Most evil and sick Joker yet?: Possible Spoilers

[thejokethatkills]

What does everyone think of this Joker? I don't think I've ever seen the Joker this demented before in a video game or movie. The Dark Knight's Joker was also borderline pure evil, but at least his goal was slightly understandable: we all have feelings sometimes that there are no truly pure people.

This Joker however wants nothing but random slaughter and murder, not even to prove a point but just to have fun. All the people he murders, the way he kills them, what he says, and what his thugs say about him is truly sick. One thug mentions Joker ordered him to murder his sister, while Joker tells another thug that he once made a guys wife a paraplegic. Not to mention sending Dr. Young a picture of a dead baby (god only knows if he simply found it on the internet or did it himself), stating he enjoys slapping around Harley, and being responsible for the deaths of almost 200 people in the course of a single night.

I love what they did with this Joker, they held nothing back and it looks like he's only gonna get more and more twisted in the next game. Mark Hamill is the Joker to me. I grew up with him voicing this villain, but now I know not only can he do a comical and evil Joker, but also a relentless and terrifying personification of pure evil itself with no morals, values, or love for anybody or anything.

[Doat1]

Well for games i think this Joker is perfect and for movies you just cannot beat The Dark Knight Joker style. I do wish they would have more sadistic traps for batman and such i don't think there were enough joker involved traps.

[Matches Malone]

The Joker in the game is still fairly tame compared to some incarnations from various graphic novels. But as far as games go yes I would agree.

[thejokethatkills]

The Joker in the game is still fairly tame compared to some incarnations from various graphic novels. But as far as games go yes I would agree.

I agree, although I will say that some of the comics and novels go a little overboard. Some just show him an being a villain who slaughters children and tortures others for no specific plan in mind. I think it's important for the character to be evil, but also have a strategic and intelligent plan in mind. Some comics sacrifice his intelligence in favor of simply portraying him as a mass killing machine. So there's really so much that the Joker can do without it looking too unorganized and so forth. He does unspeakable things, but the core of his character is doing them in a ingenious way with a specific plan in mind.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

TDK joker was way worse! And in the comics He's definately worse...ever read The Killing Joke? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Killingjoke.JPG

[Doat1]

I actually was going to buy that comic but i bought Tower of Babel instead

[The Hylden]

Joker had a plan for why he was doing this in AA. It was to show Batman the world as he sees it, to make Batman admit that they are basically the same, by pushing him over the edge. He's tried that in various comics, by doing various crimes just as bad, or worse.

Besides the stuff in The Killing Joke, try reading The Man Who Laughs, a re-imagining of Joker's first appearance in Batman, issue #1. It opens in an abandoned warehouse with Gordon looking over dozens of badly decomposed corpses of men and women, all killed by various versions of the Joker's venom. It's pretty ghastly, but just like in AA, Joker was experimenting on them, like he did with the thugs trying to prefect the Titan venom.

In short: AA's Joker is just the usual Joker, heh.

[thejokethatkills]

Joker had a plan for why he was doing this in AA. It was to show Batman the world as he sees it, to make Batman admit that they are basically the same, by pushing him over the edge. He's tried that in various comics, by doing various crimes just as bad, or worse.

Besides the stuff in The Killing Joke, try reading The Man Who Laughs, a re-imagining of Joker's first appearance in Batman, issue #1. It opens in an abandoned warehouse with Gordon looking over dozens of badly decomposed corpses of men and women, all killed by various versions of the Joker's venom. It's pretty ghastly, but just like in AA, Joker was experimenting on them, like he did with the thugs trying to prefect the Titan venom.

In short: AA's Joker is just the usual Joker, heh.

Very good points all around. I've read most of the comics where Joker is featured in including the Killing Joke. I still think that Arkham Asylum beats them because of his overall goal and the total lack of any human side. The Killing Joke at least showed he had a human side in his origin, another reason why that particular comic has become so iconic. Even the Dark Knight's Joker had little hints of a tragic origin, where as this version had absolutely no sympathy for anybody or anything. For me it's not always what the Joker does, but also what he says that really defines him. His lines in this game are pretty sick, especially the one mentioning how he was getting "excited" just thinking of all the violence and wished Harley was with him.

[Matches Malone]

How did The Dark Knight Joker have a tragic origin? He was just lying both times making him even less tragic and just plain evil & angry.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

How did The Dark Knight Joker have a tragic origin? He was just lying both times making him even less tragic and just plain evil & angry.

Not to mention he's a man of his word...wait what?

[thejokethatkills]

How did The Dark Knight Joker have a tragic origin? He was just lying both times making him even less tragic and just plain evil & angry.

We have no clue how much of a lie each story was though is my main point. I never said he had a tragic origin for sure, but that he merely gave hints of one. He mentions having an abusive father, hating his father, and having a wife amongst his stories. Those are the parts of those stories that could be true, while the rest of the stories are most likley false. When I first saw the Dark Knight movie and he told those stories, I immediately got the image of him and his mother being beaten to a pulp and the image of a wife. The actual part of how he got his scars do not seem true, but I could defiantly believe that he had an abusive father and a wife. After all, this version of him was not the effects of a chemical bleach, so there must have been something else that made him so evil. That's really a key component to his whole character, you simply don't know what made him go over the edge or how much truth there are in his stories.

I never said that the stories were true, but they were still hints into a more tragic aspect to his character. His hatred for his father seemed pretty genuine so I could believe him being abused. Does that excuse him for all the horrible crimes he commits? Of course not, but it still shows a more human side than what was portrayed in the game. I'm simply speaking from my own perspective, but I think the Joker in the Dark Knight had a pretty terrible life prior to his reign of terror and I came up with that conclusion based off his stories. So, at least to me, those stories were hints into a deeper characterization of the Joker. It doesn't excuse him, but still shows a little more humanity as opposed to him just killing people with absolutely no hints at what caused his transformation into a cold blooded mass murdering villain.

[FearGasVictim09]

i think the most disturbed joker-portrayal was in brian azzarello's "joker". he cuts off the skin of a person or completely slaughters two old people in their bed and stuff like that.
but i have to agree that i think the joker needs to have some kind of comical character to it, which was lacking a bit in this comic.
it's cool if he shows how sick he can be, but it's even more jokerlike if he does it with some kind of "joke" ;)

[Matches Malone]

i think the most disturbed joker-portrayal was in brian azzarello's "joker". he cuts off the skin of a person or completely slaughters two old people in their bed and stuff like that.
but i have to agree that i think the joker needs to have some kind of comical character to it, which was lacking a bit in this comic.
it's cool if he shows how sick he can be, but it's even more jokerlike if he does it with some kind of "joke" ;)

He ripped off a guys skin and then threw him out on a stripper stage, then slapped a dollar bill on his ass. Get it? Not all jokes are funny, but that one is :)

[FearGasVictim09]

He ripped off a guys skin and then threw him out on a stripper stage, then slapped a dollar bill on his ass. Get it? Not all jokes are funny, but that one is :)

ok i forgot about the stripper stage and dollar bill part. :rolleyes: i stilllll...think that the joker should be a bit more...let's say clownish :p
but actually i also liked the azzarello one and the one in dark knight, so...different interpretations are always nice :)

[Matches Malone]

yeah those 2 are probably my favorite interpretations of the character, my other favorites are Lover's & Madmen and The Man who Laughs.

[Doat1]

The joker in the game still seems a bit too kiddy for me

[The Jedi Guardian]

ok i forgot about the stripper stage and dollar bill part. :rolleyes: i stilllll...think that the joker should be a bit more...let's say clownish :p
but actually i also liked the azzarello one and the one in dark knight, so...different interpretations are always nice :)


What about the part when Joker is fishing and he hasn't gotten anything yet, and the guy, Abner is threatened by killer croc, joker explains to him that he has only a bag of money, and that he has nothing left and etc. He ends up throwing up right there into the water and the joker's joke is Abner... You're scaring the fish.

[The Comedian]

If you really want a demented Joker read this. The Killing Joke was good this was great.

http://www.richiebits.com/comics/covers/Joker_graphic-novel.jpg

[thejokethatkills]

Yeah, that was one Hell of a novel. The part where he makes the bank teller get off to a picture of his own daughter was just plain wrong. He even sinks as low as raping someone, truly pure evil.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

Yeah, that was one Hell of a novel. The part where he makes the bank teller get off to a picture of his own daughter was just plain wrong. He even sinks as low as raping someone, truly pure evil.

The sad part is stuff like that happens in real life

[thejokethatkills]

The joker in the game still seems a bit too kiddy for me

That is who the Joker was originally intended to be. He does terrible things, kills people, but most of the creators agree that their has to be slightly comical edge to him. Anything that he says that makes people laugh in an evil way is basically what his character is all about. I think they nailed it perfectly in this game, he has some great lines: "Residents of Joker Asylum are expected to follow one simple rule, punishment for not following this rule is death. Want to hear the rule? It's a seeecret." I was laughing so hard when I heard that line.

[Doat1]

That is who the Joker was originally intended to be. He does terrible things, kills people, but most of the creators agree that their has to be slightly comical edge to him. Anything that he says that makes people laugh in an evil way is basically what his character is all about. I think they nailed it perfectly in this game, he has some great lines: "Residents of Joker Asylum are expected to follow one simple rule, punishment for not following this rule is death. Want to hear the rule? It's a seeecret." I was laughing so hard when I heard that line.

Yea things like that i loved in the game but i want him to push batman more, i think he gave batman a chance to kill him too soon i think they should have had that scene later on in the game. I love how toward the end of the game joker says, "So you wanna play hard ball huh?" Then pulls out a feather and tickles batman.

[thejokethatkills]

The sad part is stuff like that happens in real life

Yeah, I think that's why the Joker is often regarded as one the most evil villains, because his crimes often strike very, very close to reality. When he kills people with joy buzzers and venom for his flower, we just chalk it up to too outrageous to be realistic. When he kills people like skinning them or raping somebody, it leaves an even worse feeling in our stomachs because it's sadly very realistic. The portrayal of the Joker has been becoming more realistic nowadays, this game is basically the combination of a more realistic Joker and his more outrageous portrayal from back in the day.

[mwkcope]

He ripped off a guys skin and then threw him out on a stripper stage, then slapped a dollar bill on his ass. Get it? Not all jokes are funny, but that one is :)

I don't get it.:confused:

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

I don't get it.:confused:

Stripper =Girl/Guy who takes off clothes for money
Stripper Joker verson = Person Stripped of Skin

[Doat1]

Stripper =Girl/Guy who takes off clothes for money
Stripper Joker verson = Person Stripped of Skin

:lol:

[Matches Malone]

And you usually tip them with dollar bills, or more depending on what you're wanting. That's why Joker slapped the dollar bill on his ass, ol' Joker really knows how to seal a good joke.

[mwkcope]

O_o

[JawsFanJesse]

Mark Hamill = Best Joker Ever
of course

[mwkcope]

Mark Hamill = Best Joker Ever
of course

Friend request.:)

[Zombie-Gamer]

Mark Hamill = Best Joker Ever
of course

Wait till they get a load of me.:D

[Doat1]

Mark Hamill = Best Joker Ever
of course
Well the best game/cartoon Joker but i still say Joker from TDK is the best.

[mwkcope]

Well the best game/cartoon Joker but i still say Joker from TDK is the best.

I condemn you!!!:lol:

[Doat1]

I condemn you!!!:lol:

I get chills from that Joker every time i watch that movie literally.

[thejokethatkills]

I remember seeing the Joker for the first time in "Christmas with the Joker". I thought he was meant to be a fun villain based off that episode and then I saw "The Laughing Fish". That episode did creep me out back then; the whole atmosphere, music, and mood almost seemed taken straight out of an old 70's horror film. That episode made me realize who the Joker really was, an evil and sadistic psychopath. Since I was also only five at the time, I didn't understand what Batman meant by anti-venom, so I thought the people in that episode really died. That is why Mark Hamill will always be the Joker to me, he was the first one to creep the hell out of me even if I was only a kid at the time.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

I remember seeing the Joker for the first time in "Christmas with the Joker". I thought he was meant to be a fun villain based off that episode and then I saw "The Laughing Fish". That episode did creep me out back then; the whole atmosphere, music, and mood almost seemed taken straight out of an old 70's horror film. That episode made me realize who the Joker really was, an evil and sadistic psychopath. Since I was also only five at the time, I didn't understand what Batman meant by anti-venom, so I thought the people in that episode really died. That is why Mark Hamill will always be the Joker to me, he was the first one to creep the hell out of me even if I was only a kid at the time.

DUDE I HAD THE EXACT SAME EXPERIANCE! I was sooo freaked out at these parts
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[The Hylden]

That episode is a loose re-imagining of the first appearance by the Joker in Batman, issue #1, re-imagined in the comics in The Man Who Laughs (which I mentioned above). People did die in both versions. They had to add Batman administering anti-venom right off the bat in the cartoon to get away with putting it in a cartoon in the first place. :)

I first saw Joker in the Animated Series in Joker's Favor. He doesn't kill anyone in that, but he's menacing as hell. Poor Charlie!

1GBzXVCeA7Y

From the comics:

Issue #1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/pgson/150px-Joker2-1.jpg

From The Man Who Laughs graphic novel:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/pgson/batmanthemanwholaughsparu6.jpg

[thejokethatkills]

DUDE I HAD THE EXACT SAME EXPERIANCE! I was sooo freaked out at these parts

I think even creepier than the people being exposed to the laughing gas is Batman's sudden "Get this man to a hospital, NOW." line. Que the creepy music and murder attempt, brilliantly done. The whole shark sequence was also pretty damn creepy, considering it was a kid's show. There was quite a lot of threatened violence.

[The Hylden]

Actually, I first saw Joker in the animated series in that episode, Joker's Favor... I actually saw the character first in the Adam West show as a kid, then as Jack Nicholson's portrayal in Tim Burton's '89 Batman...

lol, speaking of that: loved Jack's Joker after he fries that mobster, Tony, with the hand buzzer, then has a conversation with him :p

Joker: "Your pals, they're not bad people... Maybe we aughta' give 'em a chance to think it over, hm? *shakes head* "No? Ok, well..."

*tightens dead Tony's tie*

Joker: "You are a viscous bastard, (last name: Rataliette?). I'm glad you're dead. HAHAHAHA! "I'M GLAD HE'S DEAD!! HAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! OH! I'm glad he's dead! HAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!"

lmao

[JawsFanJesse]

Well the best game/cartoon Joker but i still say Joker from TDK is the best.

I have to Disagree Hamill IS the Joker!

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

I think even creepier than the people being exposed to the laughing gas is Batman's sudden "Get this man to a hospital, NOW." line. Que the creepy music and murder attempt, brilliantly done. The whole shark sequence was also pretty damn creepy, considering it was a kid's show. There was quite a lot of threatened violence.
Definately! I got so scared because i didnt know what was going on! Yeah and when Joker hits bats with a crowbar and jumps off the cliff! :eek:

[Matches Malone]

That episode is a loose re-imagining of the first appearance by the Joker in Batman, issue #1, re-imagined in the comics in The Man Who Laughs (which I mentioned above). People did die in both versions. They had to add Batman administering anti-venom right off the bat in the cartoon to get away with putting it in a cartoon in the first place. :)


I'm pretty sure "The Laughing Fish" episode was based on the Detective Comic's issue "The Laughing Fish". :)

If you guys think Joker is evil in the animated series episode you should read the comic.

Hammil as Joker was never very scary to me, even as a child I remember thinking he was a "censored for children" Joker. Hammil is Luke Skywalker first for me. I thought his voice was a jillion times better in the game than it ever was in the animated series.

[Old_BenKenobi]

I'm with the majority. Hamill is Joker to me. He can cover the whole spectrum between goofy hilarity and lethal seriousness, and he can jump between the two on a whim which is really what makes him so great in the role. I like a little more comedic Joker than what was presented in TDK and other more serious incarnations. That way when hes pissed you really, really know hes pissed. Arkham Asylum Joker was perfect. Hamill just keeps getting better and better.

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

I'm with the majority. Hamill is Joker to me. He can cover the whole spectrum between goofy hilarity and lethal seriousness, and he can jump between the two on a whim which is really what makes him so great in the role. I like a little more comedic Joker than what was presented in TDK and other more serious incarnations. That way when hes pissed you really, really know hes pissed. Arkham Asylum Joker was perfect. Hamill just keeps getting better and better.

I have said this before and i'll say it again

89Batman= Comedic Joker
The Dark Knight = Serious/phyco Joker
Put them together and you get Mark Hamil Joker

[Matches Malone]

I think the spectrum looks like this, as far as performances go.

Comedic-----------------------------------------------------Mature
Romero--Hamill(TAS)--Nicholson--Hamill(AA)--Ledger

[The Hylden]

I'm pretty sure "The Laughing Fish" episode was based on the Detective Comic's issue "The Laughing Fish". :)

Yeah, true. The two stories are similar in that both have Joker threatening to kill important officials/businessmen at certain times each night and doing so before Batman, or anyone, can stop him.


Batman The Sequel Hunter:

I have said this before and i'll say it again

89Batman= Comedic Joker
The Dark Knight = Serious/phyco Joker
Put them together and you get Mark Hamil Joker

Matches Malone:

I think the spectrum looks like this, as far as performances go.

Comedic-----------------------------------------------------Mature
Romero--Hamill(TAS)--Nicholson--Hamill(AA)--Ledger

I'm inclined to agree. If you think Nicholson's Joker is all laughs, then you probably should watch it again. He's pretty lethal and menacing.

[The Comedian]

I'm inclined to agree. If you think Nicholson's Joker is all laughs, then you probably should watch it again. He's pretty lethal and menacing.

Indeed he has some deep dialogue which strikes as both comedic yet demented.

[Zombie-Gamer]

Indeed he has some deep dialogue which strikes as both comedic yet demented.

Like the whole " We're just like beauty and the beast, of course if anybody else calls you beast I'll rip their lungs out."

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

Nicholson's Joker wasnt all laughs, but he was a much more comedic character than Heath's and much less serious/mature

[thejokethatkills]

I'm pretty sure "The Laughing Fish" episode was based on the Detective Comic's issue "The Laughing Fish". :)

If you guys think Joker is evil in the animated series episode you should read the comic.

Hammil as Joker was never very scary to me, even as a child I remember thinking he was a "censored for children" Joker. Hammil is Luke Skywalker first for me. I thought his voice was a jillion times better in the game than it ever was in the animated series.

I have, I'm just saying Mark Hamill's Joker to me is unique because he was the first one to really creep me out.

[Old_BenKenobi]

I have said this before and i'll say it again

89Batman= Comedic Joker
The Dark Knight = Serious/phyco Joker
Put them together and you get Mark Hamil Joker

Nah,

Cesar Romero: Comedic Joker
Heath Ledger: Serious Joker
Hamill and Nicholson: Somewhere in the middle.

My reasoning? Cesar Romero's Joker was all laughs with no bite. The epitome of silliness. Nicholson and Hamill flipped between deadly serious and lighthearted silliness in their attitudes and behaviours. Nicholson did a lot of giggling, but he also did some messed up stuff like burning that one dude alive, mutilating and killing his girlfriend, poisoning random people in Gotham and eventually trying to kill all of Gotham. He was just as terroristic as Ledger's. The only difference is in attitude.

So if you wanna look at it in a chart:

X|C|S
C|1|2
S|3|4

With C meaning Comedic, S meaning Serious, the top row being personality and the side column being their actions, Cesar Romero would be a 1 (silly and harmless), Nicholson would be 3 (silly but dangerous) and Ledger would be a 4 (serious and dangerous). Hamill jumps between all four but hangs mostly in 3.

[Drazar]

I'm going to agree with Ben Kenobi, and the Jeff Bennet Joker falls between Hamill and Nicholson, but is alot closer to Romero by far.

Oh and in my opinion Grant Morrison writes the most evil and sick Joker. Serious House and RIP just show how awesome the Joker is. I also loved (keyword: loved) Brian Azzarello's and Miller's Crime Boss Joker who was all about this sick stuff that made _him_ and noone else laugh.

[JawsFanJesse]

That episode is a loose re-imagining of the first appearance by the Joker in Batman, issue #1, re-imagined in the comics in The Man Who Laughs (which I mentioned above). People did die in both versions. They had to add Batman administering anti-venom right off the bat in the cartoon to get away with putting it in a cartoon in the first place. :)

I first saw Joker in the Animated Series in Joker's Favor. He doesn't kill anyone in that, but he's menacing as hell. Poor Charlie!

1GBzXVCeA7Y




Hey I uploaded that video :D

[Old_BenKenobi]

Another awesome example of how Hamill's Joker jumps around completely. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld0uIhst3TA)

[Batman The Trailer Hunter]

Another awesome example of how Hamill's Joker jumps around completely. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld0uIhst3TA)

That was halirious

[Zombie-Gamer]

I want the Joker to speak at my funneral.

[mwkcope]

Another awesome example of how Hamill's Joker jumps around completely. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld0uIhst3TA)

ummm....wow,he actually killed someone not via Joker gas.:whistle:

[Old_BenKenobi]

ummm....wow,he actually killed someone not via Joker gas.:whistle:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6109/huntme.jpg

Batman saves him.

[mwkcope]

Batman saves him.

:mad2:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/963/popic.jpg

[St. Genesius]

poor jonny jonny frost. :hmm:

[freeze131]

:mad2:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/963/popic.jpg

Yeah in the animated series no one dies. Probably because the show would've become to dark for a children's programme.

But if you've watched Mask of the phantasm - A lot of people are murdered in that, and the fight scenes are a lot more vicious.

[Old_BenKenobi]

A big problem the producers of the animated series had to work around was the no killing thing. They could talk about it and show it off screen (like they did in Robin's Reckoning), but Joker wasn't allowed to directly kill anyone. I think its a testament to their creativity and skill that they made Joker seem like a psychotic killer without him killing anyone. Its one of those things that I didn't realize until after I watched the show. There is a reference to him killing (I think in Mad Love) where a newspaper says something like "Joker still loose, body count rises". Pretty sneaky.

[mwkcope]

Yeah in the animated series no one dies. Probably because the show would've become to dark for a children's programme.

But if you've watched Mask of the phantasm - A lot of people are murdered in that, and the fight scenes are a lot more vicious.

Yeah,I watched that,it was pretty brutal.And I got an easter egg in my post.:lol:

[Zur-en-ah]

Good topic and nice some observations.

Gotta admit, I'm not too clued up on the animated incarnations of the Joker, so was very impressed when I heard Mark Hammil in Arkham Asylum ... can kinda see what all the fuss is about now.

Also, think everyone would generally agree that Heath Ledger's Joker in DKR was pretty damn good too - arguably the best yet. The pure psychosis and determination he portrayed was spot on.

But that's what probably makes the Joker the best villain ever -- there are so many different takes on him yet he' still the iconic, chilling madman that we all know and love.

The best Jokers IMO:

The Killing Joke ... tragic, sick, sympathetic, symetrical. Its arguably the best Joker story ever told.

Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on A Serious Earth ... arguably the most terrifying take on the Joker

Lovers & Madmen ... modern and clever "update" on the Joker origin story.

Batman RIP ... nobody knows just how complex the relationship between Joker & Batman is better than Grant Morrison.

... I haven't read Brian Azzallo's one yet, but after reading some of the posts here, it's now high on my list