DX:HR - Eidos steals art from Raven Software! Just MY opinion...

[AbelardLindsay]

...

[Zakka]

I really regret that I read this. So to my fellow forummembers: don't, waste of time.

[Zakka]

You are obviously trolling, no need.

[K.Karisma]

I really regret that I read this. So to my fellow forummembers: don't, waste of time.

I felt some quite valid points were made actually, although a few judgements were made without sufficient knowledge of the game itself to make those judgements. At the end of the day, there isn't much we can do. And we don't really know anything, outside a trailer, a few details in previews, we're pretty much clueless as to plot etc. I obviously hope this installment will be a worthy addition to DX, but we're all pretty powerless tbh, it's in EM's hands.

[Tecman]

Now, before this post is deleted by Eidos admins, how about if somebody has any ideas what intelligent gamers should do on the fact of our utter statistical insignificance compared to console kids?


Stop being gamers? If this stuff (tendency of ideas and designs to bleed into other projects, character over-simplifications, brand stremlining) bothers you, you should consider finding a new hobby maybe? I mean, obviously you're longing for the olden days, but they're gone, mate.

Also I'm confused how you can say "Big macho guys beat the hell out of other big macho guys, leather-clad female buttocks, explosions, flashy gadgets, cool spaceship-looking jets, etc" and then go around and push Singularity.

And I'm surprised you mentioned Q4 when talking about "stolen stuff" but didn't mention Assassin's Creed 2's dual hidden blades. Which probably didn't do that first. And neither did Q4 for cybernetic arms. :) Sometimes correlation does not imply causation, and sometimes people just use other people's ideas and add their own twist. Creativity is sometimes defined as stealing from others but masking it enough to seem fresh. :)

(did a couple of edits)

[Jerion]

Hey, didn't some other game come up with cybernetic arms? I coulda sworn there was one, came out back around 2000 or so..."Deus" something or other.

Ideas bleed over. Context varies.

"Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is non-existent. And don’t bother concealing your thievery - celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: “It’s not where you take things from - it’s where you take them to."
— Jim Jarmusch

[loke13]

That's precisely the case.
But note than nobody rebutted "golden hexagons, cybernetic arms" point.
I just don't think anybody cared.


There will be those who think Deus Ex:HR is a watered down by-product the "holy" Deus Ex. While others have faith that it has what it takes to be just as good as Deus Ex 1 or at the very least be better than Deus Ex 2. Oh and I disagree with most of your points about the trailer. Despite it being a hype trailer it still held a fair amount of plot that got you thinking about the game as a whole.

[qJohnnyp]

And speaking of Raven - they are going to release "Singularity" soon. And this game I definitely going to buy. At least because they don't play hype-mongering elitist card.


So you also bought the latest Wolfenstein? Haven't you noticed how that was consolised and oriented at 13 year olds?

[Tecman]

And sometimes you need to modify your promotional material to capture a broader audience. Bring in people with pretty things and explosions (it's true, the trailer is designed that way, but it DOES have subtle information if you pay attention). Then when you have their attention, you show them what DX is about - which EM kind of failed to do until now by denying us seeing the game in motion, but oh well. However, if you're too concerned about the game not being a 1:1 transition of old game mechanics and stylization and the (true) fact about some stuff being designed for today's generation while at least trying to design it over the idea of multiple problem solutions and roaming, of course you'll be mad and should just forget about the project.

Honestly, just wait until EM shows us gameplay, see if the visual content and ideas bleeding bothers you too much over whatever degree of DX-style gameplay they manage to retain. Then make your choice.

edit: Oh, and if you're so concerned about golden hexes, does that mean Quake is ripping off Hex-based games? Or hundreds of other titles that use them? I personally think you're overblowing that particular bit out of proportions since tons of games use it, it's just a shape, plus their theme is much more golden triangle oriented. :) And the golden color has an entirely different source which has been explained over and over and over and over again. Sometimes something looking similar is just something looking similar, don't do the mistake of conspiracy theorists shaping correclations into causations. Rather, argue your points from a "simplification" angle than a "rip-off" angle.

[beastosterone]

Not sure on the stealing from Raven bit.

But everything else you said is, obviously, spot on. Ever so slowly everyone has been dumbed-down to a childs' level. Old school gamers, multiplayer pros, console casuals, PC tweakers - through sheer bombardment of what people want you to think is "good" and "cool" for the past 7 years has subconsciously, slowly but surely, forced the weak minded among us to change their beliefs and even go so far as to defend them. They get offended when you point out what they find fun is borderline retarded, so, they rebel.

As for what real gamers should do... posts like these all over the internet do wonders. Intelligent people gain steam from them. Their thoughts are re-ignited, re-confirmed. People that for years who have been scratching their heads as to why Halo and Call of Duty 512 and Red Dead Regeneration are heralded as some sort of success in game design are reminded that they aren't wrong - the majority of everyone ELSE is.

And, just between us, keep your eyes open for a game news/review site ran by people that aren't inept at games or impressed by flashing screens and scripted explosions and deaths - and have the balls to stand for intelligence once more.

[Tecman]

Honestly, most of "real" gamers either still play old titles, find a niche genre that still gets releases that cater to them or have abandoned the hobby. Which is what you should do instead of wasting time ranting about it.

Deal with it, game development is much more expensive today, so you need to bring in everyone and the kitchen sink if you want to make ends meet AND push an AAA title, this includes Raven. The only alternative is worse-looking but more old-school designed indie titles.

Compared to DX:HR, where even though developers deliberately hide info, anyone with half a brain can predict and describe entire setting. Talk about form and substance.
Right, now you're projecting. When I see concrete evidence of them being dumb about the content (I'm talking about characters and story), I'll shift my view. And no, Barrett's lines aren't enough. Right now I can't do that. Right now all we can do is either claim the glass is half-full or half-empty from our experiences and opinions, unfortunately.

It's true though that EM have kind of made this mess by creating hype, then showing us visual information but not much substance, and what little we get we get from a 3-rd party (reviews).

[Tecman]

Yep, projecting. And you could have just said it more plainly that you just don't like the transhumanism angle in the "main conflict" from what we've been told and it would have been a stronger statement than your previous posts. Which is fine, I happen to like it. :) It lets you view broader topics like division of haves and have-nots, the question of what is human and what is not (compare a non-augmented moral monster to a heavily-augmented saint - a bit cartoony I agree, but still better than most videogames), the nature of mass-thinking and marketing an idea as well as products and how you can manipulate viewpoints etc... I mean, DX had "ALL CONSPIRACIES ARE TRUE OMG". How would you take that if you read as a marketing point?

So if it's not so hard to make a good story, why are there so many bad ones? Oh right, there are many more factors here. And the game (if they're not lying, which you believe they flat out are? Or am I reading your posts wrong, if so please correct me on this) had a long pre-production period where they sorted out the skeleton of the plotline and the dialogue, so it's not an afterthought or "industrial approach to storytelling", but it will boil down to writing quality, longetivity, relevance and simply if "you like it or not". I just don't like you throwing absolutes around, that's all.

And mate, the original DX was a "mish-mash of old cyberpunk and postcyberpunk works ("Neuromancer", "Altered Carbon", "Snow Crash", "Matrix", "Bladerunner", GITS, etc" sugarcoated with conspiracy theories taken apart and reassembled to suit their narrative. Don't be silly. :) The main story itself wasn't as brilliant as some claim through sugar-coating, but the way they told it (multiple exposition, so you had the main string with the possible differences in details and then you had the written stuff that made it look deeper than it actually was) and the thought that went into it was shown in details - these just don't show up in a trailer designed to MARKET the game. You're asking to be served with details that come (or may not come, I'm not delusional) with the final product.

I may be willing to forgive some simplification to get a fun videogame that's a bit better in narrative than most things and has gameplay mechanics I like - I mean broad mechanics, not detail mechanics - gameplay mechanics I may not outright like but am fine with and perhaps even gameplay mechanics that I don't like, but as long as you're willing to adapt and try it first to see if it works... Don't be so goddamn absolute - just because someone says "regenerating health" or "cover system" doesn't necesserily mean it will be CoD and GoW-style gameplay, just as it doesn't necesserily mean it will work beautifully together and everything is peachy. Again, half-empty and half-full. I'm being cautious but a bit blindly optimistic while keeping in mind it could all still fall apart, you're jumping to conclusions way too much - some have better reasons than others, granted. It's just too sensationalistic: Oh no, they're stealing ideas from other people! Like everyone that's ever done anything ever! Sometimes it just happens without them knowing, and sometimes it's intentional! Next on Fox News, the weather!

"And, to remind you, neither DX1 nor DX2 didn't have H+ faction or something like that." So what?

[Badmaker]

This topic is useless. All developers find inspirations everywhere, even in other games.

[Tecman]

This is just guesswork, and I'm presenting it as such, but to me it seems he's just trying to explain his fears and trying to spin them by adding on some visual bleeding examples and general knowledge about the gaming industry trying to expand its audience by simplification and streamlining, thus giving them more weight (and is actually complaining about the gaming industry doing something similar, except with narrative and substance). He happens to be right at those points, it's just business, but trying to present them as factual absolutes and evidence to something not completely related. And you can still do business while retaining some sort of integrity, it's just that it's much much much much much much easier to simplify and cash in the check.

He's also (probably) been burned too many times by previous projects he cared about, well so have I. I just didn't care about the details SO MUCH. The way I usually try to explain why doing this is silly is by giving example of George Lucas and the prequels, where he spent too much time trying to explain little details like the nature of the Force where no-one actually cared about it that much, yet breaking the narrative beyond the state of repair and having human interactions break down to the point where it isn't even comic-book-level (the "romance" between Anakin and Padme, for example).

I'd still like to hear his thoughts, but I'd wish if he'd shape them not to be too absolute. Let him talk about his fears. I mean, I didn't remember about Q4 and I laughed when I watched the video, so there's that, thanks. :) Oh, and if I'm doing the same mistake, please let me know! Sometimes I can't analyze my own writing. :)

[El_Bel]

This post was stupid and a waste of time. I dont even have to rebuke it. I agree with Zakka, a waste of time.

[MechBFP]

You are obviously trolling, no need.

Indeed.

[MechBFP]

You suck at trolling, FYI.

[xsamitt]

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

[FrankCSIS]

No comments on the "stealing" part, which is pointless. The dumbing down, we have our impressions on it, and they will be confirmed/denied when it comes out.

I do however share the worry of too-sleek a story that will probably be devoid of actual cyberpunk. Bellette's definition of cyberpunk, in one of the recent interviews, was appalling really. Most importantly though, and I've said it already, I just don't see disfunctional people in a disfunctional society in the footage we've seen. I didn't see awkward. I didn't see ill-fiting. I see technology as the focus point, while cyberpunk and sci-fi in general has always used technology as an excuse to explore and develop on the human psyche. So while I'm still waiting to pronounce myself on any of the gameplay elements, I'm already almost convinced it's not going to be cyberpunk.

[Sabretooth]

You suck at trolling, FYI.

I disagree, he's pretty good at this.

[Pinky_Powers]

The topic boils down to several facts.

1. on gameplay level:
- dumbed-down cover shooter gameplay, cross of AC2 and ME2


I'm going to stop you there. Cover system (whether your like them or not) does not equal "dumbed down." Not by any stretch of the imagination. And also, steath-take-downs that only work if your target does not see you before you get to him is the opposite of dumbed downed.

You sir, need to sit in a quiet place and meditate on your "opinions".

[Ashpolt]

And also, steath-take-downs that only work if your target does not see you before you get to him is the opposite of dumbed downed.

The PC Gamer preview mentioned that takedowns work whether you're seen or not, so you can just run up to your opponent, hit a key and they die. They're not stealth only.

[sonicsidewinder]

Power kill-joy.

Though he could be right.

Cover system (whether your like them or not) does not equal "dumbed down."

I second that. Splinter Cell 1 - 4 with it's cover system. Hardly dumbed down.

[hem dazon 90]

tl:dr


You fail at making a point

[Pinky_Powers]

The PC Gamer preview mentioned that takedowns work whether you're seen or not, so you can just run up to your opponent, hit a key and they die. They're not stealth only.

Yeah, but I've heard in one of these E3 interviews that it does require you to reach them unseen. They specifically said, if the enemy turns and sees you, then the take-down option won't work.

So... either PC Gamer didn't understand what they saw (which is probable), or the EM team doesn't know the game very well or is lying.

[Kodaemon]

I was hoping for some delicious plagiarism scandal, instead I got a crazy troll. Disappointing thread is disappointing.

[Ilves]

http://static.vi.be/pictures/style/19539/csstheme_mast_Haze.jpg


Sue 'em all, I say.


I do however share the worry of too-sleek a story that will probably be devoid of actual cyberpunk. Bellette's definition of cyberpunk, in one of the recent interviews, was appalling really. Most importantly though, and I've said it already, I just don't see disfunctional people in a disfunctional society in the footage we've seen. I didn't see awkward. I didn't see ill-fiting. I see technology as the focus point, while cyberpunk and sci-fi in general has always used technology as an excuse to explore and develop on the human psyche. So while I'm still waiting to pronounce myself on any of the gameplay elements, I'm already almost convinced it's not going to be cyberpunk.

Cyberpunk died with the turn of the century. Qualifying the first Deus Ex as cyberpunk is debatable. I certainly don't consider HR to be, save some 'references'.

[KSingh77]

Looks like everyone in the Hive is getting high off of Mantel's nector.

Mmmmmmmm

[Kodaemon]

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

[Pinky_Powers]

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

The Simpsons did it! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1cGiEw5yLo)

[hem dazon 90]

south park, while fail describes this situation perfectly.

[neilthecellist]

You don't get it, do you? Look, it is not so hard to "make a good story". It is a question of money, just like CGI. Just hire some sci-fi writer or two, they will make you "compelling story". That can be done even after game is 90% completed. Industrial approach to storytelling. We see such pre-fabricated stories by droves, summer blockbuster stuff. Cool, flashy, plot twists, cultural references, etc. But it is not a narrative, nor it is a substance. It is plotline. Going from point A to point B. Eidos assured us with words that they are not going to have any direct connections to DX1 narrative. They shown us with style and exposition (13-year-olds-oriented exposition with leather-clad buttocks, I might add), that it is something completely different. So, either they had some unique narrative message that we don't know about (highly unlikely), or we will simply get mish-mash of old cyberpunk and postcyberpunk works ("Neuromancer", "Altered Carbon", "Snow Crash", "Matrix", "Bladerunner", GITS, etc), which we all are perfectly familiar with, with H+ magazine ad-style agitprop to give this a sense of deepness. Their primary topic is "controversial bio-mods" and their primary reference source is Humanity Plus. That's barely the Templar/anti-Templar plotline from DX2, which was THE weakest, and wasn't even present in DX1. If I wanted such "narrative", I would simply go to H+ sites and read their forums. And, to remind you, neither DX1 nor DX2 didn't have H+ faction or something like that.

What is your point in posting all of this? To prove that the "good ol' days" were so much better? I'm not a Luddite. Just because Mass Effect 2 stole / borrowed some idea from another game doesn't make it any less invalid for me. It's a sellable game. I'm probably going to buy it. I'm probably going to play it. And I'm probably going to enjoy it.

Whatever personal problems you have, kid, take it somewhere else.

The transhumanism argument isn't only seen in Deus Ex, much like ANY controversial topic it's been discussed and debated across many diverse mediums, such as literature, movies, video games, tv shows, debate tournaments, whatever.

Actually, why are you even trolling? First you had something potentially good going in the first post, and now you just sound desperate for attention. You've taken singular points in your arguments and then expanded it to say that your whole point is right. Actually, wait, what is your main point anymore?

[jtr7]

Sometimes, like with Thief and Deus Ex, the material isn't stolen but a deliberate tribute. I was introduced to many movies and books and games through these references, and there was no trying to get away with something going on.

[Serendipitous]

Humanity "stole" the concept of gold hexagons from bees.

Edit: Also the Borg from Star Trek.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

the pc gamer preview mentioned that takedowns work whether you're seen or not, so you can just run up to your opponent, hit a key and they die. They're not stealth only.

Yay!

AVP conga lines!!!111

[Dead-Eye]

OP: you are retard. Can someone lock this?

[mr_cyberpunk]

I recommend everyone be sued for using a hexagonal tile system for their graphics!

Sid Meire how dare you ripoff Deus Ex 3! lol

btw Sid Meire totally redeemed himself. Bout time he stepped up and showed us the sort of designer he is.

[Great_Ragnarok]

I think your criticisms are unfair at this stage.
The trailer was a teaser, it maybe that they didn't
want to give any spoilers to the story.
So it's still very likely that they have invested a lot in to the story.
remember the original was released in 2000!
a lot has happened in science and politics since then, so there are a lot
of stuff to inspire a gritty dark story for the developers.

[Marses]

I really regret that I read this. So to my fellow forummembers: don't, waste of time.

seconded

[FrankCSIS]

Cyberpunk died with the turn of the century. Qualifying the first Deus Ex as cyberpunk is debatable. I certainly don't consider HR to be, save some 'references'.

And yet it taps on its subjects, on the surface, but only uses the sleek, nice and tidy aspects of it. It's style over substance all over again, which is what mainly worries me about how sleek the trailer's themes seemed to be.

If you keep the cool gadgets of sci-fi, but remove all of the awkwardness, all of the deranged and the bizarre, all of the ill-fitting, what you are left with is a technological expo with a generic narrative attached to it. And I'm really hoping a DX successor is more than that. And no, throwing some greek philosophy in the midst of it does not count as additional layers.

[Pinky_Powers]

And yet it taps on its subjects, on the surface, but only uses the sleek, nice and tidy aspects of it. It's style over substance all over again, which is what mainly worries me about how sleek the trailer's themes seemed to be.

If you keep the cool gadgets of sci-fi, but remove all of the awkwardness, all of the deranged and the bizarre, all of the ill-fitting, what you are left with is a technological expo with a generic narrative attached to it. And I'm really hoping a DX successor is more than that. And no, throwing some greek philosophy in the midst of it does not count as additional layers.

It looks to me like the tech philosophies go quite deep. This concept of transhumanism is a very cyberpunk thing, and it has left the world of Deus Ex in political chaos. Your character's main drive is based on a personal assault by technology; a technology that has left him "awkward" and misfitting. There's a very mean Ghost in the Shell feel to the story we've glimpsed. I can't see how you can claim "style over substance" here.

[FrankCSIS]

I just think the theme of "should we get technological or not" is empty by default, in a genre where technology was never the focus point. Debating whether or not a fork is a weapon based on its potential use is philosophical nonsense that never amounts to anything.

The social repercussions of technology is not half as interesting as the social awkwardness that has brought up technology in the first place. People, for instance, who study the effect of the internet on communication are missing the entire point, and ought to be locked in a room where they can jerk off togheter until the end of times.

What is also of interest is that technology has always served as thin layer of veneer to polish up the illusion of civilisation, the idea that we are mentally-fitted and well-adjusted, at least as a collectivity. Cyberpunk has been debunking this myth, using extreme technology has a proof of how ****ed-up we have remained, despite the wonders of advancement. Phil K Dick's obssession with WW2 is a sure indicator of this. Most of his work is based on the idea that in modern history, deemed civilised, the most civilised and developped of worlds has turned into utter chaos in a matter of months. Technology didn't spawn this. It just managed to conceal it until the veneer wore off.

But I'm being harsh and I should hold off the dogs until we see more. Realistically, I shouldn't expect them to release the truly deranged stuff in a trailer built to generate hype. And so I shall wait.

[Laokin]

Yeah, but I've heard in one of these E3 interviews that it does require you to reach them unseen. They specifically said, if the enemy turns and sees you, then the take-down option won't work.

So... either PC Gamer didn't understand what they saw (which is probable), or the EM team doesn't know the game very well or is lying.

They specifically said nothing of that sort. It was described in very good detail and explained in these very words "The challenge is getting close, the kill is the reward."

He also said your likely to die if you get noticed first, but that it was very much possible to do.

He very specifically stated the complete opposite of what you proclaimed he said.

Either way, this doesn't fit into the "dumbed" down argument either. Until you see if there is indeed a challenge in sneaking up to enemies remains to be seen, but it is confirmed fact that take downs work at the push of a button regardless of if you are covert or overt.

They did however mention that take downs require energy, so if you had no energy -- you wouldn't be able to do it till your pip came back.

There is depth here.....

So the short version of what he said was this, take downs can be done front or back, but you are likely to die first if they aren't covert, and if you don't die first, if there is more than one enemy, you are toast anyway. So this makes it an unpractical noob weapon and really narrows it's specific use down to picking off guys alone -- in which even the holy grail DX was one button from the back.

Furthermore, how is this different then Knife kills in CS or TF, TF:C, or TF2?

I just don't see any validity in these "Game is dumbed down" arguments.

[Jerion]

Furthermore, how is this different then Knife kills in CS or TF, TF:C, or TF2?


Or BF:BC2?

Or Mirror's Edge (disarming takedown specifically)?

[Ashpolt]

^^ They're all straight out action games. If we're going to say "they did it, so it's OK" we're opening ourselves up to a lot of problems indeed.

Also, in all those games the kills / takedowns took place in first person.

[Jerion]

^^ They're all straight out action games. If we're going to say "they did it, so it's OK" we're opening ourselves up to a lot of problems indeed.

Also, in all those games the kills / takedowns took place in first person.

Isn't one fourth of Deus Ex- and Human Revolution- an action game? Isn't a takedown by definition an action move? Would it not make sense to say "they did it and people liked it, so it's OK" for action moves?

First person, Third person. Bleh. I'm so sick of the freaking topic. It's possible to make both immersive. Wait and see till the damned gameplay gets here. Until then I take my leave.

[Ashpolt]

If a good part of the rest of the game (at least a quarter, possibly more) wasn't an RPG, then yes.

That said, I don't really have a problem with one-button kills for takedowns to be honest - it makes perfect sense to me that, if armed with a big blade, facing an opponent who's not got a blade, and I'm close enough to hit him with said blade, my hit is going to be fatal. I just wish it was done in first person. And done with the minimum of fuss - I get the feeling that if they're going to the trouble of showing things in third person, these "cool moves" are going to be extravagant, over the top and unecessarily violent.

[Pinky_Powers]

They specifically said nothing of that sort. It was described in very good detail and explained in these very words "The challenge is getting close, the kill is the reward."

I swear to god one of the interviews stated it the way I wrote. I have no idea which one though. :scratch:

[Unstoppable]

If you're talking about this art
http://media.photobucket.com/image/deus%20ex%203%20hexagon/DXeXodus/DX%20-%20custom%20wallpapers/DX3hexagonwallpapersample.jpg

I don't think you have sufficient proof to say it was ripped straight from Quake 4. First off inspiration for things like this come from Nature like bee honeycombs and whoever started to draw Hexagons wether it was Greeks or Egyptians or earlier then that I'm not sure.

To say though that they got it from Quake 4 is silly because this is something that Nature already does, and everyone gets inspiration and cpoies from Nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagon

Bio-augmentation? Check. Bio augmentation was done in Deus Ex and probably games before it like System Shock and other PC games or real life. Wether it be prostetic limbs or any novels that talk about the future of science and human interaction. To say this was copied from Quake 4 again is incorrect.

"Limb clinic"? Check. Deus Ex, real life, not Quake 4.

Involuntary cybernetic arms installation? Check. Ever seen Mortal Kombat 2? Jax had his arms augmented. This isn't something that Montreal is going to rip off of Quake 4, they may play that game and get inspiration, this does not mean they copied directly.

Copyright, anyone? The industry draws inspiration from itself just look at the evolution of games after Deus Ex. Star Wars: KOTOR, Mass Effect, and many more copied and evolved off of Deus Ex which I can say drew heavily from Thief, System Shock, and Baldur's Gate.

It really comes down to your perspective whether or not you believe they copied directly and or are dumbing the game down. For me I understand they are spending money and need to make money, so some things will be made easier but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

As for the game being a cover oriented shooter then you're not really paying attention. If as the game evolves taking cover becomes a major part then so be it but as of now it is just really a minor thing. More focus is being played on as they said themselves the four pillars.

Hacking, stealth, social, and combat gameplay. Taking cover would fall under combat and stealth, there's still social and hacking opportunities. I would say at this point if you really don't like the direction the game is headed in then don't waste your time with it. Gameplay videos aren't out yet anyway.

Come early 2011 I'll be playing the game, not sure what you're going to be doing, maybe you should invest more time posting in the Singularity boards. I don't see anyone complaining about how Raven ripped off World War 2 stuff for their latest Wolfenstein game because it's not really something that is trademarked just like that honeycomb thing. Enjoy the game and stop focusing on things you don't like I would say.

[Pinky_Powers]

Do you feel better now, Unstoppable? :D All very important points for that strange kid to hear, but I have a feeling you're wasting your time and energy. He's deep in his own council, and utterly demented by it.

[Viktoria]

I added 'Just my Opinion' to thread title...

[Ilves]

^ Might as well have altered the entire title... Valid concerns are made in the original post, but the accusations of plagiarism are baseless and silly. Even if HR makes plenty use of Sci-Fi tropes & conventions, even directly borrows from earlier movies and games, Quake is hardly the first thing that comes to mind.

I swear to god one of the interviews stated it the way I wrote. I have no idea which one though. :scratch:

Something to the same extent is mentioned here (http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/109/1096081p3.html):

[...] a sequence that takes place from a third-person perspective to show it all off. You don't actually have control during takedowns like this – they're meant to be a sort of reward for those who spend the time to sneak up behind enemies undetected. Though the lethal or nonlethal takedown is automated, there's still risk. If an enemy sees the takedown they'll start shooting, and Jensen has an energy gauge that must recharge, preventing him from spamming takedowns in rapid succession.

[xsamitt]

Same here US.I have set the release date as the date for my new PC build,and that won't change no matter what, pending of course I'm still breathing and living.