Frank Miller's Batman Discussion Thread

[A Dark Knight]

So, my other thread pretty much died. No one has written on it in weeks :(

So here's a new thread for discussion! Feel free to talk about All Star, or anything else related to Frank Miller's Batman.

[Zur-en-ah]

is there an official start date for the continuation of All Star Batman & Robin yet?

[A Dark Knight]

is there an official start date for the continuation of All Star Batman & Robin yet?
Are you one of the people who liked All Star like me? Well it starts back up in February.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Batman from Year One and TDKR will *always* be my favorite incarnation of Batman, ever. Not even Kevin Conroy can change that (though I will say that to me he's about second best).

[EliteF50]

Batman from Year One and TDKR will *always* be my favorite incarnation of Batman, ever. Not even Kevin Conroy can change that (though I will say that to me he's about second best).

Tsk, tsk. How dare you?

[DarkKnightReturns]

If it's any consolation, Kevin is very, very close, but I like Year One/TDKR Batman just a hair more.

[EliteF50]

If it's any consolation, Kevin is very, very close, but I like Year One/TDKR Batman just a hair more.

Fair enough. TDKR/YO are very awesome. But for me, Kevin is Batman.

[Matches Malone]

Tsk, tsk. How dare you?

?? How dare you! Kevin Conroy isn't even a dent in the Batman universe compared to the work done by Frank Miller. Kevin Conroy might be flipping burgers or homeless right now if it weren't for Miller's writing that created the platform for which TAS launched off of. TAS will always be a pale shadow of the comics for me.

[A Dark Knight]

So how many of you guys like All Star?

[Matches Malone]

All Star may well eventually creep up to be my favorite Batman book someday. I love an unhinged, violent Batman. Ever since reading ASBAR everything else just seems a tad watered down.

is there an official start date for the continuation of All Star Batman & Robin yet?

I believe its February.

[Drazar]

is there an official start date for the continuation of All Star Batman & Robin yet?

February. :) Click here for a teaser. (http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2010/04/02/whats-next-for-frank-miller-and-jim-lee/)

?? How dare you! Kevin Conroy isn't even a dent in the Batman universe compared to the work done by Frank Miller. Kevin Conroy might be flipping burgers or homeless right now if it weren't for Miller's writing that created the platform for which TAS launched off of. TAS will always be a pale shadow of the comics for me.

Yeah i mean we are comparing this:
http://i33.tinypic.com/2rdu3vm.jpg
To this:
http://i37.tinypic.com/2j4ystu.jpg

[Matches Malone]

HAHA! Thanks for the hard evidence to support my case Dr. Azar

Nothing gets me more "nerd raged" than people favoring cartoons & movies over the source material. Its just preposterous.

[A Dark Knight]

All Star may well eventually creep up to be my favorite Batman book someday. I love an unhinged, violent Batman. Ever since reading ASBAR everything else just seems a tad watered down.



I believe its February.
Cool. I still don't get what's so "terrible" about it. If you accept it as an Elseworlds, it's pretty awesome and hilarious

[Zur-en-ah]

Frank Miller is a god. I loved Year One, I loved TDKR, and I guess I kinda liked TDKSA ... but ASB&R was just awesome great fun ... my only criticism was that it never felt finished or complete

looks like Feb will sort that one out

[A Dark Knight]

Frank Miller is a god. I loved Year One, I loved TDKR, and I guess I kinda liked TDKSA ... but ASB&R was just awesome great fun ... my only criticism was that it never felt finished or complete

looks like Feb will sort that one out
Well that's because it WASN'T finished or completed. There was a huge buildup and we have to wait until February to see how this ties into TDKR

[EliteF50]

?? How dare you! Kevin Conroy isn't even a dent in the Batman universe compared to the work done by Frank Miller. Kevin Conroy might be flipping burgers or homeless right now if it weren't for Miller's writing that created the platform for which TAS launched off of. TAS will always be a pale shadow of the comics for me.

Hey, buddy. Watch your mouth. That's Mr. Conroy you're talking about. A man who earned a full scholarship to attend Julliard's at the age of seventeen. A man who can blow open a bank's vault by yelling at it. A man who can cure cancer with the sound of his voice. -_-

:)

[A Dark Knight]

Hey, buddy. Watch your mouth. That's Mr. Conroy you're talking about. A man who earned a full scholarship to attend Julliard's at the age of seventeen. A man who can blow open a bank's vault by yelling at it. A man who can cure cancer with the sound of his voice. -_-

:)
Have you read All Star Batman?

[EliteF50]

Have you read All Star Batman?

No, but wasn't its critical reception bad? I have read TDKR though, and I loved it. Frank Miller is really great, but Kevin represents Batman to me. I don't see that ever changing.

[A Dark Knight]

No, but wasn't its critical reception bad? I have read TDKR though, and I loved it. Frank Miller is really great, but Kevin represents Batman to me. I don't see that ever changing.
No, it's a love it or hate it kind of book, just so happens that "big" critics didn't like it, while smaller ones did. You should read it and see for yourself. Just get the TPB

[DarkKnightReturns]

I only dislike ASBAR very slightly. As good as it is, it's obviously an imperfect book, but that doesn't mean it's not damn great.

As for Kevin Conroy, he's the second best Batman to me.

Interesting story; shortly after getting all 4 volumes of BTAS, when I reached the commentary for "Legends Of The Dark Knight", I was shocked to hear Dini and crew had never read TDKR, especially since their tribute was so close to scenes in the book. Makes me wonder if Conroy ever got around to them. I wouldn't doubt it, but I'm not sure about it either. Both badass Batmen in their own right I guess.

I think that's why Keaton is my favorite live-action Batman. He read TDKR, and it shows. Sure he may be far from the build, and they wrote him to kill, but the presence, god damn, the presence. Every time I watch him silently moving in Burton's films I expect him to belt out an epic Miller line like the famous "operating table" monologue. You can just feel it in him.

[A Dark Knight]

I only dislike ASBAR very slightly. As good as it is, it's obviously an imperfect book, but that doesn't mean it's not damn great.

As for Kevin Conroy, he's the second best Batman to me.

Interesting story; shortly after getting all 4 volumes of BTAS, when I reached the commentary for "Legends Of The Dark Knight", I was shocked to hear Dini and crew had never read TDKR, especially since their tribute was so close to scenes in the book. Makes me wonder if Conroy ever got around to them. I wouldn't doubt it, but I'm not sure about it either. Both badass Batmen in their own right I guess.

I think that's why Keaton is my favorite live-action Batman. He read TDKR, and it shows. Sure he may be far from the build, and they wrote him to kill, but the presence, god damn, the presence. Every time I watch him silently moving in Burton's films I expect him to belt out an epic Miller line like the famous "operating table" monologue. You can just feel it in him.
What were your pros and cons for All Star? Just to generate discussion

[DarkKnightReturns]

According to me:

ASBAR

Cons:

Batman abusing Robin

Pros:

Everything else

[xxhanzyxx]

I am really looking forward to ASBAR return in feb!

The others, I can't really enjoy them as I'm a visuaIist and can't get my head round the art, it's just too messy for me to handle.

No if Jim Lee did all frank miller work, I'm sure I would see it in a different light and think it was pure awsome. But unfortunately I can't feel that as I am let down by the art and can't get into the story no matter how much I want to or try :(

[A Dark Knight]

According to me:

ASBAR

Cons:

Batman abusing Robin

Pros:

Everything else
Well, I've always found Robin annoying

[DarkKnightReturns]

Well, I've always found Robin annoying

Even if you feel this way, one has to admit it's a little unnerving to watch Batman dish out physical pain to an innocent, let alone traumatized, tween when he was previously established to only do so to people who REALLY deserve it, like pimps, serial rapists, child killers, etc.

That aside, ASBAR is great.

[Matches Malone]

Putting Kevin Conroy over Frank Miller, in a Batman contributor sense, is like saying Dane Cook has given more to film than Alfred Hitchcock.

That was overly harsh bc I love Kevin & his tasty voice but he is just saying words & portraying a character that Frank Miller provided an essential role in creating/developing.

You can't compare him to Frank, you can however compare him to the likes of Bruce Greenwood & Diedrich Bader, still a tough competition & debatable.

[Zur-en-ah]

Putting Kevin Conroy over Frank Miller, in a Batman contributor sense, is like saying Dane Cook has given more to film than Alfred Hitchcock.

That was overly harsh bc I love Kevin & his tasty voice but he is just saying words & portraying a character that Frank Miller provided an essential role in creating/developing.

You can't compare him to Frank, you can however compare him to the likes of Bruce Greenwood & Diedrich Bader, still a tough competition & debatable.

nicely put

despite all the flak that ASB&R came in for, everyone forgets that it was Miller who turned the Batman universe on its head ... he essentially made Batman comics "grow up"

and everyone forgets that TDKR is often cited as one of the best Bat-books out there

think the reason ASB&R got a lot of criticism is because bat-fans had gotten too used to canonical Batman (ie, main storylines and consistent characterisation from comics etc) ... Miller's alternate Batman had been out-of-site and out-of-mind for quite a while

(but all of this has been covered many times byu many folks in earlier threads)

[DarkKnightReturns]

If you want to know why everyone is hating on Miller and ASBAR so bad, look no further than Linkara.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/13422-asbr01

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/14444-ep069

Dude really ticks me off for trying to make Miller look like the most incompetent Batman writer ever. Seriously, he just reads a lot of his own personal crap into whatever he's reading. Like subliminal pedophilia in Bruce acknowledging Dick's talents? That's jumping to conclusions with far too little evidence. And who DOESN'T like a Batman that would seriously injure some of the worst human scum on the planet?

But yes, I agree, Miller deserves a lot more acknowledgment. Hell, I don't know why instead of doing the Burton film we ended up getting they just didn't go ahead and adapt The Dark Knight Returns right away. I mean, they were trying to do a Watchmen film at the time shortly after it was released, so why the hell not TDKR? It would've been awesome. I hope Zack Snyder ends up doing it like he says he wants to; he already has Miller's approval.

Miller's Batman is definitely underrated, perhaps even misunderstood by people who haven't gotten the chance to read him. Thanks to idiots like Linkara, we have all these people turned off to even trying Year One and TDKR. Thanks a lot, Linkara -_-

[EliteF50]

If you want to know why everyone is hating on Miller and ASBAR so bad, look no further than Linkara.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/13422-asbr01

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/14444-ep069

Dude really ticks me off for trying to make Miller look like the most incompetent Batman writer ever. Seriously, he just reads a lot of his own personal crap into whatever he's reading. Like subliminal pedophilia in Bruce acknowledging Dick's talents? That's jumping to conclusions with far too little evidence. And who DOESN'T like a Batman that would seriously injure some of the worst human scum on the planet?

But yes, I agree, Miller deserves a lot more acknowledgment. Hell, I don't know why instead of doing the Burton film we ended up getting they just didn't go ahead and adapt The Dark Knight Returns right away. I mean, they were trying to do a Watchmen film at the time shortly after it was released, so why the hell not TDKR? It would've been awesome. I hope Zack Snyder ends up doing it like he says he wants to; he already has Miller's approval.

Miller's Batman is definitely underrated, perhaps even misunderstood by people who haven't gotten the chance to read him. Thanks to idiots like Linkara, we have all these people turned off to even trying Year One and TDKR. Thanks a lot, Linkara -_-

Uh... well, judging from that video, ASBR's writing is piss poor. Hehe. I hope that's not the case for every issue.

Putting Kevin Conroy over Frank Miller, in a Batman contributor sense, is like saying Dane Cook has given more to film than Alfred Hitchcock.

That was overly harsh bc I love Kevin & his tasty voice but he is just saying words & portraying a character that Frank Miller provided an essential role in creating/developing.

Yes, I now Miller is great. I already said that! Even though his latest work hasn't been as good as his earlier work.

You can't compare him to Frank, you can however compare him to the likes of Bruce Greenwood & Diedrich Bader, still a tough competition & debatable.

Yes, because he's a voice actor and Miller is a writer. But to compare him to Greenwood and Bader and still say that's a tough choice? I don't agree with whatsoever.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Uh... well, judging from that video, ASBR's writing is piss poor. Hehe. I hope that's not the case for every issue.

Read the book for yourself, and form your own opinion. Linkara's thoughts shouldn't dictate whether or not a comic is any good.

[A Dark Knight]

Read the book for yourself, and form your own opinion. Linkara's thoughts shouldn't dictate whether or not a comic is any good.
^This

I couldn't watch that video any longer or I thought I would develop a lisp myself! You can tell he tries to be funny but he completely fails. He's a class A nerd.

[DarkKnightReturns]

"There is no time for grief. There is no room for grief. Grief leads to acceptance. Acceptance leads to forgiveness. Forgiveness for what should never be forgiven."

^ one of my favorite quotes from ASBAR (idk if it's exact since it's from memory, but it's something along those lines). It's actually something I live by, since it's true.

[EliteF50]

Read the book for yourself, and form your own opinion. Linkara's thoughts shouldn't dictate whether or not a comic is any good.

I will, but it's not like the writing is going to change. "I have a date with Bruce Wayne" x10

Lol...

"There is no time for grief. There is no room for grief. Grief leads to acceptance. Acceptance leads to forgiveness. Forgiveness for what should never be forgiven."

^ one of my favorite quotes from ASBAR (idk if it's exact since it's from memory, but it's something along those lines). It's actually something I live by, since it's true.

I disagree with it. Everything should be forgiven. No matter how hard it is.

[A Dark Knight]

I will, but it's not like the writing is going to change. "I have a date with Bruce Wayne" x10

Lol...



I disagree with it. Everything should be forgiven. No matter how hard it is.
Ok, let's not get into morals here LOL, but I will say that you should forgive SMALL things, but never forget. Some things are too horrible to EVER be forgiven. Good writing nonetheless. And the date with Bruce Wayne thing is just to show her excitement. It happens only in Issues 1 and 2 I believe, the whole repeating lines for emphasis, but you'll understand when you read it. And Linkara is a moron.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Ok, let's not get into morals here LOL, but I will say that you should forgive SMALL things, but never forget. Some things are too horrible to EVER be forgiven. Good writing nonetheless. And the date with Bruce Wayne thing is just to show her excitement. It happens only in Issues 1 and 2 I believe, the whole repeating lines for emphasis, but you'll understand when you read it. And Linkara is a moron.

Exactly. Should rapists be forgiven? Should abusive parents be forgiven? Should Hitler and other mass murderers be forgiven? etc. I don't think so.

[A Dark Knight]

Exactly. Should rapists be forgiven? Should abusive parents be forgiven? Should Hitler and other mass murderers be forgiven? etc. I don't think so.
Yeah, hopefully Elite gets to read the TPB. In fact I'll reread it! :D

[Drazar]

Bruce does forgive his parents murderer once he grows older. He realizes the killer was just desperate for cash and that because the way goverment has ruled our society, it has caused people to become poor and desperate. This is one of the things i love about Miller's Batman: Batman is a political figure. Batman as he grows older realizes that he needs to *change* the whole world, not just run around Gotham and punch crooks here and there. I also see this why Batman would fight terrorists and others, but i can understand DC not wanting to portray Batman as possibly racist. (Talking about the canceled Holy Terror, Batman! That Miller wanted to have Batman in it, but was forced to create a new character)

[Mani-Man]

One thing i absolutly hate about frank miller is that he always brings in the stupid superman/wonder woman pairing,i hate that.This is something i always hated and always will hate in the whole DC universe.But with everything else i like frank millers batman!

[DarkKnightReturns]

That's the only other thing about ASBAR I don't like. I prefer Batman/Wonder Woman, as done in the DCAU. There was none of that Superman/Wonder Woman bull in Year One/TDKR. But that aside, you can't deny the epicness he does for Batman himself.

[Zur-en-ah]

This is one of the things i love about Miller's Batman: Batman is a political figure.

yeah, but he takes the whole political thing way too far in TDKSA

as for "Holy Terror, Batman" ... I'm kinda relieved this got shelved. Can't help but think the whole idea came out of the spin on the title, almost as tho it was a joke of Miller's and he was prepared to take the p*ss out of the Batman he'd created

[DarkKnightReturns]

Well, to be fair, DKSA isn't really a great book... I'm sorry, but it isn't... Not to me anyways. I almost honestly believe that somebody pulled a Hannibal Lecter and wore Miller's face when they turned the script for that in. I just don't see how that could have been his book, it was just, so different from Year One and TDKR.

To be honest, I was really curious about "Holy Terror, Batman!" to the point that I was hoping it would get released, just so I could see what it's like. I wouldn't mind seeing Batman battle real-life threats that are less ambiguous and more specific than mobsters and corrupt cops, as long as it's written so in good conscience.

Just imagine, wouldn't it be really neat to see Batman fight the KKK and Neo-Nazis and things like that?

[Zur-en-ah]

Well, to be fair, DKSA isn't really a great book... I'm sorry, but it isn't... Not to me anyways. I almost honestly believe that somebody pulled a Hannibal Lecter and wore Miller's face when they turned the script for that in. I just don't see how that could have been his book, it was just, so different from Year One and TDKR.

To be honest, I was really curious about "Holy Terror, Batman!" to the point that I was hoping it would get released, just so I could see what it's like. I wouldn't mind seeing Batman battle real-life threats that are less ambiguous and more specific than mobsters and corrupt cops, as long as it's written so in good conscience.

Just imagine, wouldn't it be really neat to see Batman fight the KKK and Neo-Nazis and things like that?

yeah I agree with you about TDKSA (so no need to apologise!) ... I think he was resting on the laurels of TDKR and maybe pushed the whole political angle a little too hard ... by including other characters of the wider DC universe also he took it too far away from the Bat-universe (even if it was his own futuristic canon, if you know what I mean?!)

as for Holy Terror ... hmmmmn ... I think comics should keep real world issues at an arm's length. By all means, comics should def reflect and comment on modern day topics. (FYI - I think the Punisher Max series did this brilliantly)

but to have Batman chasing after Bin Laden in Afghanistan?! that's a step too far for me

[DarkKnightReturns]

yeah I agree with you about TDKSA (so no need to apologise!) ... I think he was resting on the laurels of TDKR and maybe pushed the whole political angle a little too hard ... by including other characters of the wider DC universe also he took it too far away from the Bat-universe (even if it was his own futuristic canon, if you know what I mean?!)

as for Holy Terror ... hmmmmn ... I think comics should keep real world issues at an arm's length. By all means, comics should def reflect and comment on modern day topics. (FYI - I think the Punisher Max series did this brilliantly)

but to have Batman chasing after Bin Laden in Afghanistan?! that's a step too far for me

I think that was one of the fatal flaws about the book. It became so much less about Batman and a lot more about everyone else. Miller was able to handle other aspects of the DC Universe fine in TDKR and ASBAR, but he tried it WAY too much in TDKSA.

Part of the reason I think the idea for Holy Terror is so badly received is because it's a really sensitive topic. It's the same thing as Comedy Central not wanting to show Muhammad on South Park because of the death threats that it would invoke. So I'm guessing people were worried Miller would have brought some death threats down on us by having Batman beat those terrorists. I don't know.

Nobody complained when Captain America and Superman fought Nazis, though, so I think it's kind of a double standard if you ask me...

[Drazar]

yeah, but he takes the whole political thing way too far in TDKSA

The satireness yeah, but i'm talking about Batman fightning the corrupt goverment and defeating it. Showing the superheroes that they need to *be* criminals, they need to *control* the corrupt agencies and goverments in order to stop criminals like random bob into murdering people for money. Thats what i love about Miller's Batman.


as for "Holy Terror, Batman" ... I'm kinda relieved this got shelved. Can't help but think the whole idea came out of the spin on the title, almost as tho it was a joke of Miller's and he was prepared to take the p*ss out of the Batman he'd created

I liked the concept of Batman taking a real threat, because it feels silly for someone like Batman to focus on Riddler compared to real threats. Ofcourse with the whole war on terror and whatnot going on, it would have possibly been deemed highly racist.

yeah I agree with you about TDKSA (so no need to apologise!) ... I think he was resting on the laurels of TDKR and maybe pushed the whole political angle a little too hard ... by including other characters of the wider DC universe also he took it too far away from the Bat-universe (even if it was his own futuristic canon, if you know what I mean?!)

See i actually appreciated the fact Miller tried something new, but he did it with a crap execution. I loved the whole Silver Age tribute he was going for, but it lacked Superman's perspective, it focused heavily on the satire and it was just too short at the end of the day. I hope we can learn more about post-TDKSA world someday, if DC would ever let Miller do that.

If theres one thing *i would utterly love* it's Batman & Jason Todd Robin written by Frank Miller. Thats what i keep wanting from Miller. :cool:

By all means, comics should def reflect and comment on modern day topics.

It was so awesome to see Aquaman stop the oil leak. :( :P :D


Nobody complained when Captain America and Superman fought Nazis, though, so I think it's kind of a double standard if you ask me...

Yeah but that was about 70 years ago, buddy. :D The world has changed.

[DarkKnightReturns]

If theres one thing *i would utterly love* it's Batman & Jason Todd Robin written by Frank Miller. Thats what i keep wanting from Miller. :cool:

Damn, do I agree. That would be AWESOME. When I saw UTRH and the scene where Jason broke the pimp's collarbone and proclaimed he totally deserved it, that just SCREAMED TDKR to me.

As for Superheroes VS Nazis being dated, I'm just surprised nobody does it right now. By that I mean, if you consider back when in the Silver Age, they were okay with doing things like having superheroes fighting Nazis, but not things that they would ever dare try to do until books like Watchmen, TDKR and The Killing Joke, that political commentary on modern warfare would still be allowed. Comic books in general have crossed the line in every corner of censorship and what not in ways that would send every movie and TV show you can think of running with their tails tucked, so why not give something like Holy Terror a try?

If we can have Joker robbing banks by forcing owners to masturbate to pictures of their young daughters then can't we have Batman or someone combating a real-life threat? Captain America was being published DURING WWII, so what's the difference here?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it has to do with "political sensitivity". It really stinks when you think about how this is pretty much bashing the 1st amendment up the wazoo. "Go ahead and make fun of whatever you want, but the second you get a death threat you better quit it, mister."

[Matches Malone]

I very much like TDKSA, its a little ridiculous at times but damn it has some epic scenes. Introductions to characters like The Atom & Flash were just awesome. Some of the best lines in ASBAR were referencing quotes in TDKSA. And Bruce's "Put on your tights AND GIVE 'EM HELL!!!" speech is just kick ass. The ending with Luthor is also very satisfying given how much I hate Luthor (in a good way).

[A Dark Knight]

I very much like TDKSA, its a little ridiculous at times but damn it has some epic scenes. Introductions to characters like The Atom & Flash were just awesome. Some of the best lines in ASBAR were referencing quotes in TDKSA. And Bruce's "Put on your tights AND GIVE 'EM HELL!!!" speech is just kick ass. The ending with Luthor is also very satisfying given how much I hate Luthor (in a good way).
Yeah I thought TDKSA wasn't as good as TDKR (of course) but it was a good, not great, book. I thought it was interesting, although the art was bad. As for All Star, if it had been released in place of TDKR, it would've garnered the same acclaim, if not a bit less. But it's the SAME Batman from TDKR, what's not to love?

[Matches Malone]

As for All Star, if it had been released in place of TDKR, it would've garnered the same acclaim, if not a bit less. But it's the SAME Batman from TDKR, what's not to love?

This is exactly what I say, preachin to the choir.

[A Dark Knight]

This is exactly what I say, preachin to the choir.
My bad, I was just summing it up again :(

[DarkKnightReturns]

You know what I notice? When it comes to people who haven't read comics, but claim to be Batman fans, they always like the villains over Batman, especially in the case of the Joker (after TDK).

If Miller's Batman had more exposure in media, EVERYONE would like him more than his own villains.

[A Dark Knight]

You know what I notice? When it comes to people who haven't read comics, but claim to be Batman fans, they always like the villains over Batman, especially in the case of the Joker (after TDK).

If Miller's Batman had more exposure in media, EVERYONE would like him more than his own villains.
^This

Miller's Batman, especially in ASBAR, is a badass.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Exactly.

I would be more scared of TDKR's Batman than I would be of Heath Ledger's Joker.

[Matches Malone]

Millers Batman is a badass, he is aware that his behavior is more than a little psychotic but he pursues with supreme confidence. He doesn't compromise & he isn't scared of anything. I think a lot of people just like the gentle, little emo Batman who stands on buildings crying about how much he misses his parents. I like the giant beast of a Batman who beats criminals within an inch of their life & laughs while doing it.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Millers Batman is a badass, he is aware that his behavior is more than a little psychotic but he pursues with supreme confidence. He doesn't compromise & he isn't scared of anything. I think a lot of people just like the gentle, little emo Batman who stands on buildings crying about how much he misses his parents. I like the giant beast of a Batman who beats criminals within an inch of their life & laughs while doing it.

So true.

[A Dark Knight]

Millers Batman is a badass, he is aware that his behavior is more than a little psychotic but he pursues with supreme confidence. He doesn't compromise & he isn't scared of anything. I think a lot of people just like the gentle, little emo Batman who stands on buildings crying about how much he misses his parents. I like the giant beast of a Batman who beats criminals within an inch of their life & laughs while doing it.

I loled.

[DarkKnightReturns]

Thanks to people hating on Miller and just having this overload of a totally different Batman by a whole bunch of different writers, nobody has any idea how awesome Batman really is. I'm betting more people think of Batman as the Adam West or Joel Schumacher version and don't even know about Frank Miller.

[A Dark Knight]

Thanks to people hating on Miller and just having this overload of a totally different Batman by a whole bunch of different writers, nobody has any idea how awesome Batman really is. I'm betting more people think of Batman as the Adam West or Joel Schumacher version and don't even know about Frank Miller.
This is true. I think Nolan's Batman has come the closest to Miller's Batman, but he maintains his sanity, which I guess is more mainstream. But let's do a poll of sorts. Who liked All Star Batman?

[Drazar]

Damn, do I agree. That would be AWESOME. When I saw UTRH and the scene where Jason broke the pimp's collarbone and proclaimed he totally deserved it, that just SCREAMED TDKR to me.

I liked the part where Batman referred Jason as his soldier.

As for Superheroes VS Nazis being dated, I'm just surprised nobody does it right now.

Well yeah noone does it to hugely pop culture icons like Batman barely. Justice Society of America has nazi enemies and communists. Captain America has the Red Skull among other villains such as Baron Zemo. Ultimate Marvel had their take on Red Skull which was updated into an American Neo Nazi. You have to remember that Superman slappaing "japanazis" was propaganda at it's finest. These comics we're literally send to the soldiers and schools of the American people. Nowdays with the internet and general globalization somethings just change.

so why not give something like Holy Terror a try?


Holy Terror is comign out next year, it just has a new character created by Miller.

If we can have Joker robbing banks by forcing owners to masturbate to pictures of their young daughters then can't we have Batman or someone combating a real-life threat?

Yeah but Joker graphical novel was full of hidden messages and implications. Such as Batman being a downright villain.


If Miller's Batman had more exposure in media, EVERYONE would like him more than his own villains.

I don't know. Watchmen was a hated movie because adult took their children to see it among other things. Tim Burton's Batman, while being a downright murderer was still portrayed in more heroic light.

Thanks to people hating on Miller

I think you're overreacting with this. It's like people hating Robin and Superman. Some people just go with the flow because it's cool. Know the term hipster? I'm talking about that. Frank Miller is still popular over Hollywood since they're adapting Xerxes, Ronin is getting adapted aswell & Sin City 2. Miller liked the idea fo Snyder doing The Dark Knight Returns, so it's really about Warner Brothers deciding what to do with their Batman property post-Nolan.

[DarkKnightReturns]

As much as I like practically everything Miller (with few exceptions), I was still most interested in seeing how Holy Terror would have turned out if Batman stayed in. That itched at my curiosity for the longest time, and now I'm never gonna know how it would have gone down. A little bit of a let down to me.

And as for the Azzarello Joker comparison, I'm talking about being dark and serious enough to tackle real life things. While what Joker did may sound too sick to happen, it's sadly true in some ways (such as Johnathan Goodrum and Reginald Davis, real life people, raping their own daughters - as if that wasn't horrible enough, they were both under two weeks old). Now that comics have a more sophisticated outlook due to the Diamond Age, I think "Holy Terror, Batman!" could have been done ethically and consciously if given the chance. Calling "Holy Terror, Batman!" racist against the Middle East for depicting Batman taking down Bin Laden is the same as calling "Inglorious Basterds" racist against Germans for depicting the death of Hitler.

I hate to sound insensitive, but any parent who took their child to see Watchmen and was shocked by it's content is an idiot. It's rated R for a reason. Shouldn't they have been able to tell? Pfft. People and their assumption of superheroes...

People may have a lot of hate for Robin and Superman, but Miller and his Batman works have it even worse because not only do they have as much hate - they're even more obscure. Go up to anyone on the street and talk about Robin or Superman, and they may agree or disagree with you, but at least they'll know what the hell you're talking about. Bring up Miller, and 9 times out of 10 you'll get "Frank who?" nowadays the most you hear of Miller and Batman in the same sentence is how horrible he's gotten since TDKSA/ASBAR and is one of the worst Batman writers ever, which is a lot of bull. Without TDKR and Year One, we wouldn't have the oh so precious Heath Ledger Joker so many ignorant posers leech onto without having ever opened a comic or knowing a damn about the terrific history that culminated up to this.

That's just my two cents though. You have valid points.

[Drazar]

A

And as for the Azzarello Joker comparison

You also have to remember it was subtly hinted with red herrings. You're comparing a censor-countering addition to the story towards a possible propaganda story that you can't just censor-counter with clever winks and nods.

"Inglorious Basterds" racist against Germans for depicting the death of Hitler.

The movie did gain minor negative reception regarding that the Jews & French we're cold harded killers towards the nazis... Which comes to me pointing out how film indrusty has this cliché of showing the hero in good light: Including Tim Burton's murdering Batman.

I hate to sound insensitive, but any parent who took their child to see Watchmen and was shocked by it's content is an idiot. It's rated R for a reason. Shouldn't they have been able to tell? Pfft. People and their assumption of superheroes...

Tell me about it.

People may have a lot of hate for Robin and Superman

And for no other reason, but because it's "cool" to hate them. Same thing goes for Aquaman. It was probably cool to mock Batman post-1997 and consider him a joke. :p Nowdays Batman is again the whole "cool" thing going on with Batman "fans" acting cool and bashing Superman with their ignorant arguments. :p
Robin or Superman, and they may agree or disagree with you, but at least they'll know what the hell you're talking about.
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Bring up Miller, and 9 times out of 10 you'll get "Frank who?" nowadays the most you hear of Miller and Batman in the same sentence is how horrible he's gotten since TDKSA/ASBAR and is one of the worst Batman writers ever, which is a lot of bull.

The Dark Knight Returns is the most selling Batman graphical novel that gets reprinted all the time when it runs out. You got people hating the modern work of Jeph Loeb, James Robinson and Frank Miller, but people still praise their earlier work. With Hollywood adapting Miller's work, he's not really as hated as you think. Also writers on Batman are always the lesser known ones, but people recognize film directors, because it works easier for pop culture. We praise actors and directors in a huge level, not comic book writers.

[A Dark Knight]

You also have to remember it was subtly hinted with red herrings. You're comparing a censor-countering addition to the story towards a possible propaganda story that you can't just censor-counter with clever winks and nods.



The movie did gain minor negative reception regarding that the Jews & French we're cold harded killers towards the nazis... Which comes to me pointing out how film indrusty has this cliché of showing the hero in good light: Including Tim Burton's murdering Batman.



Tell me about it.


And for no other reason, but because it's "cool" to hate them. Same thing goes for Aquaman. It was probably cool to mock Batman post-1997 and consider him a joke. :p Nowdays Batman is again the whole "cool" thing going on with Batman "fans" acting cool and bashing Superman with their ignorant arguments. :p

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The Dark Knight Returns is the most selling Batman graphical novel that gets reprinted all the time when it runs out. You got people hating the modern work of Jeph Loeb, James Robinson and Frank Miller, but people still praise their earlier work. With Hollywood adapting Miller's work, he's not really as hated as you think. Also writers on Batman are always the lesser known ones, but people recognize film directors, because it works easier for pop culture. We praise actors and directors in a huge level, not comic book writers.
True. But why do people hate ASBAR besides the major character differences? I mean it IS an alternate universe (and a much better one at that).

EDIT: Have you guys seen Inception? Damn good movie, just wanted to mention it since Nolan was the director