What is your favorite thief game? [Archive]

jtr7

05-16-2010, 01:57 PM

What Hamadriyad said.

TDP was the ground-breaker and world shaker and deepened my love and obsession and admiration and was even richer in the eerie and quaint and disturbing, and TMA was my first foray into The City and filling Garrett's boots and my life-changer and paradigm-shifter (which had the dual effect of making me want to play the first title, and left me wanting more about the third, before it finally came to us), while TDS was a disappointment for failing to add to the tradition and woo my heart, even if it's a good game, it wasn't good enough Thief.

And there are these:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=92532
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=1212237

And that's just in the Thief 4 forum. Sorry, there are dozens. Perhaps you could rephrase the question to keep it fresh?

Vae

05-16-2010, 02:59 PM

Hard question. I can't compare TDP ad TMA. I like both equally I guess. I like TDS too. But first games are better. I can't vote.

I agree. I cannot accurately vote on this poll with such limited options.

And there are these:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=92532
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=1212237

...and these.

How would you rate THIEF: The Dark Project/Gold? (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=97504)
How would you rate THIEF: The Metal Age? (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=97503)
How would you rate THIEF: Deadly Shadows? (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=97500)

Fatherwoodsie

05-16-2010, 04:35 PM

thief 1 by a hair.

clearing

05-16-2010, 06:30 PM

TDP my favorite.

glyph07

05-17-2010, 01:04 AM

I'd say TMA but just 'cuase I've got nice rememberings linked to it. Recently I've played TMA and TDP again and I must say that I really liked the dark mood of TDP. Anyway, it's a taugh call, what I can say for sure is that TDS is definetely in the last position on my chart.

Platinumoxicity

05-17-2010, 02:42 AM

You forgot the option "I haven't played all 3" so some games in the series (Mainly TDS) is going to get biased votes because the players haven't gotten the chance to experience all 3. :(

I vote for Thief 2. Thief 1 had more eerie atmosphere and it really showed gritty underworld of the Thief universe, but Thief 2 was best as "a game" because of all the gameplay improvements and new features, plus the higher focus on human AI.

BG_HHaunt

05-17-2010, 02:47 AM

I would go for TDP because I like the story and most of the levels but I also like the normal non-surreal levels of Thief 2 almost that much. There should always be a mix of both fantasy and normal thieving.

jtr7

05-17-2010, 05:05 AM

LGS were the geniuses, and had the right mix of employees and workplace culture.

TafferTim

05-17-2010, 10:25 AM

I chose TDP with a caveat - the extra levels in Thief Gold are amazing and really make TDP like the "director's cut". You can tell that they took their time with the extra levels, and it really adds a lot of fun (and playing time) to the game. I stalked eBay for a long time before I got a copy of Gold, but it was worth it. I hope everyone has the chance to play it!

imperialreign

05-17-2010, 02:13 PM

Been a fan of the series since TDP first hit the shelves and I picked up a copy cause it looked so much different from everything else at the time . . .

Although, I'd have to say TMA is probably my favorite. TDP and TDS tie equally for second.

s guy

05-27-2010, 04:19 PM

I agree. I cannot accurately vote on this poll with such limited options.

...and these.

How would you rate THIEF: The Dark Project/Gold? (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=97504)
How would you rate THIEF: The Metal Age? (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=97503)
How would you rate THIEF: Deadly Shadows? (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=97500)

Oops, didn't see those in the search. I like how for the ratings, the curves are really obvious. Thief 1/2 are both positive-exponential, and thief 3 bulges in the middle, at the top, and at the low end. What surprised me, though, was how soothe the curved were, with no jumps at all.

Edit: Ha, this sparked lots of Bumps!

SashaVorobyov

06-09-2010, 07:45 AM

My favourite game is Thief: Deadly Shadows...
I very like this game.

Vae

06-09-2010, 02:33 PM

My favourite game is Thief: Deadly Shadows...
I very like this game.

I believe that says it all right there. Very reflective...;)

SashaVorobyov

06-10-2010, 01:06 AM

Yes, you are right. ^_^
xD

Platinumoxicity

06-10-2010, 03:12 AM

My favourite game is Thief: Deadly Shadows...
I very like this game.

I suppose you have played the others too? You said (or tried to say) "I like this game very much." -not "I like this game more than the others." ;)

Edit: Oops I'm sorry, you already said on a different thread that you haven't played the others. :( I hope you didn't vote yet.

Edit again: Of course you voted. Bad, very bad... ****

lastdual

06-10-2010, 05:51 AM

TDP remains my favorite, even if some aspects were tightened up in TMA. Besides being so groundbreaking, Thief 1 had a stronger scare factor. I liked the more prominent element of the supernatural, and the levels just offered the most variety of pretty much any stealth game since. So many memorable moments...

Reaper200

06-11-2010, 04:14 AM

I voted Deadly Shadows simply because thats the first Thief game i played and that which introduced me to the extraordinary world of Thief. After completing it several times i did try and play the others but i never could get completely in to them seeing as how the graphics\animations were so outdated (I'm a bit of a graphics whore). I'm sure that if I'd played TDP or TMA first then they'd be on the top of my list. I mean i still play Morrowind rather than Oblivion despite the graphics simply because that game was the first title in the series I played (plus Oblivion has no atmosphere).

massimilianogoi

06-11-2010, 06:46 AM

Thief - Deadly Shadows, of course :D It was my first Thief, and the best.

xAcerbusx

06-11-2010, 10:15 PM

Thief II is definitely my favorite. More burglary and cool steampunkish technology, less zombie slaying and... (thank the Builder) NO BURRICKS!

...bloody things... :mad:

Deadly Shadows is a close second, though. I've played it more than any of the others because they finally had the good sense to add a third-person perspective, which I'd pined after ever since The Dark Project.

Viktoria

06-12-2010, 11:52 AM

I voted T2/Metal Age, but T1/Dark Project is also very loved. T3/DS was a complete and utter disappointment for me.

acridrose

06-20-2010, 03:55 PM

I voted T2/Metal Age, but T1/Dark Project is also very loved. T3/DS was a complete and utter disappointment for me.

I agree totally, and with little doubt place Thief 2 above Thief 1. It's very rare to have a sequel that delivers on so many levels, offering a refined experience whilst retaining everything that we loved about the original.

I love how negatively you feel towards T3DS, Vik! You describe it as if it were a failing student :D (but in all honesty, it really was pathetic in comparison to T1&2)

Latte

11-07-2010, 04:53 AM

I like Thief: Deadly Shadows the most so I voted for that, cause how it plays. I like wall-hugging, lock-picking, the bow and I feel it's much easier to move around in that game. Sure the missions aren't as fun and I miss some items but the rest really make up for it, in my experience. It's the best of the 3 games if you wanna mess around. If you could see me play the games I think it would be easier to understand.

2nd place is Thief: Dark Project, cause of the missions. Lord Bafford's Manor was a really nice start and many of the missions are so distinctive and memorable to me. My favorite mission in that game being Down in the Bonehoard. I played that for some time over and over on Expert. I guess I just really like going underground into tombs and all.

I'm one of those rare ones that played all games from the beginning and I still don't like Metal Age. I just found the levels too big and boring. I tried the game over and over giving it a chance but I still haven't gotten into it. The first mission in that game being one of the most boring of all Thief missions I have played. I came as far in that game to some robot child but I was still bored. I don't even like the look of things, it looking more modern and all.

GepardenK

11-07-2010, 05:54 AM

I kind of agree with Latte actually. Of course, TMA is a very good game, and I think TDS had way to many flaws. But TMA aslo go repetetive because the levels wasnt so distinctive. Therefore I go with TDP as my favorite of the three, it is the classic "thief" after all

maria22hzn

11-07-2010, 07:01 AM

confused :( (http://pete7hxwha.insanejournal.com/):( (http://markyxovan.blog.com/):( (http://plasticsurgeries-pitt.blogspot.com/)

TheWoodsieLord

11-08-2010, 02:20 AM

I gave my vote to TDS. The atmosphere feels great, and the story was epic. I have played the other two games many times, and they're great too... but the sneaking in TDS feels better (no Garrett in high heels).

And I love the look and feel of some locations, like the pagan sanctuary, the Kurshok citadel, and the Cradle.

Platinumoxicity

11-08-2010, 05:13 AM

but the sneaking in TDS feels better (no Garrett in high heels).

I suppose you too unbound the creep key completely from the keyboard options. :D

But even though the walk sounds were improved in TDS, (no more wooden shoes or silent running on wood and stone) I think the difference in volume of walking sounds on different floors was too narrow in TDS and it made it a bit tricky to tell how quiet you should move depending on how far your enemies were. Sometimes when you thought you were quiet enough, you actually weren't.

Thievingtaffer

11-08-2010, 01:50 PM

Gold is what puts TDP over TMA.

Hypevosa

11-08-2010, 02:09 PM

Gold is what puts TDP over TMA.

Surprisingly good point.

Rethinking it, I'd rank them:

1. TMA - TGOLD
2. TDP
3. TDS

Alas, we never got a TMA Gold.... *mourn*

zhunt

11-09-2010, 07:40 PM

massimilianogoi

11-09-2010, 07:48 PM

Thief 4 was by far the best game.
had superior graphics, storyline, mission, characters, locations, and atmosphere to the 3 previous games and was well worth the wait for the patient fans.
(what? a guy can hope cant he?)

TMA was second on my list behind the kick ass thief 4 by the way

Was?? Am I jumped instantly into the future??

Anyway, Thief 2 still rocks, all should hear the word of Karras, and death to the oppositors http://www.valmerwolf.com/minotaur/relics/golden_gear.jpg

maikaal

11-11-2010, 03:46 AM

I'm one of those rare ones that played all games from the beginning and I still don't like Metal Age. I just found the levels too big and boring. I tried the game over and over giving it a chance but I still haven't gotten into it. The first mission in that game being one of the most boring of all Thief missions I have played. I came as far in that game to some robot child but I was still bored. I don't even like the look of things, it looking more modern and all.

Always nice to see fellow taffers who give TMA what it deserves. And I for that matter will use this opportunity to bash TMA once again:
- no atmosphere
- wrong/bad level design
- lack of intriguing story
- robots

TheWoodsieLord

11-11-2010, 04:37 AM

Always nice to see fellow taffers who give TMA what it deserves. And I for that matter will use this opportunity to bash TMA once again:
- no atmosphere
- wrong/bad level design
- lack of intriguing story
- robots

Amen, comrade.

I loved TMA for the gameplay, but in TDP we got to explore so many interesting and mysterious areas, like the Bonehoard, Cragscleft, the Sealed section and the Lost city, while TMA has nothing half as spectacular.

And I despised the robots. It feels very stupid sneaking past a machine, and the cameras ruin the atmosphere very much (way to advanced for steampunk).

I don't know why everyone is attacking TDS because of the maps... yes, they were smaller, but they were filled with objects, interesting items, people. They had a soul. Take a look at the Cradle, that place beats the living crap out of any other level in the entire series. The only thing that really is TOO small are the city maps. TDS continued the TDP tradition of showing us something new. We learn a lot about the keepers, we encounter another culture (the Kurshok)...

TDP will always be the best in balancing steampunk and medieval elements, though.

Rek

11-11-2010, 08:50 AM

Amen, comrade.

And I despised the robots. It feels very stupid sneaking past a machine, and the cameras ruin the atmosphere very much (way to advanced for steampunk).

I agree with you in this point. I like steampunk but robots are to much for me and they don't fit me in thief world. But on the other side i had respect from these big robots and I was afraid of them, unlike the guards. I also think that TMA doesnt reach the atmosphere of TDP. However I voted for TMA after all, because there are better and more thiefy levels (except the last one which was horrible).

Hypevosa

11-11-2010, 12:38 PM

I thought the point of steampunk was to break science to the point where anything could be steam powered?

Lasers, giant flying ships, massive digging devices, steam fired guns, Garrett's mechanical eye - all these come to mind when I think of steampunk.

I think I was bothered most by the robots ability to actually differentiate sounds - there's no reason my footsteps should set it off when other mechanists could be walkin around. I can buy everything else under broken steampunk tech.

GepardenK

11-11-2010, 01:02 PM

I`ve think I said this before, but:

TDP had too much fantasy, especially during the beginning of the game. The early cragscleft/bonehoard combo, while good levels by themselves, is a bit much adventure horror for someone who just bought Thief expecting gameplay to be like in the Bafford`s manor demo.

TMA on the other hand felt lifeless in the long run because every level was the ol` steal and repeat. The few adventure levels actually present weren’t nearly in the same caliber as the ones from TDP. The robots are cool IMO, but they were present in way too many levels.

It is ironic then that the Thief game with the worst gameplay, Thief deadly shadows, actually was the one that was best paced between stealth and horror\adventure missions. Things never got old, except for the dark and guard filled "in between missions" city. Also, Shalebridge Cradle was a masterpiece

acridrose

11-15-2010, 04:54 PM

Always nice to see fellow taffers who give TMA what it deserves. And I for that matter will use this opportunity to bash TMA once again:
- no atmosphere
- wrong/bad level design
- lack of intriguing story
- robots

I don't even know where to begin with you, I couldn't disagree more (you best be trollin'!)... WRONG level design? Have you even played TMA? Or did you start in the wrong place with TDS?

DarknessFalls

11-15-2010, 07:56 PM

Heavy Rain

11-16-2010, 12:24 AM

I don't even know where to begin with you, I couldn't disagree more (you best be trollin'!)... WRONG level design? Have you even played TMA? Or did you start in the wrong place with TDS?

TMA does have WRONG level design, glaring example being Soulforge Cathedral. Many missions also had tons of large empty halls / places which didn't serve any purpose than to make the place / level appear unnecessary large.

Did it do swimmable water and NPC walking animations okay, though?

Swimmable areas were considerably toned down in T2..and on lower-end machines, some of the NPC walking animations of T3 appear more clunky / awkward than they really were.

Hypevosa

11-16-2010, 12:26 AM

I will never not be amused by super rubber spines though.

Hehehe... silly guards have no spines XD

ToMegaTherion

11-16-2010, 05:45 AM

Soulforge is a really horrible mission. Other than that, I'd be surprised if Dark Project has more "play density" than Metal Age. There really was a lot of empty space in a lot of Dark Project missions.

Death24701

11-16-2010, 03:08 PM

I owe it to TDS which introduced me to the series. So TDS it is, or I wouldn't be here.

DarknessFalls

11-16-2010, 03:18 PM

Did TDS introduce you to a 'series' you liked, or do you only like TDS; in which case it only introduced you to TDS, the 'game' and the first two games don't matter to you?

CoDEllite

11-16-2010, 04:31 PM

Deadly Shadows was a refined Thief experience to me. Perhaps it's best to compare my whole experience with Thief series to another popular video game series. Quake. I loved Quake 3 and it was the game that first got me into competitive online FPS games. And while I heard about the first 2 quake games, I never tried them because they are way too old to properly enjoy these days. While Quake 3 aged very well. Well , I actually tried the old Thief games after playing the crap out Deadly Shadows, but really couldn't get into them because they just didn't age well. I found the level design to be WAY too "all over the place", unnecesserily sprawling and confusing. AI was horrible in both games and while Metal Age did look better, Dark Project's graphics really grated on the eyes. So I would much better play Deadly Shadows any day. To this day it remains for me the essential Thief game.

DarknessFalls

11-16-2010, 04:53 PM

theBlackman

11-16-2010, 04:54 PM

"didn't age well" Is a copout. Face it you couldn't play the games because you lack the maturity and ability to develop skills and judgement.

If you don't (and that is YOU) get given all the automatic help and tools you fail at the game. And it is obvious from your posts (all of them) that you failed miserably and could not play a game that required skill from you and not skill or upgrades that you got as a freebie.

CoDEllite regardless of your troll-like babblings a "Gamer" you are not. Dilletante inept would be a more suitable lable.

Vae

11-16-2010, 05:00 PM

True indeed. The irony here is that both T1 and T2 have aged extremely well. In fact, in certain regards, they have never even been matched.

DarknessFalls

11-16-2010, 05:02 PM

Platinumoxicity

11-16-2010, 09:17 PM

CoDEllite, you destroyed all your credibility by trolling the taff out of the forum for weeks on end. What makes you think that people start taking you seriously now?

maddermadcat

11-16-2010, 10:00 PM

I loved TMA for the gameplay, but in TDP we got to explore so many interesting and mysterious areas, like the Bonehoard, Cragscleft, the Sealed section and the Lost city, while TMA has nothing half as spectacular.

Really?

How about Life of the Party? Or Trail of Blood? Precious Cargo? TMA had a very different atmosphere but there were some spectacular locations to explore.

TheWoodsieLord

11-16-2010, 11:33 PM

Really?

How about Life of the Party? Or Trail of Blood? Precious Cargo? TMA had a very different atmosphere but there were some spectacular locations to explore.

Life of the party was a good level.

The trail of blood I did not like. The way it shows the pagans is totally unfitting for the game and felt wrong. And monkeys? The trees in that level looked like giant drums. I think that the pagan areas in TDS felt much better.

And precious cargo just had us revisit a place where we already were in Dark project, and while it was nice to see it again, it was nothing new.

Heavy Rain

11-16-2010, 11:34 PM

Life of the Party was good, if only for introducing Thieves Highway. Trail of Blood was simply a rehash of Assassin's from T1 and Precious Cargo was just OKAY.

And precious cargo just had us revisit a place where we already were in Dark project, and while it was nice to see it again, it was nothing new.

Thats Kidnap level, revising the Lost City from T1. Of course, it robbed all the mystery and spookiness from Lost City and made it just another brightly lit and boring level.

jtr7

11-16-2010, 11:49 PM

Life of the party was a good level.

The trail of blood I did not like. The way it shows the pagans is totally unfitting for the game and felt wrong. And monkeys? The trees in that level looked like giant drums. I think that the pagan areas in TDS felt much better.

And precious cargo just had us revisit a place where we already were in Dark project, and while it was nice to see it again, it was nothing new.

What's wrong with the apebeasts, and why are you singling them out?
Old oak trees and sequoias are naturally hollow.
The TDS Pagan areas were all City locations, filled with City and Hammer architecture, and they were nowhere in their favored habitats in the woods.
TDS had us revisiting the same locations repeatedly, while the two versions of Karath Din were very different playthroughs and atmospheres, and it was Kidnap, not Precious Cargo.
Pagans are farmers and vegans living outside The City in the forests, so how was Beck o'the Wills unfitting?

Heavy Rain

11-17-2010, 01:03 AM

Pagans dwell in City ares in TDS as they are constantly at war against Hammers and are vying for dominance. Both these factions ask for your help to further their own cause and to spread their influence in the City. It makes sense if they are hiding in / encroaching City areas.

TDS had us revisiting the same locations repeatedly,

Like which? The one's where you obtain free moss arrows and speak to some of their members? They were optional..

TheWoodsieLord

11-17-2010, 02:00 AM

What's wrong with the apebeasts, and why are you singling them out?
Old oak trees and sequoias are naturally hollow.
The TDS Pagan areas were all City locations, filled with City and Hammer architecture, and they were nowhere in their favored habitats in the woods.
TDS had us revisiting the same locations repeatedly, while the two versions of Karath Din were very different playthroughs and atmospheres, and it was Kidnap, not Precious Cargo.
Pagans are farmers and vegans living outside The City in the forests, so how was Beck o'the Wills unfitting?

Yeah, I misnamed the level.

When you think "pagans living in forests in a dark world surrounding a steampunk-medieval giant metropolis", you just don't think "monkeys". Also, the climate of the city and the surrouding areas does not seem fit for monkeys . I found the wooden beasts guarding the Jacknall's paw to be far less atmosphere breaking.

The trees might be hollow, but not drum-shaped and completely round.

ToMegaTherion

11-17-2010, 02:23 AM

Edit: uh, I did a quick reply thinking Page 2 was as far as this had got, not noticing Page 3, so this is a bit out-of-place...

It seems uncouth to be so nasty to a fellow when he finally bothers to make a reasonable and constructive post :)

Some of the Dark Project missions are really a bit of a mess and far too big for what's actually in them. Now, clearly some people don't mind that, and some people even like that. I can just about tolerate it, but I have to say that I've never really wanted to play the Bonehoard, the Sword, the Haunted Cathedral, and the Lost City missions again. But let's not pretend it makes someone intellectually inferior or immature if they would prefer doing something to not really doing anything.

Viktoria

11-17-2010, 03:38 AM

The first two games are in the lead! No surprise, of course.
Hope EM are taking note. :)

acridrose

11-17-2010, 05:27 AM

Like which? The one's where you obtain free moss arrows and speak to some of their members? They were optional..

This is where you miss one of the most important criticisms of T: DS... they went for a "theme", but this ended up making all the locations very very similar. T:MA and its outstanding use of vibrant colours and themes was overwhelming sometimes to me as a player.. discovery and exploration had a visual 'exclamation' as you go from one zone (say the pagan grove) to another (into the maw and beyond) in a single mission.

Now this is what we call 'atmosphere' in shorter terms, and the first two games had this like no other.

maikaal

11-17-2010, 05:49 AM

I don't even know where to begin with you, I couldn't disagree more (you best be trollin'!)... WRONG level design? Have you even played TMA? Or did you start in the wrong place with TDS?

You won't believe this, but I am not the only one who loves T1 and thinks that T2 was a (total) letdown. As for T3, I am quite indifferent to it but thought that it was a good game on it's own when I played it 5 years ago. I would revisit it to see if my opinion has changed but I don't really have time for that - with the little free time I have I choose to (re)play only masterpieces, which T3 certainly isn't.

acridrose

11-17-2010, 06:19 AM

You won't believe this, but I am not the only one who loves T1 and thinks that T2 was a (total) letdown. As for T3, I am quite indifferent to it but thought that it was a good game on it's own when I played it 5 years ago. I would revisit it to see if my opinion has changed but I don't really have time for that - with the little free time I have I choose to (re)play only masterpieces, which T3 certainly isn't.

does it not baffle (edit: taffle) you why some people claim T2 is the greatest game ever made? Could you possibly have missed something?
Either way, each to their own, I suppose. For me, T2 = best game ever.

Hexfire

11-17-2010, 06:44 AM

Well, the metal age IS the greatest game ever made :whistle:

And X-COM UFO defense, of course! :D

maikaal

11-17-2010, 07:38 AM

does it not baffle (edit: taffle) you why some people claim T2 is the greatest game ever made?

Honestly I feel sorry for people who claim that, but nothing personal.

DarknessFalls

11-17-2010, 09:40 AM

Platinumoxicity

11-17-2010, 10:00 AM

There are many games that are equal in quality to Thief 2 even though they're all in different genres. For example I would say that C&C Red Alert 2 is a game as good as Thief 2. And also Quake 2. And X-Wing Alliance. Those are all very different games but I like them all equally much, in their own way. But the stealth genre is my favorite, and Thief 2 and Splinter Cell 3 get an extra boost in points from me.

Everything is subjective, and lists about greatest games of all time are very hard, or impossible to make, and they're almost 100% of the time corrupted by games that have nothing left but nostalgic value. For example, the #1 in IGN's top 100 is Super Mario Brothers, even though there are games released after it that are almost the exact same concept except improved. That already is enough proof that the rating is corrupted.

Rieknor

11-17-2010, 03:22 PM

Please dont make me choose. I just cant.

TMA and TDP are really good games, and both have awsome missions.
I really like TDS, in fact, i'm playing it once again, but i cant choose it becouse this is a Thief forum...

Z4BIJEJ

11-17-2010, 07:25 PM

Metal Age.

Not even a hard question

Heavy Rain

11-19-2010, 12:27 AM

This is where you miss one of the most important criticisms of T: DS... they went for a "theme", but this ended up making all the locations very very similar. T:MA and its outstanding use of vibrant colours and themes was overwhelming sometimes to me as a player.. discovery and exploration had a visual 'exclamation' as you go from one zone (say the pagan grove) to another (into the maw and beyond) in a single mission.

T2 had themeS? What does the subtitle suggest you? Pagan forest was the only thematically different area. Every other level was samey-same mansion, waehouse and even more gigantic warehouse converted into Soulforge "cathedral". Uh

Now this is what we call 'atmosphere' in shorter terms, and the first two games had this like no other.

T1 had it, T2 ruined it T3 restored it.

Firetaffer

11-19-2010, 12:43 AM

Tie between Thief 1 and 2, Thief 3 might be worse than 1 and 2, but it sure as hell beats SPLINTER CELL!

jtr7

11-19-2010, 01:17 AM

:D :thumb:

Platinumoxicity

11-19-2010, 05:29 AM

Splinter Cell 3 is a lot better than Deadly Shadows. SC2 and SC4 on the other hand... not so good. I'd say that TDS is better than those 2. Especially SC4. That game sucks. I haven't played the 5th one, you know, the one that's not Splinter Cell, but i bet it sucks too.

Please dont make me choose. I just cant.

TMA and TDP are really good games, and both have awsome missions.
I really like TDS, in fact, i'm playing it once again, but i cant choose it becouse this is a Thief forum...

But you have played all 3 haven't you? That makes you a valid voter. Only if you have played just two of them or just one of them will your vote be skewing the results because you don't really have an opinion. If you have played all 3 and you like TDS the most, vote for your favorite. :)

zombie32

11-19-2010, 04:58 PM

I never played TDP, but I have played Gold numerous times--can I vote?

Vae

11-19-2010, 05:01 PM

TDP and Gold would be considered the same here for voting purposes. If you haven't played the others, I would play them first for comparison.

CD Set

11-19-2010, 05:37 PM

TDP for sure. I guess it's partly from the nostalgia, but I guess I just found the story, theme, atmosphere and levels to be superior (or at least more interesting) compared to TMA. I never really cared for the mechanical enemies of Metal Age either, but on the other hand it did feature some of the more vast levels of the series and I loved exploring the City to a larger extent than was possible in TDP.

As for TDS, I actually thought it was fairly good. The controls were clunky and many of the design choices were questionable (I still forget there are Kurshok now). For what it's worth though, I thought the story was decent and I enjoyed it coming full circle.

zombie32

11-19-2010, 11:06 PM

I vote for my favorite, TMA. This was the first game I ever finished, but it wasn't easy. I got so mad at it I gave it away because I couldn't finish Soulforge. Afterwards I relented and bought another copy and was able to complete it.

Then, last week, I had time off work so I picked up TDS and began to play it for the first time in a year and a half. I got several levels into it, having just demolished the Clock Tower, and old memories began flooding back as to why I didn't care much for the game. First, it is too predictable, with respawning guards, respawning loot in the same old familiar places, over and over. A real one-trick pony. I find I have way too much loot and cannot spend any of it because I am maxed out on gear. And when you begin a level, the degree of difficulty simply increases the loot requirements and not much else. Loot is something I really don't need, which is a little odd in a game called "Thief." The game has lost it's way and behaves like a badly unbalanced washing machine in the spin-dry cycle, banging and smashing itself like it will come apart. You can easily outrun guards or just wall yourself until they give up the search. The game is just too easy.

So I amuse myself--if you can call it amusement-- by shooting pagan cornerstones with moss arrows and blowing up rust mites until there aren't anymore. Of course, even these respawn and can be dealt with again. And again. But I think the thing that bothers me the most is that the game has no surprises left after you've played it once. Now, TMA can still surprise me at times, like those patrolling spiders in Soulforge, or opening a door in Masks from a room to the hallway and discovering a guard is about to enter. Try getting into a shootout with one of those huge machines and there's a good chance you'll lose no matter how many times you've played.

Having said all this, I still have to give kudos to the TDS designers for cleverness. It seems logical that a thief would need a fence to sell his loot, and the ability for forge alliances with enemies deserves credit. However, it's no fun to beat a game that just rolls over and plays dead.

pall

11-20-2010, 05:47 AM

I voted for TMA, but TDP has special place in my heart, it was the game that made me thief fan, many warm memories of slepless nights sitting before computer and runing from undeads.

Platinumoxicity

11-20-2010, 06:29 AM

and the ability for forge alliances with enemies deserves credit.

I thought that was one of the dumbest things in TDS. Especially since both parties are religious fanatics, and Garrett has stolen numerous times from both, killed one party's deity, and almost caused an apocalypse. Of course people in general wouldn't know that this thief is THE Garrett, and most of the Pagans and Hammerites wouldn't know either. But I still find it hard to believe that either party would just trust a random criminal from the street. The way they let Garrett enter their restricted areas was especially ridiculous. They don't even let their own people into some areas.

And don't even get me started on the stupid mundane chores they had Garrett do in order to acquisition respect points. What is this, a videogame? Am I supposed to believe that this is how respect and trust works?

Those are my opinions about the system...

DarknessFalls

11-20-2010, 09:40 AM

TheWoodsieLord

11-20-2010, 11:14 AM

I thought that was one of the dumbest things in TDS. Especially since both parties are religious fanatics, and Garrett has stolen numerous times from both, killed one party's deity, and almost caused an apocalypse. Of course people in general wouldn't know that this thief is THE Garrett, and most of the Pagans and Hammerites wouldn't know either. But I still find it hard to believe that either party would just trust a random criminal from the street. The way they let Garrett enter their restricted areas was especially ridiculous. They don't even let their own people into some areas.

And don't even get me started on the stupid mundane chores they had Garrett do in order to acquisition respect points. What is this, a videogame? Am I supposed to believe that this is how respect and trust works?

Those are my opinions about the system...

I liked the idea of being able to ally with the Hammers or Pagans, but the way they chose to make you do it is stupid. Killing rust mites?? How do they know if one got killed, and if they collect rust mite corpses, how do they know it was I who killed them. The cornerstones were a bit stupid, but made more sense then that. The stuff with the sapling and the graveyard haunting was okay, though, liked that.

I would like to see a faction system that works like this - you can't ally yourself with both factions, and during "real" missions, you might recieve side-objectives that would improve your relationship with a faction (they wouldn't attack you in an open-world map, or they might send some help your way on the next mission - for example, the pagans may grow a vine that would help you climb to an otherwise inaccessible window and use it as an entry/exit point, and the hammers could provide a skeleton key that opens all the doors in a mansion.

Also, having real optional missions for factions might not be a bad idea.

jtr7

11-20-2010, 11:40 AM

zombie32

11-20-2010, 11:46 AM

In TMA Garrett had an alliance with Viktoria, but it was intelligently integrated into the plot and seemed natural because it was to their mutual advantage. Didn't have to shoot any pagan cornerstones there. Having Gamall as the villain made it possible for Garrett to become allies with everybody (except zombies). I used to play TDS without any alliances and it was somewhat more difficult but playable.

TheWoodsieLord

11-20-2010, 11:54 AM

I liked how Garrett allied with the Pagans and Hammerites in the previous titles, when it was part of the story, and it happened because of all the death and assurance of more and worse death from the sieges and massacres by enemy! In TDS, there was no threat when the offer of alliance was made. At that point, Garrett was the threat, and they slapped his wrist, and told him they'd do worse if he came around them again if he did odd tasks, with no mention of demanding the return of their artifacts at any point. Man, I'd sure like to know how the Keepers can persuade fanatics to do their bidding and forget the facts and forget to question apparent facts. Surely it's a Glyph of Persuasion? Actually, if it was a Glyph, then the affects on the minds would be undone, now.

I believe that the faction leaders were aware of the high influence of the Keepers (the "big guys" must have known that such an organisation exists), and as both Drept and Dyan seemed as pretty intelligent and reasonable people, they thought that they might as well use Garrett, as they can't harm him without making enemies of the Keepers.

The faction system was done poorly in TDS (but it had it's bright spots, like the graveyard side-quest), but despite the flaws, I think it to be good concept. I would have liked it more if it had more influence on the main storyline.

jtr7

11-20-2010, 11:55 AM

Enemies of the Keepers? What? The Keepers are unheard of, unknown, unseen, totally secret, and do not go after people unless they are threats to the Balance (which, as we've seen mroe than once, involves cataclysmic or apocalyptic levels of threat) or betray the Order's secrets. They do not give themselves or the Order away when they approach anyone. When Keeper Andrus approached the desperate Hammers and offered a solution for ending the Cataclysm, they did not give the Order's existence away, nor when they approached the Hand Mages. They have tricks for getting people to work with them without betraying the Order. The last night of Artemus's life, he went out into The City without his robes and ring, but the Keepers have managed to remain hidden from crystal balls, the prophetic visions and writings of outsiders, and the entire population.

No one knew that Gamall was the mutual enemy until long after the offers of alliances were made. It was backwards. Dyan knew of the Abomination from the Canal, and she knew that Viktoria had instructed her to keep Garrett alive, if possible, for some unknown task to come, but she never put two-and-two together. Drept knew of the Hag and that she spent most of her time in Auldale, but never knew she was a corrupt Keeper turned monster hoping to get a lot of Keepers following in her skin-stealing footsteps, to become the unhidden and immortal ruling class of The City.

Platinumoxicity

11-20-2010, 12:30 PM

In TDP Garrett had to ally with the Hammerites, because the Hammerites were the only people who had the weapons technology advanced enough to kill the Trickster, and who knew how to get to the Maw. Garrett was also the only one who could possibly accomplish such a dangerous task so the Hammerites had no one else to trust at that point. In TMA Garrett was in mortal danger from all sides, and his only clue led him to the Pagans who needed his help. Viktoria manipulated Garrett with her mysterious ways, and also forced Garrett to commit to their deal.

In TDS the danger to the world came from inside the keeper order, and was unheard of by anyone outside. There was no reason for either one of the factions, hammerites or pagans, to show any kind of respect towards Garrett. Garrett is an infidel and a criminal, so he couldn't hang out with the Hammerites. Garrett is a treacherous manfool so he couldn't hang out with the pagans. Garrett has no intentions of sharing so he couldn't hang out with the crime guilds. He was a traitor and a thief so he was distrusted by the keepers. Garrett is a peculiar little man in a shadow, with the whole world as his enemy, so the only entity that he could hang out with was a sociopathic, sadistic, talking little rock. :)

TheWoodsieLord

11-20-2010, 01:27 PM