Automated grenade throw

[Blade_hunter]

This isn't a suggestion, but a question about if DX 3 will feature automated grenade throw, this feature for the people that doesn't know what is it, is a feature that allow people to throw grenade while wielding a weapon in hand.
So it works by using a throw grenade button and it's seen in a couple of games actually.
Some older games didn't have a proper automated grenade throw since it was a special inventory who allowed it, when of course the game featured hand grenades / mines style weapons in those things
Now modern games have automated grenade throw that is used only for grenades and sometimes stones.

So does DX 3 features this ?
And does people wants this or not ? I know that some people doesn't wants that at all, but since it's a question that can be sensitive, it's good to know

[minus0ne]

I wouldn't be against it, provided it wouldn't make it more difficult to select the type of grenade you want. I think in Deus Ex it was a conscious design decision that you had to really equip it (so you could then either throw it or attach it to a surface), not a result of Deus Ex being an "older" game.

To be honest though, there was never a time in DX where I wanted to wield a weapon and throw a grenade at the same time (or at least it was easy enough to have a hotkey for a grenade), and it does sort of make sense from a realism point of view: how good would your throw be if your also shooting a weapon? And conversely, how good would your aim be if you're also throwing a grenade? :p (and considering a bad throw can result in your own demise or harm friendlies it makes sense to be careful).

[K^2]

As long as they let me assign weapons/items to hot keys, I don't care one way or another about it.

[Ashpolt]

Yeah, it's a lot less clumsy system than having to equip a grenade, then throw it, then switch back to your weapon. There'd be a problem with getting it to work with different grenade types, as minus0ne says, but it shouldn't be too hard to work around.

[Blade_hunter]

Normally we can't shoot at the same time except if we wield a single hand weapon, but the main advantage of this is in my opinion the fact you have your weapon directly ready to fire after the grenade being thrown.
For example you have a CS grenade and a baton in hand.
you throw your grenade and your baton is ready and popped up to stun people.

An other use of this function isn't to throw grenades, but adding/removing a rifle grenade style weapon into your main weapon if the weapon is able to receive that kind of stuff ...

Now the disadvantages are like people said the fact by switching between grenade type is harder since it also requires additional keys for it, the fact we have to aim the grenade when we fire it since it doesn't require the same aim as the other weapons in hand, and we can't give that much functions to the grenade itself or get acces to advanced functions in that way.
Except in the case if we can select it like an other weapon as well like K^2 seem to suggest and use the fire modes, throwing modes and such things.

To me a such function have to add something to the gameplay, because one of the spart part of DX and even its grenades is their double use (mine or thrown explosive) or in IW the fact hey could act as an impact / bouncy grenade

[Enderrr]

No no no no no.

[Blade_hunter]

That's good to have an opinion but could you explain it instead of just saying "no" only please ?

[Dead-Eye]

I'm for it so long as it doesn't take away from the game.

[Blade_hunter]

What do you mean by this ? Sorry but I'm confused :scratch:

[Enderrr]

That's good to have an opinion but could you explain it instead of just saying "no" only please ?

It's unrealistic, it comes from the same arcadey style of shooting that you see in Halo/Modern Warfare/Gears of War type games which has led to this game already getting a dodgy cover system/regenerating health mechanic, it will take up another button on the game pad (seeing as realistically most people will play this on consoles) for a control scheme that will already be likely fairly crowded and it would be messy considering the large number of grenades and explosives you had to chose from in previous games. It works fine in straightforward shooters but not this.

[Jerion]

I've been thinking about this- what some shooters do is let you assign an auto-throw hotkey to a standard explosive-type grenade and make you separately equip specialty/novelty grenades. If you could customize which grenade type is thrown from the hotkey (and thus which types you would have to separately equip) then that could be a working alternative to the DX1 "Equip everything" system.

I'm in agreement with K^2 on this subject.

[Blade_hunter]

Well it came from Team Fortress first (on its true dedicated form), also I don't remember that GOW features automated grenade throw, it seems we have to switch weapons to be able to fire grenades in that game :scratch:

Don't worry pha I will wait your own edit ;)

Yeah, I also hope René will give infos on this because, I have a little suspicion about this feature.

[ricwhite]

I've mastered the art of shooting with my right and throwing with my left simultaneously.

[Enderrr]

if there are multiple types or grenades or similar throwable weapons, there can be another key to cycle between them, like changing ammo types in DX1.

A single key to cycle through that many grenades would be sloppy. They did that in Project Snowblind which was a good game but it was messy.

[Blade_hunter]

Some other games uses that and haven't only with 2 sort of grenades.
also some older games featured a similar approach of the grenade tossing

Thief, Shadow warrior, Soldier of fortune 1, Unreal, but it passed through a separate inventory that wasn't dedicated to grenades.
It contained health kits, NVGs, lockpicks, Flares and of course flash grenades, mines depending what the different games offered as tools.

That's a bit the thing that makes me doubting about the fact that's only for straight shooters, because Thief uses a similar thing and it's not a straight shooter.

Some other games like Quake 2 and blood 2 offered a different process, the inventory activated tools / power ups and when it's a grenade / bomb it replaced the current weapon.
The problem is the fact when you want to back up to the previous weapon because in those games the only mean you have to back your weapon back is to press the key that pops out the weapon.

There is other process selection and even use I know but if I have to list all of them ...

That kind of thing (Automated grenade throw) is just useful for combat (Combat doesn't mean Gunfights) escaping, making ambushes or diversions.
For using advanced functions I think the classic selection should stay, I mean select the grenade that replaces our current weapon.

Or they can make the following.
when you select your grenade you can toss / use them and when you press the reload button it return back to your previous weapon.

EDIT: added essential tactics for the feature

[El_Bel]

A single key to cycle through that many grenades would be sloppy. They did that in Project Snowblind which was a good game but it was messy.

The reload key could be used to cycle grenades when you have them selected (if we have DX1 style grenades).

[Blade_hunter]

Beware, the automated grenade throw feature can't use the reload for that purpose unfortunately (since it's supposed to reload your current weapon) and this is what he talk about.
With classic DX selection it works as well as the change ammo control in shifter

So we need a key to throw them and one key for selecting them.
But in Deus Ex it can work as long as we can select as a stand alone weapon for other uses.
At least even if we are close to a wall it can have the exact same DX functions.
First the grenade is only thrown when we release the button
Second when we maintain the grenade throw button if we are close to a wall like in the original game the hand change its position and can set it up as a mine.
In that case when we release the button it places the mine instead of tossing a grenade.
If we press the fire button when we maintain the grenade button it cancels the throw and backs up to our weapon.

I don't think only about throwing explosives, it can be something else like traps, caltrops, flares and such things.

[Enderrr]

Because I'm going to be playing this on consoles I'm thinking of it in terms of an xbox 360 game pad. Bioshock 2 had the perfect control scheme for this (RT to shoot weapon, LT to activate selected biomod, with LB and RB bringing up radial menus for biomods and weapons respectively). Beyond that:
A-Action (Also enter cover when near suitable cover like in Mass Effect 2, seeing as we have to have a cover system...)
X-Reload (Hold down the reload button to change ammo type like in Perfect Dark maybe?)
B-Melee
Y-Jump

LS-crouch
RS-Ironsights/Scope

Then the D-Pad could be used as hotkeys for further assigning weapons (or items like bioelectric cells) for quick selection.

That seems like a perfect set up for me anyway. I don't think there's much room for a grenade button there (which is assigned to a shoulder button in most games)

[Blade_hunter]

You suppose they will follow that scheme and most of us doesn't know about it isn't it ? At least I don't know myself I had no info except when they used the pad for "cheating"
I think even in your configuration the belt is similar to weapons, so a "duplicate" of a similar control.

[Enderrr]

It's just what I think would work best, nothing more.