Difficulty levels.

[luminar]

What is your ideal difficulty level? Personally my ideal is difficulty level is one which requires planning and caution in order to come out unscathed. But if you just go out and try to get a bunch of headshots you will likely end up in the dirt.

[Deltaslayer]

Realistic.

[AlexOfSpades]

Realistic.

[NKD]

Realistic.

[Bushmonster]

hard
harder
realistic

[luminar]

I was looking for a more detailed description of how difficult it should be.

[jcd3nt0n]

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/2492/realistic.jpg (http://img816.imageshack.us/i/realistic.jpg/)

:nut:

[Bushmonster]

how can you expect that, ive never heard, in any release of pre-release information, information that discussed difficulty that wasnt the general 'the player will be challenged'. Ever.

[Deltaslayer]

I was looking for a more detailed description of how difficult it should be.

Since we don't know yet how good is the AI, it's hard to say.

[luminar]

how can you expect that, ive never heard, in any release of pre-release information, information that discussed difficulty that wasnt the general 'the player will be challenged'. Ever.

I was looking for YOUR opinions on what makes a good difficulty level.

[Bushmonster]

I was looking for YOUR opinions on what makes a good difficulty level.

i guess i just stopped reading your post at 'detailed information'

well its hard to say still, theres a line between challenge and frustration

i'll probably be satisfied regardless no matter how hard or easy the game is, id rather have it hard than a cakewalk.

[Pinky_Powers]

For a game like this, I'll be going for the hardest difficulty setting on offer.

This means realistic AI, not hyper sensitive AI. If you make a noise, they'll come and investigate, not run to the nearest alarm.

If they get a glimpse of you anywhere closer than, say, twelve yards, they'll summon some of their mates and investigate in-force.

Doing a takedown anywhere but from behind will cause them to scream out before they fall, and alert any NPCs within earshot.

Headshots do kill you, and NPCs will try for them. The closer they are, the better the chance of it will be.

NPC bullets do more damage than on lower settings, but yours do not. On all settings NPCs should die under a realistic assortment of wounds.

Higher difficulty should also mean more enemies to overcome. More and harder. This makes both stealth and combat a greater challenge.

[luminar]

For a game like this, I'll be going for the hardest difficulty setting on offer.

This means realistic AI, not hyper sensitive AI. If you make a noise, they'll come and investigate, not run to the nearest alarm.

If they get a glimpse of you anywhere closer than, say, twelve yards, they'll summon some of their mates and investigate in-force.

Doing a takedown anywhere but from behind will cause them to scream out before they fall, and alert any NPCs within earshot.

Headshots do kill you, and NPCs will try for them. The closer they are, the better the chance of it will be.

NPC bullets do more damage than on lower settings, but yours do not. On all settings NPCs should die under a realistic assortment of wounds.

Higher difficulty should also mean more enemies to overcome. More and harder. This makes both stealth and combat a greater challenge.

This sounds perfect!

[AlexOfSpades]

I usually strive for a harder challenge. I only decrease the difficulty when the game starts to get silly (In Oblivion, for example, it took more than 20 arrows on the head to kill an adult human.. thats just absurdely stupid)

[II J0SePh X II]

I don't like difficulty levels that just tweak the damage. I prefer it when the enemy AI is given different routines. I just had to tone down the difficulty on Castlevania: Lord of Shadows from Knight to Warrior. I got to chapter 2 and I just wasn't enjoying the game - the AI is merciless.

[beastosterone]

Hardcore Insane Impossible Hardcore European Extreme Insanecore Mode

The game they wanted to make before projected sales figures forced them to dumb it down for modern audiences

$15 Day 1 DLC

[St. Mellow]

Master Ninja.

http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ninja_gaiden_2_arm.jpg

YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

[pringlepower]

;1508665']Master Ninja.

http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ninja_gaiden_2_arm.jpg

YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Oh god Ninja Gaiden.

[AlexOfSpades]

That guy's blood is pink.

Dude... he really deserves to die then

[Rindill the Red]

Realistic...

[JCpie]

What's wrong with beating up dead bodies and watching boobs shake?

[TrickyVein]

^^ Well, nothing really.

[Rindill the Red]

What's wrong with beating up dead bodies and watching boobs shake?

It's only wrong when you start beating off dead bodies while watching boobs shake.

[TrickyVein]

I'm pretty sure there's something if the terms of use that we shouldn't be talking about necrophilia.

But until then, what's to stop us?!?!

[JCpie]

Don't worry, young children don't know what necrophilia means, as long as nobody posts the definition, we should be fine. Wait what if the kids use the define function on Google? Better not give them any ideas now.

[LeMoN_LiMe]

id like a setting where your forced to kind of jumble through the game the fist time around. You know not play it "perfectly" like it was supposed to be played so your forced to go back and play it again to find out everything about the game. You know a difficulty setting thats challegning.


Realisitc

[JCpie]

id like a setting where your forced to kind of jumble through the game the fist time around. You know not play it "perfectly" like it was supposed to be played so your forced to go back and play it again to find out everything about the game. You know a difficulty setting thats challegning.


Realisitc

This is what I don't understand, you play the game through yet you say 'like it was supposed to be played', assuming it's a game setting then that's one of the ways it was meant to be played.

[motsm]

I'll likely want a difficulty setting that is much harder than what they will be offering, so I'll probably be waiting for mods. Of course I'll be waiting for mods to fix a number of other silly features in the game anyway.

[Blade_hunter]

Yeah with DLCs

Oh BTW -> Hard - Realistic.

[Pinky_Powers]

Don't worry, young children don't know what necrophilia means, as long as nobody posts the definition, we should be fine. Wait what if the kids use the define function on Google? Better not give them any ideas now.

The definition was already there. It was established before the word was dropped.

Rindill the Red painted a scene of futile necrophilia, and then TrickyVein labeled it as such.

There, now that that's clear... I'm going to head out and finger some young living thing.

[TrickyVein]

Old-world, or New-world monkey?

[rhalibus]

I like "Realistic", but the best would be if I could tweak the damage modifier for both the player and NPCs; I like to play one-shot-one-kill style.

In DX2, you could tweak the init files so that a head shot was a sure kill and any NPC could be dropped with one or two shots--and so could you. It really altered your playing style: going in guns blazing was just not an option, but you could really get the drop on more than one guard if you aimed well (and quickly). I hope DX:HR includes a way to tweak both the player and NPC hit points and not just make the NPCs harder to kill.

[Unstoppable]

This is an important topic that should be further discussed. Along with a strong A.I. the game should scale as the player moves throughout a level. If the player is running around the level quickly then the difficulty should scale and provide a worthy challenge worth of the user's time.

Being overpowered is one issue that can arise in a game where the player character has access to many strong abilities. This is evident in Crysis where on the hardest difficulty it was too easy to simply cloak and avoid the enemy.

[Cronstintein]

games.on.net: And can you tailor the difficulty, or is it one size fits all?


Sebastien Bich: It’s one difficulty to rule them all.

games.on.net: Does it dynamically scale?

Sebastien Bich: It scales based on how much experience points you have, and how you level up within the game.

Props to Irate_Iguana for pointing this one out to me.

So far I've been pretty positive about the game thus far. The main points of contention (TP takedowns and regen) while not appealing, haven't completely soured me on the game. But I have to say what I read in this interview was greatly disturbing. I've never seen a good game with dynamic difficulty. And not having a difficulty slider makes me really suspicious about 'accessibility'.

How can it possibly be playable by new people and a reasonable challenge to me? *sigh* Not to mention replayability is hurt because it's very common to increase difficulty on a return to a game you've already finished.

EDIT: Musings on dynamic difficulty: I wouldn't mind if it was dynamic in terms of ACTIONS. IE: Hey this guy's just busting through all our men, lets stack more heavy units on the entrances and secured areas. Or he's sneaking past all our defenses like they're weren't even there, lets put in extra sensors, robots in the vents, etc... That's realistic, cool, and helps players vary their playstyles.
But based off experience points? Kinda gross.

[motsm]

Wow.. no difficulty selection. That is likely the worst news I have heard about this game so far, and I already despised some of the other announcements.

This seals it, 100% not buying this without a thriving mod community.

:Edit: They already said the game will be identical across all platforms, and the difficulty level has to be playable on a controller, and for new players. Anyone using a mouse and keyboard will be able to beat this game in their sleep, and if they are an experienced gamer it just compounds the issue further. Such a horrible decision.

[subtlesnake]

:Edit: They already said the game will be identical across all platforms, and the difficulty level has to be playable on a controller, and for new players. Anyone using a mouse and keyboard will be able to beat this game in their sleep, and if they are an experienced gamer it just compounds the issue further. Such a horrible decision.
They didn't say it would be identical; they said it would be the same *experience*. I'm sure the PC version will be balanced differently. In any case, they also said the difficulty level will scale automatically, based on the players' performance.

[Pinky_Powers]

:Edit: They already said the game will be identical across all platforms, and the difficulty level has to be playable on a controller, and for new players. Anyone using a mouse and keyboard will be able to beat this game in their sleep, and if they are an experienced gamer it just compounds the issue further. Such a horrible decision.

Actually, they specifically said the PC version would be more difficult, to balance the easy nature of the krd/m.

[motsm]

They didn't say it would be identical; they said it would be the same *experience*. I'm sure the PC version will be balanced differently. In any case, they also said the difficulty level will scale automatically, based on the players' performance.They said it scales based on your experience points, which means the difficulty scales in sync with the players progress, in other words, it's Oblivion's absolutely atrocious leveling system. I could forgive them for that if I could at least choose a difficulty from the start however, but with the game having to be balanced for the lowest skilled players to enjoy, it will ruin any fun for those that want a challenge. They can't have it both ways, and they certainly won't block out 95% of their target audience by making it punishingly difficult, so that only leaves one direction.

While I personally hate the cinematic take downs, and health regeneration with a passion, I can understand their personal choice for implementing them. Having a one size fits all difficulty however, is just plain terrible game design on all levels, and they have no excuse to use it other than being down right lazy.

Actually, they specifically said the PC version would be more difficult, to balance the easy nature of the krd/m.Everything else stands regardless.

[Ninjerk]

In addition to smarter A.I. I wouldn't mind seeing ammo drops become more scarce on higher difficulty levels.

[subtlesnake]

They said it scales based on your experience points, which means the difficulty scales in sync with the players progress, in other words, it's Oblivion's absolutely atrocious leveling system. I could forgive them for that if I could at least choose a difficulty from the start however, but with the game having to be balanced for the lowest skilled players to enjoy, it will ruin any fun for those that want a challenge. They can't have it both ways, and they certainly won't block out 95% of their target audience by making it punishingly difficult, so that only leaves one direction.
I guess I didn't take his comments literally because well, I don't see how that could work at all. I mean you don't even have a character level in HR, do you? Everything is down to the player's skill and the augs he chooses to use. There must be a huge amount of variation in ability at every level of XP - just because you have the same augs as another player doesn't mean you're anywhere near as good as them.

[AlexOfSpades]

I'll wait patiently until CoyoteGrey comes to enlighten us with his eternal knowledge.

[Cronstintein]

Well that quote's from an official interview, not much more to say really.
Not sure what you expect coyote to do about it?

If they use oblivion-style (oh you 10,000+ xp? Now it takes FIVE headshots to kill someone) scaling I think I'm going to puke.

[AlexOfSpades]

Well that quote's from an official interview, not much more to say really.
Not sure what you expect coyote to do about it?

If they use oblivion-style (oh you 10,000+ xp? Now it takes FIVE headshots to kill someone) scaling I think I'm going to puke.

I'll.. I'll...

.. Call my friends from the Mythic Dawn, open up a goddamned gate to another dimension and let a huge metal centipede come out of it and destroy Eidos Montreal office.

HELL YEAH!

[Rindill the Red]

Well that quote's from an official interview, not much more to say really.
Not sure what you expect coyote to do about it?

If they use oblivion-style (oh you 10,000+ xp? Now it takes FIVE headshots to kill someone) scaling I think I'm going to puke.

We need more information...

Perhaps the scaling is stuff like AI intelligence, the amount of enemies as a whole, or perhaps the ratio of special enemies (augmented/armored) to regular, while what it takes to take down an enemy is always "realistic".

It's not the end of the world, yet, but I can see it from here.

[Dead-Eye]

Part of me hopes EM thought Realistic is the only way to play this game. So they decided that all combat would be as hard as Halo one on legendary... that would be kinda funny... because it's a bad marketing decision that I would be totally OK with.

But super serial, they aren't going to allow players to choice how hard they want the game to be? Man this game is turning into a noob fest. When this game comes out I'm going to be hearing the noobs all crying "Wow, Human Revolution is really hard" and I'm going to be all like "too hard for you, too painfully easy for me."

[St. Mellow]

^ That's some extreme wishful thinking. I secretly hope you're right, but they're probably gonna go the other way. This game will have easy-as-cake combat for DX "realistic" veterans and hardcore FPS players.

[Dead-Eye]

;1510920']^ That's some extreme wishful thinking. I secretly hope you're right, but they're probably gonna go the other way. This game will have easy-as-cake combat for DX "realistic" veterans and hardcore FPS players.

Well Dugas said something about combat being hard. He said it only takes 4 shots and you're dead. Sounds like Halo on Legendary to me.

It's kinda interesting if this is the case. Because Halo on legendary is still a shooter but it's a whole different animal then Halo on normal. You can't just run out their and expect to survive, you really need to take it slow, utilize cover and shields. So if the player is forced to play on this legendary setting they are more likely to use stealth, hacking and social to bypass obstacles because straight up combat is going to be hard... although not imposable.

Hmmm... my only gripe would be that it's making the same mistake as the first game in that the game was too hard at the start and will leave a lot of players frustrated before they can get into it. However it definitely offers an immerse experience.

Edit: In fact I would go so far as to say that I'm 90% sure this is how the system is implemented. They force the player to be challenged because that way everything feels a lot more meaningful. Also if you're not up to the task of straight up combat they have augmentations to make is easier and and a bunch of different options at you're hand to get around it.

Hmmm... this game could actually be pretty good. Even with COD style FPS junk.

[Kvltism]

I'll wait patiently until CoyoteGrey comes to enlighten us with his eternal knowledge.

That's my position too. I'd like to know more about this before adding it to my list of concerns/potential gripes.

[Dead-Eye]

Yes where is the community manager we must know more about this universal difficulty thing.

Although I would bet money that I'm right. Because if I'm wrong I will seriously, maybe, need to leave. I mean could you imagine this game being as easy as Red Dead Redemption? It's freaking Deus Ex, it's vary name should treble fear in the hearts of gamers who think their big. It should take the Halo Normal crowed and say to them "You are not good enough to play this FPS like an FPS, go back to Halo and don't come back until you beat it on legendary!" (if you want to play it like this) and they should cry like babies at the awesome power of this self help book for noobs.

Also from a development prospective it makes everything interesting because anything the developer makes that is a bypass to combat will be used by people that don't like combat. (I.E. grandmothers) Opening the door to a whole different style of gameplay in the FPS world. (I.E. FPS/RPG)

[puzl]

I've just finished Demon Souls. No game will ever be a challenge again.

[Pinky_Powers]

Yes where is the community manager we must know more about this universal difficulty thing.

*looks at calendar*
*takes another long pull on glass of beer*

[Rindill the Red]

Yes where is the community manager we must know more about this universal difficulty thing.

Although I would bet money that I'm right. Because if I'm wrong I will seriously, maybe, need to leave. I mean could you imagine this game being as easy as Red Dead Redemption? It's freaking Deus Ex, it's vary name should treble fear in the hearts of gamers who think their big. It should take the Halo Normal crowed and say to them "You are not good enough to play this FPS like an FPS, go back to Halo and don't come back until you beat it on legendary!" (if you want to play it like this) and they should cry like babies at the awesome power of this self help book for noobs.

Also from a development prospective it makes everything interesting because anything the developer makes that is a bypass to combat will be used by people that don't like combat. (I.E. grandmothers) Opening the door to a whole different style of gameplay in the FPS world. (I.E. FPS/RPG)

By far the best single player experience of a console pure shooter out there is Halo. In terms of intelligent gameplay, AI, challenge, and polish, it's leaps and bounds ahead of anything else.

What's so interesting about Halo is that legendary is nothing like normal, yet both are fun, balanced games. In normal you can be a total bad-ass and play an extremely aggressive run and gun game which is fun. In legendary you face extremely difficult odds against intelligent enemies that really make you think. Every battle is an accomplishment. On normal you wouldn't think twice about going straight for the Elite to scatter the grunts, but in legendary you'd better avoid tackling the elites until you knock off the easier grunts, or perhaps find an alternate way past this obstacle, for example cloaking up behind the elite to do a take-down, and hit the grunts with a grenade.

So yeah, harder combat makes you think. You have to weigh encounters and think about plans and strategies before you leap into action because if you just leap in, you are likely to die, and you learn that pretty quickly.

If the DX:HR team is taking this approach, then that's an awesome way to get casual "halo normal" or COD-fish players to open up to intelligent gameplay, hopefully broadening their horizons in gaming, and helping to cultivate a gaming culture that expects more from games. Perhaps DX:HR will be a true "thinking man's" game.

[Pinky_Powers]

By far the best single player experience of a console pure shooter out there is Halo: in terms of intelligent gameplay, AI, challenge, and polish; it's leaps and bounds ahead of anything else.

lol. You must learn to use colons and semicolons properly, or not at all. :D

PS. I don't disagree with your sentiments at all. But as a writer-sort, that was hard to digest. :)

[Rindill the Red]

lol. You must learn to use colons and semicolons properly, or not at all. :D

PS. I don't disagree with your sentiments at all. But as a writer-sort, that was hard to digest. :)

Indeed, shall you give me a lesson? It has been awhile since I've taken an English class (I'm studying electrical engineering).

I don't know where my sentences are going as I'm writing them, so when I pause to collect my thoughts I'll often put in a colon or semicolon, whatever I feel like.

Let us analyze it...

By far the best single player experience of a console pure shooter out there is Halo (sentence): in terms of (-- take this out and the following may be finished with a period) intelligent gameplay, AI, challenge, and polish (list of attributes); it's leaps and bounds ahead of anything else (second sentence).

So you see, what I had was a first sentence being formed, which ran into a second sentence, the middle part able to attach itself to either, and my mind didn't make up it's mind.

[Pinky_Powers]

Try this...

By far the best single-player experience of any pure shooter on the console is Halo. In terms of intelligent gameplay, AI, challenge and polish, it's leaps and bounds ahead of anything else.

Or if you desperately want the unnecessary punctuation...

By far the best single-player experience of any pure shooter on the console: Halo; in terms of intelligent gameplay, AI, challenge and polish... it's leaps and bounds ahead of anything else.

But even that is kinda awful. :)

Remember, stream-of-consciousness writing is perfectly good for getting your preliminary thoughts down. But then you can take a moment to rework them into something less jumbled.
Your points and sentiments are immediately strengthened when they're of a solid structure. :thumb:

[puzl]

Remember, stream-of-consciousness writing is perfectly good for getting your preliminary thoughts down. But then you can take a moment to rework them into something less jumbled.


You don't need a period between "down" and "but". A comma will suffice.

Oh wait, we're on an internet forum, discussing a video game. Noone gives a ****.

[JCpie]

You don't need a period between "down" and "but". A comma will suffice.

Oh wait, we're on an internet forum, discussing a video game. Noone gives a ****.

Welcome to the internet, a place where people disregard their education and humanity.

[Rindill the Red]

You don't need a period between "down" and "but". A comma will suffice.

Oh wait, we're on an internet forum, discussing a video game. Noone gives a ****.

That's no one. Noone is not a word.

[puzl]

Oh snap!

[Pinky_Powers]

You don't need a period between "down" and "but". A comma will suffice.

Oh wait, we're on an internet forum, discussing a video game. Noone gives a ****.

True.

I've been working on shortening my sentences. They used to be far too long and heavy.

[Irate Iguana]

If the DX:HR team is taking this approach, then that's an awesome way to get casual "halo normal" or COD-fish players to open up to intelligent gameplay, hopefully broadening their horizons in gaming, and helping to cultivate a gaming culture that expects more from games. Perhaps DX:HR will be a true "thinking man's" game.

Now with all this talk about "accessibility" and "bringing in new players" and "cool moves" do you honestly believe that this type of difficulty will be the norm?

[Ilves]

Honing skills is so twentieth century. Today, we're in the bold age where games play themselves!

[MaxxQ1]

That's no one. Noone is not a word.

Someone better let Peter Noone know.

[Dead-Eye]

I've been working on shortening my sentences. They used to be far too long and heavy.
Some people talk a lot and don't have much to say. Others have a lot to say but don't talk all that much. One of these two types of people is cooler.

Honing skills is so twentieth century. Today, we're in the bold age where games play themselves!
Well assuming trends change every decade Human Revaluation could be the first game to come out next year that doesn't fallow the norm. Again to me it just makes sense that they would set the difficulty high/highest.

Think of it this way. If you're playing Halo and (this isn't in the game but) the game hints to you that you can avoid the next room full of enemies by using a vent to bypass them, would you take that option? Well, if the player is playing on normal do you really think they are going to use the vent? The option feels irrelevant because shooting you're way through is easy and it feels more rewarding. Taking the vent feels like you're missing out on the action and that you're too wussy to go beat up some easy targets. There is no sense of reward to the player for talking the vent.

However you have the same situation except now the game is being played on Legendary. You offer the player the option to take the vent. Would they take it? Well that's up to you, however if you go into the room and shoot you're way through you know it's going to take longer to get past that part and you might die a bunch of times before you actually get it. Taking the vent is faster because you can avoid all that and because of this it now offers a sense of reward because you feel like you found a clever way to give you're self an advantage.

I remember trying to use Halo's terrible stealth system to try and kill as many sleeping grunts as I could before the shooting started when I was playing on legendary. Even though it took more time, it was still a better option then just opening fire because I could thin their numbers and give myself a better chance of survival. This is something I would never try to do on normal because it would just end up being a wast of time.

Edit: Or their going to take the Bioshock approach... well fingers crossed.

[Dead-Eye]

ummm... so is the community manager or someone going to come out and say something about this potentially horrible/great idea? Or is this thread just going to die now?

[mad825]

one can reach to a consensus when none are posting that:
http://www.uploadgeek.com/thumb-04ED_4CBD0D73.jpg

but now you bumped the thread.....

[Cronstintein]

Just another classic case of thread starvation due to lack of info. Once we get more breadcrumbs it'll kick back up in one form or another ;D

[Dead-Eye]

So, I can assume that we all agree on a few things?

That Oblivion's level scaling sucks.
That no difficulty settings sucks.
That because a mandatory difficulty is set, said difficulty should be on par with Halo on legendary/Deus Ex on Realistic?
And that we need more info on this level scaling and universal difficulty thingy from the community manager?

I'm just wondering because our current community manager is pretty good but he hasn't replayed this this thread yet. And, as of right now, my biggest desire is for some information that can be given on this universal difficulty thing.

Isn't it scary how Universal Difficulty and Universal Ammo both start with Universal?

[Cronstintein]

I just really hope they don't chicken out at the last minute and ease up on the "easily killed" thing that they've been touting so far.

[pringlepower]

So, I can assume that we all agree on a few things?

That Oblivion's level scaling sucks.
That no difficulty settings sucks.
That because a mandatory difficulty is set, said difficulty should be on par with Halo on legendary/Deus Ex on Realistic?
And that we need more info on this level scaling and universal difficulty thingy from the community manager?

I'm just wondering because our current community manager is pretty good but he hasn't replayed this this thread yet. And, as of right now, my biggest desire is for some information that can be given on this universal difficulty thing.

Isn't it scary how Universal Difficulty and Universal Ammo both start with Universal?

And Universal Constructor.

GASP. Universal Difficulty will cause Grey Death!

[avenging_teabag]

That because a mandatory difficulty is set, said difficulty should be on par with Halo on legendary/Deus Ex on Realistic?
And that we need more info on this level scaling and universal difficulty thingy from the community manager?

Agreed on the latter.

As for the former, never played HAlo but I have my doubts that they would set the Deus ex realistic as the default and only difficulty level, that would be business suicide. I don't know how they're planning to implement the universal difficulty without making the game easy. I'll wait for more info *clings to hope*.

[Cronstintein]

Well since they have no hitboxes for the player don't expect to die from 1hit headshots. But in terms of 4-6 shots and you die, that's fine with me. As long as they don't make the bad guys bullet sponges like in Halo, that would piss me off.

[Rindill the Red]

Well since they have no hitboxes for the player don't expect to die from 1hit headshots. But in terms of 4-6 shots and you die, that's fine with me. As long as they don't make the bad guys bullet sponges like in Halo, that would piss me off.

No detailed collision detection for the player? That's just lazy... and disappointing.

They have detailed collision detection for the enemies right? Leg-shot might take them down but they'll keep firing? Arm-shot might make them drop their gun? Crotch shot will make them scream like little girl? Head shot = instant kill?

Halo enemies can take a lot of bullets because...
A. They're aliens so we have no idea what their physiology and endurance is.
B. They have high-tek shields and armor.

I just like it when a game makes sense. The game can be fun either with enemies that go down quickly with head shot, or that can take a lot of bullets, so long as it's not unrealistic. Unrealistic central gameplay mechanics are usually an immerison and deal breaker for me; I can't get into the game and so I lose interest.

I stopped playing Fallout 3 until I could find a mod that made head-shots instant kills.

[Rindill the Red]

Agreed on the latter.

As for the former, never played HAlo but I have my doubts that they would set the Deus ex realistic as the default and only difficulty level, that would be business suicide. I don't know how they're planning to implement the universal difficulty without making the game easy. I'll wait for more info *clings to hope*.

It would not be business suicide. Deus Ex is all about options. You can't do the combat? Stealth, hacking, social.

Did Demon Souls commit business suicide when they made that game extremely challenging?

[avenging_teabag]

Well, I was under the impression that difficulty is related not solely to the combat, but to all the other gameplay options too, including hacking and stealth. When you increase difficulty, you increase it for all the "pillars". Doesn't make any sense to make only one aspect challenging, leaving all the others less so.

Never played Demon's souls. Was it the same massive, expensive release as HR? Is there a PC version?

[Dead-Eye]

Well, I was under the impression that difficulty is related not solely to the combat, but to all the other gameplay options too, including hacking and stealth. When you increase difficulty, you increase it for all the "pillars". Doesn't make any sense to make only one aspect challenging, leaving all the others less so.

It makes sense if you want to discourage violent behavior and encourage non violence. Especially when you take into consideration political dynamics around video games and censorship.

[avenging_teabag]

Why would you want to discourage violent behaviour, I thought Deus Ex was about player's choices? Or is it about choices, but some of them are more choicy than the others? That would be lame. When I play DE, I want to do it however I want, without devs prodding me in one particular direction.

[Cronstintein]

No detailed collision detection for the player? That's just lazy... and disappointing.

They have detailed collision detection for the enemies right? Leg-shot might take them down but they'll keep firing? Arm-shot might make them drop their gun? Crotch shot will make them scream like little girl? Head shot = instant kill?


Well I'm making an assumption on that based on the fact that we have regen health. I'm pretty sure that's pretty standard these days in single-player, no? I could be wrong, it's kinda hard to tell sometimes.

I'm sure they'll have hit detection on the enemies.



Well, I was under the impression that difficulty is related not solely to the combat, but to all the other gameplay options too, including hacking and stealth. When you increase difficulty, you increase it for all the "pillars". Doesn't make any sense to make only one aspect challenging, leaving all the others less so.


You may be right but it's somewhat confusing. Scaling difficulty based on your experience point spending seems counter-intuitive. If you put points in combat do you scale up enemies and scale down hacking/dialogue? Just seems a little against the whole point of putting points in things.

I don't really think we have enough information to decide whether this is good or not, no point in freaking out yet.


Never played Demon's souls. Was it the same massive, expensive release as HR? Is there a PC version?


I can't say how expensive the production was since it was a ps3 exclusive (which I don't have) but it was a punishing dark rpg with original online functionality. This is the onlyexclusive that really made me wish I had a ps3.

[MaxxQ1]

From Kyle (Coyotegrey) in the Questions for EM thread:

Originally Posted by pha
Coyotegrey, can you please clarify the difficulty scaling issue?

Absolutely.

This is from Frank Lapikas, game designer on DX:HR.

"We are indeed working on 3 difficulty levels: casual, normal and Deus Ex.

We are conscious that not everybody wants the same things out of their games.

Some play for the challenge, others for the narrative.

We wanted players to be able to enjoy the game, regardless of their proficiency level.

As for why a Deus Ex level, I believe it comes from reading the forums.

Some people were worried that we’d dumb down the game and make it too easy; that combat would prevail and overshadow the stealth aspect because players wouldn’t die with just a few bullets, especially with the introduction of health regen.

Well this level has been tweaked for them. Enjoy."

[Fluffis]

From Kyle (Coyotegrey) in the Questions for EM thread:

Nice. One fear allayed.

[Pinky_Powers]

Well since they have no hitboxes for the player don't expect to die from 1hit headshots.

This is a logical fallacy. You are assuming because the health system does not include limb damage, that there are no hitboxes.
Plenty of games have head-shot deaths atop a very rudimentary health system, like FEAR2 and Halo.

[AlexOfSpades]

Damn, even MDK had headshots.

That game was awesome.1997 and i was already sniping their heads out.

[Dead-Eye]

I like how they call the hardest difficulty Deus Ex. Sort of like "If you want to play the game the right way here you go." Good thing there is no Universal Difficulty else this aspect would have been remembered like Universal Ammo.

[Blade_hunter]

That's frightening to see that people doesn't even know what is an hitbox and even to doesn't know that it exists in almost any game set in real time where you can receive damage from projectiles and things from the environment ...
Since any shooter and games with shooting components have hitboxes, now for location specific damage, that's an other story. There is damage scaling and separate health sections ...

[motsm]

We are indeed working on 3 difficulty levels: casual, normal and Deus Ex.Sebastien Bich needs to be yelled at quite brazenly for saying their was no difficulty selection.

Suppose we won't see any details on the supposed level scaling however, if true anyway.

[Dead-Eye]

Sebastien Bich needs to be yelled at quite brazenly for saying their was no difficulty selection.

Suppose we won't see any details on the supposed level scaling however, if true anyway.

I doubt it. Marketers will say anything to get a few extra dollors regardless of weather it's the truth or not. Lies are unofficially part of the job description.

Sounds like he was trying to get the oblivion crowed interested by way of snake oil salesmanship.

[Pinky_Powers]

Sounds like he was trying to get the oblivion crowed interested.

:lol:

The Oblivion crowd mod'ed out level scaling almost on day one. :cool:

[Rindill the Red]

:lol:

The Oblivion crowd mod'ed out level scaling almost on day one. :cool:

The pc crowd, I feel for those console-junkies who had to play Oblivion vanilla.

[OwlSolar]

Some people talk a lot and don't have much to say. Others have a lot to say but don't talk all that much. One of these two types of people is cooler.
I think it's awesome that you followed this up with a massive wall of text.

Just kidding. It was a pretty good post. :)

I like how they call the hardest difficulty Deus Ex. Sort of like "If you want to play the game the right way here you go." Good thing there is no Universal Difficulty else this aspect would have been remembered like Universal Ammo.
Huh. The way I interpret it, they're making fun of the hardcore gamers who keep complaining that there won't be a challenge...

[Pinky_Powers]

The pc crowd, I feel for those console-junkies who had to play Oblivion vanilla.

Indeed. It makes my heart ache. :hmm:

[Viktoria]

Confirmation/update from Games.On.Net:

http://games.on.net/article/10524/Correction_Deus_Ex_to_Include_3_Difficulty_Levels




Correction: Deus Ex to Include 3 Difficulty Levels

Last week we activated our persuasion implant, before using our cybernetic arms to hold Sebastien Bisch down and question him about the upcoming reboot of Deus Ex. During the course of our chat, we asked if the game used a sliding difficulty setting, or whether it was a one size fits all kind of approach. Turns out that our persuasion implant had short circuited, and was actually emitting mistake rays, as the answer Sebastien gave us was incorrect.

I'm sorry boss, please don't kick me again
It turns out that Deus Ex: Human Revolution will include three difficulty levels.

The mistake was picked up by the Game Director of Deus Ex, who is obviously a massive fan of our beloved games.on.net, and we were informed of the mistake this morning via email. We are very relieved to hear that it is indeed possible to tailor the game's difficulty, as games that forsake this feature tend to be a walk in the park for serious gamers. Yep, we're looking at you Ezio.

Apologies for the correction, but we report it as we record it, and we're sure Sebastien has been suitably beaten and broken for his error.

[Kodaemon]

This still doesn't answer about level scaling though.

[AlexOfSpades]

I guess we can disregard any information about the level scaling then, since we got no official words on that.

[TrickyVein]

Excellent. Much obliged.

[Alai]

I had the strangest difficulty changing dance with this game. I first started at Medium, like I do with most new games. Then I found it to be too hard, so I changed it to Easy. Then, as I progressed more and gotten more familiar with gameplay, it became too easy. So I restarted the game at Hard, then soon enough changed it to Realistic. Once I understood how game worked, even realistic became easy enough.

[Ikalx]

Ya know it's funny, when I first played DX1 it took me the longest ever time to clear the lower levels of Liberty Island. I stealthed, I took down enemies one at a time, I made sure I wasn't seen or chased, and I think I lost my legs pretty early on. I was fascinated by what the game seemed to offer, and I imagined enemies around every corner and played with every move on edge. The game had me enthralled.

I think I cleared all the lower level of Liberty Island (excluding the buildings), in about 10 hours or so.

Shortly after, I saw my brother run through the level shooting down everyone in quick succession.

I was crushed. Generally speaking i'm a fairly good fps player, and I could have done that easily (especially since it was on the recommended normal difficulty), but in my head it was that I imagined the game to be a lot more in-depth than that, and a lot harder.

Of course, i'm not rubbishing the game at all, my point is just that often, people will make their own difficulty levels.