The grain effect do you like it?

[Master davo 1]

I`ve been playing the demo and the fuzzy camera gets pretty annoying after a while wondering what everybody else thinks about it? The stretched lights are too in your face and bright at some points also.

[gnrGrievous]

It's RAW ...

[Vulture]

im fine with the amount of grain effect in sp.. but in mp its too much

[nodoctors]

Doesn't bother me at all. Though I wish there was a bar that we could slide that would control the amount of camera bob while running. The default is a bit much for my eyes, and not having the bob at all kind of takes away a bit of the charm. A slider could also be implemented for film grain for you guys. The MPEG compression glitches and audio bugs should all stay though. That stuff is great.

[2Rare2Die]

Yea MP maybe a little too much But I like it in General

[Kent-45]

Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 have a slider for adjusting the amount of film grain in-game. Awesome feature.

[TAPETRVE]

I think the amount of grain is just fine. I love the effect, especially how everything gets fuzzy for a sec when you enter a dark area and aperture correction kicks in.

[zAnO-]

Don't like it at all, makes the game look like it was made in 1995

[TAPETRVE]

Dude, you clearly have a problem with your eyes :D .

[TheMoD]

Don't like it at all, makes the game look like it was made in 1995

haha yea totally they just couldn't get 3d right back then, it was always so grainy...
I like it, and I don't even turn off the dynamic contrast on my tv which makes it look even more intense! Yea thats just how extreme I am! :mad2:

[Bevacur]

I don't bother with the film grain, i'm too busy playing, betraying and stealing cash than examining the scenery.

[Master davo 1]

Dude, you clearly have a problem with your eyes :D .
What you don`t get stinging eyes when you look at big bright in your face lights.

[ohitspatty]

Don't like it at all, makes the game look like it was made in 1995

1995...ah what a beautiful year we had Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island.

[gnrGrievous]

Seriously though , are you guys just full on exagerations or what ? because the grainy filters and shaky cameras ? ... i barely notice them , i mean , not in the way you all seem to describe it anywya ...

Unless of course , this game was designed to suit the schizophrenics , that i'll understand ...

[Icedog]

Don't like it at all, makes the game look like it was made in 1995

I love the grain effect in the game, but some people don't get it.the kane and lynch grainy cam make it look more real,dark and grim.
I'm suprised that no one notice how the sniper rifle is to me that the biggest thing, the game art shouldn't mess with the sniper.

If it not broke.:cool:

[Arsh]

Love the visual style of the game, grain included.

[UhUh]

It's one of my favorite things.
To those who speak of options...are you serious? the whole game turns around this style, and you want it to be optional? I'm sorry, but no way; now everything must be optional, what next, since you don't like Lynch you want an option to play as Lara Croft?

[gnrGrievous]

since you don't like Lynch you want an option to play as Lara Croft?

Hell yeah they should do that ! it'll be great for promoting that new Tomb Raider game ! ...

[nodoctors]

It's one of my favorite things.
To those who speak of options...are you serious? the whole game turns around this style, and you want it to be optional? I'm sorry, but no way; now everything must be optional, what next, since you don't like Lynch you want an option to play as Lara Croft?

They already offer a steadycam option that completely alters the chaotic feel of the game, it's not so crazy to offer a slider option on what is a generic grain filter. The fact that you compare it to changing the characters completely is such a joke, nobody should even bother trying to make a logical argument against you beyond this point. If you sincerely think the game revolves around a visual grain filter instead of the execution of the gameplay and storyline, I pity you as a gamer. The options requested in this thread so far are so ridiculously minor, that your reaction post is actually quite hilarious. Play on

[UhUh]

They already offer a steadycam option that completely alters the chaotic feel of the game, it's not so crazy to offer a slider option on what is a generic grain filter. The fact that you compare it to changing the characters completely is such a joke, nobody should even bother trying to make a logical argument against you beyond this point. If you sincerely think the game revolves around a visual grain filter instead of the execution of the gameplay and storyline, I pity you as a gamer. The options requested in this thread so far are so ridiculously minor, that your reaction post is actually quite hilarious. Play on

...what we wanted to achieve with the game, which is to make it seem like you’re truly situated in an existing world and that you’re a part of something living. Kane & Lynch are, for the most part, everyday antiheroes and we wanted the world of Dog Days to reflect that.
The challenge has been trying to find a level of realism, which isn’t only photo-realistic but which somehow situates the player in the environment and then try to push the limits for what we could achieve, technically and artistically. We’re trying to achieve this by not only focusing on getting all the right and quirky details in there but, just as important, we’ve tried to make the particular brand of ‘realism’ in the gameplay as pervasive as possible in the visual design as well.

How do you like them apples? :wave:

[nodoctors]

How do you like them apples? :wave:

And again, they already programmed in an option to disable one of the very features that you feel so strongly about. So why don't you present "them apples" to the developers themselves? And could you have made any more of a textbook straw man argument? You're even quoting Poulsen the ART director. :rolleyes:

Even Silent Hill's team made it a point to include a grain filter in their games to give it the old school horror aesthetic. However, they also included the option to turn it off completely if you wanted to, to suit the preferences of the very player base that makes them what they are. They didn't read some request for the option on the forum and react like "WELL GEE, IF YOU WANT TO TURN THE GRAIN OFF, WHY DON'T WE JUST TURN JAMES SUNDERLAND INTO MEGA MAN?!" The exaggerated response to such an option is astounding really.

[UhUh]

And again, they already programmed in an option to disable one of the very features that you feel so strongly about. So why don't you present "them apples" to the developers themselves? And could you have made any more of a textbook straw man argument? You're even quoting Poulsen the ART director. :rolleyes:

Even Silent Hill's team made it a point to include a grain filter in their games to give it the old school horror aesthetic. However, they also included the option to turn it off completely if you wanted to, to suit the preferences of the very player base that makes them what they are. They didn't read some request for the option on the forum and react like "WELL GEE, IF YOU WANT TO TURN THE GRAIN OFF, WHY DON'T WE JUST TURN JAMES SUNDERLAND INTO MEGA MAN?!" The exaggerated response to such an option is astounding really.

You really don't get it, do you?
The estetic is part of the game, get it? no?
Would've Shindler's List been the same if it were in colors instead of b&w? no, it wouldn't smartass, becouse the estetic is part of the deal.
It's used to make a point; take it away and it doesn't work anymore.

Unlike Silent Hill, here it's not a matter of using one effect to *wink wink* look we're doing the grain effect *wink wink*, you can't nitpick, ok I like the lights, take away the bloom, a little less pixellation and a coffee thanks.
As Karsten Lund said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDB_9fBQJtU&feature=related#t=4m18s) it's about the overall experience, not this or that effect.

So it's not me that feel strong about this, it's the developers; yes there's an option to turn off the shaky cam, becouse apparently there's a lot of people that throw up whenever they walk, but can you honestly say that it's just a gimmick becouse of that? To believe that it's not important at this point, after all the interviews, previews, discussions, adverts, trailers that always, always underline the raw, gritty, youtube-like style it's :mad2: and I leave it at that.

But it doesn't bother me at all, since the game it's done already and fortunately this won't be changed; what's sad, is that whenever a game come across trying to be different, someguy has to come around and ask it to be brought down to his standards of gray, default, indentity-less.

Now take your pity and go dig yourself a hole in Norway, don't come up for at least the next 12 years; maybe by then we'll have forgotten and we won't laugh at you.

[TAPETRVE]

Hey, leave Norway alone! They have Ninjas!

[gnrGrievous]

what's sad, is that whenever a game come across trying to be different, someguy has to come around and ask it to be brought down to his standards of gray, default, indentity-less.

Yeah , about that ...

I for one feel that the cover and shooting is less precise than the 'mess' they made in Dead Men , granted it's Not 'exactly' what you were saying , but they change it because a lot of people couldn't handle it , now i'm the one who is going to rant about it , so ... anywya ...

[TAPETRVE]

Indeed, there's a lot more recoil and bullet spread going on. I guess that's intended as a compromise in order to compensate for the revamped controls, because with the overly dead-on trajectory from the first game, you could pretty much shoot the pupil out of a target's eye. The way things turned out in K&L2, shootouts tend to last much longer than they do in other shooters, despite the extremely high pacing of the action. Targets can be easily taken down with a single burst of fire, but there's a lot of focus put on grazing shots.

[nodoctors]

You really don't get it, do you?
The estetic is part of the game, get it? no?
Would've Shindler's List been the same if it were in colors instead of b&w? no, it wouldn't smartass, becouse the estetic is part of the deal.
It's used to make a point; take it away and it doesn't work anymore.

Unlike Silent Hill, here it's not a matter of using one effect to *wink wink* look we're doing the grain effect *wink wink*, you can't nitpick, ok I like the lights, take away the bloom, a little less pixellation and a coffee thanks.
As Karsten Lund said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDB_9fBQJtU&feature=related#t=4m18s) it's about the overall experience, not this or that effect.

So it's not me that feel strong about this, it's the developers; yes there's an option to turn off the shaky cam, becouse apparently there's a lot of people that throw up whenever they walk, but can you honestly say that it's just a gimmick becouse of that? To believe that it's not important at this point, after all the interviews, previews, discussions, adverts, trailers that always, always underline the raw, gritty, youtube-like style it's :mad2: and I leave it at that.

But it doesn't bother me at all, since the game it's done already and fortunately this won't be changed; what's sad, is that whenever a game come across trying to be different, someguy has to come around and ask it to be brought down to his standards of gray, default, indentity-less.

Now take your pity and go dig yourself a hole in Norway, don't come up for at least the next 12 years; maybe by then we'll have forgotten and we won't laugh at you.

Somebody's getting blatantly too upset over the grain filter. Yeah, the visual style is about delivering a raw visual style akin to user content. But you can't tell me that offering one option that greatly alters this aesthetic is okay because they put it in for the sake of the users, when offering to alter something much simpler as the grain filter is NOT OKAY for the sake of the users. Your analogies are so ridiculously exaggerated once again, it's a bit mind boggling. Altering some visual grain is not the same thing as colorizing a film(jesus, seriously?) or changing the actual characters. But please, go on embarassing yourself with more poor analogies and petty insults like telling someone to essentially bury themselves. Really. :rolleyes:

The thing you clearly don't understand is that the grain is actually not the thing that delivers the "user generated content" feel of the game. When you look at the Shanghai restaurant opening, it's the way the shot is framed, the way it sounds, the cuts it makes, and the visual glare of using a digital camera. It feels like a real video. The grain is such a ridiculously small part of it, yet you treat it like it's the thing holding the game together. Clearly we won't see eye to eye on this, so keep on head banging.

[Unpaid Intern]

I think that this is an interesting discussion and there is no reason to get upset just because we don't all agree.

My take on all this: when you go for that cheap digi-cam look, there isn't one effect in particular that achieves this. It's a combination of a bunch of seemingly trivial little things all clicking together, supporting each other. They're all important; the way the cutscenes are framed/edited, the way the sound is treated, the wind effect, the bloom, the ever-exposed lighting, the noise, the light streaking, the lens flares, the artifacting, the dark rims around the sharp points of light, the shaky cam, etc...

So which effect in this cheap digi-cam look is optional? Obviously, the guys who devised it thought every one of them was important or else they wouldn't have bothered the coders with it. If you start removing any of the individual effects, you are eroding the overall impact of the visuals.

Also, one guy might say it's just the noise he wants to tweak ..but another might be annoyed by the noise and the light streaking, the artifacting, the sound distortion and on and on..... I don't think it's reasonable to expect user controls for every one of these effects. The shaky cam is a special case because motion sickness is a real problem for some people. The noise and the rest are not.

KL2 is in a sense a freak product and the digi-cam look is a reaction to the middle-of-the road graphics we see in all the mainstream titles - it's meant to be brash and to stand out. It's a little bit arty in that sense ..but not in some extreme, indigestible way. I mean seriously: if the KL2 look is too far off the beaten path for the mainstream then it really is a sad state of affairs we're in :hmm:

[nodoctors]

I do believe that the effect is created through the sum of its parts, but I do not believe that the parts are all equal. Noise filter is something that is used in many other titles, and gamers are familiar with it. It's a small part of delivering the "realism" aspect that they're going for, and it's old hat, unlike everything else they've done. This is important because everything else I listed from the way the shots are framed to the mpeg compression and light glare are actually very unique, and as far as I know, new to this game. Or in the least, they're not effects done often in videogames. These are the types of effects that nobody has ever asked to be removed, and with good reason. It sets the game apart. Noise filter does not. On top of this, it's not like HD pocket digital cameras haven't existed for years now. These do not have visual grain, and would still be successful in delivering the raw and "realistic" visual style through the use of every single other effect artistically applied to the game...would you not agree? If I walked to your house and shut the noise filter off by snapping my fingers, you wouldn't stop playing and say "UGH, this doesn't feel ANYTHING like what they were going for! This isn't raw anymore, this is like every single other game now! I'm done."

Also, you would be surprised to find that contrary to belief, noise filter does have a negative effect on a select group of people. There have been complaints for years by those more troubled with sight that noise filter not only causes a strain of blur for them, but that it also oddly makes the game noticeably darker. When they up the gamma, this makes it more visible, but also ruins the visuals at the same time. A sort of catch-22. A more popular complaint that was especially brought up during the release of Mass Effect was that the filter would cause headaches in some users that would only go away when they disabled the effect. These effects have been reported by users from the old Silent Hill titles all the way up to the latest Sam and Max episode which has added a noticeable noise filter above and beyond its previous entries. The more you know.

Lastly, I would like to finish by pointing to my first post in this thread if anybody forgot. I don't have a problem with the noise filter. It doesn't bother me in the least bit. If there was an option to turn it off, I wouldn't bother messing with it. But I think if enough users want the option to alter the amount of it, they should be allowed to say so without having utterly ridiculous analogies thrown in their direction in a pejorative sense. It's a noise filter. It's not going to make or break the brilliant art design these guys have tailored for Dog Days. Just a few more weeks...

[gnrGrievous]

Indeed, there's a lot more recoil and bullet spread going on. I guess that's intended as a compromise in order to compensate for the revamped controls, because with the overly dead-on trajectory from the first game, you could pretty much shoot the pupil out of a target's eye. The way things turned out in K&L2, shootouts tend to last much longer than they do in other shooters, despite the extremely high pacing of the action. Targets can be easily taken down with a single burst of fire, but there's a lot of focus put on grazing shots.

Intensity is what they got it right that's for sure , can't wait to see how well the whole sense of urgency looks like ...

I think that this is an interesting discussion and there is no reason to get upset just because we don't all agree.

*crickett sounds , signaling the deserted place we're standing on* ...

KL2 is in a sense a freak product and the digi-cam look is a reaction to the middle-of-the road graphics we see in all the mainstream titles - it's meant to be brash and to stand out. It's a little bit arty in that sense ..but not in some extreme, indigestible way. I mean seriously: if the KL2 look is too far off the beaten path for the mainstream then it really is a sad state of affairs we're in :hmm:

But of course , i also can't wait to see just at what cost did this Need to 'stand out' will lead them , afterall , you can't wish to be loved by the mainstream by being something that the mainstream just don't like , or even understand ...

Yes , i have to be pessimistic ...

But I think if enough users want the option to alter the amount of it, they should be allowed to say so without having utterly ridiculous analogies thrown in their direction in a pejorative sense.

Yes ... and i still don't see enough people complaining about it ...

[joe the janitor]

Seriously though , are you guys just full on exagerations or what ? because the grainy filters and shaky cameras ? ... i barely notice them , i mean , not in the way you all seem to describe it anywya ...

Unless of course , this game was designed to suit the schizophrenics , that i'll understand ...
I'm right there with you.... Wait, what?!