexOfSpades]

Never thought i'd see Kodaemon defending DXHR.

Nice.

Anyways, nice technology!

[H.D.Case]

At least you would know that hookers standing around are for additional hp :rolleyes:

[Esnuk]

For me, DX:HR and L.A. Noire will be the 2 best games of 2011 ever. And since they both are released in spring, I can't imagine the chaos there will be on the shops' shelves.

[lithos]

You wouldn't play a mediocre Deus Ex with this technology?

Thaaat's right. Who cares about the gameplay when you've got Pixar in real time?

Still, it's not as good as Macca says it that video. The polycount's way down, textures are fairly low-res...but 512Mb of RAM's all you'll need.

[mad825]

yay! for more gimmicky features in games. >.>

[lithos]

Oh, and Rockstar had nothing to do with this. Team Bondi was working on this before R* came along. They were originally back by SCEA.

[pcgeek86]

Cool technology ... maybe Deus Ex could leverage it, but there's no way that Rockstar or Team Bondi should get anywhere near Deus Ex HR, unless you want guaranteed failure to live up to the nature of Deus Ex.

[Pinky_Powers]

yay! for more gimmicky features in games. >.>

*ehem (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f310/Pinky_Powers/TrollintheDungeon.jpg)*
You do understand that this sort of technology is required if we are ever going to say goodbye to cutscenes and tell a full and complete story within the gameplay of a title, right?

This motion capture is very impressive. And it's even more impressive since it's a technology that furthers story-telling and characters instead of shooting people with guns.

For those of us who are looking for more than action in our games, it's a solid step forward. :thumb:

[Rindill the Red]

The technology would be great for the conversation battles (but it sounds like EM is doing something similar anyway), but Rockstar would miss the point of Deus Ex entirely... and it would end up being GTA in the future.

[Pinky_Powers]

The technology would be great for the conversation battles (but it sounds like EM is doing something similar anyway), but Rockstar would miss the point of Deus Ex entirely... and it would end up being GTA in the future.

Most likely true.

I've never played any of their games to fruition. Usually, once the open-world aspect runs cold I quit. I did play a good bit of GTA4, though. But the game got unreasonably frustrating, with its poor mechanics and bad level design, and I rage quit for life.

That said, LA. Noire looks like a different beast, and I'm going to give it a try for sure.

[Balmora]

Give me an Invisible War copy with Motion Scan, and I'll leave this rathole (No offence) forever. Don't you understand, this clearly marks a new era.

For me, this is a new start for everything. Nothing will be the same with Motion Scan :cool:

[Maffis]

yay! for more gimmicky features in games. >.>

Since when is better graphical technology gimmicky?

[Zakka]

I think facial animations are very important. I would not call them 'gimmicky'. They make games more immersive.

[Kodaemon]

Gimmicks or no gimmicks, imagine this (http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/777/notmax.jpg) done to JC. Complete with Rockstar claiming JC is their character, of course.

[Zakka]

Oh god no

We haven't heard from that game in a looooong time by the way. I think they are totally redesigning it. I didn't mind the beard, I just hate the bald white t-shirt kaki-pants bruce willis action movie look.

[-=fox=-]

I wouldn't be too surprised if the whole game (Max Payne 3) has considerably changed in the meantime. It was nowhere to be seen for quite some time now.

[Kodaemon]

I actually hope it was stealthily cancelled.

[-=fox=-]

I still harbour some hope for a decent new Max Payne game but I know that it will eventually break my heart.

[Balmora]

I think facial animations are very important. I would not call them 'gimmicky'. They make games more immersive.

Very?? Remember those moments in Fallout 1 & 2, when you chose something to say, and your cd rom started spinning like crazy to load the facial animation of the other person?

This was revolutionary.

Now imagine Fallout 3 with Motion Scan. I just gave you a New game. ;)

[Zakka]

You bring back memories :D

Remember when in fallout 1 you had the option for a "minimum install" which only used a couple of MB (maybe 20) on the hard drive? That was sick.

[VectorM]

I wouldn't mind leaving the people from Rockstar make a new Deus Ex with this technology. This truly surpasses anything seen before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQjLGTXa8ao&feature=topvideos

Rockstar has clearly made a new step with this. How sad, they're not even into the RPGs genre, yet they have accomplished this.

GRAFIX!!!

As if enough budget isn't going to motion capturing already, having them record both motion capture AND facial animations would mean even LESS budget for gameplay. Cool story, sir.

Give me an Invisible War copy with Motion Scan, and I'll leave this rathole (No offence) forever. Don't you understand, this clearly marks a new era.


Yeah, the same way Halo started a new era.

[Pinky_Powers]

I still harbour some hope for a decent new Max Payne game but I know that it will eventually break my heart.

You and me both. I loved the first two games, and I can't help but hope for another good'un. But... the chances are slim indeed. :hmm:

[VectorM]

Max Payne is most likely going to be changed entirely, the same way they did with Splinter Cell Conviction. Remember emo Fisher? Though that one got changed because it was too similar to Assassin's Creed, this one though will be changed because it looked like utter ****.

[Zakka]

How is Fisher with a full grown beard and long hair emo? Or are you talking about a different concept? :) I actually liked that one.

[Zakka]

You and me both. I loved the first two games, and I can't help but hope for another good'un. But... the chances are slim indeed. :hmm:

Yeah and the developers of Max Payne sold their souls to microsoft and delivered an 'ok'' game. Alan Wake is so disapointing if you compare it to their previous work.

Man I love Max Payne 2 so much it really hurts me the franchise probably got ruined forever.

[Pinky_Powers]

Yeah and the developers of Max Payne sold their souls to microsoft and delivered an 'ok'' game. Alan Wake is so disapointing if you compare it to their previous work.

I borrowed Alan Wake for the 360, and only got about an hour in before I just gave up. Boring-ass gameplay, and more than a little frustrating.

A real bloody shame, as it looked like it could've had an interesting story.

[Zakka]

I borrowed Alan Wake for the 360, and only got about an hour in before I just gave up. Boring-ass gameplay, and more than a little frustrating.

A real bloody shame, as it looked like it could've had an interesting story.

Haha I borrowed both a 360 and the game from a friend, it looks good though. PLayed it for 4 hours I think, had enough after that.

[VectorM]

How is Fisher with a full grown beard and long hair emo? Or are you talking about a different concept? :) I actually liked that one.

Well, that's what they called him. Emo Fisher. The same way the yellow tint in Deus Ex HR doesn't look like piss to me, you know :lol:

And Alan Wake seems like the disappointment of the decade to me, even though I didn't play it. 6 years of development, big hype about the graphics on the PC. And then what? No PC version, graphics seem like nothing special, so do the story and gameplay. And it didn't even reach 1000 000 copies sold. That's just sad.

[Zakka]

Well, that's what they called him. Emo Fisher. The same way the yellow tint in Deus Ex HR doesn't look like piss to me, you know :lol:

And Alan Wake seems like the disappointment of the decade to me, even though I didn't play it. 6 years of development, big hype about the graphics on the PC. And then what? No PC version, graphics seem like nothing special, so do the story and gameplay. And it didn't even reach 1000 000 copies sold. That's just sad.

Remember when it was marketed as a "windows vista exclusive" ? Lol.

I do think it's the best exclusive the 360 has to offer in my tastes though, but that isn't saying much.

Pic off 'emo Fisher'
http://ui03.gamespot.com/706/running_2.jpg

Still think he looks badass

[FrankCSIS]

Alan Wake was an utter waste of everything. The storytelling suffered the Bioshock syndrome, being completely morcelled in bits and pieces you need to collect. In between those novel pages to grab, you find your usual run and gunnning, with a cheap twist this time, and a much, much slower pace. What you have is a very slow action-survival game with a shattered story. Even on paper it's a catastrophie.

I realise they meant to build a psychological thriller, but they slapped it on some ill-fitted shooting mechanics, as if they already knew they couldn't possibly retain a gamer's attention span with the rest of their game.

[Zakka]

I thought the shooting mechanics were great, there just wasnt enough variety in it. The fact your flashlight was your crosshair worked really well imo.

Alan Wake was disappointing to me too but it wasn´t a total disaster.

[FrankCSIS]

Well, I'm being slightly dishonnest. Ten years ago I would have happily played it. It would have been interesting, next to a Resident Evil title.

But today it brings absolutely nothing to the table. It's not terrible per say, but it's a waste nonetheless, considering its cycle and budget. Too much talent, time and money went into something so pointless. It feels as though they took the risk of making a different kind of game, but removed all the truly risky elements out of the end product.

[Zakka]

I feel you, they should have just made Max Payne 3.

[AlexOfSpades]

Emo Fisher looks badass [2]

This is emo:

http://files.semais.webnode.pt/200000010-e1904e28c3/emo.jpg

This is Fisher:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__rx8iBhTNv4/Ru2su_sRwjI/AAAAAAAAAYs/DSgZ5MsD9W8/s400/5787620070507_212857_1_big.jpg

If you cant spot the difference, you deserve a punch in the *****

[Dead-Eye]

This technology is amazing and seeing it in a Deus Ex game would be great.

Rockstar remaking Deus Ex, I don't think so. Maybe if they made their own spin-off or inspired cyberpunk game. But Rockstar isn't vary good with the whole play style matters school of game design.

[VectorM]

People take the "Emo Fisher" thing way to seriously.

[Pinky_Powers]

People take the "Emo Fisher" thing way to seriously.

Probably because it doesn't make a lick of sense. :scratch:

[Zakka]

I was actually pissed they dropped that new look.

Developers change the look of characters a lot because of community feedback. Infamous 2 and probably Max Payne 3 as other examples. But those were/are necessary.

I think it's also funny that they are calling the new Dante emo. Yes he is, but he always was...

[-=fox=-]

You think it was necessary to change the look of the Max Payne (and also the locales) we know from Max Payne 2 to what Rockstar proposed with their concept art for part 3?

[Zakka]

You think it was necessary to change the look of the Max Payne (and also the locales) we know from Max Payne 2 to what Rockstar proposed with their concept art for part 3?

No,I think its necessary to change what they showed. I hate the new max payne 3 concept just as much as anybody else :)

They are probably doing that right now, or else the game wouldn't be delayed this much.

Infamous 2 also changed the design of the protagonist Cole a lot (really looked emo) but because of the feedback of the community they changed Cole back to what he looked like in the first Infamous.

[-=fox=-]

Ah, good. I misread that then because I missed the whole Sam Fisher context - my bad.

[Dead-Eye]

One of the developers says something along the lines of "We were never really able to do that[interactive stories] before, because you couldn't tell if people were lying or not." when a game called Deus Ex did interactive stories with characters that stood completely still, had terrible lip sinking and, at points, absolutely horrible voice acting.

Sure Rockstar, let's just pretend that you couldn't do interactive stories because of facial animations.

(I'm using sarcasm to point out the fact that Rockstar is absolutely horrible when it comes to telling interactive stories in video games. I.E. having social RPG options.)

[VectorM]

The new Dante would be "More Emo" I guess.

[II J0SePh X II]

One of the developers says something along the lines of "We were never really able to do that[interactive stories] before, because you couldn't tell if people were lying or not." when a game called Deus Ex did interactive stories with characters that stood completely still, had terrible lip sinking and, at points, absolutely horrible voice acting.



What I understood from the dev, was that you couldn't base a game around the concept of interviewing suspects & witnesses, and trying to find out if they're lying or not. I'm more worried about the replay value - once you know which characters did each crime, can you get enjoyment replaying cases you've already solved? It also looks like troll heaven, "It was Col.Mustard in the library with the candlestick lol."

[lithos]

There's more to interactive narrative in games than being able read a character's facial expression.

[FrankCSIS]

I'm more worried about the replay value - once you know which characters did each crime, can you get enjoyment replaying cases you've already solved?

Have you played Blade Runner?

The Replicant test, in game, was simply wonderful. It's just too bad they did not use it much. Depending on some of your actions and decisions, and depending on the questions you would ask, some characters you would interview would either be Replicants or pass as humans, and you would never really be completely sure.

The idea of course followed through with the book's thematic. But the same logic also applies to detective stories, and the whole concept of justice, especially one which takes place in a non-scientific setting. The game should really play on the fact that you will never be truly sure of your accusations. It should toy with your mind, have no definite answers. It should always be in the back of your mind, that you may be putting an innocent man behind bars, or let a killer go free. Just like in Blade Runner, you couldn't be sure the guy you retired was a Replicant. After getting all the endings, you couldn't be sure you were human either.

This really is the ultimate joy in interractive narrative. Motion capture is a just a feeble toy in comparison.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

I actually hope it was stealthily cancelled.

So do I.

Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne ended on such a logical closure point that any sequel to it would serve not only to insult the fans of the Max Payne franchise, but it would also be a massive disservice to the industry as a whole.

I knew as soon as it was announced that I wouldn't like Max Payne 3 for 3 simple reasons:

1- Remedy, developers of the original Max Payne and Max Payne 2 are not developing it.

2- James McCaffrey, the voice actor that played the role of Max Payne, is not reprising his role in Max Payne 3.

3- Sam Lake, the EXTREMELY talented writer of all of Remedy's games, including Max Payne, is not involved in the production of Max Payne 3.


As far as I'm concerned, Max Payne ended with Max Payne 2. In my own perfect world inside my mind, the Max Payne film never happened and Max Payne 3 will NEVER exist.

[Pinky_Powers]

"It was Col.Mustard in the library with the candlestick lol."

I never could figure out why he and the candlestick needed such privacy... and why the library? :scratch:

[AJacobson]

Someone give Bioware this technology please.

Not because of what they can do with it, but so this (http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:zCdx-zan0A5adM:http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5117/1265581992968.jpg&t=1) never happens again.

[OneUp733]

Can't wait for a Mad Men game.

[Fluffis]

I never could figure out why he and the candlestick needed such privacy... and why the library? :scratch:

Instructional books. Candlesutra.

[-=fox=-]

"Sexual enlightenment for Dummies"

[Fluffis]

"Sexual enlightenment for Dummies"

It works on so many levels. :lol:

[Zakka]

I have to say I would love it if DEHR would have facial animation this good. But LA noire's gameplay doesn't interest me and it isn't even coming out for pc. No interest in that title whatsoever. Also because it's rockstar.

[Muta Ro]

Someone give Bioware this technology please.

Not because of what they can do with it, but so this (http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:zCdx-zan0A5adM:http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5117/1265581992968.jpg&t=1) never happens again.

Ah yes ShepLoos "Happy" face :D. I think Valve have used this kind of tech when it comes to their models and facial animation. I know they did in the L4D games.

[Dead-Eye]

I have to say I would love it if DEHR would have facial animation this good. But LA noire's gameplay doesn't interest me and it isn't even coming out for pc. No interest in that title whatsoever. Also because it's rockstar.

Yeah, that's my feeling too. Even without this technology, I feel Human Retardalution is going to have better gameplay, better options, a more griping story, etc. LA Noria is only selling point seems to be this technology, which although is amazing, games need more then just one fancy gimmick to be great. And with rockstar doing it I feel everything else about the game is going to be same old same old.

[Balmora]

Invisible War + Motion Scan = Goodbye Human Revolution :)
Serious.

[Zakka]

Que?

[Pinky_Powers]

LA Noria is only selling point seems to be this technology,

Are you s**ting me? The fact it's an adventure game that requires you to be a cop and investigate instead of merely shoot at things is it's prime selling point. This tech is nothing more than icing on the cake.

Take a look around at the market today. Games like Grim Fandango don't exist anymore. But now on the horizon we have L.A. Noire and Back to the Future. Both adventure games where you talk to people, investigate and solve puzzles. These are the selling points.

Advancements in gaming tech is just that. Don't let it blind you to the other stuff. Graphics aren't everything.

[Zakka]

Are you s**ting me? The fact it's an adventure game that requires you to be a cop and investigate instead of merely shoot at things is it's prime selling point. This tech is nothing more than icing on the cake.

Take a look around at the market today. Games like Grim Fandango don't exist anymore. But now on the horizon we have L.A. Noire and Back to the Future. Both adventure games where you talk to people, investigate and solve puzzles. These are the selling points.

Advancements in gaming tech is just that. Don't let it blind you to the other stuff. Graphics aren't everything.

But can you choose dialogue in LA noire? And how much will really be 'adventure'?

I'm afraid the dialogue scenes are just cutscenes where there is no interaction at all.

[Pinky_Powers]

But can you choose dialogue in LA noire? And how much will really be 'adventure'?

I'm afraid the dialogue scenes are just cutscenes where there is no interaction at all.

It's much like Human Revolution's social boss fights, where you have a list of strategies you can use at certain junctures in the conversation. And you have to read the faces to decide which direction to take. You must compare what is being said with the evidence you've acquired.

From what Rockstar has shone to the press, it's more adventure than action.

[Zakka]

It's much like Human Revolution's social boss fights, where you have a list of strategies you can use at certain junctures in the conversation. And you have to read the faces to decide which direction to take. You must compare what is being said with the evidence you've acquired.

From what Rockstar has shone to the press, it's more adventure than action.

Is there some actual exploring and searching involved when looking for evidence? Then it might be more interesting then I thought :D

If it is a real advventure game that is... Not like Heavy Rain but more like Indigo Prophecy, Blade Runner, those kind of games. If it will actually be more like that Rockstar will gain a lot of my respect.

Rockstar making a true adventure game, never could have imagined that.

[Balmora]

Rockstar making a true adventure game, never could have imagined that.

Westwood made Blade Runner, so it's quite possible after all.

[ROCK STARTIST]

You can't forget that DEUS EX did help pave the open world games like GTA 3.

[Pinky_Powers]

Is there some actual exploring and searching involved when looking for evidence? Then it might be more interesting then I thought :D

If it is a real advventure game that is... Not like Heavy Rain but more like Indigo Prophecy, Blade Runner, those kind of games. If it will actually be more like that Rockstar will gain a lot of my respect.

Rockstar making a true adventure game, never could have imagined that.

They're being rather tight-lipped about the demo they saw, but it was mentioned that you visited crimesenes and had to look around and discover things.

There is some very promising news about the game. But it's still so very shrouded in secrecy at this point. I'll be keeping an eye out for sure, though.

[Kodaemon]

Westwood made Blade Runner, so it's quite possible after all.

Westwood made adventure and RPG games long before they started making RTS games.

[Zakka]

Ah Westwood, another company that didn't grew up alongside the industry and is now gone because of that.

D:

[Kodaemon]

Westwood actually actively refused to grow up, which in this case meant being absorbed into a generic EA studio.

We all know how the whole story ended :(

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2600/faillb.jpg

[Zakka]

Don't remind of that, please :'(

I actually tried playing that game and... I don't even want to talk about it.

[Dead-Eye]

From what I read so far. LA Noira plays like any Grand Theft Auto game, but all minigames are removed in favor of a dynamic story where the player interviews characters and has the options of Believe, Press, and Accuse. The story then unfolds based on you're ability to read peoples motives and by what evidence you collect at crime sense. When you Accuse someone, you must have evidence to back it up or you risk losing them as a contact altogether.

There are apparently hints that are given based on the difficulty setting. Your partner will find clues for you if you choice to have hints enabled and also a sound will play when your next to a clue.

However I feel my point still stands. This game is basically GTA, re-engineered to included aspects of Adventure games and Social-RPGs. They said in the interview that they couldn't do this before because the technology wasn't there. Implying that the reason for so little choice in Rockstar games is due to some sort of technological hindrance. Yet, there was a game called Deus Ex that came out in 2000, which had a really good social RPG aspect with bad voice acting, bad graphics, and mismatched lip syncing.

So their clam for why they couldn't do social RPGs before is complete BS IMO. It's just that Rockstar ether a.) never pushed their social RPG aspects in games vary far. or B.) Rockstar sucks at making social RPGs.

My guess would be the latter, so I'm not really expecting L.A. Noria to be any better then GTA or RDR, even when they say their pushing the whole Social RPG aspect to its limits in this title.

[-=fox=-]

Hey Dead-Eye, what's with the L.A. Noria / LA Noira? Sorry for the nitpicking but this one drives me crazy.

[Kodaemon]

Same thing as with Human Revaluation, I'd guess.

[MaxxQ1]

Same thing as with Human Revaluation, I'd guess.

Don't know if you or anybody else noticed, but Dead-Eye is now immortalised in Copypasta, and has been for several days.

[Dead-Eye]

I'm gonna start calling it Human Retardation. Because I'm fairly sure this dumbing down of the industry is coming from the Illuminati to make us all more controllable. So all Humans are ascending to a world where their more stupid then they were before. Also because I can't stop calling it Human Revaluation. :mad2:

[II J0SePh X II]

I haven't seen or heard anyone involved with LA Noire call it a social RPG, although some of the gameplay mechanics are similar:

After each line of dialogue from the interviewee, Phelps was left with three different response types: Believe (Coax), Doubt (Force), and Disbelieve (Accuse). June Ballard turned out to be quite a spiky and stubborn customer, so a strong line with her was the best way of getting to the truth. Each character has subtle tells or giveaways in their facial expressions that are signs of lying or deception. Rockstar showed us how there's a perfect path of getting the information you need out of each interviewee - chose the correct responses or questions at the required cues and you'll receive all the information you need; go with the wrong line of questioning and you may need to find a longer way around to the relevant information.

Following the interview, Phelps and Bekowsky were suspicious of June Ballard and tailed her as she left the crime scene. Elements of stealth came into play as Phelps had to follow Ballard into a shop and listen-in to a conversation that she was having with her husband, a mobster by the name of Guy McAfee (who was a real-life LA gang member at the time). Ballard's phone call confirmed Phelps' initial suspicions that she knew a lot more than she was letting on and, from here, the case took on seedier turns with each passing revelation. We won't go into the details of how the case unfolds for the sake of plot spoilers at this early stage but suffice to say that bare-knuckle brawling, a car chase, and a climactic shoot-out add spice to a plot that rivetingly unfolds with each new piece of evidence uncovered and suspect interrogated.



http://www.totalvideogames.com/LA-Noire/preview-15808.html

From what I've heard so far it sounds nothing like a Rockstar game. No mini-games, races, randomly generated events or sandboxing. I'm looking forward to this , but like DX:HR, it's with trepidation rather than anticipation - they might fail. It's a risky business.