What if Garrett has to infiltrate somewhere very cold

[BigCole]

Then his water arrows shouldn't work right? Just a random musing I had. :nut:

[jtr7]

Not if he keeps the water crystals near his fire crystals, or if the "pocket plane" theory is in effect (the same concept that keeps his fire crystals perfectly viable in the rain and after a dip in the canals). But skipping that, his moss arrows shouldn't work either, and his gas arrows would still snuff flames but not clean up blood.

[kabatta]

I agree that his moss arrow should not work, but the water ones should. I imagine that the impact turns them in a temporary liquid form from the solid one.

[jtr7]

It's more of a release of high pressure from within a shell as there's a lot more material. If the TDS crystals are any indication, it's definitely a shell with compacted material within, which is why the D&D "pocket plane" theory is invoked.

[Fatherwoodsie]

Not if he keeps the water crystals near his fire crystals, or if the "pocket plane" theory is in effect (the same concept that keeps his fire crystals perfectly viable in the rain and after a dip in the canals). But skipping that, his moss arrows shouldn't work either, and his gas arrows would still snuff flames but not clean up blood.

the water arrows would turn to vapor. maybe ice arrows would take the place of oil flasks

[Hypevosa]

I would assume water is still released, though Ice following shortly after is not a far stretch of thought.

Look at it this way - the water arrows are already a solid form of matter as they are crystals, Yet upon striking a surface with enough force they create/release/turn into water. I wouldn't expect the temperature to have an effect on the crystal's ability to do that, though it would eventually take effect on the created/released water.

Now, a really good question, is are the crystals able to be melted/sublimed into a liquid/gaseous form? Or would adding that energy be akin to striking them against a surface and the energy would cause the elemental release/synthesis? If I can liquefy them, what happens if I mix the resultant liquids?

EDIT: Now, if this were TDM, then the water arrows would contain ice, since they don't have elemental crystals but a blue blub filled with water. But that's because of not being able to use intellectual properties and whatnot.

[jtr7]

TDM is certainly open to having both frozen water bulbs and antifreeze bulbs and alcohol and oil and any liquid in those bulbs.

I would also be open to Chaos magic forming different crystals than the four of common nature, but only if there's a good reason for it to be possible without resurrecting the dead nature guardians or too-conveniently creating new ones.

I like the crystals being impervious to anything but whatever technique is used to convert them to be used the way they are. I'd still like to see how the common people use them in daily life. Alchemy may be able to do something, but we've seen no evidence of it yet, in the sense of continuity, so it would have to be rare. I still like the pocket plane idea with a shell of solid aether, and the contents not solid at all, except the solidity found in the earth crystal.

[Fatherwoodsie]

we can mix isopropyl/acetone arrow heads to knock people out cold.

[jtr7]

Although T2X had the concept, LGS originally planned on having cold temperatures that would freeze water and cause who knows what else, as well as a more flammable world, but they dropped the idea for whatever reasons, and apparently it wasn't seriously considered enough for even TDS. I'm not a fan of the concept of arrows that freeze entire opponents into shatterable statues, especially if they can thaw and be back to normal, instead of at least suffering Carbonite freezing sickness, but no, it's just too much like a power-up, and it'd be better if the frozen area was limited to an area no larger than a head, and could freeze a foot to the floor, but it's too much then. Garrett should never have wizard powers without a wizard's help late in the game, and the four elements should be the only ones that occur naturally without a chaos god's influence creating other things.

I could see moss carpets not spreading out as much, and on ice and stone, it would make it more challenging. The older titles had slippery ice (TDP/Gold) and crunching snow (TMA) to traverse, and careful placement of smaller moss carpets would be challenging. I would hope that it could be done with a single toggle that modifies the radius of effect. What would be challenging would be to have a fire arrow blow a crater in snow and ice. I'm afraid it would have to be at preset points with the unadvanced tech for such things even today. Melting ice and snow or releasing steam clouds from fire explosions on water in various states... There's setting moss carpets ablaze or growing them with water--although, if water crystals can grow the moss, then so should rain, puddles, the tide (though a good excuse not to have ocean water work would be saltwater), and sewers, and heavy fog, to some extent, and maybe firing a moss crystal under specific conditions could create a mat for floating burning crates... :p For the mean people, firing a moss arrow at someone's face, followed shortly by a water arrow, would wrap their head and chest in a smothering, clinging, living green mummy-wrapping, and blind them, too.


It's not a popular idea for some reason, but vaporising holy water is a concept not even B-movie directors have touched. A fog cloud of holy water mist... Holy water may only be splashed to be effective, I guess. :p




But overall, for real, I'd like to see no one surprised in-game by what crystals can do. The devs should only treat them as power-ups in the respect of placement in missions to help prepare the player, but the fiction should totally support their existence, as with TDP/Gold did so much more than the other two, even though TMA added more concept details, and TDS forgot almost all of it. (Only characters who would have never heard a noisemaker arrow before should not know what the sound is. For Keepers and thieves and others who would be familiar with them, they should never act like it's a strange unknown.)

[Yaphy]

This thread gets me thinking. The moss in cold places could be mixed with snow so we see that the moss is frosen. The frosen moss doesn't make it more silent. It makes it louder to walk. Like walking on cornflakes or something. (Just an idea)

The water arrow could replace the TDS oil flask. But only when it's cold outside. At first the water will react normal and could possibly form a puddle that would slowly turn to ice. If you plan it well you can make a stairway icy and lure a guard to it. It should knock him out good. :)

What happens if you shoot a fire arrow into water? Should it explode, burn on the surface or just drop to the bottom of the river/sea/lake/well?

[jtr7]

I think a fire arrow in water should depend on velocity and depth. I think a slow fire arrow in deep water should just slow down and float to the top, but a fire arrow into a puddle at any speed should pop or explode, and steam. A fire arrow that impacts beneath deep enough water should go "Whump!" and a big bubble of steam should rise up and hiss into the air. But I won't mind if it's the same old thing. A fire crystal arrowhead shouldn't snuff in water, but just be less effective.

[Hypevosa]

Firing a fire arrow into water would have a curious effect if we had the idea of the updraft created by the heat of the arrow head giving it a flat trajectory.

The heat of the arrow head would heat up the water immediately around it, causing the local water to be less dense than the surrounding water. This would create a bubble of water that would float upward due to being less dense, and it would influence the flight of the fire arrow with it. So if I shot a fire arrow at a 45 Degree angle into the water, One could assume that (assuming the arrow is normally heavy and would sink were it not for the heat) the arrow would fly in a parabola shape entering the water, coming out the other side at a slightly steeper angle due to being slowed down by water entry. Similarly the arrow dropped perpendicular to the water would sink for a ways, then turn and start to go back up, reaching the surface and flying out with the same speed it went in with. Firing an arrow underwater would cause a slow upward arc in the shot.

This would be a useless albeit fun time with the fire arrows and physics.

That's assuming the crystal can withstand the impact with the surface tension of the water and not release fire (maybe a lower velocity would mean enough of a lack of force that the crystal wouldn't break).

[Vae]

Then his water arrows shouldn't work right? Just a random musing I had. :nut:

Yes, they would.

The elemental crystals are magical in nature, and are not subject to exactly the same energetic reactions as the non-magical elements. Magical water that is stored in crystallized form releases its' energy when the solid magical crystal is shattered from sufficient force. Remember, THIEF is a magical universe, where elemental magic is common, and where the magical elemental planes of existence intersect very closely and elusively with the material plane (physical world), thus providing a unique form of naturally occurring elemental magic in the world.

[Saint Edgar]

cold area?... shooting the water arrow onto the ground to let it freeze and let people slip over it, like the oil from thief 3, that would be my idea to it