What about the girl from TDS?

[Nate]

Okay, the Hand of Mystery PLUS the T4mod 'Thief Girl' pic is starting to convince me that Thief4 is going to have 2 playable protagonists (Garrett and 'Thief Girl')......and yes I totally get that this is still just speculation supported by only a tiny bit of evidence. None of this is confirmed!

So, just for the fun of it, I am going to toss out my thoughts on the subject...and hopefully everyone else will do so as well. Let's be logical and polite here guys!

1. Thief Girl in the pic is wearing High Heel Boots.....which is just plain ridiculous for a thief. Please get rid of the boots! Also, while I don't mind the form hugging outfit, at least make sure it makes sense from a stealth perspective.

2. Thief Girl in the pic is wearing 2 short swords....I think it would be nice if she maybe wore only a dagger. Having her being less capable at combat than Garrett would be reasonable AND would give both characters a different playstyle identity.

-Maybe she could get some other advantage to offset combat...like being able to squeeze into smaller holes, or climb faster, or jump further, or be more agile...something like that.

In fact, this could be a rather elegant way to satisfy almost everyone. Remember all the arguments about 'sword vs dagger' and 'choosing a lighter equipment load in order to gain speed/agility'? Well a Garrett and Thief Girl combo could give us both ways!

3. Thief Girl as a playable character is fine, but I really hope this doesn't mean that Garrett won't be a playable character. Having both playable as part of the story means we get some time to adjust to the new character.......old school fans would HATE not having Garrett as part of the story.

[ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ]

Where is the Hand Of Truth and "t4mod thief girl" pic?

[Nate]

The 2 pics are these:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu83/T4Mod/thiefgirl.jpg

& the Hand of 'MYSTERY' is this

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9607/handro.jpg

[Hypevosa]

All it is is VIKTORIA's personal thief 4 image repository, it includes the thief 4 logo, the image of IVY, some other images of females in various garb, and some of the christmas stuff - there's nothing new in there that hasn't been posted on these forums, and it probably isn't thief 4 specific art at all - it's just where she saves images to post here.

[Nate]

There is a good chance you are totally correct! Like I said, this is all based on some pretty flimsy evidence....but for some reason, the conclusion seems likely to me (just a hunch/gut feeling).

Anyway, the topic is meant to be for the guys to say what they think about the idea AND why....not whether or not the conclusion is correct. That said, conversation goes where it goes..... :P

[Viktoria]

LOL. I know you guys have not even a morsel of information to chew on, so I understand why this thread was made. But I'll just confirm that the 'thiefgirl' image is not official concept art.

This is a fun thread anyway, so no harm in it continuing. :p

[Nate]

Viktoria setting me straight on the 'Thief Girl' pic has greatly reduced my certainty of a female + Garrett protagonist tag team.

Still, that Hand of Mystery pic is still a bit suggestive.......but I don't know if it alone is enough to continue a dedicated thread about a female protagonist as if it is a certain thing....

I will still say that I like the idea!

[Viktoria]

I'm not against the idea of a female protagonist... but also with Garrett, of course. Thief wouldn't be Thief without him.
Playing as two protagonists can definitely work. A recent Thief 2 fan mission proved that for me. :)

As for the purpose of this thread. It is up to you if you would like it to remain open for discussion. If you prefer to abandon it, let me know and I'll close it for you.

:flowers:

[Nate]

Naw, we'll leave it up...I think the Hand of Mystery on its own is still somewhat suggestive that there will be a female protagonist (with Garrett) = this thread could still be useful.

[Viktoria]

I like the way you think... ;)

[ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ]

Pretty sure the Thief 4 fingers logo is a pastiche of Left 4 Dead's cover?

[Harle]

Just because there's a female thief doesn't mean she's playable.

She's probably just a new NPC that drives the plot. Occam's razor and all that.

Nonetheless, if there is a female thief, playable or otherwise, I'd definitely like her to not have more of a mind to fashion than staying alive. Getting kind of sick of the whole 'badass' theme that dribbled down through the gutter from hollywood that says that to be 'cool' every female needs to look like she stepped off the runway. No high heeled boots. Sensible clothing. And for god's sake, don't make her snarky. Let's try not to play into tired archetypes too much, hmm?

[Rimcy]

NO girl thief....at all

I know I will get grief for this but I hate it when movies and games throw in a girl character in order to please the gender gap. The Thief series takes place in mid-evil times when women were oppressed and left without any opinion on day-to-day matters of the house or politics. Leave the chicks out and also get rid of the female guards. It never happened in those days and it should not happen in game.

[Platinumoxicity]

Everyone. Stop. Repeating. What. You'd. Rather. Not. Want. It's the only thing that gives this topic any sort of validity.

[Vae]

I agree...for the love of Sally everyone just stop!...

...we risk damaging Platinum's psyche if we continue!


On a serious note...

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3659/notdssally.jpg


"IF there is a 'Thief Girl', here is what I'd like!"

This statement is just too depressing to elaborate on...:(

[TheWoodsieLord]

I'd like for her to be outside of Garrett's lifetime, alone, a sociopath, and for her to be in an alternate universe where we get to see those areas of The City we've only heard about, she has no destiny, and she doesn't know about the Keepers at all.

:thumb:

If there is a female protagonist that's what she should be like :)

[Nate]

I have to agree with Harle......no high heeled boots and low amounts of snarkiness. I would like to see her having similar sarcastic humor to Garrett's, but maybe make her more friendly/playful...?

Rimcy, having the 2 playable characters can be fun...think of it. You can have 2 different playable characters, each with their own strengths/weaknesses = it will mix things up a bit. Also, you'll have 2 different perspectives on events = more interesting.

Jtr7....are you saying you'd rather have her in her own storyline without Garrett/Keepers at all? That is pretty bold my friend....I really hope that Platinumoxicity doesn't know where you live hehe

[Platinumoxicity]

I really hope that Platinumoxicity doesn't know where you live hehe

The damage is already done. I just pointed it out. I have no problem with anything specific that comes after the creation of a thread to discuss this subject. The problem I have is with the mere fact that too many people are thinking that this is an actual issue in need of discussing. The only thing keeping that delusion alive is the constant resurrection of the topic. And the longer it continues, the more it will be burned into the subconscious of otherwise reasonable people. It has gone on since this forum was opened, and I fear that simply the existence and great numbers of these threads have influenced the way Thief is viewed by the developers of Thief 4, and not in a positive way for the game.

Deep down nobody really would seriously think that the protagonist needs to change. But after some random idea spawned along time ago, it has grown and brainwashed people into thinking that "Well I guess that since it seems inevitable, I guess I could live with a new protagonist in Thief 4". They are thinking it the wrong way around. They should be thinking... Well actually nothing even remotely related to this topic should even come to anyone's mind. I'm not saying that we need to suppress people's opinions. I'm just completely unable to understand how anyone could even come up with the concept of changing the protagonist of Thief in the first place, and how they themselves couldn't immediately see how irrational that thought was. I think the fans here have been "mass-incepted". :)

But I just noticed that this thread is not about the protagonist idea again. But just about a "thief girl". I guess I could come up with an anti-cliché plausible thief character who is also female. I'll come back to that...

[JFSOCC]

"IF there is a 'Thief Girl', here is what I'd like!"



O.J. Simpson could have written that. :p







too crude?

[Nate]

Hehe, naw! Not even 'too soon?'!

Back to the topic now.......The Hand of Mystery means something guys....you think Eidos would put a female hand in a thief(ish) glove with the Thief Logo for nothing? Now, there are a lot of theories as to what that means....

But seriously, everyone just put our 'we must have Garrett' colored glasses to the side for a sec. REASONABLY, the Hand of Mystery can mean 2 things; a female protagonist or a female opponent.

Anybody disagree with this logic?

Now, I personally think it is more likely that we are going to be seeing Sally as a playable character. All the talk about 'Sally' when the forum first started + talk about how Garrett's story was done (also stated by Ion Storm after TDS was done) = I think there is evidence to support my theory.

That said, I also think Garrett will be in the game as a playable character....the devs must have taken notice of just how much we want Garrett = I doubt they'll leave him out of the game.

So this is why I think we'll be seeing a 'tag team' double playable protagonist storyline in this game.

*The fact that 2 playable characters allows us to play 2 different thief styles is something I think is just a bonus....err, by that I mean Garrett could have better concealment and better combat abilities, while Sally could be quicker and quieter (or something like that)!

I've reached this conclusion using logical reasoning....if you guys disagree on my theory, please explain what I missed. Thx!

[ChristheThief]

If the character you play as in Thief is a girl, i'm not buying the game. :rasp:

[Platinumoxicity]

*The fact that 2 playable characters allows us to play 2 different thief styles is something I think is just a bonus....err, by that I mean Garrett could have better concealment and better combat abilities, while Sally could be quicker and quieter (or something like that)!


I would insist on character selection then because I would like to play as Garrett all of the missions. Reason: There's no way EM can justify a secondary protagonist to have the stealth skills rivaling Garrett's. Garrett has done his job most of his life and he learned from the best. EM shouldn't force players to adopt a different playstyle in specific missions. Not only that, but if the different characters have different stealth abilities, it's harder for players to get the hang of things. The reason why Thief is so pleasant to play and easy to learn is that the way your character behaves, and the way the AI behaves is always the same. For example if you play on one character one mission, and for the next mission your character is less stealthy, you can't rely on what you've learned when playing on the other character. You're never sure whether a distance to an AI opponent is sufficient for you to remain unheard or unseen. EM shouldn't sacrifice playability just to get a second character. One type of character to play is less work for the devs and it's more player-friendly. There's no benefit in a second character that behaves differently.

Garrett's story was done (also stated by Ion Storm after TDS was done)

Ion Storm already ruined one game. They're not allowed to ruin everything that comes after that. And it's not Garrett's story that's done. It's the story of the keepers that is finished.

[Nate]

Pretty sure Garrett would be in the game as a playable character, even if there is a secondary playable character.

I agree that the girl shouldn't be as good at stealth as Garrett....she should instead be more agile/faster or something like that.

Personally, I would enjoy having two different types of characters to play as....each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

[Platinumoxicity]

Personally, I would enjoy having two different types of characters to play as....each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Individual strenghts and weaknesses, specific skills perhaps, I agree. But if the stealth system is different for a different character, it's confusing for the player. It makes it seem like player cannot learn how to sneak well in the game because the change of character always alters the way AI behaves. It's like the game keeps changing the rules and it makes the AI seem unpredictable in a bad way. I'm not saying that the AI should be predictable, but the players should be allowed to utilize all the skills they have with confidence. Otherwise it's like playing a game that has a barely functioning stealth system. You're always overly careful because it's really hard for you to determine whether you're sufficiently stealthy or not, and you end up making mistakes and enjoying the game less.

But this creates a problem for Garrett from the character- perspective. If EM suddenly introduces a character that's stealth skills are identical to Garrett's, then Garrett loses his uniqueness and diminishes the importance of him being trained by the absolute masters of hiding. The new character sort of.. "leeches off" Garrett's coolness. Also, if they make Garrett voluntarily co-operate and share valuable loot with someone, that has basically the same effect.

[Vae]

Hehe, naw! Not even 'too soon?'!

Back to the topic now.......The Hand of Mystery means something guys....you think Eidos would put a female hand in a thief(ish) glove with the Thief Logo for nothing? Now, there are a lot of theories as to what that means....

But seriously, everyone just put our 'we must have Garrett' colored glasses to the side for a sec. REASONABLY, the Hand of Mystery can mean 2 things; a female protagonist or a female opponent.

Anybody disagree with this logic?

Yes, I do...the logic is flawed.

Because:

The Hand of Mystery means something guys

Inconclusive...We don't know if it pertains to T4 whatsoever.

you think Eidos would put a female hand in a thief(ish) glove with the Thief Logo for nothing?

A Cluster-assumption...which has produced a collapse in logic.

-We don't know if the hand is female or male.

-We don't know if it is a glove or a shadow.

-We don't know whether it is the T4 logo or just a generic display.

You're treating speculation as if it were knowledge, which it is not, and have created a phantom reality matrix.

Now, I personally think it is more likely that we are going to be seeing Sally as a playable character. All the talk about 'Sally' when the forum first started + talk about how Garrett's story was done (also stated by Ion Storm after TDS was done) = I think there is evidence to support my theory.

Sally is an aberration, a tragic misunderstanding. A phantom Garrett-killer.

That said, I also think Garrett will be in the game as a playable character....the devs must have taken notice of just how much we want Garrett = I doubt they'll leave him out of the game.

Unfortunately, there's a lot more to it than that. Availability, contractual obligations, contractual negotiations, and predetermined character selection/story, all stand in the way of a possible Garrett return.

So this is why I think we'll be seeing a 'tag team' double playable protagonist storyline in this game.

At this point, you should be reconsidering this notion.

The fact that 2 playable characters allows us to play 2 different thief styles is something I think is just a bonus

There is no bonus...only a dilution of bonding with a single superior and beloved character. A character with charm, depth, and history...combined with perpetual mystery.

....err, by that I mean Garrett could have better concealment and better combat abilities, while Sally could be quicker and quieter (or something like that)!

Nothing like that.

As a master thief with exceptional abilities, Sally would not be his equal, neither in stealth nor speed. If she were somehow created like this, by contrast it would undermine Garrett's stature and mystique.

The thought of it makes me shudder.

I've reached this conclusion using logical reasoning.

What do you think now?...;)

...if you guys disagree on my theory, please explain what I missed. Thx!

You're welcome...:)

[Nate]

Yeah Platinumoxicity, I can see how different stealth abilities for 2 different playable characters could be an issue...maybe the 'light gem' might be enough to address that (the player can 'see' how stealthy they are, regardless of which character they are playing as). But I agree with you that it is an issue!

As for you Vae, you are saying that you don't see a female hand in a fingerless glove when you look at the Hand of Mystery? You think that this has nothing to do with Thief 4? So you think they put this poster out in order to promote the very first Thief game...which was released over a decade ago. How does 'see you next year' fit into a release of the first game which was released over a decade ago? .....seriously man?

My reasoning is based on 'REASONABLE' assumptions......from my perspective of course. Others might see things differently....but you are seeing things VERY differently than what I see. Of course, I might be the one who is totally mistaken...but I don't think so.

*Oh, and I don't think Sally should be Garrett's equal in terms of stealth and combat. She should maybe be a bit faster or more agile though (Garrett was never anything special in those regards).....maybe at the price that she can carry less equipment.

[ChristheThief]

Pretty sure Garrett would be in the game as a playable character, even if there is a secondary playable character.

I agree that the girl shouldn't be as good at stealth as Garrett....she should instead be more agile/faster or something like that.

Personally, I would enjoy having two different types of characters to play as....each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Having Garrett still playable even as a secondary while you play as the girl as the main playable character, and as long as Garrett plays a crucial role in the game... that's a good idea.

[Nate]

I would imagine that Garrett will still be the main playable character.....but have zero evidence to support this 'gut feeling'.

[Platinumoxicity]

I would imagine that Garrett will still be the main playable character.....but have zero evidence to support this 'gut feeling'.

Or maybe you could also say that you have zero evidence to support that the girl could be the playable character.

I see that now this topic has finally shifted all the way from "It's possible that the girl could be the new protagonist" to "It's possible that Garrett could be the protagonist" -which is a bit scary in my opinion. Of course it's possible that Garrett is the protagonist. He is the protagonist of the series for taff's sake. Anyone might as well be speculating that "It's entirely possible that Mr 47 is the protagonist of Hitman 5."

Am I the only one who thinks this is strange?

[Vae]

:lol:...'Tis the ghost of Sally at work...her dreaded beguilement lulls the mind into a deep confusion.

[Nate]

Nope, I have the Hand of Mystery to support my argument/theories.

I can't see how Garrett wouldn't be the main protagonist....so we agree on that. But the poster does give some credence to the theory that Garrett might not be the only protagonist....which is all I am really saying here.

[JFSOCC]

ion storm also came up with the story for the end of the keepers, you can't have it both ways.

Anyway, I like what the Cabal Fan missions did with the keepers (though not with Garett) And I think there could definitely be a story wrapped around what happened to the people of that order after everything fell to ruins. I imagine that even without their precious books, you'd still have a lot of people skilled and trained at subterfuge and stealth. all of a sudden with no purpose.
Even for Garett they were considered stealthy.

[Platinumoxicity]

ion storm also came up with the story for the end of the keepers, you can't have it both ways.

What is "having it both ways" in this context?

[JFSOCC]

You can't dedicatedly follow one piece of canon made by ion storm, and ignore another piece of canon made by ion storm that you don't like by claiming because ion storm made it, (and they sucked and could never be like looking glass and all that) You either accept their canon or you don't. there's no cherry picking pieces. If they got Garett wrong in your eyes, then you can hardly mention how they did the keepers as an example of how Ion storm is way better at narrative than ion storm.

[Platinumoxicity]

When did I ever dismiss something off hand that Ion Storm put in the story?

[JFSOCC]

Here.Ion Storm already ruined one game. They're not allowed to ruin everything that comes after that. And it's not Garrett's story that's done. It's the story of the keepers that is finished.

[Biothief]

I find some of the remarks somewhat sexist; are you playing Garrett cuse he's the main protagoist and a high caliber thief or cuse he's a guy? Rimcy...you are a dumbass. When the hell did Thief become a history lesson. If it were the medieval ages this game was set in, more than half of the techonology used wouldn't be present in this game. Every aspect of the Thief verse is a mixture of Medieval and Victorian (separated by a large span of time), plus genres of Caper, Fantasy, SciFi, Steampunk. Yeah, female guards may not have existed in reality, neither does a mechanical functioning eyeball. Since this game is NOT based in reality, the fans (such as myself) can have female guards and thieves. Idiot!!!

As for the "potential" female thief, just like with Catwoman, have the outfit make sense. People hear me coming with my stilettos, stealth can't not be accomplished with these things.
If there is a female "co-star" to this game, I'd like to see her as something of a competitor; who's got game. Not a villian but not a smartass; she's aware of Garrett's skills. Yes, Garrett is the uber-thief but he's aging...that Hand of Mystery shows a young hand. Thief vs thief, no animosity.

[DarknessFalls]

--

[Vae]

You've Come A Long Way, Baby.

[KittyCatAngel]

You know what I'd like to see? And this is coming from a girl...

I don't want some "OMG, I'm so hot, walking around in my high heel boots and taking out men" kind of female character.

I'd like to see someone who is actually pretty rough around the edges (think Toff from The Last Airbender). Someone who has lived as a street urchin and is streetwise, and someone who you don't see the face of very often (like they do with Garrett).

I don't want there to be a novelty to the fact that this character is female. I want her to be a thief first and foremost, a gender second.

[Hypevosa]

[...] someone who you don't see the face of very often (like they do with Garrett).[...]

Of course gamers won't see her face very often, they'll be busy staring at her massive baubles ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I don't think anyone here wants to see a "OMFG HAWT" kinda female character. I wouldn't mind recognizing that she's feminine, or even that she's attractive - and, assuming she's ever cornered, I'd be sorely disappointed if she didn't use it to her advantage and get to show that she's as devious a lead character as I'd expect a master thief to be when the guy gets a flashbomb in his face and a blackjack to the head he was thinking with.

It's a little risque for thief, but I can't help but entertain the image a she-taffer undoing the laces in the front of her leather corset only for the guy to get a different sort of flash from betwixt her bosoms when she starts to pull the corset apart.

And now the thought of getting blackjacked in the boys is just making me cringe...

I can't help but be reminded of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LPmBScL3k) from sherlock holmes (go to 1:12).

[KittyCatAngel]

I don't think anyone here wants to see a "OMFG HAWT" kinda female character. I wouldn't mind recognizing that she's feminine, or even that she's attractive - and, assuming she's ever cornered, I'd be sorely disappointed if she didn't use it to her advantage and get to show that she's as devious a lead character as I'd expect a master thief to be when the guy gets a flashbomb in his face and a blackjack to the head he was thinking with.

It's a little risque for thief, but I can't help but entertain the image a she-taffer undoing the laces in the front of her leather corset only for the guy to get a different sort of flash from betwixt her bosoms when she starts to pull the corset apart.

And now the thought of getting blackjacked in the boys is just making me cringe...

I can't help but be reminded of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LPmBScL3k) from sherlock holmes (go to 1:12).

And that is exactly what would ruin the Thief series. It has never been about sex. That is what other games are for. A woman's sexuality isn't her only defence.

I'd just like to see a realistic main female character for once. And don't get me wrong, female characters that are made for predominantly female games can be just as frustrating.

The minute you take away from a character by using their sexuality/skin colour/background as a focus, you lose the immersion. That's why Garrett is such an effective character.

[Hypevosa]

And that is exactly what would ruin the Thief series. It has never been about sex. That is what other games are for. A woman's sexuality isn't her only defence.

I'd just like to see a realistic main female character for once. And don't get me wrong, female characters that are made for predominantly female games can be just as frustrating.

The minute you take away from a character by using their sexuality/skin colour/background as a focus, you lose the immersion. That's why Garrett is such an effective character.

I don't see how allowing a female character to exploit those who under estimate her is a bad thing. Sure, if that's ALL she can do is play that role, then you're right, it's become all about her sex, but I'm not in any way meaning to imply that. If sexuality is what the particular assailant is weak to then I see no reason why she shouldn't allow herself to exploit said weakness... unless you want her to be a feminist of the ilk that berate men for holding doors open for them.

What do you mean "realistic"? Like hair and nails aren't always in perfect order? Boobs and butt wouldn't make her topple down a staircase or unable to climb a ladder?

The only unrealistic thing I find in female game characters is their physical nature. I've met women who remind me a whole lot of certain videogame characters you might call "unrealistic" (sometimes it's down right freaky). I find there's alot more diversity amongst women than men when it comes to personalities - and I feel that's one of the reasons you creatures baffle us so effectively. >_<

And you mean to say you lose all your ability to relate to the character if their sexuality/skin color/background ever comes into play during a story or event? That's a bit extreme. Garrett was an effective character for alot of reasons, I don't feel his lack of sexuality had anything to do with it...

[DarknessFalls]

--

[Hypevosa]

That would be gratuitous.

Actually I think anything beyond maybe a single event where her femininity played a role would be gratuitous. Again, my musing was only meant to be a single event, assuming she ever was in the situation - not a theme.

[Hypevosa]

What she lacks in Keeper Training she gains in feminine wiles. Alchemically enhanced eyelashes!
*flutter*

*flutter flutter*

Benny starts drooling, but he doesn't know why, 'cause he only drools when he's drunk and he's actually sober this time!

Don't forget the nail polish that, aside from being stylish, acts as a fast acting sedative in melee combat.

[KittyCatAngel]

I don't see how allowing a female character to exploit those who under estimate her is a bad thing. Sure, if that's ALL she can do is play that role, then you're right, it's become all about her sex, but I'm not in any way meaning to imply that. If sexuality is what the particular assailant is weak to then I see no reason why she shouldn't allow herself to exploit said weakness... unless you want her to be a feminist of the ilk that berate men for holding doors open for them.

What do you mean "realistic"? Like hair and nails aren't always in perfect order? Boobs and butt wouldn't make her topple down a staircase or unable to climb a ladder?

The only unrealistic thing I find in female game characters is their physical nature. I've met women who remind me a whole lot of certain videogame characters you might call "unrealistic" (sometimes it's down right freaky). I find there's alot more diversity amongst women than men when it comes to personalities - and I feel that's one of the reasons you creatures baffle us so effectively. >_<

And you mean to say you lose all your ability to relate to the character if their sexuality/skin color/background ever comes into play during a story or event? That's a bit extreme. Garrett was an effective character for alot of reasons, I don't feel his lack of sexuality had anything to do with it...

Nah, I love it when people hold doors for me (man or woman). I believe it's polite and courteous and I am confident enough in my own abilities to know I can do it without help. (You've got to be a flippin' weak-ass if you can't open a door for yourself).

I mean realistic like her sexuality isn't all there is to her. And the way you described the character in the previous post was actually eluding to the fact that that would be all there is to her.

I get where you're coming from, each to their own.

I wasn't talking about Garrett's sexuality, I just meant the only thing you REALLY knew about him was that he lived on the streets, saw a keeper, trained with them and now he's a Thief. They never go into any former romances he's had, and traumatic experiences (other than the ones you experience in the game) etc. etc. This way, you are able to immerse yourself more effectively.

That's what I believe anyway.

At the end of the day, I expressed what I'd like to see in a female character, and that's all there is to it.

[Hypevosa]

Understandable. While it is entertaining at times to have such a shallow character, it's not usually a good choice for the protagonist - and definitely something I don't want for a Thief protagonist. I don't want the black, black man, the sex girl, the ditzy ditz, the nerdy nerd, the martial artist who only cares about martial arts, the badass badass, etc. Someone whose personality can't be described with only 1 or two adjectives is preferable... though someone who's also consistent enough to not just be called insane is also nice.

*back to JTR7*

Don't forget the stiletto heeled stilettos! :lmao:

[Nate]

OH, Thief Girl can use her stiletto heels instead of a short sword or dagger......instead of doing backstabs, she does back kicks!

[Hypevosa]

And thus was born the "boob"jack... XD

I can see the reviews now...

"Sexiest stealth game ever made..." raves IGN.com

"Feminism has just been set back another decade thanks to this game." - Time magazine

"It's so stealthy, I didn't even notice when it gave me a boner..." - Hustler Magazine

[KittyCatAngel]

Don't forget the stiletto heeled stilettos! :lmao:

With the sounds Garrett makes on those tiled floors... I'm surprised he's not already wearing some.

[Hypevosa]

Character development :D

I would like to think his experience with constantine actually taught him to not let his pride/greed rob him of the natural sense of suspicion that keeps a thief alive... I can't think of any ridiculously bad jobs he pulled after that one...

[Hypevosa]

Blackmail. Even though what he went through was nothing compared to any of the five missions spent getting Con the Eye, it was ridiculous. The Bank and Blackmail, just to find out who hired the Sheriff to kill him, mission locales aside.

Revenge? That's a pretty strong thing for Garrett - we know that from the first two games, and arguably the third as well in some aspects...

That and I'd say trying to find out what was going on with someone who was actively trying to kill me wouldn't be a bad idea since they probably knew I wasn't dead yet... and just might deign to try again.

[Tryst]

If the character you play as in Thief is a girl, i'm not buying the game. :rasp:
Like it or not, sex sells games. If there is a girl, she'll be slim, attractive and scantily dressed to appeal to the males.

Although it would make me laugh if it was a playable equivalent of Black Market Bertha :lol:

[KittyCatAngel]

Like it or not, sex sells games. If there is a girl, she'll be slim, attractive and scantily dressed to appeal to the males.

Although it would make me laugh if it was a playable equivalent of Black Market Bertha :lol:

Although there is some truth in that, the times are changing. When the gaming industry started, there were very few female players (I started with Mario Bros at the age of 4).

The stats just aren't the same any more, and although the scantily clad female still works for some games, I just don't see Thief as being one of them. It's just never been a focus in the game. Even Victoria, although nude because she was a nymph-like creature, had moments of being quite grotesque. And as a female, I never felt like she was treated as an object.

But as I said, that's just how I see it. I feel it would be a hindrance to the game, rather than a help. At the end of the day there are people who are going to disagree with that, and that's fine. At least I can express my opinion regardless.

To those guys who'd like a very sexy female lead, would you enjoy the game any less if she weren't?

[Hypevosa]

I'd say she can be sexy - I'd say there's a very noticeable line to cross though in the areas of body figure and design.

We don't want someone who's shaped or clothed like Matsumoto (http://media.photobucket.com/image/matsumoto+/Gistroman_2009/matsumoto3fk6fjta9-2.jpg). It would just be entirely distracting, and no one could take her seriously because it would be a gratuitous case of "fan service".

It's been said before but Zoey (http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs40/i/2009/026/d/c/Zoey___Left_4_Dead_by_loko3d.jpg) from left 4 dead is a perfect example of a good goal to aim for. You have someone who actually is attractive and shapely, but she's not so "OMFG HAWTNESS" that it's something that would distract from playing the game or her personality. Her clothes are acceptable for what she needs them for, and that's also important. It is a matter of opinion, but I would call Zoey "sexy", but she's not a hooker/stripper/tits with legs kinda sexy.

[Nate]

Well, if the game were 1rst person, I wouldn't really care either way.

[dsung]

I'd like to play a female taffer with a convincing personality and intressting background story, if there is no chance for Garretts return.

I my opinion it's a bad decision to replace the main character the game was focusing on. And I am not talking about the protagonists gender. Can you imagine to replace Duke in Duke Nukem or Lara in Tomb Rider? Well, i cannot. That's just wrong.

[Hypevosa]

Well, if the game were 1rst person, I wouldn't really care either way.

Unless she's so well endowed you still see it in first person, especially when she runs. It could have the HUD on it... XD

[Nate]

Hahahaha!

[KittyCatAngel]

Zoey from left 4 dead is a perfect example of a good goal to aim for. You have someone who actually is attractive and shapely, but she's not so "OMFG HAWTNESS" that it's something that would distract from playing the game or her personality. Her clothes are acceptable for what she needs them for, and that's also important. It is a matter of opinion, but I would call Zoey "sexy", but she's not a hooker/stripper/tits with legs kinda sexy.

Bingo! I've got nothing against a good-looking character, but if they treat her the way they do Garrett, you're not going to see her that often anyway.

And yes, I know Garrett had eyes on Basso's sister etc etc. He has got sexuality to him, however, that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about when a woman's sexuality becomes all there is to her. It happens more often than you think.

A comment like, "I have my eyes on that rugged barman" is fine. That has to do with what she finds attractive, and not the fact that her boobs are hanging out. And a comment like that can actually open a bit more up to what kind of character she is in terms of taste.

[Platinumoxicity]

Yeah, all of this thief-girl talk is just attempts at finding ways to not have Garrett, and not reasonable responses to Garrett's obvious absence. Garrett isn't absent.

[xAcerbusx]

Unless she's so well endowed you still see it in first person, especially when she runs. It could have the HUD on it... XD

Wasn't there a PC game from the '90s where you played as a woman so well-endowed that her life-meter was actually a little heart tattoo on the side of her boob? :nut:

Ridiculous.

[Hypevosa]

Wasn't there a PC game from the '90s where you played as a woman so well-endowed that her life-meter was actually a little heart tattoo on the side of her boob? :nut:

Ridiculous.

I have no idea...

To the internet!

[KittyCatAngel]

What? I'm totally against a female character becoming a sex object. I full know it happens all too often. Oy! Garrett was fleshed out more than people give the devs credit, so I had to respond to that specifically, especially in the context of that myth getting used as justification for accepting dropping Garrett.

Lol! I wasn't getting at you specifically, it's just that your post brought it to my attention :)

That reaction was worth it, though :D

[Caranfin]

Wasn't there a PC game from the '90s where you played as a woman so well-endowed that her life-meter was actually a little heart tattoo on the side of her boob? :nut:

Ridiculous.
Jurassic Park: Trespasser. As well as the ridiculous health-meter, the game features an astonishing amount of hilarious bugs and glitches.

There's a Let's Play (http://lparchive.org/Jurassic-Park-Trespasser/#results).

[Platinumoxicity]

Jurassic Park: Trespasser. As well as the ridiculous health-meter, the game features an astonishing amount of hilarious bugs and glitches.

Yeah, that game looked awesome at the time, but it was terrible. :D

[maikaal]

Yeah, that game looked awesome at the time, but it was terrible. :D

Not to mention the moobs the were meant to be |3oobs as I learned later.

[Chilliwack]

I'll just leave this story idea here...

What happened to the girl that Garrett found in the ending cinematic of TDS?

Will she be making a return to the story, perhaps as Garrett's protege, or a new addition to the keepers, with Garrett as her occasional mentor?

Perhaps unlike the other keepers, Garrett specifically teaches her to embrace independent thought, and question authority, while somehow preserving the balance, like he has done so many times.

Maybe she currently lives with Garrett in the clock tower, where she trains and hones her skills under his watch... in a similar fashion to how Batman trained Robin.

Now obviously we don't expect her to be a playable character(except perhaps in multiplayer or fan missions) but perhaps she could be important to the story, often sent on complimentary missions. "Go to the ruins of Soulforge Cathedral, and wait for my signal," that sort of thing. Easy missions that need to be done, while Garrett deals with the more difficult things.

She could also be a good narrative device through which Garrett expresses his inner thoughts. After all, we often learn much through teaching others. She could offer some unique insight to the situations, like Watson does for Sherlock Holmes.

Just my two coppers. There's just too much potential in this character for her to be wasted.

[Hamadriyad]

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv107/Hamadriyad/egb_cast_eduardo_zpsc872c856.jpg

[Nephthys]

Garrett is too selfish, and too smart to want to teach someone to be a keeper when he didn't even like it. It all depends on how they want to connect Garrett to the world and the city. He always had friends and enemies before who you assumed he knew for a while, so maybe she'll make an appearance, maybe not.I wouldn't be devastated if she didn't.

[Chilliwack]

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv107/Hamadriyad/egb_cast_eduardo_zpsc872c856.jpg

AGHH....

You SON OF A...

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/thumb/6/6b/That_really_rustled_my_jimmies.jpg/618px-That_really_rustled_my_jimmies.jpg



But seriously, anybody have any theories about her?

[Hamadriyad]

Hehhehe... :D
Ok, seriously, I don't think Garrett became her mentor or something. After that scene in TDS, I doubt they saw each other again.
Probably she joined Thieves' Guild and become a very talented thief. There may be a mission that we encounter a talented thief, even for a moment maybe, just a reference.
Or we can read her diary, mentioned that night, getting caught by a weird man with a key tattoo, and strange eye. (guess who?)

[Platinumoxicity]

There's just too much potential in this character for her to be wasted.

Basso was a character in two ingame missions. This girl was for a moment in a 30-second clip inserted in the ending cinematic. So by your logic, Basso has at least twice "the potential" that would be wasted. She is exactly as irrelevant as the man in TDPM05 briefing to whom Garrett sells the Horn of Quintus. She's exactly as irrelevant as as the pagan informant who commissioned Garrett for the Shoalsgate job. She is ten times less relevant than Dyan and Larkspur, the leaders of Viktoria's pagan order, two of the few recurring characters from earlier games who still aren't confirmed dead.

Just because she was in the last scene where we saw Garrett doesn't mean she's supposed to be in the first scene we see him next. Garrett might as well have dragged the sleeping homeless man in TDP's outro cinematic with him in the Rumford manor in the beginning of T2. He was in the cutscene. He must be important, right?

[The Deuce]

Based on what we've seen from the new Thief so far, my educated guess is that her status is "gone and forgotten." Garrett's past will only be referred to in broad strokes, and she simply won't ever be brought up.

[Nightwynd]

If Garrett would take an apprentice, it might just go to show that he had learned nothing. It would be repeating all from the beginning, like this thread does on this (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=88489&highlight=protagonist) very subject.
A little like along the lines of

"Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it."

By not taking an apprentice, Garrett ensures breaking the "vicious" circle. I have absolutely no problem in having her "gone and forgotten". Good riddance, I say!

[HolyTemplar]

You find her on the street dying of the plague.

Garrett can't do anything to save her and cries manly tears when she runs up to him crying her small tiny green eyes out asking him for a cure.

Later you find out that she was put into a meat pie by the Butcher of Week Street.

Don't shoot the messenger! I'm just revealing what I discovered in the leaked Edios Thief docs!

[fbdbh]

I think she could be there... as an informant or mole or something.

[Chilliwack]

I think she could be there... as an informant or mole or something.

In Garrett's line of work, you can never have too much information. Who knows, maybe she even FINDS missions for Garrett by listening to rumors. She's just a child, why should anyone worry about her overhearing anything?

She may even have some sort of connection with the local street urchins.

As for her being "unimportant" as Basso... I don't really think so. The fact that she was featured in the last known cinematic, that Garrett's little speech to her acts as a bookend for the series so far... It just seems to deeply imply that she will be a significan character in his life. She has talent. It's no easy thing to see a keeper. and I think even Garrett wouldn't want talent like hers to go to waste.

[Master Taffer]

I think she was just there to symbolize the cyclical nature of Garrett's journey and his acceptence that he was an important figure in the City's events through the first three games and is not necessarily intended to or going to be a defined character.

[Chilliwack]

I think she was just there to symbolize the cyclical nature of Garrett's journey and his acceptence that he was an important figure in the City's events through the first three games and is not necessarily intended to or going to be a defined character.

Even so, there should be a nod to continuity in Thief 4 regarding her, like perhaps a quick comment during a mission. Like, say Garrett finds a journal that mentions her. "Looks like the keepers have been training her well. I might have some healthy competition down the road!"

[Master Taffer]

Even so, there should be a nod to continuity in Thief 4 regarding her, like perhaps a quick comment during a mission. Like, say Garrett finds a journal that mentions her. "Looks like the keepers have been training her well. I might have some healthy competition down the road!"

If he dropped her off at the remnents of the Keepers then he learned absolutely nothing from the events of Deadly Shadows.

And for that matter, why is it necessary to reference her? It was a symbolic moment, not a major or even minor plot point.

[Chilliwack]

If he dropped her off at the remnents of the Keepers then he learned absolutely nothing from the events of Deadly Shadows.

And for that matter, why is it necessary to reference her? It was a symbolic moment, not a major or even minor plot point.

If it happened literally in the last few SECONDS on the franchise, I think it could be considered pretty darn significant. That's like saying "The ending of a movie isn't important."

[Master Taffer]

If it happened literally in the last few SECONDS on the franchise, I think it could be considered pretty darn significant. That's like saying "The ending of a movie isn't important."

It is significant in that it reveals that Garrett is the One True Keeper by showing the key on his hand and revealing that Garrett understands the irony of his journey. The girl is simply the device that allows said event to happen.

I have no idea why everyone is focusing on the girl and not the theme of the ending. Focusing on the girl IS saying the ending isn't important.

[The Deuce]

Actually, I think it was pretty clearly implied at the end of TDS that Garrett was going to take the girl on as a pupil. Otherwise, why on earth would he have revealed that he was a Keeper, and tell her she had talent and everything as Artemus had done, if he was just going to go on his way and leave her to continue starving? If Ion Storm had made another sequel, she probably would've featured prominently.

However, from the looks of things, Eidos is writing Garrett as being pretty much the same guy he was throughout the original trilogy, and I don't see how Garrett-as-Keeper-mentor can be squared with Garrett-as-self-serving-loner. I expect she'll just sort of be out of sight, out of mind, sort of like the James Bond love interest from the previous movie always is, without any mention of her or explanation of what happened to her. Those of who played TDS will just be left to assume that it must've fallen through for some reason or other.

[Master Taffer]

Actually, I think it was pretty clearly implied at the end of TDS that Garrett was going to take the girl on as a pupil. Otherwise, why on earth would he have revealed that he was a Keeper, and tell her she had talent and everything as Artemus had done, if he was just going to go on his way and leave her to continue starving? If Ion Storm had made another sequel, she probably would've featured prominently.

However, from the looks of things, Eidos is writing Garrett as being pretty much the same guy he was throughout the original trilogy, and I don't see how Garrett-as-Keeper-mentor can be squared with Garrett-as-self-serving-loner. I expect she'll just sort of be out of sight, out of mind, sort of like the James Bond love interest from the previous movie always is, without any mention of her or explanation of what happened to her. Those of who played TDS will just be left to assume that it must've fallen through for some reason or other.

It reveals Garrett as the One True Keeper because of who he is. Garrett, inherently, is the most objective person in the City. Keeper lore warns against embracing a cause because the subjectivity that comes with it can be disastrous. Garrett has no interest in embracing a cause or being involved in events, and this makes him one of (if not the most) balanced individuals in the City.

The Keepers fell into this trap. They believed that the City required them to remain balanced between order and chaos. They sought to fight fate directly, and as a result embraced a cause. Their very existence arrogantly violates the same tenants that they claim to embody.

By taking this girl in and training her to be a Keeper, this invalidates the entire theme and lesson of Thief; Deadly Shadows. I doubt he just tosses her out on the street; he probably either dropped her off at a City orphanage or gave her a hefty bag of gold as a gesture of respect for her abilities. But the idea of him taking her in just does not gel with the themes nor character surrounding Garrett and flies contradictory to the ending revelations of the first trilogy.

[Platinumoxicity]

It reveals Garrett as the One True Keeper because of who he is. Garrett, inherently, is the most objective person in the City. Keeper lore warns against embracing a cause because the subjectivity that comes with it can be disastrous. Garrett has no interest in embracing a cause or being involved in events, and this makes him one of (if not the most) balanced individuals in the City.

The Keepers fell into this trap. They believed that the City required them to remain balanced between order and chaos. They sought to fight fate directly, and as a result embraced a cause. Their very existence arrogantly violates the same tenants that they claim to embody.

By taking this girl in and training her to be a Keeper, this invalidates the entire theme and lesson of Thief; Deadly Shadows. I doubt he just tosses her out on the street; he probably either dropped her off at a City orphanage or gave her a hefty bag of gold as a gesture of respect for her abilities. But the idea of him taking her in just does not gel with the themes nor character surrounding Garrett and flies contradictory to the ending revelations of the first trilogy.

That... is pretty much inarguable.

There are also other aspects, which are not evidence against this ridiculous continuity of an apprentice, but are certainly not supporting it. For example the fact that Garrett meeting Artemus was written, as part of the prophecy for the Dark Project, the Metal Age, the Brethren and Betrayer, and the Failsafe. And when the Failsafe was triggered, nothing was written anymore. Artemus asking Garrett to join and Garrett's acceptance of the proposal were fate, whereas in the end scene of TDS there is a choice.

Also, Garrett has never had the keeper obscurity magic. And even if he did, it wouldn't work when he's walking alone in an empty street. And even if it did, it still wouldn't work because keeper magic doesn't exist anymore! So when Garrett said "It's not an easy thing to *pauses, amused by the irony* see a keeper" -he was lying. It's pretty damn easy to see one who isn't hiding, and even if he was hiding, apparently even incompetent drunk police officers can recognize a keeper's footsteps without even seeing him.

Actually, I think it was pretty clearly implied at the end of TDS that Garrett was going to take the girl on as a pupil.

:rolleyes: Yeah because Garrett likes people so very much, and can't wait to actively try to repeat everything that he has spent all this time trying to avoid. /sarcasm

I suggest seeing a doctor, because you might have some problems with trying to recall more than one thing at a time. You seem to remember the TDS ending, but you don't actually remember anything else in the whole game series. -No, it's actually even more serious. You can't even seem to recall the full cinematic completely. Right before the very last scene, Garrett vocally annouces his negative attitude towards keeper stuff.

[zcapp96]

Garrett is not without compassion and indeed would not have done all that he did over the three games if he was selfish and uncaring. It is perfectly plausible that he took her under his wing for a short time, not as an apprentice but just made sure she was feed, clothed and put a roof over her head. He would have remember how he was at the start of TDP. I can also see that he was tired of he city and had had enough and even quite bitter. He would have left the city for somewhere new and with less memories. It would make sense to use a plot device where as he receives word that she is in danger or has contacted him for help which makes him return.

[Master Taffer]

Garrett is not without compassion and indeed would not have done all that he did over the three games if he was selfish and uncaring.


The Dark Project: He's commisioned to steal the Eye, gets stabbed in the back, gets even.
The Metal Age: He's targeted by the watch, finds out it was Karras' doing, finds out Karras is a genocidal madman, stops him lest he be killed.
Deadly Shadows: Wants to see the Keeper books, gets set up by Gamall for a fall, tries to figure out what happened, stops Gamaal as both payback and to protect his own skin.


Garrett consistently acts out of his own self interest and defense through the whole series, and it's circumstantial that it protects the City. He's not without empathy and compassion, but it's far from his primary motivating character trait.

[contrarian]

All this illogical talk is driving me batty. The ending to TDS is irrelevant and has been stripped of any meaning


See, ION STORM created the ending to TDS, and whatever plans they had for the girl (for future Thief games) ceased to exist when Ion Storm went belly up. Even if some IS developer came forth and said the girl was to be the protagonist for T4, it wouldn't matter one iota. Since EM owns the franchise, they can change the girl's role to whatever they wish--or completely ignore her.

This ain't the business of real estate, boys and girls, where you can put a restrictive covenant on a piece of property you sell. This is video games.

All this talk of who Garrett is and who he is not, is also irrelevant. LGS and IS are long dead, people. It is naive to think that Garrett is a living breathing entity that transcends developers and must retain certain traits that some long dead studios infused in him.

If EM wants to make a ninja Garrett, it would be a welcome change, and perfectly acceptable.

[Chilliwack]

All this illogical talk is driving me batty. The ending to TDS is irrelevant and has been stripped of any meaning


See, ION STORM created the ending to TDS, and whatever plans they had for the girl (for future Thief games) ceased to exist when Ion Storm went belly up. Even if some IS developer came forth and said the girl was to be the protagonist for T4, it wouldn't matter one iota. Since EM owns the franchise, they can change the girl's role to whatever they wish--or completely ignore her.

Welp. You heard him, everyone.

TDS didn't happen.

The Dark Project and The Metal Age didn't happen either.

Garrett never had his eye plucked out, never stopped a genocidal rust-gas catastrophe, and never even spoke to anybody in the cinematics. There were no Pagans, there were no Hammerites, there was no Trickster or Mechanist splinter group, if EM so chooses.

Just didn't happen. So really, why should we show even the tiniest ounce of respect to the developers of the first few games by being faithful to the source material?

I wonder if Uwe Boll is available to do a Thief movie? :scratch:

Edit: If it actually IS a reboot though, the lack of hammers/pagans/girl/Karath-Din would be acceptable, since it's a new story.

Edit 2: Do NOT hire Uwe Boll to make a movie. EVER.

[zhunt]

she couldnt cut it as a thief and shes all grown up and working in that brothel from the screen pics. Who do u think tipped garrett off about the layout and security before he broke in ?

[Chilliwack]

she couldnt cut it as a thief and shes all grown up and working in that brothel from the screen pics. Who do u think tipped garrett off about the layout and security before he broke in ?

....... That would be a hell of a downer...

It's plausible though. If anybody is privy to secret information, it's the brothel workers. (not sure if I can say the h-word here)

[The Deuce]

I suggest seeing a doctor, because you might have some problems with trying to recall more than one thing at a time. You seem to remember the TDS ending, but you don't actually remember anything else in the whole game series. -No, it's actually even more serious. You can't even seem to recall the full cinematic completely. Right before the very last scene, Garrett vocally annouces his negative attitude towards keeper stuff.

Goodness, you've got some anger issues. Our various interpretations (including yours) of TDS's ending aren't Sacred Scripture To Be Protected For All Time Against The Unenlightened Heathen, you know.

I played all three games, and was impressed by how they all led up to and culminated in the ending.

Garrett didn't announce his negative attitude towards "Keeper stuff." He announced that he was tired of glyphs, which was a reasonable attitude to have immediately after surviving Caduca's glyph magic and going to all the danger and trouble of activating the Final Glyph. He obviously hadn't given up on thinking about all Keeper stuff forever, otherwise he wouldn't have identified himself a Keeper later on while talking to the girl.

[Platinumoxicity]

I suggest seeing a doctor, because you might have some problems with trying to recall more than one thing at a time. You seem to remember the TDS ending, but you don't actually remember anything else in the whole game series. -No, it's actually even more serious. You can't even seem to recall the full cinematic completely. Right before the very last scene, Garrett vocally annouces his negative attitude towards keeper stuff.

Goodness, you've got some anger issues. Our various interpretations (including yours) of TDS's ending aren't Sacred Scripture To Be Protected For All Time Against The Unenlightened Heathen, you know.

I played all three games, and was impressed by how they all led up to and culminated in the ending.

Garrett didn't announce his negative attitude towards "Keeper stuff." He announced that he was tired of glyphs, which was a reasonable attitude to have immediately after surviving Caduca's glyph magic and going to all the danger and trouble of activating the Final Glyph. He obviously hadn't given up on thinking about all Keeper stuff forever, otherwise he wouldn't have identified himself a Keeper later on while talking to the girl.

Pretty funny. Now you forgot the previous sentence I said, only correcting what I said about what Garrett said in the middle part of the ending cinematic, not arguing for your "interpretation". By... you know... Presenting any sort of evidence that would make Garrett's character and the rest of the storyline remotely compatible with the continuation that you have simply conjured out of thin air? And you're not "interpreting the ending". You are inventing a continuation for the ending, based on nothing more than your own imagination and the very last scene in the ending, disregarding everything else, even characters that are part of your invention, in order to justify its details. There literally is no reason to think the continuation with "Garrett's apprentice" would make sense. You're just pretending there is, and trying to not think about it because you'd notice it doesn't make sense.

Oh, and forum posts are not capable of conveying emotion accurately. If I want to use a tone, I'll use a smiley. Anger = :mad: It's neutral when no such thing is present.

As Garrett always says... He doesn't like being followed. And I'm sure that the last person he'd want following him would be a little kid. Garrett doesn't... forget it. I'm not even bothering with these explanations anymore. It's all pointless at this stage.

[Hamadriyad]

Garrett would take her as an apprentice, If only she looks like this:
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/212/c/7/arad_thief_girl_by_warajiya-d42bdue.jpg

[The Deuce]

Pretty funny. Now you forgot the previous sentence I said, only correcting what I said about what Garrett said in the middle part of the ending cinematic, not arguing for your "interpretation". By... you know... Presenting any sort of evidence that would make Garrett's character and the rest of the storyline remotely compatible with the continuation that you have simply conjured out of thin air? And you're not "interpreting the ending". You are inventing a continuation for the ending, based on nothing more than your own imagination and the very last scene in the ending, disregarding everything else, even characters that are part of your invention, in order to justify its details. There literally is no reason to think the continuation with "Garrett's apprentice" would make sense. You're just pretending there is, and trying to not think about it because you'd notice it doesn't make sense.

Huh? I'm just noting that Garrett refers to himself as a Keeper in that scene (while the key displays prominently on his hand at the same time to emphasize it) and that he repeats to the girl the same words that Artemus did before taking him on as an apprentice. The straightforward implication, or so it seems to me, is that Garrett now considers himself a Keeper and is doing the same thing for her that Artemus did for him. Yes, it's out of character for him. I simply take that as an indication that his character has developed, just as it was out of character for Ben Wade to help the dad at the end of 3:10 To Yuma, or for Timothy Upham to execute a guy at the end of Saving Private Ryan, or for Riddick to risk his own life for others at the end of Pitch Black, etc. Although it doesn't say so directly, the ending also seems to imply that Garrett returned the Chalice and Paw, which if true is further evidence that this is what the writers were trying to get across.

The fact that it's out of character for him is, in fact, my basis for supposing that they're going to write the girl out of the story in Thief 4. It seems they're going to have Garrett back with his old self-centered, arrogant, loner personality that we all know and love, and I agree that that's not compatible with him taking on an apprentice and being a Keeper.

[The Deuce]

Garrett would take her as an apprentice, If only she looks like this:
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/212/c/7/arad_thief_girl_by_warajiya-d42bdue.jpg

She'd need a lot more shadow than Garrett to hide effectively, and I think she could pretty much forget trying to look around corners. On the other hand, she'd be even better than Garrett at hiding impossibly large amounts of loot on her person.

[Chilliwack]

If I can interrupt the venom in this thread...

Here's the cutscene in question.

SPOILERS.

aW-CEfKNd0c

[Chilliwack]

She'd need a lot more shadow than Garrett to hide effectively, and I think she could pretty much forget trying to look around corners. On the other hand, she'd be even better than Garrett at hiding impossibly large amounts of loot on her person.

I'm pretty sure he was just joking.