Escape; first time

[windwalker]

When you keep silent too long, something grows up inside you. It feeds on unspilled words, unmade actions, unrepresented ideals. They entwine, they combine, they merge to form an unsteady mixture, ready to burst in a sudden blossom when triggered.

Who could have thought that I had such a mixture inside me?

I shall thank Victoria for giving me this chance. I have been able to give out the things I kept so long... so long that it became real crowded inside.

I have been cheated. When I gave the eye to Constantine and he revealed his true identity, I understood that I was tricked into a trap, and the worst of kind of trap that can be. But this was not the action that woke up what was asleep. I have been cheated before, and I have my own ways of taking revenge so this did not matter at all.

I was not paid for my services. Unfortunately this happens more than one would think, so much that you even get used to it. It was getting hard to find a good fence, anyway, so this too, was not the reason.

But when she touched me with her vines, when she pecked out my eye with her talons... This was stealing from me. From my greatest treasure, from my untouchable sanctuary.

Eye for an eye was not enough for me.

I have been called the Master Thief. The ethereal. The unseen. The ghost. Rumors tell some of the guardians in cragscleft has been sent to asylum, because they couldn't explain the disappearance of all the valuable items in their complex, including the prisoners. Even poor lord Bafford drifted to the edge of suicide. Until now, I had not even casted my shadow over anyone else as I did my job.

But this time, the unspilled words, unmade actions and unrepresented ideals inside me exploded in a fairy rain, turning me into a killing machine, striking from shadows. One by one I took out ratmen, bugmen, frogs, fire elementals, spiders... anything that moved below Constantine's mansion. I laughed and screamed curses as I killed them. Their screams filled the tunnels echoing; foretelling others the fate that waited for them. I was covered in blood of my victims, yet I charged with overhead swings towards the ratman that I lured into the dark tunnels. It didn't even had time to turn back and run. Another one came, hearing his death woe, which stumbled upon the corpse of his dead brother, only to be struck down by my sword from above.

Cutting down all the legs of a spider as it frustrated me with twitching death moves, I moved down the corridor to enter a hall where I took out two bugmen with a gas mine, then pinned two frog-like lizards with my broadheads. It all ended in a few seconds. I quick-checked to see what was above that wooden raft. As I was returning to the tunnel I came from, I cut off the bugmen's heads.

I was about to leave the mansion when two ratmen, two bugmen and two froglizards charged towards me in the corridor. They should have been surprised that I was not running away, but towards them. Soon as they moved one more step closer, they met mine carefully placed mines. When the dust settled, only one confused and wounded bugman was standing, and it launched a nest of flying insects towards me. Ignoring their thousand vicious bites I launched myself forward, cutting the beast from above, below, sliding past him to stab his back, then spinning around myself for a low cut, then rising my sword suddenly for an upwards slash, and finishing him with an overhead.

Dripping blood, I slid down the rope arrow from the very balcony that I entered the place first time.

Eye for an eye was not enough for me. Imagining Constantine's face when he came back home and saw half of his army slaughtered was reward enough for me. The red flower of death which blossomed when Victoria took my eye was already wilting when I decided to visit hammerites one more time.

(I couldn't keep myself. Last night I finished the escape level, and still have the excitement over me. In a rage I killed everything in the level, with only some accidents here and there that made me reload. The level was really complex though. For the first time I ran into a slaughterfest, and actually enjoyed it. I will try to ghost it tonight, but I don't think it's possible. I hope this is right place to post this.)

[glyph07]

:eek: I'm speechless. It's like in Spiderman 3 when u have Spiderman alter ego...Here u wrote (very nicely I must say) about a Garrett whose beliefes and actions are completely the antithesis of those characterising the true Master Thief (considering also that this alter ago of yours is definetely more talkative than the real Garrett).

A disturbed Garett alter ago, who shadows the real one, until he wants to take his place and finish him off...or maybe he wants just to win over him, ruining his plan, becuase the real Garrett did something wrong to him in the past.

Oh my! I'm scared at the very idea of this! :D

[Pieter888]

wow:eek:

Respect :thumb:

EDIT: this kinda motivates me to do the same thing *must... resist...*

[windwalker]

Thank you, friends. I have never played in this manner before, at most I blackjacked some guards. But I don't feel tainted, as I supposed I was going to. I did this on expert, so it was not a merry slaughterfest. I discovered the ratmen are actually quite good swordsman, if you give them the chance. If they see you, and you begin a normal swordfight, they give good blocks/counterattacks. Thus I lured them into dark places where they lost track of me if I turned around the corner, and charged them with overhead swings when they switched to search mode. This hurts them badly and stuns them for a few precious seconds where you can deal the few remaining killing blows. Bugmen, on the other hand, are really dangerous at expert. They just take a ton of damage (if you do not backstab them that is) so I used my gas equipment on them. I felt nice when I could hit a rapidly hopping frog with a broadhead arrow. Then I noticed I may be able to do it, I could kill everything. The idea suddenly burst within me; the very "carnage" inside me awakened. The rest was a good "tactical killing game" or "assasin" in a magical environment. Till I hit the first floor of the mansion. In a corridor, two ratmen, two bugmen and two frogs all appeared at the same time. (they saw me from a small window at the end of the corridor, when I was inside the room with that window.) I blocked them at the door, to fight them one by one. I felt good to have stacked those fruits. Yet they weren't enough, and I died after a long time. (damn frogs) After reload, first I launched some mines in an angular manner into the corridor. (they react to the sounds mines make when they fall to ground) Then I watied till the mines were set, then I charged them. It was good, thrilling. The last bugmen put up a good fight, but he was down before me. The rest of the mansion was easier, as they were loners which felt prey to my stealth killing.

On the next level, where I visit the hammerite temple, I didn't even try this, I switched back to my "stealth" mode.

[Hypevosa]

The psychological effect of having an eye literally torn from your head would probably have a stronger effect on someone than what we are shown Garrett's was in all honesty. The reaction Windwalker had is not too far off base. Garrett rolled it off far too easily in my opinion, but having a traumatized protagonist rock in the fetal position in a corner for an hour wouldn't make for good gameplay (though I guess we aren't told how much time he is lying there trapped by the vines, he may have had a few hours to his own thoughts to collect himself).

This is one of the reasons I still say that Thief is an RPG, we are roleplaying Garrett, and we all have a slightly different view of who he is.

[Pieter888]

yes, it can be quite rewarding to "let loose some gas" sometimes :cool:

[glyph07]

RPG? Hm...I actually talked about an alter-ego in relation to windwalker experience...In my opinion he gave life to a 2nd character by itself, with proper reasons for acting and reacting as it does. I don't think Thief palyed this way is true to Garrett's true nature and maybe, yes, the fact that we, as player, can vastly kill, is inconsistent with the spirit of the game.

[windwalker]

Until I did it, I have always been a loyal stealth player, as this was what the whole good thing was about. And I am still a stealth player at that, when we are talking about thief games. I believe we all have experienced that time, when we leave the keyboard to a watching friend, and he tries to kill the cook. I even know people who try to shoot doctors when they play half-life. Someone even said "they are the easiest to kill!"

But when it comes to Garret... He is something special, I would like to believe in this. Not in the way Conan the Barbarian or Spider-man being special, but sort of a "Ta'veren" if you have read the Wheel of Time series, someone who can bend the flow of time/fate/history. Sometimes willingly, sometimes unwillingly. Such people have an important role in the history, and they are generally "known." Thief universe reflects this to a degree, here and there we hear about Garret the Master thief. Keepers believe he was the "most promising acolyte", and "his skills were unmatched."

But when we look and see what makes him "that" special, what is the power that gives him this potential, we fall into an unclear and abstract answer. We know he is stealthy, and extremely good at that, almost semi-magical when it comes to disappearing in shadows. We know he is free-willed, unbound by the confining rules and doctrines or methods or beliefs all around him. We know he has a strong soul, persistant, consistent and unique. Beyond these? He is just a normal guy. Normal strength, normal speed, normal toughness, nothing extraordinary.

So his stealth is the most tangible aspect that makes him Garret, but there is this vague power which cannot be measured or compared or taken away.

By doing what I did (in my very own thief universe, of course) I have unwillingly added another thing into this list, and I notice it now since you taffers mentioned it. This experience made "my Garret" an avenger. When things are played nicely, my Garret does everything in his way: without any soul noticing him. This could have been the same: I could have tried to "Escape" from Constantine's mansion, without being seen. I could have made him pay for his deception on me in my won way, as I did before to the lord who sent his assassins for me. I wasn't paid for, but I have learnt extremely important things, valuable information from the experience, which couldn't be measured by any amount of gold. So I could have sneaked away... But I was going to feel defeated, even though the reasons I told above. But my eye? My eye was taken. This is something beyond anything that has ever happened to me. The exact repay would be taking the eyes of Victoria and Constantine, but since Garret is a normal guy, this is not quite possible. Instead of his eye, I took his minions. All of them. I left his house clear of any danger. A six year old homeless girl could have found safe shelter in that house that night. Heck, she could even find some fruits, the most delicious ones she had probably ever seen. Or I could give a party in his house. I could call the hammers and they would have made short work in "purifying" this place with the flame of the builder. (If they weren't... busy at the time, lets say.)

So what happens now? Some keepers know what Garret did. There was this particular experience where Garret slaughtered many minions of his nemesis. Garret defeated a full fortress of unnatural and dangerous beasts. This went into the records. Into the history. Added as another "potential", still vague because it's uncleat how he achieved this. But he now has another trait. He has shown something he hid carefully until now, he has removed the silken glove over his iron fist.

[Psychomorph]

(I couldn't keep myself. Last night I finished the escape level, and still have the excitement over me. In a rage I killed everything in the level, with only some accidents here and there that made me reload. The level was really complex though. For the first time I ran into a slaughterfest, and actually enjoyed it. I will try to ghost it tonight, but I don't think it's possible. I hope this is right place to post this.)
I always claimed that I never killed in Thief, but this is my dark secret, when I played that mission I wanted revenge. Even if it is just a game, it managed to affect me emotionally enough, that I felt I wanted revenge and slew several ratmen in the process (not just for the kick, it was when I needed to pass by patrolling ratmen and I had no patience for once, I attacked from the shadow from behind, but also had an open sword fight a couple of times, the rage made it a victory).

It was in the Hammerite novice temple that I was disgusted by the beasts, as it looked like they slew and ate the Hammerites (bones and human remains were on the cooking place). I hated them and thus was disgusted by the Pagans as such, it was in Thief 2 that I learned to see Pagans rather as peaceful people (maybe because they were the victim that time around), it were really Constantine's beasts of chaos, that had an evil taste.
When Garrett met Viktoria, I had the same dislike for her as Garrett himself in the game.

Another thing I always thought about when playing this mission was; What happened to the guards that had their duty in Constantine's mansion the first time I was there? Were they slewed (and eaten) just like the Hammerites in the novice temple, because their service wasn't needed anymore? Or were they perhaps beasts turned into human shape to fool me the first time I was in that mansion? I never observed any suspicious behaviour from the guards back then, so I assume they were humans and their destiny remains unclear.

[Pieter888]

It's funny how good story-telling can change the way the player plays a game

[glyph07]

It's funny how good story-telling can change the way the player plays a game

Well, u actually change the way u play a game becuase u have given the choice...without that, u might enjoy a story telling and still having to act the same way. :D

Then again, wishing to get crazy in a game and doing exactly the opposite of what the character is supposed to do, is undoubtedly liberating but not really faithful to your favourite hero nature.

[windwalker]

I have been thinking about this. I am a stealth player, when it comes to thief, I know that for sure. The thrill of slipping past enemy guards is unmatched. What happened last night was not because of I didn't want a stealth pay. It was because I was so pissed off. I was so amateur in my first going, because I didn't even know how to swing a sword. I didn't know that I couldn't hit spiders with overhead swings unless they were on higher ground. And I have never felt Garret was so clumsy before. This, combined with the fact that I was playing on expert, suddenly turned my intention into a real challange. Frogs were the most mobile and small opponents that I had to shoot until now, with the clumsy bow system Garret has. These actions contained their own challanges, and required a different aproach which I have never tried before. Thus my hatred was fueled. I could have easily run out of trouble, I could have left behind many living creatures. But I killed them all. I KILLED THEM ALL AND I AM PROUD I DID SO! Because they took my eye. MY EYE. And fed my eye onto this pesky little artifact. My eye.

No matter how "cool" or "calm" my Garret is, he just wouldn't get enough satisfaction by replacing it with a fake one and killing the trickster. Some of the stain would still be left, a wound that couldn't have healed perfectly. Thus I killed them. I am still feeling the anger and the rage when I remember it all.

I wouldn't have killed baffords goons, or the undead in the bonehoard, even the fire elementals in the lost city. But this was something else... entirely... If you harm Garret, you pay for it ten times back. Because his heart is clouded and his balance is lost.

[acridrose]

When you keep silent too long, something grows up inside you. It feeds on unspilled words, unmade actions, unrepresented ideals. They entwine, they combine, they merge to form an unsteady mixture, ready to burst in a sudden blossom when triggered.


This is excellently written :)
After the climactic scene preceding Escape, I don't blame you... returning to the tranquil shadows is hard enough, but the fact that the level is covered with Constantine's minions, it makes me want to start using that dusty sword I realise I carry.

Great post!

[glyph07]

I KILLED THEM ALL AND I AM PROUD I DID SO! Because they took my eye. MY EYE. And fed my eye onto this pesky little artifact. My eye.

No matter how "cool" or "calm" my Garret is, he just wouldn't get enough satisfaction by replacing it with a fake one and killing the trickster. Some of the stain would still be left, a wound that couldn't have healed perfectly. Thus I killed them. I am still feeling the anger and the rage when I remember it all.

I honestly think u're taking your player sensitivity a bit too far. Maybe if Garrett were still a young boy with hormones running fast, he would have behaved as u suggested...being the man he actually is, I doubt very much so. There are revenges that don't require blood spilled and let me tell u, there is nothing more pleasurable than remaining in control of your actions. A human being true strength is when u've got the right to harm, your victim expects this of you...and u don't...u simply let go and wait for a more dignified and subtle revenge.

[Namdrol]

I disagree, sometimes cold rage can burn hotter than wild anger, and the beauty of this game is we all bring ourselves to Garrett and play as we see fit
In fact this is what puts this game above and beyond most others, the fact that there are so many ways in which to play it.
I think windwalkers post was superb in the passion and style it showed.
If we still had the "Order of the Scribe", he'd be the clear winner in my eyes.

[glyph07]

I disagree, sometimes cold rage can burn hotter than wild anger, and the beauty of this game is we all bring ourselves to Garrett and play as we see fit. In fact this is what puts this game above and beyond most others, the fact that there are so many ways in which to play it.

Many?! You kill, u avoid, u hurt/interact with tools but not killing...it's not really special, several games let u the same choices, actually it's the very nature of the gaming. Thief is incredibly unique in the way these options are combined etc...plus a lot of other incredible aspects, but truly, I don't recall any cut scene where Garrett mentioned how much killing would satisfy him. If he never said it, then, maybe this is not his way, even if the game gives u the choice.

I think windwalkers post was superb in the passion and style it showed.
If we still had the "Order of the Scribe", he'd be the clear winner in my eyes.

I complimented Windwalkers for his writing skill already, I simply stated that the man who talked was not Garrett.

[Namdrol]

whatever

[glyph07]

Xfect

[windwalker]

Friends;

It's clear that Garret is quite the extraordinary guy. His story and style captivates us, and makes us play the game in his boots, which is the stealthy master thief. The thing that surprised me about this event was that, even though I was so accustomed and felt good within this role, I didn't feel bad after this incident. I felt bad and defeated when a guard saw me and got alerted, often reloading the game directly. Yet this time my feelings were still in tone with what I was doing.

Now I know the Garret himself probably wouldn't do this, at least not to this extreme. We do not know his ideas about killing thoroughly, but we know he believes a true professional does not leave a mess behind. Yet we see him shooting an arrow into a hammer guards neck in the opening video.

So from within this cloud, the very thief community have drawn out their own Garret; the ghost, the professional who can do everything with stealth, which is true. But when I play the game, Garret is not alone. I am there too, someone who likes him, sometimes adores him, and aproves his decisions. But at this particular event our ideals conflicted. I was the silent one, always aproving him. I had buried my own beliefs below his'. When they took his-my eye, he was under the weight of many years of his lifestyle. If he went into a rage, he would have felt as if he betrayed himself. He would feel regret. Thus I helped him a little bit, I took control. I was still using stealth and tactics and wits and my equipment; what he did best. But this time I was using my sword instead of blackjack. I was using my mines instead of flashbangs. I was pecking out the eye from the castle of Constantine.

Garret has no rules, that's what I would like to believe. He is not a sociopath but he is not your helpfull neighbour either. He didn't join the Hammers, he didn't fell into love with Pagans, he didn't even stay with Keepers. So why would he confine himself with the rules and doctrines he creates for himself?

I am not talking about the gameplay here. Slaying them was fun, but nowhere as fun as ghosting through a level. If I wanted to enjoy killing things, I would have played Serious Sam. What I am talking about is the combination that is me and Garret. As the "me" changes with every player, but Garret stays the same, this means we create a range of Garrets who are more-or-less on the same path but sometimes take a few sidesteps differentiating them from others every now and then. One likes to blakjack and clear the guards before doing what he/she wants, the other ghosts, one other likes to steal full loot etc. This particular experience I had and sharing it was just to show what mixture we (me and Garret) had that night, so please do not feel like I am trying to load a different meaning to Garret for everyone.

And thanks for your kind words on my writing; unfortunately my English is not as good as I would like it to be. When I try to express things, I sometimes can reach %95 accuracy but the %5 different in this feeling is sometimes very important when writing about "deep issues." I even caused a misunderstanding the day before in very this forum :D

[acridrose]

Friends;

It's clear that Garret is quite the extraordinary guy.


I know I'm sad for posting this, but ya know it's Garrett with two "T"s :o

They stand for "Thieving Taffer" (just kidding).

[Psychomorph]

Garrett = Gracefully Athletic Resplendently Rebellious Eloquent Thieving Taffer

[acridrose]

Garrett = Gracefully Athletic Resplendently Rebellious Eloquent Thieving Taffer

Exactly! :scratch:
Now no one can forget it :D

[jtr7]

Windwalker's take on it is fine, and it's honest. The games do encourage killing the Maw Beasts, just not humans or creatures labeled as non-hostiles, especially if the player injures a BugBeast, in a mission where Con's army is just beginning to overrun The City, establishing a base within the Hammer Temple. Vengeance is something Garrett understands, when his life has been threatened personally, but even though he still doesn't seek to spill the blood, he will hamstring an operation, make the threat lose face, and let them know they made a mistake--if they are human. Garrett didn't follow the Keepers out of Con's mansion, and he didn't have to do what they told him to. He equated going into the Maw for the first time as not wasting the Keepers' rescue of himself. Garrett didn't go in to get information to use another day, though that's what ended up happening. When Viktoria saw him again in TMA, she assumed rightly that he had vengeance on the brain, even though it was secondary to surviving the encounter.





And since the spelling of "Garrett" was brought up, by us unpaid copy-editors, "Viktoria" is officially with a "K", unless the character spelling it has only heard vague rumors of her, from her work under Warden Raputo. :p

[esme]

when you play, you are Garrett, any rules or moral code Garrett has are the ones you choose

however the game does tend to reward random acts of kindness, such as taking the dead sheriff truart and putting him in the open grave next to his family

so when Viktoria took my eye at the behest of the Trickster, I did not respond by killing every living being in sight, it wasn't their fault, they didn't really have much choice about their existence, I coldly and methodically worked my revenge on the being that caused me the pain, not Viktoria but the Trickster himself

after all Viktoria didn't have any choice either, if she hadn't ripped my eye out what would have happened to her ?

the game is all about focus for me, pick the target, plan, execute, repeat until the goal is achieved

[glyph07]

when you play, you are Garrett, any rules or moral code Garrett has are the ones you choose (...) the game is all about focus for me, pick the target, plan, execute, repeat until the goal is achieved

:thumb:

I'd add up that one thing is not being able to find other ways to execute Garrett's plan but killing a guard (as Windwalker more than correctly pointed out when we see Garrett shooting an arrow into a hammer guards neck in the opening video) and a totally another thing is hearing Garrett's voice saying things such as: "Ignoring their thousand vicious bites I launched myself forward, cutting the beast from above, below, sliding past him to stab his back, then spinning around myself for a low cut, then rising my sword suddenly for an upwards slash, and finishing him with an overhead. Dripping blood, I slid down the rope arrow from the very balcony that I entered the place first time" (which I reapet is tale very engaging...just not told by our Master Thief).

[windwalker]

Heh he of course he wouldn't say these things, nor he should have. Just... this particular time "I" didn't feel bad, contrary to many other times where I was caught by the guards and tried to swordfight them just for the sake of it and killed them and reloaded the game. It was something Garrett or I wouldn't normaly do, but I did. Not becaue I had to, because I wanted to. I can't explain this, or put this into the way of Garret's thinking, hence the story was written in a form much different than Garrett's or mine. This was a mixture, a flower destined to wither down quickly, as it really did.

I reloaded the level last night, and tried to ghost it but found it close to impossible. It is possible to create diversions by using noisemakers or throwing objects, but that's not ghosting. Has anyone been able to do it?

Note: I feel compelled to have a series of a different Garrett, a little bit more deadly than he should be. I will throw the lord to his burricks, for example, but will not slaughter the burricks in bonehoard. Than write it as fiction. Just... I don't have the time to play all the missions again.

[glyph07]

I understood what u meant, truly, I just wanted to clarify my position...just in case...:flowers: